justme
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Post by justme on Jun 5, 2014 17:24:39 GMT -5
So, in thinking about your situation (as if I hadn't already said enough)...you said you haven't really dated much if at all, right? Even though you're older and want a serious relationship, you're like an 18 yo that's just trying to figure out how to date out of high school in some aspects. When I was younger there were very few people I said no to dates with. Pretty much if I found you even mildly attractive I'd give one date with you a go because I just wanted to have fun. I even dated several smokers, among other traits, that I now wouldn't date a guy with those. That decade of dating has given me a good idea of who and what I mesh with and what I want. Because I know what I want or at least what I don't want, from trying, I can more accurately be picky about who I date now. I lament on how I'm not going on dates as much as I used to, and a part of me wants to do that again - but I stopped doing that because I felt like I was wasting my time with guys I knew I didn't want a relationship with. I'm getting a better quality guy, but they're harder to find and I'm mostly ok with being by myself until I find him.
Right now, all of your wants, needs, and dealbreakers are all theoretical. Yes, they all may be logical to you but all of dating isn't logical. Without being out there in the dating world, without having that person you interact with, what you want is all a nebulous idea in your head. You're only going to find out for sure what you want by going out there and experimenting and finding out what you want. Now, I'm not saying go be a cad or anything, but I think you could do well with a foray into the "throw everything against the wall and hope something sticks" method.
If you're mildly attractive to her, go get coffee with her. At the end of the date ask yourself if you had fun - if you did ask her out on a second date, if not well on to the next one. I think you need to date for fun for a while to be comfortable with the idea of dating and to get an idea of your dating style and what you like and don't like before going in for the kill and dating with a goal.
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Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 5, 2014 17:37:51 GMT -5
Wow. Hot topic. You've got pages and pages of advice in just a few hours, Phoenix. Be sure to thank everyone when you're done. You'll be a dating dynamo.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 5, 2014 17:41:34 GMT -5
Wow. Hot topic. You've got pages and pages of advice in just a few hours, Phoenix. Be sure to thank everyone when you're done. You'll be a dating dynamo. Phoenix - It looks like you got a bite already! Virgil's blowing you kisses. Damn we are good!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 5, 2014 17:49:03 GMT -5
Wow. Hot topic. You've got pages and pages of advice in just a few hours, Phoenix. Be sure to thank everyone when you're done. You'll be a dating dynamo. Phoenix - It looks like you got a bite already! Virgil's blowing you kisses. Damn we are good!
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Jun 5, 2014 17:51:00 GMT -5
Phoenix:
I did not see it mentioned or maybe I missed it, you mentioned it is difficult for you to converse on a date, so is there a chance for you to go on a double date or in a small group where the pressure to talk is not entirely on you?
You really do have a lot to offer, so I hope you don't get discouraged. If I were you, I would respond to most of the people who seem interested, barring those who have one or two of your strongest deal breakers, even if you think at first you have little in common. You may be surprised.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 17:52:42 GMT -5
How is your eye contact?
I agree reed with relaxing education rule, and with pursuing anyone who winks at you, etc. And at least consider it practice.
Just FYI, I have a masters, I'm the one who stays home... Husband has an AS.
Im also going to reiterate meetups groups and other venues as perhaps better than online.
Lots of good advice here!
Also, I think that the laughing is important.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 5, 2014 17:58:29 GMT -5
I was kind of curious about that too. You mentioned you don't really have female friends but what about guy friends you go out with? You mentioned you have too much time to think about this stuff but I hope you're still getting out and doing things with friends. Even people in relationships need to get out with friends and have guy/girl nights or trips. If you go out to movies, bars, dinner or have a hobby that gets you out with friends it's a good way to meet other people where you can kind of feed off your friends conversation and not be the center of attention.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 18:06:13 GMT -5
I would also reconsider anyone who seems interested in you as long as they aren't completely outside of what you're looking for. the worst thing that will happen is you'll waste an hour of your time at lunch.
