Self defense or murder?

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2014 9:37:48 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 23, 2014 9:30:50 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

I don't think this guy resembles anything reasonable. But I don't see any reason that I am obligated to make my house look occupied while gone to ensure people don't rob me. Nothing he did should have enticed anyone to enter his home. However...if they only entered unoccupied homes they had no intent to harm anyone.

For years upon end, homeowners and renters have been warned by the police and insurance companies to make their homes look occupied if they are away. It has been a fact of life (at least here in the U.S.) for years.

That does not mean I am responsible for people breaking into my house if it looks like I am out.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 23, 2014 9:41:19 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 23, 2014 9:37:48 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

For years upon end, homeowners and renters have been warned by the police and insurance companies to make their homes look occupied if they are away. It has been a fact of life (at least here in the U.S.) for years.

That does not mean I am responsible for people breaking into my house if it looks like I am out.

No you are not responsible. But why make your home inviting to burglars?

[mmhmm]

Here's an article from back in February of this year.  It looks like the Brady kid was quite the thief, if the words of other teens who knew him and some of whom were a part of what had been going on can be taken as true.  It also appears Mr. Smith thought the girl (Kiver) was someone else (neighbor's daughter).  There's no indication she'd been involved prior to this incident.  The only burglary that was reported was one on October 27 (I think that was the date), but the other teens are indicating Brady was the culprit.  I can find nothing to indicate Brady was ever arrested, however.  Two of the peripherally involved teens were.  Gotta wonder why.

Morrison County Record

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2014 9:42:54 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 23, 2014 9:41:19 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

That does not mean I am responsible for people breaking into my house if it looks like I am out.

No you are not responsible. But why make your home inviting to burglars?

We are talking about responsibility here. And the point is that he is not responsible for them breaking in, even if it looked like he wasn't home.

[Virgil Showlion]

Apr 23, 2014 8:54:30 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

This man elected himself judge and jury over two human kids...and executed them with great relish.

Smith used a gun, actually. You're thinking of the Seattle "Condiment Killer" back from 1998.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2014 9:45:38 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Here's an article from back in February of this year.  It looks like the Brady kid was quite the thief, if the words of other teens who knew him and some of whom were a part of what had been going on can be taken as true.  It also appears Mr. Smith thought the girl (Kiver) was someone else (neighbor's daughter).  There's no indication she'd been involved prior to this incident.  The only burglary that was reported was one on October 27 (I think that was the date), but the other teens are indicating Brady was the culprit.  I can find nothing to indicate Brady was ever arrested, however.  Two of the peripherally involved teens were.  Gotta wonder why.

Morrison County Record

That kid was pretty persistently victimizing Smith.

[zibazinski]

Well, it could be argued that I SET a TRAP for Dfs ex by arming myself with a gun. If so, I freely admit it. The court let her off from breaking and entering and even stealing because she was "mentally ill." Okay, so be it. But if she ever comes here again, her mentally ill excuse won't be necessary.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2014 9:53:10 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Apr 23, 2014 8:54:30 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

This man elected himself judge and jury over two human kids...and executed them with great relish.

Smith used a gun, actually. You're thinking of the Seattle "Condiment Killer" back from 1998.

Oh that's bad!

[Tennesseer]

Apr 23, 2014 9:47:10 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 23, 2014 9:42:54 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

No you are not responsible. But why make your home inviting to burglars?

We are talking about responsibility here. And the point is that he is not responsible for them breaking in, even if it looked like he wasn't home.

I don't believe I said Smith was responsible for the break-in. The two dead youths are responsible for the break-in. 

I simply offered general advice on how to make your home look occupied while away. Having had my own home broken into years ago, I learned it was best to make it look occupied while I was gone.  No problems since that event (18 years ago).

In the city where I live, burglaries are unfortunately a very big problem here.  In 2012, the last reporting year, there were 12,575 home burglaries. 

[mmhmm]

Apr 23, 2014 9:54:25 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 23, 2014 9:45:38 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Here's an article from back in February of this year.  It looks like the Brady kid was quite the thief, if the words of other teens who knew him and some of whom were a part of what had been going on can be taken as true.  It also appears Mr. Smith thought the girl (Kiver) was someone else (neighbor's daughter).  There's no indication she'd been involved prior to this incident.  The only burglary that was reported was one on October 27 (I think that was the date), but the other teens are indicating Brady was the culprit.  I can find nothing to indicate Brady was ever arrested, however.  Two of the peripherally involved teens were.  Gotta wonder why.

Morrison County Record

That kid was pretty persistently victimizing Smith.

It sure appears that way, if the kids accusing him can be believed. 

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2014 9:58:55 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 23, 2014 9:47:10 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

We are talking about responsibility here. And the point is that he is not responsible for them breaking in, even if it looked like he wasn't home.

I don't believe I said Smith was responsible for the break-in. The two dead youths are responsible for the break-in. 

