Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 5:44:56 GMT -5
Well, we can definitely rule out "ugly". That was a compliment, btw.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 6, 2014 7:30:34 GMT -5
I wonder if any of you realize that so much of advice given here is really catered to the poster and what he/she would find attractive. Not to mention that you pretty much told him to mostly change his criteria and reinvent himself. There is nothing wrong with Phonenix. Some people find more matches while dating. Some not. Changing your criteria so much and changing yourself might get you a date, but is it really going to get you a partner that you can be happy with for life? Well it all depends on his goals. No one on here said he wasn't a great person, but if what he really wants is to meet a great person & get married, then he might have to work at it. He can either hope that the right girl will eventually fall in his lap or he can work on improving himself so that is more likely to happen. There are certain things that pretty universally attractive - confidence is one of them (as long as it doesn't reach the point of arrogance) & happiness is another. Not too mention that having confidence & happiness make for a better/happier life overall because you like yourself more. I don't see that trying to gain confidence is changing yourself, but rather improving yourself & we could all use improvement in some way or another. Part of dating, especially online dating is selling yourself & that can be hard to do. You may be the most fantastic guy in the universe, but if your profile contains a bunch of poorly-lit selfies while making a peace sign & all you wrote is a bunch of negative stuff about not wanting women with drama, then you aren't going to attract many women & certainly won't attract the type of women you want. Phoenix doesn't need to change who he is at the core because he is a great guy & the right women will love that, he just may need to work on confidence & first impressions. As far as criteria, he needs to recognize deal-breakers vs what he thinks is ideal. It is totally fine to have deal-breakers & it is totally fine if kids is one of them. But everything you want shouldn't be a deal-breaker because some stuff you will find isn't as important as you thought it was when you meet the right person. I don't know how anyone can build any confidence after reading 9 pages of the things he is doing wrong. Telling him to change what he says, what he does, what he is looking for in a person, cautioning him what to wear, how to plan dates, etc etc etc anyway, clearly, I am the only one who doesn't think there is anything wrong with the guy, he just hasn't found the person who clicks with him. And while I never said she will fall into his lap, I just don't see who all those "changes" will get to him to happiness. I could be wrong, I've been wrong before. But for now, I am staying out of this.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 6, 2014 7:32:41 GMT -5
The others are right - you're cute, so that isn't the problem.
Since you don't have any close friends in the area, think about how you can get some trusted advice on interpersonal interactions. Do you have any "life coach" type people in your area? I know it sounds hokey and maybe a little awkward to ask a stranger for advice on how you interact, but a stranger might be the perfect person in this case. If you pick the right "coach" (and I'd probably lean toward life coach or general coach rather than the cheesy, hokey "dating" coaches), that person can be direct, honest and incredibly helpful. Even if you have close friends, there are things that friends struggle with telling each other out of fear of hurting feelings.
Who knows, maybe some interpersonal coaching would help with the situation with the supervisor at work, too?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 7:36:54 GMT -5
Lena, he came here saying what he is doing is not getting the results he desires. That signifies something needs to change. Without knowing the exact situation... Ie without actually debriefing someone who has been on a date with him, all anyone can do is make suggestions based on their own experiences to see if anything resonates.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 6, 2014 7:43:36 GMT -5
anyway, clearly, I am the only one who doesn't think there is anything wrong with the guy, he just hasn't found the person who clicks with him. You could be right about just not finding the right person to click. Could be that his online profile, his criteria and/or the population he's mining aren't a good fit for what would click with him, so it's unlikely to result in a match.
It was interesting once to help someone I knew well with his online dating profile. IMHO, he had two major issues and neither of them were fixed by changing him.
1) Given what type of woman he wanted to attract, his online profile wasn't set up to demonstrate things that those women would find attractive. So he needed to think about what his desired audience wanted and make sure he showed that he had at least some of those things.
2) He wasn't honest in his self-assessment or realistic about who/what he could expect to attract. His list of "requirements" was unrealistic for anybody but George Clooney and he, apparently, felt he was George Clooney. When I asked him gently what type of guy a woman who had all the things on his list would want, he started to realize he might not meet all of her list of requirements and got more realistic about who he was and what he could reasonably attract/expect.
Not saying these are things Phoenix is doing, just giving examples of how Phoenix could be a great guy and not need changing at all, but still benefit from help with his online dating stuff.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jun 6, 2014 7:59:38 GMT -5
Be who you are. If you are jeans and t shirts then that is who you are. If you are Calvin Klein suits then own that. You will meet someone in the process of living an active life.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 8:01:17 GMT -5
Where does he live? I'm not seeing any looks issues myself. I have a DD who will be a "catch" someday!