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morrisr2d2
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Post by morrisr2d2 on Jun 5, 2014 18:11:42 GMT -5
I think it's great Phoenix for you to open up on line. Very courageous and trusting, qualities most women would find attractive I think.
All this advice, while great and good intentioned, has to be overwhelming. Keep it simple. Be involved with people and activities, expand your network of friends, be yourself and confident and time will take care of the rest.
On a light note, you have a good male friend whose gay? That could be your ticket to meeting a range of eligible women, and he'd give you great advice!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 5, 2014 18:16:34 GMT -5
Something that came to mind:
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 5, 2014 18:17:15 GMT -5
- The strong silent type thing probably isn't doing you any favors man. Put yourself in your dates position for a minute, and answer honestly how attracted you would be to a lady who didn't really say much while you were out. I'm guessing you wouldn't be, because you don't know anything about her to be attracted to...I think this is either something you will have to conscientiously work on (like remind yourself to ask her questions) or find a less intimidating way to date. By that I mean settings where you already know each other a little bit before going on a date, like a photography club or church or something.
This is really a biggie, Phoenix. When you are on a date, you are getting to know the person. If you don't contribute to the conversation, someone needs to and it gets increasingly more difficult.
The guy I dated was a cutie, but DAMN it was hard talking to him because he didn't give me anything to work with. So by the end of the date, I was freaking exhausted. I felt like I was doing all the 'getting to know him', and yet he hadn't asked me a thing and the only time he would talk was to answer a question. How do you think it made ME feel?
If I put myself out to meet a guy and go on a date, he is going to need to make the effort too. Just being there listening isn't sufficient, he needs to contribute.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 5, 2014 18:36:28 GMT -5
Never mind on the pics. Turns out I now have to pay to upload pics on image shack, and I'm not going to do that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 18:38:11 GMT -5
Do you make eye contact on dates?
You can use photobucket for photos.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 18:44:45 GMT -5
As for a dating outfit.. get rid of the golf/polo style shirts. A nice pair of jeans, a nice pair of shoes and a button down shirt, untucked, top button undone and sleeves rolled up. Spend a little money on your clothes so they fit well. Nothing flashy/over the top, just well made clothes. Yep. Thats a good look. Nice shoes! I know so many women that pay at least as much attention to a man's shoes as his clothing. They don't need to be flashy or super expensive, but nice and in good condition. Sorry, I couldn't resist adding that. I just hear so many women talk about it.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 5, 2014 18:49:21 GMT -5
I understand that confidence is attractive, but how do you get confidence when you have nothing to be confident about? You have plenty to be confident about. I can see that from here. You have to start seeing that if you want others to see it.
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sunshinegal1981
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Post by sunshinegal1981 on Jun 5, 2014 19:05:39 GMT -5
Never mind on the pics. Turns out I now have to pay to upload pics on image shack, and I'm not going to do that. www.imgur.com
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 19:43:05 GMT -5
I've been single a looong time. I think at least part of the problem for you is a lack of confidence, as has been mentioned. Confidence is very attractive, even in men that don't look all that great or make piles and piles of money. You can tell when people are comfortable in their skin and other people are naturally drawn to people like that. I don't think you give yourself enough credit. So, you haven't met a woman yet that was willing to look beneath the surface and value what you have to offer......... that's about them, not you.
So in all my years of dating, I don't look for boyfriends. I'm always open to making new friends though. Preparing to go on a first "date" makes me really nervous, preparing to go out and have some fun, not so much. So I tell myself I'm just going out to check out someone new and have some fun, to ease the pressure.
I'm actually kind of shy and don't talk a lot when I first meet someone. I don't have a problem being upfront about that when I meet someone new. Just putting it out there makes me a little more comfortable and helps ease my fear of feeling awkward, for whatever reason. I also learned when I was going to counseling with my kids that I tend to ask questions like I'm conducting an interrogation. I do it because I'm interested in what that person has to say, but I understand that it can come across in a negative way especially to someone that I've just met, so I'm mindful of that.
