beergut
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Post by beergut on Jun 5, 2014 15:01:32 GMT -5
Hmmm, several things to address here: 1) Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Whether you realize you're doing it or not you are, and it's annoying. Self-pity only makes me think you're worth pitying. 2) The #1 thing guys who complain about "good guys finish last" or "girls only want the bad boys" have in common is that they lack confidence. You know why girls like the bad boys? Because they'll actually walk up to the girl and talk to her and ask her out, while the 'good guy' is standing around in the friend zone, hoping she'll magically realize he's "Mr. Right". To be blunt, stop being a , and go ask her out. 3) Your message asking for their phone number is way too long, to the point that you come across as awkward. "Would you like to talk on the phone sometime? If so, my number is X. If you're not ready yet, that's fine, but if you'd like me to call you, let me know what your number is and a good time to call." That third sentence there shows you're already steeling yourself for rejection, which shows you lack confidence, and the second part of that sentence is overly demanding. A simple, "I don't want to be too forward, but I've enjoyed talking to you online, here is my number if you're like to text or call me" is enough. You've put the ball in their court, now you can see if they want to shoot or pass it off. If a girl likes you, they'll text you or give you their number. 4) Learn to dance. You don't mention this at any point in your list of qualities, so I wonder if you can do this. You ever go to bars and clubs, and see all the women standing around th dance floor? They're there because they want to dance. If you can dance, you're golden. And don't get judgmental and only choose the prettiest girl there, grab the first girl you see in a group and ask her to dance. Then ask the next girl and the next one and the next one until you come to the one who you really wanted to ask. If she's there with her friends, they'll be insulted if you only go for the hottest one (Nash principle does apply somewhat here). You're not looking for someone to go home with, you just want a dance partner. While you're on the dance floor, you can talk to the girl. Think of this as a short speed dating exercise. You can ask her name, ask what she does, ask who she is there with, why they are out tonight, etc. This is you practicing being social. At the end of the dance, thank her for the dance. Even if she has no interest in dancing to another song or talking to you some more, this is just polite. And if she is interested in dancing some more or wants you to meet her friends, this is just another sign that she is making the right decision by choosing to continue to talk to you. If you don't know how to dance, go take some classes. Great way to meet people while also brushing up on a useful skill. Since you're in Phoenix, I'd suggest learning to two-step and country waltz. They're both easy to do, and you can do them when not-so-sober, which makes them ideal for doing in bars while you're having a good time socializing with women. 5) Learn to laugh. You say you're the "strong, silent type", well, how is that working out for you? Women like to laugh, just like anyone else. It helps the endorphins flow, which keeps people happy, and makes them feel good about the date and feel good about you. The biggest key to getting a second date is making her laugh. 6) Get over this prejudice about women who have kids already. Single moms are usually tired of BS and ready to get serious. Do you have some issue with raising some other man's child? If you do, get over it. Worst case scenario, she got him out of her life for a very valid reason, or he wasn't man enough to be a father. Best case scenario, he is still in his children's lives, and that is something you have to deal with. It takes a village to raise a child, nothing wrong with being a step-dad and becoming a village member. Worst case scenario for you is that you become a mentor for a kid. There are worst things in life, trust me. 7) Stop freaking out about being single. I don't know why people are so impatient to meet someone and get into a relationship, because they come across as a bit needy. They act like being single is a disease or something. If you're comfortable with yourself, and comfortable being single, I think that is when you find someone. 8) Don't treat dating as 'the great mate search', which is what you're currently doing, treat it as two (potential) friends going out to have a good time and enjoy each other's company. You're putting too much pressure on deciding if this person is 'right' to be your future mate, instead of just focusing on having a good time. Ideally, your mate is your best friend who you also share intimate times with. Stop looking for a mate, look for a friend first. Hope you can handle someone being blunt.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jun 5, 2014 15:02:12 GMT -5
Maybe go with "intelligent" vs. a certain level of education? Yes, you'll have to talk to a lot more people to figure out if they are or aren't, but the ones you've been talking to haven't been working out anyway so what can it hurt? If Justme had been asking what you're asking I'd tell her the same thing FWIW. Geeze, did all my posts that I'm not exclusively looking for a certain level of education get eaten. I swears I don't cross off guys not having a diploma! Of my relationships only one had a college degree. No, but *he* fixated on it, so just saying it doesn't really matter WHO is asking. I'd advise being more flexible in any scenario from any of you. If I'd been too picky, I wouldn't have my current DH, and that would be a real shame.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 15:02:51 GMT -5
when I was doing online dating, I immediately rejected any guy who responded to me that clearly hadn't read my profile because he didn't meet my 'what I was looking for'. age, race, area, height, etc. I'm very picky but that's life. I also didn't contact guys whose criteria I didn't fit.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 5, 2014 15:03:45 GMT -5
