Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Sept 9, 2011 17:28:42 GMT -5
Posts: 4,096
|
Post by Spellbound454 on Jun 2, 2014 17:09:17 GMT -5
Yes....Sex is never very far from the teenage boys mind.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 2, 2014 17:10:14 GMT -5
You're telling the boys not to sexualize the girls at the same time you're giving them a direct line of sight to the girls' curvaceous legs. It may come as a surprise to you that teenage boys cannot "switch off" sexual attractions to teenage girls. And they have to learn to handle sexual attraction and their own bodies. Girls shouldn't wear sweatpants so boys never get a hint of curvaceous leg. That doesn't help anyone - it just reaffirms that males are lust-ridden idiots who can't control themselves and females are responsible for how males act around them; with DNA crosses to bear because some curves are just genetic - I'm not saying you can't exercise your way to different shapes but DNA determines basic body size/hair/eye color/etc. And I've got to go, I'll see you all tomorrow. There is some ground between short shorts and burquas. As for men being lust-crazed idiots: some are. Some are going to aggressively pursue sexual attractions. Some aren't right in the head. It's a simple statistical fact that the more provocatively a girl dresses, the more likely she is to attract boys, and among them a boy she'd really rather not attract. The problem is that many people erroneously conflate prudent advice with "blaming the victim" and then further conflate blaming the victim with sexism. But you don't have to believe that it's "my fault" I was mugged in a dark alleyway to tell me that it's a bad idea to walk through a dark alleyway. The simple fact of life is that muggers lurk in dark alleyways; the mugger doesn't care about his victims. Likewise, we know that oversexed boys exist and that some of these will have no moral inhibitions. You're not doing any girl a favour by telling her that since boys oughtn't lust after a girl in sexy clothing, she can ignore the reality that some will. And your consolations that an assault or a bad relationship aren't her fault are worthless compared to advice that could prevent her from attracting unwanted attention in the first place. This doesn't mean that girls should walk around in burquas, but drawing the line at "no short shorts" is hardly a Talibanic dress code. Modesty is a virtue. Or at least it used to be.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Jun 2, 2014 17:12:20 GMT -5
Virgil Showlion - no, boys who are attracted to girls can not "just turn off" the attraction. The same goes for boys who are attracted to boys, girls who are attracted to girls, and girls who are attracted to boys. No one can just "turn off" their attraction. That is NOT the point. The point is learning how to be attracted to someone and still be able to focus on your own life or work, still be able to treat them with respect. The point is to let boys know that girls are NOT responsible for the boys' reactions. Let's look at this differently. In high school, I, and most of the girls I knew, in fact, were VERY attracted to guys in suits. Many of us joined Speech and Debate partly for that reason (or at least as a MAJOR perk). Because we were attracted to boys in suits, and could not turn off that attraction, should there have been a rule in the dress code that said boys weren't allowed to wear suits? If we had spent our day harassing Jack (because Jack was the name of one of my S&D friends), and not paying attention to our teachers, should we have been able to say "But obviously I could not concentrate on vocabulary. Did you see Jack? He was wearing a suit!" Most people would say that scenario is ridiculous. But change Jack to Jane and the suit to leggings, or shorts, or mini-skrits, and everyone is all like - oh you're right, Jane shouldn't be able to wear that. And that is not only hypocrisy, it is also a load of BS.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 2, 2014 17:12:48 GMT -5
You're telling the boys not to sexualize the girls at the same time you're giving them a direct line of sight to the girls' curvaceous legs. It may come as a surprise to you that teenage boys cannot "switch off" sexual attractions to teenage girls. Oh please, that's a load of bull and you know it. You're claiming that boys can in fact switch off sexual attractions to teenage girls?