I get wondering what, if anything, you're doing wrong but I do think you need to relax about it all. It's too much pressure to be looking for a serious relationship or a wife and you (general you, not necessarily you in particular) tend to give off weird vibes that people pick up on and don't like (even if they can't consciously identify exactly what bothers them) unless they're up to no good.
Man, I wish we lived closer to one another so I could give you feedback IRL. I think you're a good guy and I want you to be happy with or without a special someone.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 5, 2014 19:50:50 GMT -5
I was single for many years after my divorce. By choice. I dated and, yes, because I'm outgoing, it was easier for me to get dates/have fun. But I also just took it easy. I'm glad I did for many reasons, the main one being I needed to FIX myself first. Because I took care of myself, I'm now in a place where I can make better choices. You're young. Very young. Get out there and have fun. THAT should be your goal and if you don't want to date women with children, so be it. DS is almost 31 and having a great time. He won't date women with children either. It doesn't make you or him a bad person. That wasnt a deal breaker for me but I had them myself.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 5, 2014 20:03:34 GMT -5
I wonder if any of you realize that so much of advice given here is really catered to the poster and what he/she would find attractive. Not to mention that you pretty much told him to mostly change his criteria and reinvent himself.
There is nothing wrong with Phonenix. Some people find more matches while dating. Some not.
Changing your criteria so much and changing yourself might get you a date, but is it really going to get you a partner that you can be happy with for life?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 5, 2014 20:53:50 GMT -5
Man, I wish we lived closer to one another so I could give you feedback IRL. I think you're a good guy and I want you to be happy with or without a special someone. Is it weird that a whole bunch of us wish we lived near Phoenix just so we could help him out? I would totally go on a practice date with him too. It says something about you that a lot of us think you are great & deserve a great girl. You are a good person, it can just sometimes be hard to get a stranger to recognize that in a short meeting.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 5, 2014 21:10:01 GMT -5
I wonder if any of you realize that so much of advice given here is really catered to the poster and what he/she would find attractive. Not to mention that you pretty much told him to mostly change his criteria and reinvent himself. There is nothing wrong with Phonenix. Some people find more matches while dating. Some not. Changing your criteria so much and changing yourself might get you a date, but is it really going to get you a partner that you can be happy with for life? Well it all depends on his goals. No one on here said he wasn't a great person, but if what he really wants is to meet a great person & get married, then he might have to work at it. He can either hope that the right girl will eventually fall in his lap or he can work on improving himself so that is more likely to happen. There are certain things that pretty universally attractive - confidence is one of them (as long as it doesn't reach the point of arrogance) & happiness is another. Not too mention that having confidence & happiness make for a better/happier life overall because you like yourself more. I don't see that trying to gain confidence is changing yourself, but rather improving yourself & we could all use improvement in some way or another. Part of dating, especially online dating is selling yourself & that can be hard to do. You may be the most fantastic guy in the universe, but if your profile contains a bunch of poorly-lit selfies while making a peace sign & all you wrote is a bunch of negative stuff about not wanting women with drama, then you aren't going to attract many women & certainly won't attract the type of women you want. Phoenix doesn't need to change who he is at the core because he is a great guy & the right women will love that, he just may need to work on confidence & first impressions. As far as criteria, he needs to recognize deal-breakers vs what he thinks is ideal. It is totally fine to have deal-breakers & it is totally fine if kids is one of them. But everything you want shouldn't be a deal-breaker because some stuff you will find isn't as important as you thought it was when you meet the right person.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 5, 2014 21:21:52 GMT -5
Agreed, Angel. And just look at us here! It's no wonder Phoenix has a difficult time figuring us out. We are all different and want/wish different things. For instance, he is getting a lot of advice on wardrobe. I can't think of anything that means less to me than "packaging". But then I am biased. I married a beautiful man who was always impeccably dressed and he turned out to be a total horse's butt. Give me worn jeans and gentleness any day over well-dressed. All women are different. Instead of changing himself to fit them, I hope he just waits till he finds someone who wants HIM to feel as comfortable and cared for as much as he wants her to feel the same
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 6, 2014 1:03:37 GMT -5
Hmmm, finally got it to work. Thanks to sunshinegal81 for the tip on imgur. So feel free to offer CC, or just tell me I'm butt ugly like Virgil did.
