Sharing the Spirit of Christianity/Evangelizing

[Deleted]

A business who serves the public has the right to stipulate whom they will serve and like someone said, make it visibly known in BIG BOLD letters where every eye can behold and easily read. Those people who will be denied service can move along to whomever will serve their needs.

On the other hand-- To every believer I ask you, "What would Jesus Do," in the Oregon's situation?

I do not agree with turning people away who do not live, look nor believe like I do if/when serving the public. I find serving the public is a wonderful opportunity to share the Good News with ANY unbeliever.

For instance, I have a newspaper delivery individual who is gay. I use every opportunity, when lead to, to share with them what I believe is Thee Truth. They know I do not agree with their lifestyle choices, but more importantly I know my newspaper delivery person can feel the   of God through me, their spirit-filled public servant! 





*NOTE:  This post and all following were moved here from the P&M forum. - mmhmm, Administrator*

[Tennesseer]

Mar 15, 2014 9:02:33 GMT -5 @heart2heart said:

A business who serves the public has the right to stipulate whom they will serve and like someone said, make it visibly known in BIG BOLD letters where every eye can behold and easily read. Those people who will be denied service can move along to whomever will serve their needs.

On the other hand-- To every believer I ask you, "What would Jesus Do," in the Oregon's situation?

I do not agree with turning people away who do not live, look nor believe like I do if/when serving the public. I find serving the public is a wonderful opportunity to share the Good News with ANY unbeliever.

For instance, I have a newspaper delivery individual who is gay. I use every opportunity, when lead to, to share with them what I believe is Thee Truth. They know I do not agree with their lifestyle choices, but more importantly I know my newspaper delivery person can feel the   of God through me, their spirit-filled public servant! 

Or your newspaper delivery person simply puts up with your unwanted proselytizing simply because he/she needs the added income from delivering newspapers in your neighborhood.  

[mmhmm]

Mar 15, 2014 9:02:33 GMT -5 @heart2heart said:

A business who serves the public has the right to stipulate whom they will serve and like someone said, make it visibly known in BIG BOLD letters where every eye can behold and easily read. Those people who will be denied service can move along to whomever will serve their needs.

On the other hand-- To every believer I ask you, "What would Jesus Do," in the Oregon's situation?

I do not agree with turning people away who do not live, look nor believe like I do if/when serving the public. I find serving the public is a wonderful opportunity to share the Good News with ANY unbeliever.

For instance, I have a newspaper delivery individual who is gay. I use every opportunity, when lead to, to share with them what I believe is Thee Truth. They know I do not agree with their lifestyle choices, but more importantly I know my newspaper delivery person can feel the   of God through me, their spirit-filled public servant! 

A business that serves the public has the right to stipulate to whom they will provide service as long as that stipulation does not break the law.

I'm curious, heart2heart.  How do you know your newpaper delivery person is gay?  Did he/she tell you?  Has he/she ever offered his/her take on the things you're saying?  You say you "use every opportunity, when lead to" to offer this person spiritual guidance (or, your idea of same).  What "leads" you to do so?  Is it this person who "leads" you, or does this "leadership" come from within you to be applied to this person?

[cereb]

Unsolicited "truths" from those who don't know jack shit about you does not make a person feel the love of anybody. It's rude and offensive even if you are not meaning to be so.

[Deleted]

I promise to return and respond. I am on a timed schedule that must be met by 12:30.

[cereb]

"I find serving the public is a wonderful opportunity to share the Good News with ANY unbeliever"

No. It's a wonderful opportunity to do your job.

[mmhmm]

Mar 15, 2014 10:46:29 GMT -5 @heart2heart said:

I promise to return and respond. I am on a timed schedule that must be met by 12:30.

Thanks, heart2heart. 

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I do not agree with turning people away who do not live, look nor believe like I do if/when serving the public. I find serving the public is a wonderful opportunity to share the Good News with ANY unbeliever.

For instance, I have a newspaper delivery individual who is gay. I use every opportunity, when lead to, to share with them what I believe is Thee Truth. They know I do not agree with their lifestyle choices, but more importantly I know my newspaper delivery person can feel the of God through me, their spirit-filled public servant!

How would you even know if some stranger/customer is a non-believer - unless you outright asked the customer (whom you don't know) a very invasive/personal question?

I'd be pretty offended if some clerk/shopkeeper who doesn't even know me started preaching or probing into my beliefs (or lack thereof) - or forcing theirs onto me.