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 2, 2014 17:14:04 GMT -5
Yes....Sex is never very far from the teenage boys mind. Oh wait. You're serious? Maybe you didn't pass notes about guys, or always talk about who is hotter or who has the better body or completely stop paying attention to the teacher when that hot guy walked into the class. Or have girls that referred to a teacher as a hottie to his face. I mean, really, girls can be just as distracted by guys as girls can. Especially at that age. None of what I'm saying is against dress code, just that if there's a dress code is needs to be the same and applied the same across the board.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 2, 2014 17:16:28 GMT -5
Oh please, that's a load of bull and you know it. You're claiming that boys can in fact switch off sexual attractions to teenage girls? To the extent that they are not so utterly and deliriously effected by shorts that the need someone to yell at them to pay attention the the teacher? Yes, I'm saying that. Boys CHOOSE to be so distracted by another person that they don't do their job/school.
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 2, 2014 17:17:43 GMT -5
Except it's not. Our brain is very much programmed to look at things that interest us. My point is that it's not specific to just the boys. Girls are programmed just like guys. Actually almost worse - pep rallies were deafening when the guys took their shirts off...way louder than when the girls came out out of dress code. Well, I have two points, in that people are perfectly capable of turning it off. Yes, even hormone fueled teenagers. Can they not always? Is it a learning process? Do they sometimes forget/choose not to turn it off? Yup. But if they could NEVER turn it off, no one would every graduate during high school. Yes, I agree with everything you said. Ability to control ourselves is what separates us. I guess I just don't understand why it needs to be made harder.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 2, 2014 17:18:03 GMT -5
And they have to learn to handle sexual attraction and their own bodies. Girls shouldn't wear sweatpants so boys never get a hint of curvaceous leg. That doesn't help anyone - it just reaffirms that males are lust-ridden idiots who can't control themselves and females are responsible for how males act around them; with DNA crosses to bear because some curves are just genetic - I'm not saying you can't exercise your way to different shapes but DNA determines basic body size/hair/eye color/etc. And I've got to go, I'll see you all tomorrow. There is some ground between short shorts and burquas. As for men being lust-crazed idiots: some are. Some are going to aggressively pursue sexual attractions. Some aren't right in the head. It's a simple statistical fact that the more provocatively a girl dresses, the more likely she is to attract boys, and among them a boy she'd really rather not attract. The problem is that many people erroneously conflate prudent advice with "blaming the victim" and then further conflate blaming the victim with sexism. But you don't have to believe that it's "my fault" I was mugged in a dark alleyway to tell me that it's a bad idea to walk through a dark alleyway. The simple fact of life is that muggers lurk in dark alleyways; the mugger doesn't care about his victims. Likewise, we know that oversexed boys exist and that some of these will have no moral inhibitions. You're not doing any girl a favour by telling her that since boys oughtn't lust after a girl in sexy clothing, she can ignore the reality that some will. And your consolations that an assault or a bad relationship aren't her fault are worthless compared to advice that could prevent her from attracting unwanted attention in the first place. This doesn't mean that girls should walk around in burquas, but drawing the line at "no short shorts" is hardly a Talibanic dress code. Modesty is a virtue. Or at least it used to be. You would tell ANYONE not to walk a dark alleyway. When was the last time you saw a guy dressed and go "whoa there, you need to tone yourself down so you're not so distracting to the females. You never know what type of attraction you'll get wearing clothes like THAT. I mean, honestly, you're totally deserve and leers or catcalls you get."
|
|
Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Sept 9, 2011 17:28:42 GMT -5
Posts: 4,096
|
Post by Spellbound454 on Jun 2, 2014 17:20:11 GMT -5
Why would you send you kids to School in something provocative anyway?
Its a School...they go there to learn and focus on their work.
As a form teacher I check the class every morning. No lipstick, discreet makeup only, discreet jewellery They walk in to their lessons prepared and ready to learn.
There's a time for short shorts at weekends...or on the beach under the supervision of their parents.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 2, 2014 17:21:53 GMT -5
The point is that a) not everyone is interested in learning to focus on their own life/work, or treating others with respect, and b) it hardly matters who's responsible for who's reaction after something bad has happened.
My interest is in preventing bad things from happening, not in living in a world where we all pretend we can walk through dark alleyways because in a perfect world everybody should be able to walk through dark alleyways.