So, what standards are acceptable to have? How do you determine if someone is right for you? You obviously have to have some standards when deciding if your date is a good fit for you. You listen to your gut.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 5, 2014 15:05:39 GMT -5
I don't even think he needs to do that. He should just text asking if they want to go out again. If they say no, ignore it, or make up some lame excuse then he knows she isn't interested.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 5, 2014 15:06:43 GMT -5
Phoenix84 - you really should consider stop analyzing yourself and everything else to death. Dating is not science. While many people made oodles of money giving out all kinds of dating and relationship advice, all of it is just really made up shit.There are people who did everything "right" and looked for the "right" person and ended up in divorce. And then there are stories of complete opposite, where no one would have guessed that a couple would last and yet, they are on their 50th wedding anniversary Know who you are. Know what you bring to the table (OMG, the world must be ending cause I agree with Tennesseer), know who you are looking for, but at the same time be open enough to recognize the potential. And again, for goodness sake, stop thinking that there is something wrong with you!!!!!! I agree with most of your post except the bold part. There is somewhat of a science to dating if you want to be successful. Phoenix is obviously doing something not quite right if he is never getting the second date. From what has been discussed on this thread so far, I would guess his biggest mistake is not asking for it on the first date. If you wait two days to contact her again she has probably decided you weren't interested & kind of written you off. Make it OBVIOUS without being creepy that you like her & want to see her again. I have never been asked for a second date on the first date. I have never decided a guy wasn't interested bc he didn't ask right away. While I do consider myself very special, I seriously doubt I am the only girl who has never been asked that. A verryyyyyy long time ago I read a book about body language and dating and what signals you should and should not send, blah blah blah. The author made it seem like it was a scientific fact. Then I got a few more books and they all pretty much agreed on the same things. Well, one of those things was - when you, as a woman, sit in a car with a guy, if your legs crossed away from him, you are sending him a signal that you are not interested. That was only one of the BS things the book said. The reason it was a BS bc I noticed that I actually do sit like that, but it was bc my legs looked so much better that way. So, I started asking my friends. And quite a few of them said the same thing. I am not saying that my anecdote proves or disproves anything. It's just a story. But in my about 15 yrs of dating, talking to guys I dated, guy friends, my girlfriends, doing on-line thing, and lord knows what else - there is no rhyme or reason for things. Dating is fairly unpredictable and when you start thinking and analyzing things too much - well, in my opinion, it's just not worth the time.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 5, 2014 15:07:14 GMT -5
YM always harps on getting a useful degree and how if you don't you'll never earn a good living.DH has an associate's, which nowadays you might as well wipe your butt with. But today he works with the USDA and FDA, gets regular bonuses/profit shares and stands to out earn me. Yet I have the coveted YM approved STEM agree. I would have missed out on a lot if I had rejected DH because he only ended up with an associate's. DH is not unintelligent. He can run circles around me right now as far as current events and politics. I can tell you which episode of Team Umizoomi was on today. I know people with PhD's who are as dumb as posts and very boring unless you are talking about their specific field. There's nothing wrong with having standards or a list, but you shouldn't be so inflexible that you're rejecting women who are interested in you solely because they don't match up with your bulleted list of expectations. Meanwhile you're chasing after ladies who meet your expectations but aren't even making it to a second date. Something's not adding up here. DH is my polar opposite. We joke there is no way Eharmony would ever match us together. There are a lot of things that were "wrong" with DH as far as what I was looking for in a guy at the time. Yet we've been married 6 years now. Sometimes you need to look outside the box rather than trying to force others to get in.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 5, 2014 15:07:49 GMT -5
Hmmm, several things to address here: 2) The #1 thing guys who complain about "good guys finish last" or "girls only want the bad boys" have in common is that they lack confidence. You know why girls like the bad boys? Because they'll actually walk up to the girl and talk to her and ask her out, while the 'good guy' is standing around in the friend zone, hoping she'll magically realize he's "Mr. Right". To be blunt, stop being a , and go ask her out. x 1,000 beergut made a lot of good points, but I think this was the biggest. Bad boys have confidence & that is attractive. They are bold & not afraid of being rejected, so they talk to the girls while the good guys don't. Girls don't like bad boys, they like guys who have the guts to ask us out, tell us we are beautiful, etc. Unfortunately bad boys are much better at it.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jun 5, 2014 15:08:28 GMT -5
Criteria is fine but some of what you posted makes it sound like you're looking for a business partner and not someone you may have a connection with. In some ways you are but being too rigid means you'll miss out on some opportunities. When I met my gf I already had my career going while she was still in school and I had been out on my own for years while she still lived at home. The fact that she wanted to further her education, pull her own weight and move out when the time came was more than enough for me. What she makes or what she majored in was really a non-factor especially when she paid her own way through college while working. I met her when I was your age and if and if I had strict education requirements or wanted someone that lived on their own I would have missed out on the best thing in my life.