And how did you reach the conclusion that your paper carrier is gay? Did they show up on your doorstep with your paper one day and announce it to you? Or are you assuming/hearing through the rumor-mill?

It's mighty pushy of you to "take the opportunity" to give them a sermon every chance you can - especially since you probably don't know what faith (if any) they practice either.

[Deleted]

Mar 15, 2014 9:02:33 GMT -5 @heart2heart said:

A business who serves the public has the right to stipulate whom they will serve and like someone said, make it visibly known in BIG BOLD letters where every eye can behold and easily read. Those people who will be denied service can move along to whomever will serve their needs.

On the other hand-- To every believer I ask you, "What would Jesus Do," in the Oregon's situation?

I do not agree with turning people away who do not live, look nor believe like I do if/when serving the public. I find serving the public is a wonderful opportunity to share the Good News with ANY unbeliever.

For instance, I have a newspaper delivery individual who is gay. I use every opportunity, when lead to, to share with them what I believe is Thee Truth. They know I do not agree with their lifestyle choices, but more importantly I know my newspaper delivery person can feel the   of God through me, their spirit-filled public servant! 

please tell me this is sarcasm

[Deleted]

Tennesseer- My deliverer and me happen to be friends. I've known them for quite some time now. It was obvious I am Christian (paraphernalia) when they first entered my home. Their first few comments included the following.. "Yes, I know, but I can't become Christian because I am "this way".. It's not that they don't believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. They just believe incorrectly. 

mmhmm- The very first time I met this person soliciting customers she mentioned not being eligible for salvation as "we" know it. I say we, because this individual grew up in a Christian environment all their life. When I say, "when I feel lead to" I simply mean if and when our conversation flows smoothly into our talking about her walk in the faith. 

And you're right about the tag on: as long as that stipulation does not break the law.

cereb- This person feels the love and is not offended in any way by me, but more importantly, takes no offense concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ. 

Shamrock _Lassie- My personal approach to sharing my faith with others who desire to listen is neither preachy nor offensively probing. Not once have I become preachy, forceful nor probing (here or anywhere) into anyone's beliefs unless there was a mutual agreement to discuss what I believe. Every moment I've had the chance to share my belief with someone (here or there) was always when I've had some type relationship with them 1st.. Be it someone who came into my home to do repair work, doctor's who serve me, complete strangers who just happen to be sitting next to me on a park bench, whomever... The conversation flows smoothly into me sharing my faith. I know when someone does not want to hear about my faith, so I discontinue speaking on the topic. And. If that was the case, because I'd been friendly enough before sharing my faith with them, we easily flow back into talking about mutual interests.

singlemominmd- For me, personally, no, it is not sarcasm.

[Tennesseer]

Tennesseer- My deliverer and me happen to be friends. I've known them for quite some time now. It was obvious I am Christian (paraphernalia) when they first entered my home. Their first few comments included the following.. "Yes, I know, but I can't become Christian because I am "this way".. It's not that they don't believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. They just believe incorrectly.

I don't believe you. I don't believe they would tell you the cannot become Christian because they are "this way". There is nothing wrong with their "way".   And few of the Christian sects are unwelcoming of gay attendees.  Gays may not be welcomed in your church but other Christian churches are more than happy to see them.  Remember:  we are all sinners until the day we die.

And who appointed you the one to determine that others incorrectly believe the gospel of Jesus.  It is equally possible that you incorrectly believe the gospel of Jesus.  It all depends upon one's own interpretation of the gospels.

Get over yourself lady.  Your hubris is something else.

[zibazinski]

[mmhmm]

Admittedly, I'm an atheist.  However, I can honestly say I don't think I've ever had a conversation that flowed "smoothly" into the person to whom I'm speaking sharing their faith.  I could see that happening in a church, or at a religious gathering of some sort.  In normal conversation, whether sitting on a park bench, or with a repairman in my home, or buying groceries, or pumping gas, I've never had that happen.  Not once.  The closest I've come, that I can remember, is someone saying "God bless you" as they leave.

I have had such conversations with sick patients in the hospital, but that was understandable, and I wouldn't say it flowed "smoothly".  The person was usually sick, and scared.  Their faith was foremost in their minds because they were afraid they might die, or just get more sick, or have severe pain.  Even then, it didn't develop into a full-blown conversation about that person's faith.  They shared their fears, mostly, and how they were handling those fears.  Only on a few occasions did the person ask me about my faith.  I have been asked to pray with patients, and I will take their hand a hold it quietly while they pray.  I'm sharing my love of humanity, not my belief in God. 