And frankly if somebody asks you "Do you think I should walk through this dark alleyway?" and your advice is "Absolutely, it's a free country, you should be able to walk anywhere you want to.", you've given them lousy advice. May they forgive you for it if they walk through a dark alleyway and something happens. Your opining "It wasn't your fault; it wasn't your fault" won't mean jack at that point. The damage is done.
|
|
Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Sept 9, 2011 17:28:42 GMT -5
Posts: 4,096
|
Post by Spellbound454 on Jun 2, 2014 17:24:03 GMT -5
Nope, I wasn't a sex crazed teenager........my brothers on the other hand..well
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 2, 2014 17:24:57 GMT -5
There is some ground between short shorts and burquas. As for men being lust-crazed idiots: some are. Some are going to aggressively pursue sexual attractions. Some aren't right in the head. It's a simple statistical fact that the more provocatively a girl dresses, the more likely she is to attract boys, and among them a boy she'd really rather not attract. The problem is that many people erroneously conflate prudent advice with "blaming the victim" and then further conflate blaming the victim with sexism. But you don't have to believe that it's "my fault" I was mugged in a dark alleyway to tell me that it's a bad idea to walk through a dark alleyway. The simple fact of life is that muggers lurk in dark alleyways; the mugger doesn't care about his victims. Likewise, we know that oversexed boys exist and that some of these will have no moral inhibitions. You're not doing any girl a favour by telling her that since boys oughtn't lust after a girl in sexy clothing, she can ignore the reality that some will. And your consolations that an assault or a bad relationship aren't her fault are worthless compared to advice that could prevent her from attracting unwanted attention in the first place. This doesn't mean that girls should walk around in burquas, but drawing the line at "no short shorts" is hardly a Talibanic dress code. Modesty is a virtue. Or at least it used to be. You would tell ANYONE not to walk a dark alleyway. When was the last time you saw a guy dressed and go "whoa there, you need to tone yourself down so you're not so distracting to the females. You never know what type of attraction you'll get wearing clothes like THAT. I mean, honestly, you're totally deserve and leers or catcalls you get." I have 3 sons. it would be a battle of an enormous proportions if they decided to leave the house wearing pants that didn't cover their entire ass. They also would not be going to school-like places in wife-beater kind of tops. While this kind of look may be not about sexual attention, they would certainly be getting an attention in those type of outfits, in my opinion. And I, as a parent, would not want that.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 2, 2014 17:25:56 GMT -5
You're claiming that boys can in fact switch off sexual attractions to teenage girls? To the extent that they are not so utterly and deliriously effected by shorts that the need someone to yell at them to pay attention the the teacher? Yes, I'm saying that. Boys CHOOSE to be so distracted by another person that they don't do their job/school. Of course boys choose to act on a sexual attraction or not. I'm saying the attraction is innate, not the choice on how to manage it. I'm also saying that not all boys (in fact, it seems fewer and fewer as time goes on) have the slightest interest in choosing not to act on sexual attractions, and most of these couldn't give a toot what you want to teach them on the subject. That advice means nothing to them. Correct. And if the school has a ban on muscle shirts or short shorts for boys or whatever, I'm perfectly fine with that. If some guy starts putting up posters demanding short shorts for men: shut him down.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 18:29:10 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 17:33:39 GMT -5
We have a/c so dress code has nothing to do with temperatures.
Dress code violations are as distracting to the girls as they are the guys. I'm not talking about hairy armpits. I'm talking about girls who are so concerned that they are dressed to please the guys that they can't focus on school stuff.
No girl really wears short shorts and low-cut tank tops to please herself or even her female friends. She wears them because she wants to attract guys' attention. If she really doesn't care, she is a regular tee-shirt and jeans. I'm not saying that she is "responsible" for guys' reactions. They are 100% responsible. But let's not pretend that she's wearing them for herself and only herself.
Boys have their own sexist rules. Ours can't have earrings, for example. There is this huge poster of Shakespeare, and he has an earring. But guys can't have them.
We make everyone stand during 1st period for an inspection. It is ironic that every time I question a girl's choice, she has another tee-shirt as a backup. So she knew there would be a question . . . ?