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Jun 6, 2014 8:21:53 GMT -5
Phoenix - you're a cute guy, so I don't think it's a "5 trying to land a 9" type of problem. I'm your age (28, almost 29), but I was never good at dating and DH was my only boyfriend. We worked together for 8 hours every day for more than a month before he asked me out. I think because it took me that long to come out of my shell - I'm not good at small talk either. I would start, like others have said, with a short coffee or other date that is less than an hour. And have something planned that you "need" to go do after an hour if conversation starts to lag, but can "cancel" if it is going well. Have some thoughts on different topics, but don't seem too forced! Don't read off of note cards or anything like that. Just a mental list - Compliment her on her outfit, ask about her work/does she enjoy it, how's your coffee?/this place is neat/do you see that guy over there singing along to the radio?/I love this song/etc. You're not talking rocket science on the first date.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 6, 2014 8:25:14 GMT -5
Phoenix: Lena's comments have me thinking about what we've all written so far. I don't think anyone wants you to do a complete 180 and change your entire personality. From what I know about you from these boards you seem to be an intelligent, well spoken guy. The pics prove you are attractive looking as well. The bulk of the advice seems to be on increasing your confidence level and improving your communication skills.
Some of your posts break my heart because I kind of get the impression that you are lonely. Relax, enjoy life, join some clubs, start talking to people.
I talk to everyone. Literally, everyone. My UPS guy that comes to work- his name is Brad, he is married, we both love flea markets and yard sales. I ran into him at the big 100 miles yard sale in Red Wing a couple of years ago. I told him about a huge thing in Nebraska every year. He likes the Vikings, etc. The guy who usually helps me at the post office (Jeff) is curious about selling things on eBay and is fascinated by my plans to declutter and simplify my life. He thinks he and his wife should do that. The list goes on and on.
I'm normally an introvert and would rather lock myself in my house and never see anyone. When I was in sales I would come home on Friday mentally and emotionally drained from being "On" all week long and it would take me the entire weekend to recuperate. I decided that was crazy and to change that about myself. Just start talking. Practice your small talk every chance you get. The cashier at the grocery store, your mailman, the lady at the drycleaners, etc. Everyday try to have a conversation with someone new. After a while it will start to become much easier and feel more natural. Take some baby steps. Break out of your comfort zone. You mentioned the guys you work with are all "baby boomers"- um you do realize that means they might have daughters your age right? Loosen up your criteria and go on some dates with women who previously didn't fit into your "college degree, no moms, career path" standards. Worst thing that happens is you don't get a second date.
Appearance- you are a good looking guy. You wear normal clothes and that's fine. If you decide you want to change up your style some- than call the local big department store in your city (Macy, Nordstroms, whatever) and ask if they have a personal shopper or stylist you can make an appointment with. I've started to do that. When I am shopping and they ask if they can help me rather than mumble "No thanks" and wander off I tell them "yes, as a matter of fact I'm looking for......" They always find things that are better than I would have found on my own on the clearance rack.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 8:26:24 GMT -5
But you NEED to talk. The doctor I dated, the first time we met, I did all the talking because he didnt say anything and I got nervous. Turns out he was tired from mowing his lawn but how the hell would I have known that? Because he was a doctor, I gave him another chance and we dated for several years but if he'd been a dust bunny, I wouldn't have and it would have been my loss. You're not a dust bunny, don't act like one.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 8:28:48 GMT -5
If you were 38, I'd say let the no mom thing go but you're young. The PLUS for you is you're not paying any child support!
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on Jun 6, 2014 8:32:20 GMT -5
I didn't read the whole thread, and I might be totally off base here, as I don't have the emotional investment in posters like so many of you do.
However, whether I have the right poster or not, when I see phoenix, I think arrogant ass.
My apologies to you Phoenix, if I have the wrong guy.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 6, 2014 8:34:22 GMT -5
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jun 6, 2014 9:05:24 GMT -5
I didn't read the whole thread, and I might be totally off base here, as I don't have the emotional investment in posters like so many of you do. However, whether I have the right poster or not, when I see phoenix, I think arrogant ass. My apologies to you Phoenix, if I have the wrong guy. You have the wrong guy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 9:09:36 GMT -5
"However, whether I have the right poster or not, when I see phoenix, I think arrogant ass. "
Well I wouldn't put it in those exact words but I think somewhat similar too. While he is definitely cute, something in his looks seem like a player to me. Nobody may agree with me but his pictures definitely does not say "nice guy" to me (only going off of the pictures). Couple that with not talking during a date and maybe not making eye contact, I would think he just wasn't interested...