I simply offered general advice on how to make your home look occupied while away. Having had my own home broken into years ago, I learned it was best to make it look occupied while I was gone.  No problems since that event (18 years ago).

In the city where I live, burglaries are unfortunately a very big problem here.  In 2012, the last reporting year, there were 12,575 home burglaries. 

Then why did you disagree with my post 151?

[billisonboard]

Apr 23, 2014 9:47:10 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 23, 2014 9:42:54 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

No you are not responsible. But why make your home inviting to burglars?

We are talking about responsibility here. And the point is that he is not responsible for them breaking in, even if it looked like he wasn't home.

He is also not responsible for them breaking in if he took deliberate steps to make it look like he wasn't home. If they were still alive, they should still be found guilty of breaking and entering (or whatever appropriate charges).

This thread, and the trial, is about his responsibility for the actions which he chose to take.

[Deleted]

Apr 23, 2014 10:04:21 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Apr 23, 2014 9:47:10 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

We are talking about responsibility here. And the point is that he is not responsible for them breaking in, even if it looked like he wasn't home.

He is also not responsible for them breaking in if he took deliberate steps to make it look like he wasn't home. If they were still alive, they should still be found guilty of breaking and entering (or whatever appropriate charges).

This thread, and the trial, is about his responsibility for the actions which he chose to take.

I know. Some people were saying that he set a trap for them and that is to be taken into account when deciding his responsibility. I am refuting that.

[billisonboard]

Apr 23, 2014 10:06:35 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 23, 2014 10:04:21 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

He is also not responsible for them breaking in if he took deliberate steps to make it look like he wasn't home. If they were still alive, they should still be found guilty of breaking and entering (or whatever appropriate charges).

This thread, and the trial, is about his responsibility for the actions which he chose to take.

I know. Some people were saying that he set a trap for them and that is to be taken into account when deciding his responsibility. I am refuting that.

And I am refuting your argument that you are using in that refuting.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 23, 2014 10:02:22 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 23, 2014 9:58:55 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I don't believe I said Smith was responsible for the break-in. The two dead youths are responsible for the break-in. 

I simply offered general advice on how to make your home look occupied while away. Having had my own home broken into years ago, I learned it was best to make it look occupied while I was gone.  No problems since that event (18 years ago).

In the city where I live, burglaries are unfortunately a very big problem here.  In 2012, the last reporting year, there were 12,575 home burglaries. 

Then why did you disagree with my post 151?

I don't see that I necessarily disagreed with your post but if you think I did, then I will say I speak from experience having had my home once burglarized. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 23, 2014 9:58:55 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 23, 2014 9:47:10 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

We are talking about responsibility here. And the point is that he is not responsible for them breaking in, even if it looked like he wasn't home.

I don't believe I said Smith was responsible for the break-in. The two dead youths are responsible for the break-in. 

I simply offered general advice on how to make your home look occupied while away. Having had my own home broken into years ago, I learned it was best to make it look occupied while I was gone.  No problems since that event (18 years ago).

In the city where I live, burglaries are unfortunately a very big problem here.  In 2012, the last reporting year, there were 12,575 home burglaries. 

I've been robbed twice, both times I was out of town.  Both times, I had someone regularly coming to my home to turn lights on/off and feed the cats.  Both times, I tried to leave a radio and lights on to make it looked lived in.  I was still robbed, and once the narcotics in my medicine cabinet went with the rest of the goodies too.

I was more pissed about the meds than anything.  They were more difficult to replace than 'stuff'.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

According to the link posted below, Smith did NOT know whether those kids that broke into his house were armed or unarmed, especially since they had stolen a gun of his earlier.

A Little Falls teen, charged with second and third degree aiding and abetting Nick Brady in a burglary at the home of Byron Smith, appeared in Morrison County Court Tuesday. Another teen was charged in December 2012 for possessing a gun stolen from Smith’s home.

[resolution]

My house was broken into while I was at work. They watched me leave the house to drive to work and then broke in and helped themselves.

[Sam_2.0]

I think he set a trap for them when he purposefully hid in the basement to wait for them to come down. I would get the heck out of there if I had enough time to do that, or make enough noise that they knew I was there and hopefully run away. If they chose to pursue him after they knew he was home, then that's one thing. I guess in the flight or fight response I got flight if at all possible. Penning himself in to trap them could have just as easily turned on him if they were armed. And why the heck the girl came down after she heard the first several shots is beyond me. I would have gotten the hell out of there. Then again, I wouldn't have broken in to begin with.

[mmhmm]

Apr 23, 2014 11:47:18 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

According to the link posted below, Smith did NOT know whether those kids that broke into his house were armed or unarmed, especially since they had stolen a gun of his earlier.

A Little Falls teen, charged with second and third degree aiding and abetting Nick Brady in a burglary at the home of Byron Smith, appeared in Morrison County Court Tuesday. Another teen was charged in December 2012 for possessing a gun stolen from Smith’s home.