edit - beergut for the win.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 5, 2014 15:10:55 GMT -5
I will also say - I didn't spend too much time on dating websites (about a year in college) but in my experience I got waaaay more messages from guys than I ever sent TO guys. I think guys tend to be more likely to make the first move in that type of environment.
So if girls are going to the effort to message you - that is a very good sign! Jump on that! (maybe literally - LOL).
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 5, 2014 15:11:23 GMT -5
Phoenix84 - you really should consider stop analyzing yourself and everything else to death. Dating is not science. While many people made oodles of money giving out all kinds of dating and relationship advice, all of it is just really made up shit. There are people who did everything "right" and looked for the "right" person and ended up in divorce. And then there are stories of complete opposite, where no one would have guessed that a couple would last and yet, they are on their 50th wedding anniversary Know who you are. Know what you bring to the table (OMG, the world must be ending cause I agree with Tennesseer), know who you are looking for, but at the same time be open enough to recognize the potential. And again, for goodness sake, stop thinking that there is something wrong with you!!!!!! You're probably right. I realize sometimes (maybe even much of the time) overanalyze things. It's probably a consequence of being alone so much. When no one is around to really have a conversation with, you turn inward and think. I don't talk to myself or anything like that, but hopefully you know what I mean. I truly wish you to find a person who want. I don't know if this has been suggested, but have you considered starting a meet-up for singles? At least you will have other single people to hang out with and bounce ideas off and you never know where that can lead
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 5, 2014 15:16:06 GMT -5
So, what standards are acceptable to have? How do you determine if someone is right for you? You obviously have to have some standards when deciding if your date is a good fit for you. This just breaks my heart that you keep questioning yourself. Whatever standards YOU find important. Don't have them set in stone (except the very important ones), but you shouldn't forgo things that are important to you either.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 5, 2014 15:16:16 GMT -5
You seem to be upset that you don't have any intimate relationships and are getting increasingly upset about that. You also go to a lot of trouble to set up activity dates so you won't have to be as worried. To me, and I could be wrong , you are putting the cart before the horse. You are planning these activities for the dates as a way to help you get a girl, but you really don't have any activities you normally do that would get you seeing people and maybe meeting people with similar interests that you could see socially. Do you pick bowling and skating because you like them? If you do then why not join a bowling league or skating goup? Then when you are bowling you will be interacting with other people who also like bowling and will have something to talk about with them. The added bonus is you would get out there and meet people who would know you and maybe introduce you to others. IME this is a lot easier when it happens naturally as apposed to having to go through all this to try and make it happen. So my best advice would actually stop trying to date and focus on the parts of you life that would get you meeting people and doing things you enjoy. Once you start doing that I'm sure you will have an easier time with the dating front.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 5, 2014 15:16:57 GMT -5
Have you ever thought that maybe you should start looking more for friendship than a life partner? IMO it takes the pressure off and friendship can often turn into more. I just think you are way too focused on the dating thing and you need to focus more on just meeting people. I know you aren't very social but just get out and have some fun. Go hiking, go to concerts, play golf, whatever... just get go out and start doing things and stop worrying about dating so much.
Of course, I am a social person with several friends so I realize this might not come as easily for some people.
ETA: beach and I were obviously posting at the same time so yeah that to what she said
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 5, 2014 15:20:47 GMT -5
I will also say - I didn't spend too much time on dating websites (about a year in college) but in my experience I got waaaay more messages from guys than I ever sent TO guys. I think guys tend to be more likely to make the first move in that type of environment. So if girls are going to the effort to message you - that is a very good sign! Jump on that! (maybe literally - LOL). I am fairly traditional when it comes to dating (among other things) so when I did on-line thing, I never contacted them first. I "liked" their profile and waited for them to contact me. I also never posted my pic on line!!