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 2, 2014 17:47:07 GMT -5
Phoenix84 - you just contradicted yourself there. What about shorts makes them not appropriate to a learning environment? Does the length of the shorts someone is wearing have any impact on their intelligence or on their ability to learn? Or is your argument that the length of her shorts has an impact on the BOYS' ability to learn? By claiming that she has to dress a certain way in order for boys to behave appropriately, you are making the girl responsible for their behavior. That is EXACTLY what rape culture and victim blaming are about. It is NOT a far stretch from "Well of course the boys couldn't concentrate on the lecture, did you see the short shorts she was wearing" to "Well of course the boy thought that no meant yes, did you see the short shorts she was wearing." And the process is NOT just damaging to girls. It is damaging to boys as well. At the same time we are telling girls they have to be responsible for how boys act, we are telling boys that they are not capable of controlling their own behavior. Behavior is irrelevent. Inappropriate behavior, regardless of whatever form that might take, is not okay regardless of what's being worn. The problem is the distraction it can cause in class. It's the school's job to create an enviornment that is conducive to learning. Having a bunch of girls running around mostly naked is going to be distracting to most boys. Basically what you're saying is that boys being attracted to girls if an optional behavior that one can just switch off and switch on at will, and it's a boy's job to do that at school. But the fact is people can't control what they lust after. I would assume you agree with this fact. Behavior is one thing, and I agree that girls shouldn't be made responsible for boy's behavior, but on the other hand you can't expect people, especially a teenage boy swimming in hormones, to just not notice or at least get distracted by a pretty, mostly naked girl. I answered your question, so where's one for you. So are you proposing that there should be no dress code? Is it all just a concotion of an oudated culteral ideal? Where should we draw the line? As Virgil pointed out, why shouldn't a guy be able to wear a speedo to work or school? What about wearing a bikini to school? Should that be acceptable? Or hell, why not go all the way and just make clothing optional for school/work. Seriously, why do you think dress codes exist?
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,912
|
Post by zibazinski on Jun 2, 2014 17:59:19 GMT -5
Dress codes exist because parents stopped parenting. Both my kids tried to pull shit in regards to dress. Kids will try that. But I'm the freaking parent and they dress appropriately for school. If you see a girl dressed like a streetwalker, there's no decent parental model of any kind. Same with a boy.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 2, 2014 18:14:05 GMT -5
1) I haven't been arguing against a dress code. I just am against any one that uses distracting as a reasoning or that doesn't have across the board rules. School is children's job and most jobs have dress codes. Is the dress code at your work for females so the men won't be distracted and can do their work? No. And if it is I wouldn't work there. If girls can't wear tank tops than neither can boys. If you can't see any of the girls torso than you can't see any of the guys. Plain and simple. 2) Wearing shorts and a tank top is not mostly naked. I'll stop there lest I cross a line. 3) TEENAGERS are swimming in hormones. Not just boys, not just girls, the both of them! Just as there are guys that weren't affected by them there are girls too, but the majority of teenagers are just as lust-filled as the next one regardless of sex. Seriously - has anyone ever (besides SS that acknowledged) heard of someone telling a boy to cover it up or not wear something because girls were distracted?? Not that I ever encountered. They probably pegged girls not paying attention because they were in lala land of their perfect fairytale. 4) Attraction is innate to both males and females. 5) And what do you check on the guys? 6) I can't believe you said this. Ok, from you I kind of can based on your previous posts, but SERIOUSLY? It ALWAYS matter's who is responsible when something bad happens. Always, always, always. The personal that does something bad/horrible/reprehensible/criminal is always the one at fault and always responsible because the CHOSE to do that bad thing. It doesn't matter if I took your hand that was holding a gun and put it up to my head, it is all your fault if you chose to pull the trigger.
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 2, 2014 18:17:07 GMT -5
Virgil is right. Responding to any inappropriate behavior of a man towards a woman with anything other than sympathy for the "victem" is labled as "blaming the victem."
If I take my car to the bad part of town and leave it there with the door open and the keys inside and walk away, what do you think will happen? When my car gets stoelen am I a victem of car theft? Yes I am. Should it have happened? No, it shouldn't have. But was I an idiot for doing what I did? Absolutely.
