New Proboards offering. Thoughts?

[moon/Laura]

New Proboards offering. Thoughts?

Proboards has come out with a new model for their forums. It's optional, of course, and is a paid service called forums.net. Most of what it offers really isn't anything we would be concerned with. The things that you *would* notice are:

No Proboards branding, anywhere
Ad free
no PG13 restriction
No global login system

The fees they charge are based on page views per month. Depending on whether I'm looking at google analytics or the Proboards analytics tool, we get anywhere between 846,000 to 1.5 million views a month, which means we would have to go with the Small Business plan they offer for $150/ month. That allows for 1,250,000 pageviews, with each 1000 additional views costing .10 cents.

Now, obviously, $150/month is a chunk of change, and we would have to have some sort fund or something to pay it out of. I have no thoughts about how much a "contribution" should be at this point, other than we need to make sure that we always have a month's worth of fees in the fund.

It's also important to note that we would have to commit to a minimum of 6 months. This site would cease to exist, as we would be moving over to a forums.net url. If we decided not to continue with it after that 6 months, I can download a full copy of our database (which would effectively be a copy of our board), but it's not yet been made clear if we could then ask Proboards to re-import it back into a free site. If we could, then it wouldn't be this same url we have now because even though the old site wouldn't exist anymore, they won't let you re-use the name.

Bottom line, there are both risks and benefits. I am not about to make any sort of decision about it without everyone's input. Please vote in the poll so we can all get a feel for what people might want.

[moon/Laura]

OK, I see the poll question actually formatted as a response.. lol. Ignore that top line as a choice, please.

[Deleted]

It is free. Keep it free as long as possible. Please.

[moon/Laura]

If you read my first post, you'll see where I said it was OPTIONAL.

there have been many who've complained about the pg13 requirement, specifically, and that is the main reason I would ever even consider it.

[mollyanna58]

I like the PG requirement. I really don't care for foul language.  

[moon/Laura]

The pg13 content doesn't have much to do with language. it's more about the sexual aspect. our CoC currently states that you can cuss, provided it's not just one never ending stream of expletives.

[mollyanna58]

I'm fine with PG13 for all aspects, then.

[moon/Laura]

Thank you for the input.

[Shooby]

Yes. I like Free as well. Not sure I am going to give out my credit card info to Proboards.

[Deleted]

Apr 19, 2014 11:28:16 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

If you read my first post, you'll see where I said it was OPTIONAL.

there have been many who've complained about the pg13 requirement, specifically, and that is the main reason I would ever even consider it.

Why are you yelling at me?  

I gave you my opinion, which is a request to keep it free like it is now.

Optional move is what I read and understood, but you would be migrating the whole board for a minimum of 6 months paid service IF there was interest in doing it. 

I guess I don't understand what is restrictive about PG13. What kind of convos do people have that MUST include sex, violence or nasty photos? Can you do a separate thread asking what topics do people want to cover that they can't under current rules?

You have complained about whether you even want to maintain this board, so unless a paid service gave you some extras like administration or moderation support, I don't know why a paid service would make sense. I would pay a subscription to support the admin of the board because it is a large commitment for a very small group. I would not pay to make it become an X rated board.

Maybe the question(s) should be how much would you be willing to pay as an annual fee to join this board as it is today & how much would you pay if the PG13 rules were removed. 

[mollyc]

My experience with paid service forums has been that, unless the administrators are able and willing to carry the cost and willing to chase people, eventually they have to close.  Perhaps the members interested in PG13 could band together to set up a separate forum.

[Virgil Showlion]

Member donations would be to a PayPal account, most likely.

As for the benefits, the two main ones would be greater autonomy (including removal of ads and looser content restrictions, as Moon indicates) and a likely improvement in board visibility and search engine rankings, which could improve board traffic and "new blood" coming in.

I believe it would also be possible to get addresses on our current site to redirect to the new site.

Given the poll results thus far, however, I'm not seeing a whole lot of enthusiasm.