He could have been pretty darned sure once they were on the floor with bullets in them, I'd think.  Additionally, while there's evidence that Brady had stolen from Smith before, there is no such evidence regarding the girl Smith killed.  While she should not have been there, it's not accurate to say "those kids" had stolen a gun belonging to him.  Brady?  Yes.  The  girl.  No.

[EVT1]

And the plot thickens:

     On the part played Wednesday, Smith was heard saying, "They weren't human. I don't see them as human. I see them as vermin."

     Also Wednesday, authorities who searched Smith's home after the killings testified that they found an operating surveillance system and a cellphone jamming device along with the audio recorder.

     Bennett also testified that he saw a DVR recorder on a workbench in the room where the teens' bodies were found. He said he turned on the monitor and saw that the four cameras it was connected to were operating. Upstairs in the kitchen, Bennett said, he found a device designed to block incoming and outgoing cellphone calls. He said he tested it and it worked.

www.cbsnews.com/news/minn-homeowner-2-teens-shot-were-vermin-not-human/

[mmhmm]

Ick!  The more information that comes out on this mess, the grislier it gets!

[Virgil Showlion]

Apr 23, 2014 18:10:14 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

And the plot thickens:

     On the part played Wednesday, Smith was heard saying, "They weren't human. I don't see them as human. I see them as vermin."

     Also Wednesday, authorities who searched Smith's home after the killings testified that they found an operating surveillance system and a cellphone jamming device along with the audio recorder.

     Bennett also testified that he saw a DVR recorder on a workbench in the room where the teens' bodies were found. He said he turned on the monitor and saw that the four cameras it was connected to were operating. Upstairs in the kitchen, Bennett said, he found a device designed to block incoming and outgoing cellphone calls. He said he tested it and it worked.

www.cbsnews.com/news/minn-homeowner-2-teens-shot-were-vermin-not-human/

It seems like he's going through the trial as a matter of pride. He wants the world to know how meticulous and thorough he was in ensuring his enemies would have no escape.

I guess he figured if he was going to go to jail either way, he might as well make a good show of it.

[mmhmm]

Dem dar warn't no eminies!  Dem wuz vermin!  Vermin, I tells ya!

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Whenever we were going to be away from the home for travel/vacations, etc - we had family/friends come in to feed pets, but we also had timers on the lights/radio, tv, etc. We could set what time of day/night for them to come on or turn off. The timers were set randomly. A bedroom light or two would come on in the morning/evening, lamps in family room and/or living room in evening coming on then shutting off around midnight, etc.

We also had a monitored security system too though - with sensors on entrance ways/doors and windows.

[Virgil Showlion]

Apr 23, 2014 18:54:35 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dem dar warn't no eminies!  Dem wuz vermin!  Vermin, I tells ya!

Which we know because the man taped himself saying it and then practically handed it to the prosecutors along with a slew of other evidence to prove his contempt for the thieves.

With all his preparation and his plain willingness to exhibit all elements of the crime, including the audio record of his state of mind, it's proof enough to me that he had no expectation--possibly even no willingness--to stay out of jail. He wants to make a statement. He hated the thieves, he let them fall into his perfect trap, and he executed them with "great relish", as Spellbound so eloquently put it.

In a sense, we're glorifying him in this thread by pondering his motives and his methods. Before the killing, he was nobody. A helpless old man whose property kept getting stolen. Now he's known widely as the man who executed the thieves who wronged him. He'll live on as a minor legend, like Marvin Heemeyer or Andrew Kehoe. Fame or infamy makes no difference to him.

[mmhmm]

Apr 23, 2014 19:34:59 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Apr 23, 2014 18:54:35 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dem dar warn't no eminies!  Dem wuz vermin!  Vermin, I tells ya!

Which we know because the man taped himself saying it and then practically handed it to the prosecutors along with a slew of other evidence to prove his contempt for the thieves.

With all his preparation and his plain willingness to exhibit all elements of the crime, including the audio record of his state of mind, it's proof enough to me that he had no expectation--possibly even no willingness--to stay out of jail. He wants to make a statement. He hated the thieves, he let them fall into his perfect trap, and he executed them with "great relish", as Spellbound so eloquently put it.

In a sense, we're glorifying him in this thread by pondering his motives and his methods. Before the killing, he was nobody. A helpless old man whose property kept getting stolen. Now he's known widely as the man who executed the thieves who wronged him. He'll live on as a minor legend, like Marvin Heemeyer or Andrew Kehoe. Fame or infamy makes no difference to him.

That may well be, Virgil.  I also may be he's a little off in la cabeza.

[Shooby]

Ok I am watching this now on Nancy Grace. This guy is a whack job. He shot them and didn't call the authority until the next day?

[Shooby]

He shot them both twice. He shot the girl then dragged her to s tarp and said "you are dying bitch" then shot her in the head with a "clean shot".

[Tennesseer]

Apparently Smith believed revenge is dish best served very cold.