mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2014 15:55:26 GMT -5
You've been quite reasonable. The problem is, he's still texting and whining for more, MPL. That's the part that isn't right. You don't need to jump at his command, hon. Really, you don't. You've been more than reasonable with allowing him to visit. Now, you need to set up a schedule and insist he follow it. He has no right to demand anything at this point.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 9, 2014 15:56:53 GMT -5
Saying no to kayaking tonight is not going to make a judge go "OMG you're keeping him from his son give this man custody!". You have every right to set a schedule as far as when he can visit your son, you have custody.
Ideally you should have hammered out a schedule when you divorced but you didn't. That doesn't prevent you from setting up one now. The majority of divorced parents have a set visitation schedule. Which don't tend to involve random texts during the day and in the middle of the night asking to go kayaking and other last minute trips. That doesn't make you a bad person or mean you are "keeping him away from his son". To him it may seem like that but as everyone else has pointed out if he has money to do all these things then he can pony up the $35 to go regularly to the visitation center. He doesn't want to do that then he needs to stick to your schedule since you have to be available to supervise.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 15:59:22 GMT -5
The thing is, no I don't want to meet him tonight, but older son has a merit badge meeting tonight and is spending the night at his Dad's, I don't have to be home to make dinner. Tomorrow and Friday we're baling hay, and older son needs to get ready to leave for camp early Saturday morning, so we'll be packing.
It actually IS the best time to let him hang out with our son because he won't ask again for a few days.
I know I need a schedule. I had settled on Wednesday evening and Saturday afternoon, but I was not sure on the times. What's good. 2 hours for one and 4 for the other?
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jul 9, 2014 16:01:12 GMT -5
It may be the best time, circumstances wise, but if you aren't feeling well, then that's too bad for him. Life isn't fair. I'd let those amounts of time be your MAX and if the visit ends naturally earlier, oh well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 16:01:16 GMT -5
You've been quite reasonable. The problem is, he's still texting and whining for more, MPL. That's the part that isn't right. You don't need to jump at his command, hon. Really, you don't. You've been more than reasonable with allowing him to visit. Now, you need to set up a schedule and insist he follow it. He has no right to demand anything at this point. I'm not sure he's texting and whining for "more" he's really only got all the visits he has had because he texted asking. If he never asked, I'd never text him and offer.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2014 16:02:24 GMT -5
You've been quite reasonable. The problem is, he's still texting and whining for more, MPL. That's the part that isn't right. You don't need to jump at his command, hon. Really, you don't. You've been more than reasonable with allowing him to visit. Now, you need to set up a schedule and insist he follow it. He has no right to demand anything at this point. I'm not sure he's texting and whining for "more" he's really only got all the visits he has had because he texted asking. If he never asked, I'd never text him and offer. That's why we're telling you to set up a schedule and stick to it, MPL.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jul 9, 2014 16:04:40 GMT -5
Yes, everyone is right - it's not about the details of his requests - it's about YOUR response and setting boundaries. Great job of detailing all visits so far! Plenty reasonable. So what if you start limiting them? What's he going to do? Whine to the court? Let him. Let HIM take legal action so that your lawyer can respond and set a legal visitation schedule.
It really needs to be addressed by a judge anyway because your lawyer needs to emphasize the logistics of YOU being the "supervising" party for these visits given the circumstances leading to your divorce. I don't think that's been duly thought out by the court but instead was just a "quick fix" at the time.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2014 16:07:20 GMT -5
The thing is, no I don't want to meet him tonight, but older son has a merit badge meeting tonight and is spending the night at his Dad's, I don't have to be home to make dinner. Tomorrow and Friday we're baling hay, and older son needs to get ready to leave for camp early Saturday morning, so we'll be packing. It actually IS the best time to let him hang out with our son because he won't ask again for a few days. I know I need a schedule. I had settled on Wednesday evening and Saturday afternoon, but I was not sure on the times. What's good. 2 hours for one and 4 for the other? That sounds quite fair, MPL. Set that up and stick to it. As for tonight, you have a headache. Sometimes, even when you're a special snowflake, life just ain't fair. Ex DH is just going to have to put on his big boy panties and deal with it.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jul 9, 2014 16:07:39 GMT -5
And again, kudos to you for being the reasonable adult here and trying to work with him, but bottom line is: he screwed up. He hasn't nearly done enough to prove himself to be a responsible parent. He misses his son? Whah, whah. Should've been a real parent to begin with. Sorry. That just sounds so reminiscient of something I went through years ago.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jul 9, 2014 16:08:11 GMT -5
And just to reiterate-mpl you have my respect and admiration for how you are handling everything.
Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Jul 9, 2014 16:12:47 GMT -5
Yep, agree with Raeoflyte. A 14 page thread is a lot to take in and it probably seems like you're being bombarded and sometimes yelled at (not intentional by anyone).
So, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and look back at my darkest time during my divorce, court dates, and custody battles and I honestly can't say that this flood of information would have been helpful or not but I DO know that there are so many of us who have been through this type of thing already and we are more than willing to try to help someone else to get through it better than we (speaking for myself) did.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 9, 2014 16:14:24 GMT -5
This is probably one of the longest threads on YM where darn near every poster has agreed with each other. That alone should tell you something MPL, YM-ers never agree with each other!
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jul 9, 2014 16:16:36 GMT -5
This is probably one of the longest threads on YM where darn near every poster has agreed with each other. That alone should tell you something MPL, YM-ers never agree with each other!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2014 16:16:50 GMT -5
Yep, agree with Raeoflyte. A 14 page thread is a lot to take in and it probably seems like you're being bombarded and sometimes yelled at (not intentional by anyone). So, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and look back at my darkest time during my divorce, court dates, and custody battles and I honestly can't say that this flood of information would have been helpful or not but I DO know that there are so many of us who have been through this type of thing already and we are more than willing to try to help someone else to get through it better than we (speaking for myself) did. I know I went through something very similar and it was horrible. When I finally took control, oddly enough the ex suddenly wasn't near as obsessed with "seeing his children" because he couldn't demand times that suited him and he didn't get to command my time to supervise the visits. That seemed to take the urgency right out of it.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 9, 2014 16:39:04 GMT -5
I know I need a schedule. I had settled on Wednesday evening and Saturday afternoon, but I was not sure on the times. What's good. 2 hours for one and 4 for the other? Do it. Tell him the schedule and stick to it. I don't even know if you need Saturday to be a 4 hour visit. A 2 hour visit is probably fine & seems to be mostly what you have been doing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 17:11:14 GMT -5
HE HAS MONEY! If he wants to see his son, he can pay the effing $35 for supervised visitation! Sorry for yelling. But it's not your problem! The decree calls for "reasonable" supervised visitation, correct? Reasonable is a very squishy word... Once every 2 years is probably unreasonable. But even parents who qualify for UNsupervised visitation sometimes only get the every-other-weekend-and-two-weeks-in-summer deal. You're not being unreasonable if X goes a week or more without seeing him. she has to pay half of the fee for visitation and she's saying she doesn't have it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 17:42:16 GMT -5
I guess I don't get what I'm supposed to do here. According to the divorce decree, I need to give him reasonable parenting time which is to be supervised and a lot of people said that one weeknight and one weekend afternoon were not out of line? I document every single visit so I can give it to a judge if he says I'm keeping his son from him. Do you really want to commit to tying up hours of every single Saturday supervising your ex's visits with his son? I wouldn't. I would make the weekend day alternating weeks so I'd have some weekends free for just me and both my children or whatever else I might want to do. Like mid said, when "reasonable time" is specified in most divorces or custody cases, it's often every other weekend and alternating holidays. One of the sad facts of divorce is that the non-custodial parent doesn't get to be with their child all the times they want to, like they did when they lived in the home with them. I really think you need to come up with a schedule like we've been urging you to. Then you won't have to worry about him bombarding you with texts about missing his son and wanting to see him "today". If he does it anyway....... if both your boys are with you and you know they're safe, turn the darn phone off. Or will your phone let you adjust ringtone settings for individual contacts? If it will, put him on silent, no vibrate so your phone won't buzz or whatever when he texts you. I LOVE that feature on my phone! I put people on silent when they're working my nerves, but I don't want to turn my phone off. When I really don't feel like being bothered, my phone won't alert me for anybody but my kids.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 17:51:24 GMT -5
I guess I don't get what I'm supposed to do here. According to the divorce decree, I need to give him reasonable parenting time which is to be supervised and a lot of people said that one weeknight and one weekend afternoon were not out of line? I document every single visit so I can give it to a judge if he says I'm keeping his son from him. Do you really want to commit to tying up hours of every single Saturday supervising your ex's visits with his son? I wouldn't. I would make the weekend day alternating weeks so I'd have some weekends free for just me and both my children or whatever else I might want to do. Like mid said, when "reasonable time" is specified in most divorces or custody cases, it's often every other weekend and alternating holidays. One of the sad facts of divorce is that the non-custodial parent doesn't get to be with their child all the times they want to, like they did when they lived in the home with them. I really think you need to come up with a schedule like we've been urging you to. Then you won't have to worry about him bombarding you with texts about missing his son and wanting to see him "today". If he does it anyway....... if both your boys are with you and you know they're safe, turn the darn phone off. Or will your phone let you adjust ringtone settings for individual contacts? If it will, put him on silent, no vibrate so your phone won't buzz or whatever when he texts you. I LOVE that feature on my phone! I put people on silent when they're working my nerves, but I don't want to turn my phone off. When I really don't feel like being bothered, my phone won't alert me for anybody but my kids. but in most cases the non-custodial parent would have the kid all weekend....2 hours every other weekend might not be considered reasonable. MPL - I know you said $200 a month wouldn't change anything for you but you could use that money to pay for a neutral supervisor.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 17:56:10 GMT -5