[JustLurkin]

I like things the way they are, but would pay a nominal fee/donation if we were to switch over.

[moon/Laura]

Apr 19, 2014 12:46:06 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

Why are you yelling at me?  

I'm not yelling at you. i emphasized one word, based on the fact you said i should keep it free as long as i could. that implied to me that you might have missed that part.

Apr 19, 2014 12:46:06 GMT -5 @lillylake said:

I guess I don't understand what is restrictive about PG13. What kind of convos do people have that MUST include sex, violence or nasty photos? Can you do a separate thread asking what topics do people want to cover that they can't under current rules?

you haven't been here all that long, lily, so you haven't the history of the board that others do. if you had, you would know of the many battles that have taken place here over pg13 restrictions. and, believe it or not, there ARE legitimate conversations that could occur where you might reasonably go past it. then there are those who do it on purpose, either outright or by making leading statements. quite honestly, i feel like we're all adults here and i don't appreciate having to parent content. that's not to say i'm interest in a board that features XXX content. i'm not. and i would be restricting nsfw content to a separate category if it happened at all.

Apr 19, 2014 13:22:00 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Moon, obviously this is in the exploratory stage, but have you given any thoughts on how people would contribute?  Would it be directly to the site, PayPal, something else? 

Would we be governed by some of the more draconian PB rules, I'm thinking of the instances where disgruntled members complain to PB and they threaten to shut us down. (Not that I want the board to become the Wild West, but a little less evil overlord might be nice). 

I haven't voted yet, because I think there will be some good questions posed that I haven't thought of. 

sroo, I haven't given the "how" a ton of thought yet, simply because i suspect it may be a moot point. they don't accept pay pal, so if i used a paypal account i would have to link my own debit card to it for the purposes of payment. as far as the disgruntled posters scenario, the forums.net ToS basically says any content is allowed, provided it

does not include any content that infringes on any third party's intellectual property or publicity/privacy rights, does not violate any applicable law or regulation, and does not contain any harmful material, such as viruses, Trojan horses, worms, time bombs, cancel bots, or other computer programming routines that are intended to damage or interfere with any system, data, or personal information.

[mmhmm]

Apr 19, 2014 13:22:00 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Moon, obviously this is in the exploratory stage, but have you given any thoughts on how people would contribute?  Would it be directly to the site, PayPal, something else? 

Would we be governed by some of the more draconian PB rules, I'm thinking of the instances where disgruntled members complain to PB and they threaten to shut us down. (Not that I want the board to become the Wild West, but a little less evil overlord might be nice). 

I haven't voted yet, because I think there will be some good questions posed that I haven't thought of. 

As I understand Patrick Clinger's comments with regard to adult content, Sroo, we would be responsible to US law, not to ProBoards, per se.  This new offering is not branded to ProBoards, so if someone complained it would be to the law (think police) we would answer, not Proboards.  If someone complained to ProBoards, ProBoards would forward the complaint to moonbeam for her to handle.  That's the way I've read it on the support forums.

[Tennesseer]

If I am paying for something, I would not want any type of board moderation and would like to be able to print any type of picture or say anything I wish to say without censorship.

So no. I would not be willing to pay a monthly or annual fee.

[moon/Laura]

On the forums.net platform, users could use the Report Abuse button for

copyright infringement
trademark infringement
child pornography
violent threats

[moon/Laura]

Apr 19, 2014 13:51:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If I am paying for something, I would not want any type of board moderation and would like to be able to print any type of picture or say anything I wish to say without censorship.

So no. I would not be willing to pay a monthly or annual fee.

well, i can state unequivocally that we are NOT going to ever have a free for all here, regardless. there WILL still be rules.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 19, 2014 13:53:37 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Apr 19, 2014 13:51:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If I am paying for something, I would not want any type of board moderation and would like to be able to print any type of picture or say anything I wish to say without censorship.

So no. I would not be willing to pay a monthly or annual fee.

well, i can state unequivocally that we are NOT going to ever have a free for all here, regardless. there WILL still be rules.