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 5, 2014 15:22:15 GMT -5
I think it's the word 'Standards' that is throwing me off. Honestly it makes you sound elitist and snobby. Please note everything I've posted on this thread has been done in an effort to help not to insult you.
IF I were single there are things I'd look for in a guy: 1. sense of humor. Seriously it sounds clichéd but I love to laugh and if you can't make me laugh you're out. 2. intelligence- no you don't have to be a rocket scientist but I'd like to be able to carry on an intelligent conversation with a person. 3. Opinions!!!! OMG I hate people that don't have opinions. 4. Willingness to try things. I have a co-worker that drives me up a wall. He will say "Oh, I'm flexible I'll eat anything" and then when he hears I like Sushi he starts making gagging noises and says it's disgusting while admitting he's never actually tried it. 5. A job, career, goal, plan something other than a desire to be a lump on a log.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 5, 2014 15:25:17 GMT -5
If you're still going to post pictures - post the ones you have on your dating profile and say which one is the profile pic. I can't tell you how many guys have a bad profile picture - and that's what gets the girls to click to see the rest of your profile.
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jeffreymo
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Post by jeffreymo on Jun 5, 2014 15:28:37 GMT -5
You have to talk in order to get the feeling of whether the girl accepts who you are and enjoys being around you. When you start receiving that type of feedback from a girl is when the endorphins start to rush in and the next thing you know you've been talking for hours. You can be in a crowded restaurant but it it will seem like the 2 of you are the only ones in the room.
You'll never get that queue or those feelings if she does all the talking.
My advice would be to meet out for drinks, which will help you talk, and don't think about long term - maybe even look for a one night stand.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Jun 5, 2014 15:35:37 GMT -5
I don't even think he needs to do that. He should just text asking if they want to go out again. If they say no, ignore it, or make up some lame excuse then he knows she isn't interested. This wasn't about asking for a second date, this was simply about asking for their number after exchanging messages online.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 5, 2014 15:43:25 GMT -5
I don't even think he needs to do that. He should just text asking if they want to go out again. If they say no, ignore it, or make up some lame excuse then he knows she isn't interested. This wasn't about asking for a second date, this was simply about asking for their number after exchanging messages online. Got it. I was too focused on his calling them for a 2nd date thing... yes, what you said is right on track
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 5, 2014 15:43:50 GMT -5
If you're still going to post pictures - post the ones you have on your dating profile and say which one is the profile pic. I can't tell you how many guys have a bad profile picture - and that's what gets the girls to click to see the rest of your profile. Good point, although they are probably decent if he is getting dates. But, I really hope you don't just have 5 selfies posted or something. And there is such a thing as too many pictures. Don't post not-so-good ones just to have more pictures. Better to just have 3 than to have 7, but 4 of them don't make you look attractive.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jun 5, 2014 15:48:01 GMT -5
You have to talk in order to get the feeling of whether the girl accepts who you are and enjoys being around you. When you start receiving that type of feedback from a girl is when the endorphins start to rush in and the next thing you know you've been talking for hours. You can be in a crowded restaurant but it it will seem like the 2 of you are the only ones in the room. You'll never get that queue or those feelings if she does all the talking. My advice would be to meet out for drinks, which will help you talk, and don't think about long term - maybe even look for a one night stand. I would think most people want someone that they just connect with and could talk to for hours. That won't happen if the conversation is too one-sided. Think of something you are passionate about and enjoy talking about - at some point in the date bring that up & talk about it.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 5, 2014 15:59:27 GMT -5
I think you should even reconsider the kid thing. There just might be that perfect someone out there without a perfect past who would be worth the challenge of helping parent their child.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 15:59:48 GMT -5
You need to learn to relax and not be so uptight. Just learn to have a little fun so that the person sitting across from you can have fun. Not everything in your life has to be perfect. So you are good looking from what i read earlier. Ok, great, you already are ahead of the game, that easily gets you the first date but only the first date (and much easier than a guy that doesn't look so great).