Furthermore, because someone stole my car, does that mean that everyone in the world, or even in that neighborhood is a car thief? No it doesn't. I'm sure at least some people walked by and ignored it, knowing it was wrong and exercising self control. But sooner or later, if you present the opportunity, someone will come by and not have the self control and will do the deed.
The same logic could be applied to dress. Teenage girls dressing inapporpriately and attracting attention doesn't mean all the boys have no self control and can't focus on their school work, and really, most probably would manage. But there's always a few out there who might be more distracted than others, and who might not be so concerned with restraint and morals.
Anyways, this is mostly an off topic debate. As I said, I don't think anyone is responsible for anyone else's behavior but their own.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 2, 2014 18:23:13 GMT -5
Virgil is right. Responding to any inappropriate behavior of a man towards a woman with anything other than sympathy for the "victem" is labled as "blaming the victem." If I take my car to the bad part of town and leave it there with the door open and the keys inside and walk away, what do you think will happen? When my car gets stoelen am I a victem of car theft? Yes I am. Should it have happened? No, it shouldn't have. But was I an idiot for doing what I did? Absolutely. Furthermore, because someone stole my car, does that mean that everyone in the world, or even in that neighborhood is a car thief? No it doesn't. I'm sure at least some people walked by and ignored it, knowing it was wrong and exercising self control. But sooner or later, if you present the opportunity, someone will come by and not have the self control and will do the deed. The same logic could be applied to dress. Teenage girls dressing inapporpriately and attracting attention doesn't mean all the boys have no self control and can't focus on their school work, and really, most probably would manage. But there's always a few out there who might be more distracted than others, and who might not be so concerned with restraint and morals. When was the last time you or you heard someone say a man was attacked because of what he was wearing. Not where he was, or what he was doing, but simply because of what he was wearing he should have expected for him to be attacked? Also, when was the last time you said or heard that ___ was unsafe for a guy to go there? Not a guy or a girl. Just a guy. That a girl would be safe going there alone, but a guy would not.
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 2, 2014 18:26:20 GMT -5
And because I believe this deserves its on post so it's seen:
I have been catcalled at when I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt. Wearing jeans and a wool jacket. In sweats, without makeup and my hair pulled back because it's sucking that day.
I have also been hit on no matter what I'm wearing. Including being hit on in a gross way or hit up for sex.
It doesn't matter HOW I dress, or what I DO these guys still do that. Whether I am dress "appropriately" or not they STILL do this. WHAT YOU WEAR DOES NOT STOP THEM.
|
|
The Captain
Junior Associate
Hugs are good...
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
Posts: 8,717
Location: State of confusion
Favorite Drink: Whinnnne
|
Post by The Captain on Jun 2, 2014 18:30:04 GMT -5
Ok, I just stood up and put my hands at my side to see what the "line" was. It's pretty high. I'm 5 foot 6 inches and have been this height since I was around 14-15. The girl is in 11th grade, which means she's about 16, give or take. So, if I went shopping at the teen stores, would I actually FIND short or skirts that fit these requirements? Weren't we talking about this last week on the thread about feeding a growing girl? That finding clothing is not always easy? And there was a story fairly recently (April maybe?) about a protest for girls wearing leggings to school - because the school at one point was claiming that the girls wearing leggings were a distraction to the boys learning. I think the school's restated their stance since then. (waves arms madly) ohh, ohh - that was me!!! I normally shop for DD at Kohl's. Now that's she's getting into slutsville junior sizes I have to change stores. I was SHOCKED at what they have hanging on the racks in the Jr.'s dept. Just for grins and giggles I had her try on one pair of shorts that I knew wouldn't pass muster. She would not even come out of the dressing room to show it to me. -pray-Man do I hope this modesty lasts!