And that is where the problem with paying 'dues' may comes in. 

With a 'free' site, there is more control of what is or is not allowed.  Posters can be removed without any financial damage to them (even if it is just a buck).

[Deleted]

I prefer free. $150 per month is a lot of $$ to raise on a regular basis, and there's no guarantee it would stay at that level, especially if we get more members. You'd almost have to have some agreement beforehand from posters X, Y,Z, A, B, C etc. that they'd pay in a certain amount at agreed-upon intervals. I might agree with, say, $50 every 3 months, but you'd have to find 11 others who also agree to that. It would be a big chore to send reminders an deal with non-payers.

[mmhmm]

It doesn't matter to me, one way or the other.  If the majority want to switch over to the forums.net platform, I'll be happy to contribute toward making it happen and keeping it going.  If the majority choose to remain where we are, that's fine with me, as well.  I think it's a good thing we have this opportunity to offer a choice.

[Shooby]

Well in what way would a new board be better than this on other than an ad at the top? This board is full of features. I just can't imagine any real improvement.

[Virgil Showlion]

Apr 19, 2014 14:07:21 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Well in what way would a new board be better than this on other than an ad at the top? This board is full of features. I just can't imagine any real improvement.

See Reply #12.

[Deleted]

Apr 19, 2014 13:51:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If I am paying for something, I would not want any type of board moderation and would like to be able to print any type of picture or say anything I wish to say without censorship.

So no. I would not be willing to pay a monthly or annual fee.

Have you ever been on one of those un-moderated boards? It is an unpleasant free for all. No matter what someone post there is a pack that replies back with foul insults and racial slurs. Not a discussion at all.

I think this board does an exceptional job of moderating reasonably. I think one moderator has some sort of problem, but I guess they can't all be impressively perfect. It must be very difficult to find people that can spend the time to check posts across so many sub-categories. 

I think the only thing I saw on here that bothered me was the recent photo of sexy-gun-guy, which made me wretch. It wasn't against rules or anything, just distasteful to me. I can live with that. I would not want grosser stuff appearing because rules loosen. I don't understand the quote/repost the picture numerous times thing that goes on (even with non controversial pics). Why keep making the thread massively long by reposting strings of pictures? We won't know what is being discussed if pics aren't recaptured?

If you were talking $50/mo that would be one thing, but to take an ongoing responsibility of $150+/month seems onerous. Having been a parent collecting money for club obligations that their kids directly benefit from. Don't do it & don't prepay for anyone else!

[moon/Laura]

the main attraction, in my opinion, is the no pg13 restriction, which so many have complained is too childish. and i agree with that.

That said, i do realize that a commitment to raising $150/month for a minimum of 6 months is challenging. And perhaps what i would have to do is make it a "pay to play" scenario, where only those who contribute are allowed access to that area. i really don't know.

[Jaguar]

Well I figured out that there would need to be roughly 35 peeps committed to this to pay approx. $5 a month. If there was 70 committed peeps that amount maybe could be every other month.

My estimates are rough and I'm thinking about overages.

[Sharon]

I like the pg-13 restrictions when I am lurking at work.  Some of the pictures even now cause for some quick scrolling or closing of the screen at work.

[mmhmm]

Apr 19, 2014 14:33:16 GMT -5 Sharon said:

I like the pg-13 restrictions when I am lurking at work.  Some of the pictures even now cause for some quick scrolling or closing of the screen at work.

I can understand that, Sharon, and I think it's a reasonable concern.  Quite a few of our posters post from work, I think.  That should certainly be a concern.

[moon/Laura]

And that's why i would probably put it in its own category, so that people could easily avoid that content at work.

[Jaguar]

But say we do go forward with this, say that 70 peeps do come forward to commit themselves. What happens if shit happens and we have to come back to pg13, we will loose our board.

Cause yanno shit does happen.

And I'll be 100% honest in that I do not understand most if not all about the Forums.net issue and what it entails.