[Deleted]

Mar 15, 2014 15:54:32 GMT -5 @heart2heart said:

Tennesseer- My deliverer and me happen to be friends. I've known them for quite some time now. It was obvious I am Christian (paraphernalia) when they first entered my home. Their first few comments included the following.. "Yes, I know, but I can't become Christian because I am "this way".. It's not that they don't believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. They just believe incorrectly. 

mmhmm- The very first time I met this person soliciting customers she mentioned not being eligible for salvation as "we" know it. I say we, because this individual grew up in a Christian environment all their life. When I say, "when I feel lead to" I simply mean if and when our conversation flows smoothly into our talking about her walk in the faith. 

And you're right about the tag on: as long as that stipulation does not break the law.

cereb- This person feels the love and is not offended in any way by me, but more importantly, takes no offense concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ. 

Shamrock _Lassie- My personal approach to sharing my faith with others who desire to listen is neither preachy nor offensively probing. Not once have I become preachy, forceful nor probing (here or anywhere) into anyone's beliefs unless there was a mutual agreement to discuss what I believe. Every moment I've had the chance to share my belief with someone (here or there) was always when I've had some type relationship with them 1st.. Be it someone who came into my home to do repair work, doctor's who serve me, complete strangers who just happen to be sitting next to me on a park bench, whomever... The conversation flows smoothly into me sharing my faith. I know when someone does not want to hear about my faith, so I discontinue speaking on the topic. And. If that was the case, because I'd been friendly enough before sharing my faith with them, we easily flow back into talking about mutual interests.

singlemominmd- For me, personally, no, it is not sarcasm.

what would make you think that someone who comes to your house to repair your sink gives a sh&^ about your religion and wants to hear about it?  do you assume that everyone else is so stupid that if they want to know about a particular religion they can't figure out where to get their information and are just waiting for someone to start blabbing to them?

[Deleted]

Tennesseer, your insulting comment by itself is inappropriate. But considering you twisted the words to mean the exact opposite of what was intended makes it even worse. Don't prejudge people.

[Deleted]

@heart2heart, other than mmhmm, you're not going to find much in the way of rational discussion on this topic here. Except for mmhmm, you've already been judged to be an evil hypocrite from the second you mentioned you ascribe to a religion. Being prejudiced is tolerated here, but being religious is not.

[Tennesseer]

Mar 15, 2014 16:51:02 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

Tennesseer, your insulting comment by itself is inappropriate. But considering you twisted the words to mean the exact opposite of what was intended makes it even worse. Don't prejudge people.

What ever you see as an insult, I see as fact.

There is a reason why there is a sub-board for religious discussion.  Let heart2heart take her religious opinions back there where they belong.

[mmhmm]

Mar 15, 2014 16:55:22 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

@heart2heart, other than mmhmm, you're not going to find much in the way of rational discussion on this topic here. Except for mmhmm, you've already been judged to be an evil hypocrite from the second you mentioned you ascribe to a religion. Being prejudiced is tolerated here, but being religious is not.

I don't believe that's true, investorbob.  I think the problem lies more in the area of religious beliefs being highly personal.  Many people don't care to have their deeply-held personal beliefs probed by anyone - because they're very personal.  Church and religious gatherings are perfect places to share our spiritual beliefs.  There are even religiously-oriented message boards on which people do so.  We have a forum here for the sharing of such beliefs.  There was something to be said for the old adage:  "Never discuss religion or politics in polite company."  The way that was explained to me was to let me know religious beliefs were too personal to be bandied about and politics was too contentious.

[Deleted]

Mar 15, 2014 16:57:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Mar 15, 2014 16:51:02 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

Tennesseer, your insulting comment by itself is inappropriate. But considering you twisted the words to mean the exact opposite of what was intended makes it even worse. Don't prejudge people.

What ever you see as an insult, I see as fact.

There is a reason why there is a sub-board for religious discussion.  Let heart2heart take her religious opinions back there where they belong.

@heart2heart said that legitimate Christianity does not exclude gays. You ASSumed she said the opposite. You were both wrong and prejudiced. That crap doesn't belong here, either.

[Tennesseer]

Mar 15, 2014 17:01:55 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

Mar 15, 2014 16:57:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

What ever you see as an insult, I see as fact.