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 5, 2014 16:00:50 GMT -5
when I was doing online dating, I immediately rejected any guy who responded to me that clearly hadn't read my profile because he didn't meet my 'what I was looking for'. age, race, area, height, etc. I'm very picky but that's life. I also didn't contact guys whose criteria I didn't fit. But aren't you still single? Phoenix - I have to agree with Beergut (and Ratchets, and many others) on many of their points. You do sound like you lack confidence. I love a guy with confidence but don't go too far the other way either and come across as too arrogant. Can you pay closer attention to the guys that do have women and learn from them? Watch and learn how they interact and joke and banter. You probably don't do this but I feel compelled to mention it any way just in case. You don't list your "Why I'm a nice guy" or "Here is what I want from a mate" type things when you meet these women, do you? That would definitely cause them to balk at a second date. I know I've said this before but I sure wish you lived by me. I'm very honest to the point of hurting people's feelings sometimes but if you really wanted to be critiqued I'd be your girl. I'd also love to take you out with our group of friends just to get you to open up and laugh. An easy going guy who has confidence and can laugh is a must for most women I know or have known. I wonder - do you go to your dates with a "taking a test" type intensity? Don't look at it that way. Don't try so hard and learn to banter and smile a lot (but not to the point that you look goofy or insane ). I also agree that you should respond to those that are contacting you first. Get rid of the list! At worst it will just be practice. At best you will find your girl. This is so hard to do over the internet!
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 5, 2014 16:12:57 GMT -5
Ugh, don't get me started on profile pics. As far as I'm concerned, all internet dating profile pictures should be of you and only you.
I can't tell how many times I've seen girls post pictures of them with a whole bunch of other girls and I have no freaking idea which one is the one who wrote the profile.
Sometimes they'll say "I'm the one on the right" or some such, but usually you can't count on it.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Jun 5, 2014 16:15:30 GMT -5
I'd also get over the hating to text issue.
You message these people on a dating site. A text is just a message on a different format.
Every single successful date I've gone on, I've received a text message upon getting into my car or driving on my way home from her telling me how much she enjoyed it, and asking when we're going out next. You don't have to ask her out again right away, but let her know you had a good time and want to do it again. Texting is a good way to do this.
Also, I've been with my current GF for over 6 months. One of the things I noticed that differentiated her from others was that when we started out talking, we would text from morning until night. We'd basically wake up, and the 'good morning' text was the opening of the conversation, and the 'good night' text when we went to sleep was the end of the conversation. Because of my GF, I know the total text limit for one conversation on my phone, because within one week, I had more messages from her than anyone else on my phone.
I'm guessing from what you've written on here that you don't have any female friends. This makes things doubly hard for you, because you don't have someone outside of family (your sister) to give you the social feedback you need in your situation.
I think you need to work on learning to be friends with girls before you look at being their best friend and then a potential mate.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 5, 2014 16:16:21 GMT -5
I'll raise you photos of guys with their arm around a woman his age. Is she you gf? Your ex? Your best friend? Your sister? Yeah....I don't care to find out.
Only to be one upped by the guys who have said picture and then either blur out or scribble over her face with a photo editing software. Yup, sure makes you look attractive!
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jun 5, 2014 16:17:13 GMT -5
So, what standards are acceptable to have? How do you determine if someone is right for you? You obviously have to have some standards when deciding if your date is a good fit for you. I met my DH at work, but I NEVER would have dated him from a dating site. Never. He was "too old" for me, he smoked, and he had never gone to college. Things that would not have even had me look at his profile if it were an online dating site. Turns out he is absolutely perfect for me. Our values align, our goals for having kids and what we wanted for them aligned, we understood each other when we talked about work, things we liked to do aligned. It isn't to say we liked all the same things - he's not into sports and I am, but he'll watch them with me on occasion. I wasn't really into video games, but I would play some with him just to have fun. We both like to read, things like that. You probably aren't going to find someone who is an absolutely perfect match. Find someone who is interesting, that you enjoy spending time with, and let the minor things go. What does a degree bring to a relationship?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 5, 2014 16:18:30 GMT -5
I have passed out and now I can type again... I do not really know how to brake it to you, hiney...there IS something wrong with you. If you can't get internet dating going - we need to do something with you pronto! Or maybe you have gotten someone while this thread is going on? I don't think there is anything wrong with what he said. You have to realize girls get spammed with email on these sites, so it is really hard for a guy to stand out & get a response. Which is why he should not ignore the women that email him , he has already stood out to them. Well, I should point out I get e-mails VERY rarely, like maybe 2 or 3 a year. I get "winks" or "smiles" or something along those lines. Most girls are not forward enough to e-mail you.
Oh, and one other thing I forgot to mention, a lot of the emails I do get have extremely poor grammar and spelling. Very off putting and makes me less likely to respond. Some of them will use "text speech" or whatever it's called. Like when they mean to write you they right U.
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