As far as personality, I don't think he is arrogant at all. He needs to have more confidence like others said. But there are times I think he is judgmental about situations that he has zero experience in...
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jun 6, 2014 9:09:36 GMT -5
Okay, I have to agree with everyone else. You are hot. That is NOT the problem. Phoenix84 I think my DH could've written this thread before he met me. He was lonely and in an unfamiliar state and didn't know anyone other than a bunch of other soldiers who were all in the same boat. He was younger than you (21) but wanted to settle down and marry and have a family. Coming from his background he had a good job and iit was high time he got a girl and started a happy little domestic life. So his friend signed him up for online dating. I on the other hand, lost a bet with my friend and ended up having to put my profile on the site and 'give it a real try' for 6 months. I did NOT want a serious relationship. I was dating for FUN. I did not list my degree or profession in my profile because i got dropped like a hot potato many times once the words 'chemical engineer' came flying about. He saw my profile and messaged me. I was in Hawaii celebrating my birthday, so didn't get it until i got back. In the interm he turned 22 and made it through my age filter (I'm older than DH) His profile was terrible, he put up awful pics of himself, had misspelled words, and was generally pretty goofy, but I decided since it was 'just for fun' I'd go out with him anyway. I was SHOCKED when he showed up. He was HOT! Dressed terribly, but still hot. He's very much the 'strong and silent' type and was so nervous he didn't even talk on the way to dinner. Awkward! Finally I got him talking at dinner about his family, and it was just so sweet how much he cared about them that i really got to 'see' some of him and not just the outside. He called me the next day, and showed up at my house the next saturday (can't remember what we did for a 2nd date).... which turned into him showing up at my house on fridays and leaving monday morning, which turned into me realizing i didn't want to date anyone else anyway. We're married now. He's still quiet, unless we're alone or with his family, then he won't shut up! He dresses better; because I buy his clothes. He still spells things badly, but were working on that (he has some form of dyslexia). His lack of a degree doesn't bother me because he's well-read and we can have intelectual conversations. I always say he picked me out because he wouldn't give up on me.
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on Jun 6, 2014 9:14:48 GMT -5
" You have the wrong guy. "
I very well might, but, I have been around long enough to recognize the posters, and have a response to the name.
So maybe that reaction is valid, for me. If so, maybe that is how he is coming across in real life to others as well? Or I truly am mixing him up with someone else.
When I get the time, I'll go back and re-read the thread.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 6, 2014 9:20:12 GMT -5
" You have the wrong guy. "
I very well might, but, I have been around long enough to recognize the posters, and have a response to the name.
So maybe that reaction is valid, for me. If so, maybe that is how he is coming across in real life to others as well? Or I truly am mixing him up with someone else.
When I get the time, I'll go back and re-read the thread.
There was another poster posting as Phoenix. That one is still posting but has changed names. That may be who you're thinking of.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 6, 2014 9:29:05 GMT -5
I going to say that Phoenix looks nothing like what I pictured. The guy seemed so down on himself that I was expecting something totally different. As others have said, looks is not the problem here. I don't think he necessary needs to change his wardrobe or anything else either. He definitely should just be who he is but it appears he has social issues. I am thinking that maybe he should join something like toastmasters just get to more comfortable speaking and interacting with other people. Toastmasters isn't just for people who want to be a more effective public speaker it can help people who are just socially awkward become more comfortable and engaging with others. Also, as with any other group, it is an opportunity to meet some new people.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jun 6, 2014 9:32:31 GMT -5
I talk to everyone. Literally, everyone. My UPS guy that comes to work- his name is Brad, he is married, we both love flea markets and yard sales. I ran into him at the big 100 miles yard sale in Red Wing a couple of years ago. I told him about a huge thing in Nebraska every year. He likes the Vikings, etc. The guy who usually helps me at the post office (Jeff) is curious about selling things on eBay and is fascinated by my plans to declutter and simplify my life. He thinks he and his wife should do that. The list goes on and on.
I'm normally an introvert and would rather lock myself in my house and never see anyone. When I was in sales I would come home on Friday mentally and emotionally drained from being "On" all week long and it would take me the entire weekend to recuperate. I decided that was crazy and to change that about myself. Just start talking. Practice your small talk every chance you get. The cashier at the grocery store, your mailman, the lady at the drycleaners, etc. Everyday try to have a conversation with someone new. After a while it will start to become much easier and feel more natural.