There is a reason why there is a sub-board for religious discussion.  Let heart2heart take her religious opinions back there where they belong.

@heart2heart said that legitimate Christianity does not exclude gays. You ASSumed she said the opposite. You were both wrong and prejudiced. That crap doesn't belong here, either.

Live with it IB.

[mmhmm]

Mar 15, 2014 16:57:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Mar 15, 2014 16:51:02 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

Tennesseer, your insulting comment by itself is inappropriate. But considering you twisted the words to mean the exact opposite of what was intended makes it even worse. Don't prejudge people.

What ever you see as an insult, I see as fact.

There is a reason why there is a sub-board for religious discussion.  Let heart2heart take her religious opinions back there where they belong.

Heart2heart isn't quoting scripture, Tenn.  She's not preaching.  This thread, because of the events that occurred in Oregon (and have occurred other places), does involve beliefs.  Christians aren't the only ones who feel this way about gay people.  As long as nobody starts preaching, or spouting scripture, I'm good with the discussion as it's going.  Perhaps, we could all learn to be a little more accepting of lots of things that aren't, maybe, the way we might want them, or have them.  I asked a couple of questions and heart2heart was kind enough to answer them for me.  I appreciate it.  I hope she'll answer the other questions I asked in my post.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

other than mmhmm, you're not going to find much in the way of rational discussion on this topic here. Except for mmhmm, you've already been judged to be an evil hypocrite from the second you mentioned you ascribe to a religion

I haven't seen anyone call heart2heart a hypocrite, investorbob.

I can tell you one thing - If I was a repair-person, delivery person, painter, interior decorator, etc etc - doing a job at heart2hearts home, and she started sermonizing to me, or "Spreading the Word", I'd ask her to please go find something something else to do and let me get on with the job I was hired for.

I also don't appreiciate strangers approaching me in public places - bus stops/trains - wherever - and striking up small-talk only to lead it into a religious discussion in their effort to convert me to their faith - especially if I already have (or don't) have one of my own.

It's very invasive - to assume someone needs "saving".

[Deleted]

mmhmm, I admire your ability to try to find the best in people and give them the benefit of the doubt. But here as an admin, you frequently wind up coming across as sticking up for the intolerant a-hole and letting them insult others with opinions that are in the minority. Just like you've allowed Tennesseer to do here.

It tends to make rational discussion here impossible, and it's why this board continues to get more and more homogeneous. Anyone with a minority opinion winds up spending more time defending themselves rather than engaging in productive discussion. Total waste of time to even be here.

[Deleted]

Mar 15, 2014 17:39:29 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

other than mmhmm, you're not going to find much in the way of rational discussion on this topic here. Except for mmhmm, you've already been judged to be an evil hypocrite from the second you mentioned you ascribe to a religion

I haven't seen anyone call heart2heart a hypocrite, investorbob.

I can tell you one thing - If I was a repair-person, delivery person, painter, interior decorator, etc etc - doing a job at heart2hearts home, and she started sermonizing to me, or "Spreading the Word", I'd ask her to please go find something something else to do and let me get on with the job I was hired for.

I also don't appreiciate strangers approaching me in public places - bus stops/trains - wherever - and striking up small-talk only to lead it into a religious discussion in their effort to convert me to their faith - especially if I already have (or don't) have one of my own.

It's very invasive - to assume someone needs "saving".

That's fine, but she wasn't talking about you, and she was pretty clear that this person was openly and voluntarily engaging in such discussion. If you hadn't prejudged her, you might have noticed that. Instead, you also made prejudiced assumptions and responded in a hostile manner.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

She's admitted to welcoming every opportunity to preach her faith to anyone who crosses her path - whether they ask for it or not.

Maybe the newspaper delivery person just wants to drop off her paper and get on with his/her route.

Same with a person who comes into her home to do maintenance, etc. They enter her home to do a job, get paid, and get on with their day.

They should be left alone to get that job done - and not have to engage in a sermon or listen to someone try to convert them. I assume that heart2heart isn't personal friends with these workers - or people she strikes up conversations with at bus-stops or in stores. I respect that she's a believer - but faith is a personal thing - maybe she's trying too hard to make everyone else a believer too - her approach to it just strikes me as very 'pushy' and invasive - especially with strangers she doesn't know.

(She said she takes every opportunity she has to lead amy conversation into discussing her faith). That usually will end up having the opposite effect than what she's hoping to achieve.