Do you really want to commit to tying up hours of every single Saturday supervising your ex's visits with his son? I wouldn't. I would make the weekend day alternating weeks so I'd have some weekends free for just me and both my children or whatever else I might want to do. Like mid said, when "reasonable time" is specified in most divorces or custody cases, it's often every other weekend and alternating holidays. One of the sad facts of divorce is that the non-custodial parent doesn't get to be with their child all the times they want to, like they did when they lived in the home with them. I really think you need to come up with a schedule like we've been urging you to. Then you won't have to worry about him bombarding you with texts about missing his son and wanting to see him "today". If he does it anyway....... if both your boys are with you and you know they're safe, turn the darn phone off. Or will your phone let you adjust ringtone settings for individual contacts? If it will, put him on silent, no vibrate so your phone won't buzz or whatever when he texts you. I LOVE that feature on my phone! I put people on silent when they're working my nerves, but I don't want to turn my phone off. When I really don't feel like being bothered, my phone won't alert me for anybody but my kids. but in most cases the non-custodial parent would have the kid all weekend....2 hours every other weekend might not be considered reasonable. MPL - I know you said $200 a month wouldn't change anything for you but you could use that money to pay for a neutral supervisor. Like just somebody I know? That might be nice. I'm at the lake but I stayed in the lodge. I'm just watching to make sure they dont tip. www.dropbox.com/s/0oz6is1fjsk07ez/20140709_174744.jpg
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:08:00 GMT -5
And MPL, I understand wanting your child to be around his father and spent time with him. I understand because I've been there, just a different situation. At the same time though, you have enough of your own stuff to deal with. Please stop letting your ex's problems be YOUR problem. You're willing to let him see his son, within the guidelines set by the court.......... a reasonable amount of supervised time. You've taken on the role of supervising the visits and you get to set the dates and times you're available to supervise, as long as you're reasonable. A court appointed supervisor wouldn't be available whenever he wanted them to, they'd have a schedule with certain dates and times available and he'd have to work with that.
You're doing your part. Allow him to do his part. You don't have to do any more or figure out anything else or listen to him complain. The rest of it is on him. Don't make his problems your problems.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:08:53 GMT -5
Do you really want to commit to tying up hours of every single Saturday supervising your ex's visits with his son? I wouldn't. I would make the weekend day alternating weeks so I'd have some weekends free for just me and both my children or whatever else I might want to do. Like mid said, when "reasonable time" is specified in most divorces or custody cases, it's often every other weekend and alternating holidays. One of the sad facts of divorce is that the non-custodial parent doesn't get to be with their child all the times they want to, like they did when they lived in the home with them. I really think you need to come up with a schedule like we've been urging you to. Then you won't have to worry about him bombarding you with texts about missing his son and wanting to see him "today". If he does it anyway....... if both your boys are with you and you know they're safe, turn the darn phone off. Or will your phone let you adjust ringtone settings for individual contacts? If it will, put him on silent, no vibrate so your phone won't buzz or whatever when he texts you. I LOVE that feature on my phone! I put people on silent when they're working my nerves, but I don't want to turn my phone off. When I really don't feel like being bothered, my phone won't alert me for anybody but my kids. but in most cases the non-custodial parent would have the kid all weekend....2 hours every other weekend might not be considered reasonable. MPL - I know you said $200 a month wouldn't change anything for you but you could use that money to pay for a neutral supervisor. His visits have to be supervised. Who's going to supervise a weekend visit? ETA: and I said every other weekend for the weekend day, not the time during the week. Nor did I say to limit the weekend time to 2 hours.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:18:21 GMT -5
but in most cases the non-custodial parent would have the kid all weekend....2 hours every other weekend might not be considered reasonable. MPL - I know you said $200 a month wouldn't change anything for you but you could use that money to pay for a neutral supervisor. His visits have to be supervised. Who's going to supervise a weekend visit? ETA: and I said every other weekend for the weekend day, not the time during the week. Nor did I say to limit the weekend time to 2 hours. I didn't say for him to have a weekend visit. my point is that standard visitation is every other weekend and one night a week. 2 hours on a weekend day every other weekend (which is what someone else suggested as reasonable) will probably not cut it as reasonable.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:20:26 GMT -5
I think she said 4 hours on Saturday. I think every other is reasonable got her to provide. If he wants every, he should pay for it. She's going above and beyond.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:23:43 GMT -5
I think she said 4 hours on Saturday. I think every other is reasonable got her to provide. If he wants every, he should pay for it. She's going above and beyond. and this is a lesson to everyone to spell out exactly what visitation is rather than leaving it up to everyone to interpret what 'reasonable' means
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:27:56 GMT -5
Four hours does sound like a lot for Saturday, I dont know...maybe make that max like someone said. Some days might be fishing or a carnival others not so much going on.