|
|
Phoenix84
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 17, 2011 21:42:35 GMT -5
Posts: 10,056
|
Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 2, 2014 18:30:18 GMT -5
Virgil is right. Responding to any inappropriate behavior of a man towards a woman with anything other than sympathy for the "victem" is labled as "blaming the victem." If I take my car to the bad part of town and leave it there with the door open and the keys inside and walk away, what do you think will happen? When my car gets stoelen am I a victem of car theft? Yes I am. Should it have happened? No, it shouldn't have. But was I an idiot for doing what I did? Absolutely. Furthermore, because someone stole my car, does that mean that everyone in the world, or even in that neighborhood is a car thief? No it doesn't. I'm sure at least some people walked by and ignored it, knowing it was wrong and exercising self control. But sooner or later, if you present the opportunity, someone will come by and not have the self control and will do the deed. The same logic could be applied to dress. Teenage girls dressing inapporpriately and attracting attention doesn't mean all the boys have no self control and can't focus on their school work, and really, most probably would manage. But there's always a few out there who might be more distracted than others, and who might not be so concerned with restraint and morals. When was the last time you or you heard someone say a man was attacked because of what he was wearing. Not where he was, or what he was doing, but simply because of what he was wearing he should have expected for him to be attacked? Also, when was the last time you said or heard that ___ was unsafe for a guy to go there? Not a guy or a girl. Just a guy. That a girl would be safe going there alone, but a guy would not. Personally? Never. But then again I have never personally experienced the opposite either. I don't personally know any women who have been attacked, for what they wore or otherwise. As far as going places, the same. But I have always lived in fairly safe areas and not been that concerned about my personal safety. Anyways, as I said, we're getting off topic of dress codes and should and why they exist. Based on what you're saying, the distraction argument doesn't hold water, and school dress codes only exist because work dress codes exist. Then why do work dress codes exist?
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 2, 2014 18:36:29 GMT -5
When was the last time you or you heard someone say a man was attacked because of what he was wearing. Not where he was, or what he was doing, but simply because of what he was wearing he should have expected for him to be attacked? Also, when was the last time you said or heard that ___ was unsafe for a guy to go there? Not a guy or a girl. Just a guy. That a girl would be safe going there alone, but a guy would not. Personally? Never. But then again I have never personally experienced the opposite either. I don't personally know any women who have been attacked, for what they wore or otherwise.As far as going places, the same. But I have always lived in fairly safe areas and not been that concerned about my personal safety. Anyways, as I said, we're getting off topic of dress codes and should and why they exist. Based on what you're saying, the distraction argument doesn't hold water, and school dress codes only exist because work dress codes exist. Then why do work dress codes exist? No, I'm saying it shouldn't because the distraction put it on girls that they and what they wear are responsible for boys actions. Unless someone tells me otherwise, I've always thought they existed because at some point along the line being dressed up became what professionals did. It probably started back when guys always wore suits to work. So when females started entering the professional work force the dressed similarly. Either in suits themselves or similarly covered. And then the different levels evolved from there. I've never been in a job where shorts are ok for men, but not for women. The dress is across the same for both genders, just slightly modified due to females having the option of wearing skirts/dresses. As for the bold. Do you know any women that HAVE been attacked? And if so have you heard what other people have said about that night? Here's a thought process for you - you hear about a woman getting attacked, raped and beaten. What is the very first question that pops into your head? Not the first question you would be ok with uttering out lout, but the very first question you have about the situation?
|
|
The Captain
Junior Associate
Hugs are good...
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
Posts: 8,717
Location: State of confusion
Favorite Drink: Whinnnne
|
Post by The Captain on Jun 2, 2014 18:44:32 GMT -5
GAWD, this is one thing I will really miss about DD going to a private school. At least with uniforms you knew where you stood.
And in response to some other posts...when I see young women wearing skimpy clothes that they are constantly tugging at trying to get more coverage I really have to wonder...they obviously are not wearing those clothes for comfort. WHY would you put something on that you're constantly tugging at?
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 2, 2014 18:46:50 GMT -5
Oooh! I have a question for Virgil or Phoenix. It's a couple parter, but you need to respond to get the next part.
When you are out at night with a friends - one female and another male. It's at the end of the evening and you all have parked in opposite directions. And, for arguments sake, the other male just wants to go straight to his car. Do you a) part ways with everyone and the exit of the establishment or b) walk the female to her car?