I've just gotten everything on this thread read, and this one is one of the things I wanted to suggest. I'm normally super shy and quiet, until I get to know you, not outgoing at all. When I first started working in the library, some of the board members expressed concern that I was too quiet. Now, after dealing with the public for a while, I am much more comfortable chatting with anyone that stops in. I needed to be forced to do it, over and over, to realize it really was no big deal, and that even if it seems to come naturally to some people, it is more likely that they just learned the skill by doing. Is there some kind of volunteer activity you could get involved with that would force you to interact with a large number of people to get some of that "talking" experience? I'm thinking of something like manning a table for sign-ins at race/fundraising event, etc. You could practice chatting with strangers without worry, you are never likely to see them again. Depending on the activity, you might also get to know other volunteers without the pressure of a date scenario. Once you have gotten to know them a bit, you might ease into considering dating. I've been married forever, it seems like, so it's hard to remember dating, but I did not date much, exactly 3 guys. The first guy and I met at an awards dinner; we were seated next to one another and hit it off, chatted the entire time. He was obviously very comfortable with himself and put me at ease, too (painfully shy, remember). At the end of the night, I made a giant leap and asked him to my prom (we'd had a great time talking, and I was desperate - I knew I'd never see him again otherwise, and going to an all girls school makes finding a date even more difficult than usual). I definitely look back on that fondly. The second guy hung around with my roommate and me for a while just as friends before he and I began dating. It was a slow process. Now the third guy, I just thought he was the goofiest guy going, not in a good way. He just struck me as not the kind of guy I EVER wanted to date. Not a bad guy, just not my type. At all. We've been married almost 24 years. First impressions can be very wrong.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 6, 2014 9:37:55 GMT -5
in Laralei's defense there are some comments and posts that Phoenix makes that push my buttons and make me what to smack him upside the back of the head. While I appreciate his candor and the alternate view there have been a few times when I've thought "what an arrogant ass". I have to be honest (and my apologies to you Phoenix).
I think it's because he is a bit rigid in some of his opinions and many of those opinions seemed to be based more on theory than experience. As a 38 year old that's been married for 17 years and has a 16 year old son I have very different opinions on marriage, raising kids, current trends in bullying, etc. than 29 year old single guy with no kids.
I don't remember all of the threads but when there's a thread on say "Disciplining your kids" and a post starts with "Well I don't have kids, but when I do....." Or "I'm not married, but when I am, my wife...."
I honestly used to let those things get under my skin but then I realized that it's just a difference of opinion and if I look back at my life I'm sure that there are hundreds of times in which I've thought "I would never" and then gone on to do what I swore I'd never do or say or what have you.
There is a great disconnect sometimes between Theory and Experience. I just have accepted that some of Phoenix's opinions are based more on Theory than Experience.
I've made it my life's mission (not really) to needle him to into changing the rigid opinions and views he has on some things.
Again- my apologies to Phoenix if I've offended you.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Jun 6, 2014 9:38:40 GMT -5
omg! talk about a disconnect!!!
I imagined awkward, skinny guy in outdated clothes.
You look cute. Definately not ugly. And I don't see anything wrong with your clothes. Maybe the jeans a little but too comfort cut, but not too much.
If I just saw your picture, I would actually think that you looked aggressive. I think it's your strong jaw line. Someone said something similar. bunnysmom??
Maybe grow out your hair to soften your features a bit.
But overall you are a nice-looking guy!
Look, I know women who are beautiful, smart, educated with great personalities and can't get a boyfriend to save their life.
And here I am, moderately attractive, educated with really messed up in my head with an overall difficult personality, and I have almost never been without a boyfriend.
Sometimes, it makes no sense.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 6, 2014 9:39:22 GMT -5
None of my posts have discussed changing who he is it's more a matter of expanding the playing field. Some of the recommendations about clothes have him dressing like 90% of the guys I've seen since I've been going to Vegas for the last 11 years. Nothing wrong at all with how he's dressed in the pics. Be who you are but try to open up and give some of the girls who initiate contact with you a chance. Even if the two of you don't hit it off you might make a female friend and that friend could be the one that introduces you to the person you spend the rest of your life with. I think the advice to not be fixated on finding a wife is spot on. Yes that's your goal but you don't want to be wound too tight. Have fun going on dates, try things someone else is into and who knows what will come of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 9:48:19 GMT -5
Everybody is commenting on how great his looks are. But the thing is looks will only get you the 1st date. That is it! And that is all he has been getting. So I really think he needs to work on his people skills. I would shelf the dating for a little bit and work on making friends.
I recently (well not so recent anymore) moved to a new city. First thing I did was join "meetup" groups and met a lot of people and even dated guys I met through the meetups. I used to be VERY shy and I am still uncomfortable in situations where I don't know people. But somehow I made it through meetups and made some good friends that I would go out with and do other things with. Work on making friends of both sexes first, then work on getting a girlfriend.