I told him we had to leave in an hour today. Hopefully that goes well. I have more trouble with the kid not wanting to leave than anything.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:29:28 GMT -5
I also don't know why dad gets all the fun outings either. He can go shoe shopping on a Saturday, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:31:14 GMT -5
I think she said 4 hours on Saturday. I think every other is reasonable got her to provide. If he wants every, he should pay for it. She's going above and beyond. and this is a lesson to everyone to spell out exactly what visitation is rather than leaving it up to everyone to interpret what 'reasonable' means I had no clue that what we put in was going to be the end. I assumed there would be a guardian ad litum, that a parenting plan would be required and I thought supervised visitation was something that the court set up.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:40:33 GMT -5
I didn't say for him to have a weekend visit. my point is that standard visitation is every other weekend and one night a week. 2 hours on a weekend day every other weekend (which is what someone else suggested as reasonable) will probably not cut it as reasonable. Reasonable is NOT the same when you have to have supervised visitation.
MPL, believe me, I do NOT want to bang on you, I am full of admiration for how you are handling things. But this is why we encouraged you to see a lawyer to set out visitation.
And at the risk of appearing to be a total bitch, there is something else I have hesitated to say to you for a while, but now I'm going to go for it. You say your ex is obsessed with your son, and frankly, you've proven it (assault charges on his brother when he accident knocked your son over).
But, you need to be prepared for the fact that he is obsessed with your son for NOW. If at some point he has another kid, my guess is that he will transfer that obsession onto the new kid. He'll probably claim that you "ruined" his relationship with your kid, and the new kid is a "clean slate", if that makes any sense, and he may opt to "start over".
Your ex is mentally ill, and unstable, and I'm guessing that he's not done with surprising you with his behavior. For all you know, if his new friend, or (Gd forbid) her daughter has his kid, he could very well drop your kid like a hot potato. You need to be prepared for that eventuality. For all you know he'll meet somebody else on the internet tomorrow and get HER pregnant. Your ex is totally unstable and his future behavior is totally unpredictable.
I know that in some ways that would make your life easier, but in some ways, that would make your life harder. But you need to remember that when you're dealing with the wild card that he is, anything can happen.
Hugs to you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 18:54:24 GMT -5
First of all, reasonable visitation does not mean everytime he wants to. The list you posted seems plenty. The usual may be a weekday night and a weekend every other weekend. But this is not a usual case. If the "supervised" stays on the decree, i doubt he would be getting a whole weekend. Wednesdays and saturdays sound reasonable. Maybe alternate saturday sunday so you are not stuck every saturday. Best of luck in court. I hope you get the outcome you want and whatever is best for you and your son.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 19:10:18 GMT -5
First of all, reasonable visitation does not mean everytime he wants to. The list you posted seems plenty. The usual may be a weekday night and a weekend every other weekend. But this is not a usual case. If the "supervised" stays on the decree, i doubt he would be getting a whole weekend. Wednesdays and saturdays sound reasonable. Maybe alternate saturday sunday so you are not stuck every saturday. Best of luck in court. I hope you get the outcome you want and whatever is best for you and your son. But that list is pretty much all the times he requested. I've never once called up and said "hey you want to have a visitation today?" The problem with it like this is it's hard for me to plan. Anyhow, the visit was only an hour (plus a few minutes because DS didn't really want to leave), and ex texted me on the drive home thanking me for letting him take him out on the kayak without me. I figured he couldn't really go anywhere or do anything out there and there were plenty of life guards around. However, I came home to THIS! Anyone want to unload hay with me tonight? I have lots of beer in the fridge.
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