Anyway, this is a pic of me wine tasting in Napa Valley last October.
The rest of these are of me at Big Sur in October.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Jun 6, 2014 1:44:50 GMT -5
Damn Phoenix - if I wasn't old enough to be your mother I'd snap you up myself!
I have a niece who is 25 and next time I see her, and her friends, I'll ask what a guy in your situation should do and then report back. I figure it will be interesting to see what she has to say as they are members of your prime demographic albeit too far away.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Jun 6, 2014 2:06:25 GMT -5
Phoenix your a good looking guy, get out there dude and have FUN.
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sunshinegal1981
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Post by sunshinegal1981 on Jun 6, 2014 2:37:49 GMT -5
Jesus. You're cute as fuck.
It's something else, then, definitely. Lol!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 3:03:46 GMT -5
Are you comfortable with people in general? I didn't read every post, but I have the idea that groups of people make you uncomfortable. If social skills are your main issue, I think you have gotten some really great advice, but it is very difficult to independently re-invent yourself. You probably need some coaches.
Even if all the people at work are older (heck, like some of us here) do they ever go out after work for drinks or go to ball games or things like that? I would really urge you to go out with them to start being social in a non dating arena to get more comfortable with the social stuff. If you are starting hiking, join a group so you have some social interaction while you are doing it.
The suggestions you got before were more about joining group activities that were interesting to you so that you could meet people with common interests.
How well do you know yourself? What do you like to do in your free time?
Napa wine tasting pic is great. Looks like it was a fun day.
Do you live in an urban area or are you somewhere in suburbia where it is harder to meet people? Do you want to say what area you are in. You talk about the government job, so I assumed DC area, but I don't think that is where mid is and now you throw in left coast photos! Does that mean California?
Criteria or a list. I'm not sure if it helps or hurts. I know every time I made a list of what I wanted and then met a person that fit the list I was awfully disappointed in what reality was. I think you actually have a better time if you toss the criteria away and experiment for a while. You might find a gal that is smart with or without specific degrees. You might find a gal with a kid that you just click with. If you have absolute deal-breakers, just make sure you have personal experience with why it is a deal-breaker. Putting something on a list just because it sounds good or reasonable doesn't make it the best list for you.
Brainy is the new Sexy so there is still hope for the awkward at heart!
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jun 6, 2014 5:20:10 GMT -5
Jesus. You're cute as fuck. It's something else, then, definitely. Lol! I agree. If I lived in Phoenix's neck of the woods I would be asking for his number (despite the fact I'm several years older). Attractive, smart, kind, he's a catch. I would encourage Phoenix to consider dating a few women who don't match his criteria exactly. There could be some great women out there who are being over looked who would see Phoenix as a catch.
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Jun 6, 2014 5:26:46 GMT -5
Nice pics, Phoenix.
You look like a guy who was in my anesthesia class years ago. He was smart, cute and funny. He has since died, but seeing your pics brought back great memories.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 5:39:04 GMT -5
Pheonix, I'm asking the eye contact question because, I had a friend once, great friend. I guess he was interested and I didn't realize it, when he asked me out to dinner once I could tell his composure seemed different than a regular 'let's meet up', but it wasn't till he picked me up I realized it was. 'A date'. His whole demeanor was different then usual. He did not relax at all. He did not make eye contact at all. He was very much going from a script of what he obviously thought 'a date' should be. It was very uncomfortable. The eye contact thing was worst for me.
You are tall it seems from the pictures?
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