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,912
|
Post by zibazinski on Jun 2, 2014 18:53:15 GMT -5
I'd pick whose ever car was closer and walk to that one and drive the other party to their car. Guys get attacked too.
|
|
whoisjohngalt
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 14:12:07 GMT -5
Posts: 9,140
|
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 2, 2014 18:55:25 GMT -5
We've debated this issue to such extent that we could probably write each other's posts at this point.
I am finding quite disturbing that our society is becoming very intolerant to any point of view that is not "in" at the moment. And this topic is no exception.
People who are saying that men are to blame completely exonerate women of any kind of responsibility. There doesn't seem to be any balance for that side of the argument.
BTW, I am a heterosexual woman who has never had any kind of lesbian tendencies or fantasies and yet I would find very distracting if I had to constantly look at women's body parts that should be covered. I worked with one of those women. Wasn't fun at all.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 9, 2024 18:29:10 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 18:55:31 GMT -5
We have a/c so dress code has nothing to do with temperatures.
Dress code violations are as distracting to the girls as they are the guys. I'm not talking about hairy armpits. I'm talking about girls who are so concerned that they are dressed to please the guys that they can't focus on school stuff.
No girl really wears short shorts and low-cut tank tops to please herself or even her female friends. She wears them because she wants to attract guys' attention. If she really doesn't care, she is a regular tee-shirt and jeans. I'm not saying that she is "responsible" for guys' reactions. They are 100% responsible. But let's not pretend that she's wearing them for herself and only herself.
? [/quote] I completely disagree with this as a blanket statement of all girls motivations. If true, I would put it at a minority. [/quote][/p]
I'm having trouble differentiating this from your comment so I will italicize it.
If the girl isn't wearing short shorts and low-cut tank tops to attract guys' attention, why is she wearing it in a school that is air-conditioned? My girls always complain about how cold it is. I laugh, and they put on something warmer.
But please tell me your theory as to why they chose this clothing. It's not to be "cool" in the sense of temperature.
|
|
The Captain
Junior Associate
Hugs are good...
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
Posts: 8,717
Location: State of confusion
Favorite Drink: Whinnnne
|
Post by The Captain on Jun 2, 2014 18:55:37 GMT -5
1) I haven't been arguing against a dress code. I just am against any one that uses distracting as a reasoning or that doesn't have across the board rules. School is children's job and most jobs have dress codes. Is the dress code at your work for females so the men won't be distracted and can do their work? No. And if it is I wouldn't work there. If girls can't wear tank tops than neither can boys. If you can't see any of the girls torso than you can't see any of the guys. Plain and simple. 2) Wearing shorts and a tank top is not mostly naked. I'll stop there lest I cross a line. 3) TEENAGERS are swimming in hormones. Not just boys, not just girls, the both of them! Just as there are guys that weren't affected by them there are girls too, but the majority of teenagers are just as lust-filled as the next one regardless of sex. Seriously - has anyone ever (besides SS that acknowledged) heard of someone telling a boy to cover it up or not wear something because girls were distracted?? Not that I ever encountered. They probably pegged girls not paying attention because they were in lala land of their perfect fairytale. 4) Attraction is innate to both males and females. 5) And what do you check on the guys? 6) I can't believe you said this. Ok, from you I kind of can based on your previous posts, but SERIOUSLY? It ALWAYS matter's who is responsible when something bad happens. Always, always, always. The personal that does something bad/horrible/reprehensible/criminal is always the one at fault and always responsible because the CHOSE to do that bad thing. It doesn't matter if I took your hand that was holding a gun and put it up to my head, it is all your fault if you chose to pull the trigger. Same thing - apply it equally. When I was in HS the whole goth thing was just getting off ground. I knew a few guys who wore more makeup then I did. I had two deal breakers when dating in HS, I wouldn't go out with a dude if they had longer hair or wore more makeup than I did. The same rule could be used to make guys remove gauge earrings, nose rings, etc. I could be a bit of a stinker and point out your gender bias by thinking this couldn't apply to the male half of the species...
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jun 2, 2014 18:59:41 GMT -5
The question was to Spell who only listed out dress code type things that usually only apply to girls that she checks every morning. So I was wondering what things that usually only apply to boys that she checks every morning.
|
|