milee
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Post by milee on Mar 9, 2014 9:24:04 GMT -5
before going into survey and testing - I worked on a research project with abused kids. We were doing IQ measures, memory tests for the very stress medical exams looking for physical evidence of abuse - physical and sexual. The goal of the research was to support children's testimony of abuse in court where a good defense attorney can wipe the floor with a young and traumatized accuser. I can tell you, not believing is common. One child, told her aunt her stepfather was touching her. aunt called the authorities. Children taken out of home and put into hospital for assessments. Guess what? step father is a convicted child molester in another state. Mom still did not believe the girl! I walked in on the mom visiting and upbraiding the girl for breaking up the family! Another time, when she was telling the nurses at the station that this was mistake, they mentioned that he is convicted for this in another state - and I heard he telling them as she breezed out the door "that is a mistake, and we're going to get that conviction overturned" No one wants to believe these things. I think it is human nature to shut it out of the brain. Me, I believe the kids. Most abused kids never even say anything. Me, too. If I had been babysitting this 4 YO who said the things Debt posted, I'd believe her.
Rukh, the problem here is that it doesn't sound like the 4 YO said those things to Debt (and maybe not any other adult, hard to know?) All Debt knows is that the mom says the 4 YO said these things and the mom appears to have some credibility issues.
But yes, you have to believe kids when they tell you these things.
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milee
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Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
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Post by milee on Mar 9, 2014 9:26:46 GMT -5
I see lots of moms covering for their dirtbag molesting boyfriends, and moms who have kids removed be wise they don't believe the kid. The difference here is the judge doesn't award custody to the molester. And have moms visits supervised by a shrink. We just have mom saying to debt that it happened. the daycare provider also reported suspected abuse Who knows if the daycare provider did or didn't? Again, we only know the mom is saying this is the case. That's the biggest issue with what Debt is dealing with - she doesn't know who actually said what. She only knows what the mom is telling her (which doesn't make total sense, so makes it tough to figure out.)
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milee
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Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
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Post by milee on Mar 9, 2014 9:30:08 GMT -5
BTW, for the record, if it weren't mom telling Debt this stuff and Debt knew firsthand that all these things were true - daughter talks about abuse, daycare provider reports suspected abuse, dad has inappropriate influence with court - I'd be doing whatever it took to help try to protect the daughter because I would believe her.
The problem is that Debt doesn't know these things actually happened, only that the mom is saying that. And the only things Debt knows with certainty - the mom was neglectful of her older children, the court awarded full custody of 4 YO to dad and the mom can't visit without psych supervision - don't lend credibility to mom's statements.
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 8, 2024 22:21:02 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 10:23:28 GMT -5
I have more info.
- The judgement giving custody to the dad was based solely on the mom's repeated refusal to give him the child for visitation. - This judgement was returned BEFORE, IE WITHOUT taking several pieces of info being taken into account: - the daycare woman's call and subsequent statement - the most recent "expert examination" of the child (in Jan) - the videos (discovered in Dec, submitted in Jan)
It seems that her (former) lawyer should have / could have been more proactive in getting these items taken into consideration and in following through. It seems like she "dropped the ball" to some extent.
The next hearing (on 10 April) is with a CHILDREN'S JUDGE (and not a FAMILY judge). THE PARENTS DID NOT REQUEST THIS HEARING, THE COURTS DID, based on concerns raised because of the daycare provider's statements and earlier "expert examinations" (and maybe the videos, she does not know where "in the system" they are). The 10 April hearing is a SEPARATE proceeding from the Family Court proceeding which recently gave custody to the dad. The mom is hoping that her new lawyer (who is filing an emergency motion tomorrow for child endangerment) will get things items taken into account ASAP, and before the 10 April hearing at the latest.
The mom does not seem in the least bit crazy to me. She said she was naive, trusting, and she should have been much more proactive than she had been, and solicited the help of associations, which she hadn't wanted to do / thought was necessary until now.
Anyway, this explains why the dad got custody: the mom had repeated occurances of "refusing to present the child for visitation", and the three items I listed above had NOT (yet?) been taken into account (either because of the time lag, or the lawyer not being as proactive as she could have been, or some combination of both).
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milee
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Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
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Post by milee on Mar 9, 2014 10:36:53 GMT -5
Debt, one more question about how it works in France vs. US.
In the US, if there's an active case where CPS/police are investigating alleged sexual abuse and there's a reasonable amount of evidence, they (CPS) will usually at least require supervised visitation with the suspected abuser if they allow the suspected abuser to visit at all. It sounds like there may be a separate Family and Children's count in France, but wouldn't the Children's court system be putting limits on dad's visits during all this? It seems odd that there was an expert examination, etc. several months ago, yet the child protective authorities haven't stopped dad's visits or required them to be supervised. Because it sounds like that's what's getting the mom in trouble here - she was left to stop the visitation on her own without help or support from the child protective authorities. And even now, the child protective authorities haven't stepped in to protect the child from the dad?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 10:40:15 GMT -5
I really appreciate your help, especially your telling me that I was right not to take them all in, because I really needed to hear that when I posted.
But this story is taking its emotional toll on me, and the wheels of justice turn slowly. So I think I'm going to let this thread "die down". I hope you will understand.
If something happens, I will let you know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 10:45:46 GMT -5
That's exactly right, Milee. The first penal judgement (not sure by which court) was that there was "insufficient evidence" against the dad, so no supervision was needed.
At that point, the mom stopped letting the child go for (weekly afternoon) visits. And now she's (I guess) in contempt of court. She was fingerprinted and had her mug shot taken Friday (for refusing visitation). It really, really sucks.
ETA: DS2 is coming over, and I have prep for tomorrow, so I'm going to try to back away from this thread.
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milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
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Post by milee on Mar 9, 2014 10:50:28 GMT -5
I understand what a toll this is taking on you and your family. Hope things get better for your family and the friend's family.
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