People must decide on their own what they want or don't want to believe in.

[Deleted]

mmhmm.. Christians give testimony as to how they became a Christian. It has always been by others having shared the gospel with them in some form. The scenarios vary greatly and among those ways are the ones I named. I've shared my faith with many and like I still say, if the person shows no desire to hear what I have to say, the topic is easily changed to mutual interests. Accepting the gospel is of course a choice made by the hearer. I have never ever forced anyone to believe as I do. 

singlemominmd.. I never feel a person is so stupid or stupid at all who refuse to hear or believe the gospel shared here or anywhere. We make our own personal choices as to what we believe or not. You've made it clear how you've chosen and I am not offended. At all. I do believe I have enough information to share the gospel with anyone who cares to listen and not come off as a babbler. 

Tenn.. I never said anyone being excluded from becoming a Christian was acceptable. All are welcome as they are and if they so choose, teachings are offered to bring about their maturity in the faith. <-- This is the area where my newspaper deliverer was not taught properly.

By the way, I believe I can respond to this subject matter like anyone else.

Investorbob.. Thanks for taking out the time to invest your correct comments of what I meant, whether you agree with my Christian beliefs or not I am not sure. The same to you, mmhmm, for being kind to take out the time and exclude being rude. 

The end. 

[Tennesseer]

@heart2heart-when you are speaking with your delivery person, is your intention to help him/her accept their homosexuality (through Christ) and become an active member of a church?  

[Deleted]

Shamrock_Lassie... You are one I would not continue sharing my faith with because I would know the gospel is offensive to you. I would not be and I'm not offended at all.

I've had the same electrician, carpenters and miscellaneous repairmen/women I've shared the gospel with for years now, and have become great friends with all of them. All of them, without exception have dined at my table more times than I can count. Just because my faith is not agreeable to some of the people I know, we are still able to maintain friendships.

[Deleted]

Mar 15, 2014 18:40:07 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

@heart2heart-when you are speaking with your delivery person, is your intention to help him/her accept their homosexuality (through Christ) and become an active member of a church?  

I like how you asked the question..

My response is, if I answer your question the way I'd like to, already knowing your views on Christianity I would be accused of what in your eyes?

You are not serious about the Christian faith and are looking for a way to lash out. I refuse to take the bait.

[mmhmm]

Mar 15, 2014 17:41:35 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

mmhmm, I admire your ability to try to find the best in people and give them the benefit of the doubt. But here as an admin, you frequently wind up coming across as sticking up for the intolerant a-hole and letting them insult others with opinions that are in the minority. Just like you've allowed Tennesseer to do here.

It tends to make rational discussion here impossible, and it's why this board continues to get more and more homogeneous. Anyone with a minority opinion winds up spending more time defending themselves rather than engaging in productive discussion. Total waste of time to even be here.

Again, I disagree, investorbob.  If your opinion differs from another's opinion, both of you have the right to state your opinions and most do.  Those who disagree state why they disagree and what they believe to be correct.  That's what rational, productive discussion is.  There are plenty of minority opinions held by our posters.  In my experience, there are times when every poster feels theirs is the minority opinion.  The "right" thinks the board is primarily populated by the "left".  The "left" thinks the board is primarily populated by the "right".  We did a poll once because each side was complaining about being the minority.  Turned out the board was pretty evenly split.  That should tell you something.

I read Tenn's post.  Tenn is talking about what heart2heart is saying, not about heart2heart, per se. Many people feel those who proselytize are acting with high hubris in trying to tell other people what they should believe and how they should live. That's not something only Tenn feels.  It's why discussions about religion (and politics) often become so contentious. Those who are unable to express their viewpoints and have those viewpoints challenged probably don't belong in message board discussion on those subjects because that's exactly what's going to happen.  You're going to say what you believe to be right and somebody is going to tell you that's not right.  Doesn't matter whether yours is the minority opinion, or not.  That's still what's going to happen.  I don't have to "allow" it.  It's going to happen no matter what.  If someone gets too personal, or really ugly in what they say to another, that won't be suitable.  In this case, I don't see a line was really crossed.  Borderline?  Maybe?  Line crossed?  I don't think so, at this point.

By the way, I suppose it could be said those who feel it's okay to reject gays are intolerant a-holes.  It could also be said those who feel their choice of religion is the only possible good choice and everyone should listen to what they have to say are a-holes.  I don't think so, though.  I think they're people with opinions with which I may agree, or I may not.