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sunshinegal1981
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Post by sunshinegal1981 on Jun 6, 2014 9:54:19 GMT -5
Rainyday, I imagined tall skinny nerd as well. With a cell-phone holder the size of a meteor attached to his belt, and a too-tightly-tucked-in shirt. He definitely shouldn't grow out his hair though! Ew ew ew! Strong jawlines are sexy!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 10:00:16 GMT -5
"He definitely shouldn't grow out his hair though! Ew ew ew! "
Agree 100%! I don't think he needs to change his looks or even clothing at all. Just needs to talk and therefore show his interest more.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Jun 6, 2014 10:06:00 GMT -5
I don't think you are an arrogant ass, but over the years I have picked up an odd vibe toward women. Like you don't have any experience being friends with a woman as an individual and consider us as a cohesive and slightly intimidating group. You will occasionally make posts with a bit of angst, act like we get preferential treatment, and sometimes sound slightly resentful. I think you have grown out of most of it but I still get an occasional vibe. I am not trying to put you down in any way, just saying that if the vibe is there, the easiest way to fix it is to become friends with a few women. I think you should find situations to interact with women socially in a risk free situation. Get some practice talking to them in a place where there is no pressure or expectation, so it doesn't feel weird on a date where it does count. So once again I will trot out a couple of Denver area meetups. I think you should go to some of their meetings and practice talking to people socially until it feels more natural. Then try out the social skills on a date. www.meetup.com/After-Work-Hiking-Plus/www.meetup.com/funadults/
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jun 6, 2014 10:07:31 GMT -5
So, i've read most of the responses, but a few thoughts...
1. Get over the texting thing. We are about the same age - I literally talk to zero people on the phone anymore unless it's work related or my mom. I talk with my best best friends ont he phone maybe 1x a month. But we email, text, etc. frequently. If you are the strong silent type, text works to your advantage - you have time to formulate a reply!
2. You're hot and totally my type. I'd do you. Unfortunately I'm married, so I can't right now, but hey. Looks ain't the problem.
3. Relaxing on the education/career thing - you know, it is fine to have standards. I had standards when I had my online dating profiles up - I only wanted to date guys with a certain education level and certain income. I went out on dates with guys that fit that criteria, and clicked with exactly zero of them. The guy I ended up marrying was a bouncer at my friend's favorite bar who had dropped out of college. But he was funny, smart, cute, etc. Now, he has a career and makes good money and will someday go back for his degree. It turns out that with the right person, that stuff didn't matter to me so much after all. You need to find someone you click with - and your filters may be preventing that. So standards should maybe be more guidelines than rules.
4. Activity dates - I disagree, I think activity dates can be great for first dates, especially for quiet types - it gives you something to talk about. But I would think about what the activity dates are - like go to a coffee shop or for a drink, but pick a place that has board games and play a game while you chat. Those types of things give you something to talk about, and an opportunity to show your fun side - it's hard to play a game of "Guess Who?" without being able to crack a couple smiles and jokes. It's still a low-risk date, less of a time commitment, but also gives you what you need to be social.
5. And here's where we come to the part I've struggled with how to say... Are you fun on dates? Most people want dates to be fun, funny, engaging. Do you know how to flirt? You don't seem like a flirty guy to me, but flirting is part of what tells you that someone is interested. It's part of what makes dating fun. You need to learn how to flirt if you don't know how! It's a skill, and it's pretty key to getting people engaged in dating you.
6. If you have flaws, acknowledging them off the bat can help! If there's an awkward pause in conversation, acknowledge it - say, "Sorry, I'm a little shy." or make a joke of it. "Soooo, this is awkward... How about that weather?"
Sorry you're having a hard time with this - know that everyone who is looking to have a serious relationship hates dating - until it works!
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jun 6, 2014 10:20:39 GMT -5
P - you look good. That isn't the problem. I agree with a lot of what bsbound says. It is hard. It's been 10 years since I was single. Back then, I had a profile up on a website for about 2 days before I took it down because I couldn't deal with the pressure. It's hard putting yourself out there all the time. I am way better at starting to date people I already know. Somehow that takes the pressure off, or at least that nervous first date jitter stuff. Lena has good points, too. You are young, employed, and good looking. It's just a matter of time.
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justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
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Post by justme on Jun 6, 2014 10:31:14 GMT -5
At the risk of trying to change you and incurring the wrath of Lena....you have the type of build that looks pretty good in a fitted button up shirt with stripes/plaid and the sleeves rolled up. It gives a more relaxed vibe than polos. Just saying
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