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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2014 19:51:59 GMT -5
Maybe she has not been acting rationally lately because she's cracking under all the stress. No one would blame her for it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2014 19:56:58 GMT -5
Beerwench, agreed.
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sunshinegal1981
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Post by sunshinegal1981 on Mar 7, 2014 20:41:56 GMT -5
...They have all told me that his two daughters have admitted that their dad abused them but the mom refuses to let them make a statement because otherwise the dad will not be able to pay CS. The above is from the OP. Can you please elaborate on this? This seems so twisted to me. Wouldn't the older girls' testimony lend credibility to the suspicion that this guy is a child molester? Why would the dad be unable to pay CS to his ex-wife if their daughters testify? Who is this woman, who would rather keep CS payments coming than save a child from (possible) sexual abuse?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2014 21:05:23 GMT -5
...They have all told me that his two daughters have admitted that their dad abused them but the mom refuses to let them make a statement because otherwise the dad will not be able to pay CS. The above is from the OP. Can you please elaborate on this? This seems so twisted to me. Wouldn't the older girls' testimony lend credibility to the suspicion that this guy is a child molester? Why would the dad be unable to pay CS to his ex-wife if their daughters testify? Who is this woman, who would rather keep CS payments coming than save a child from (possible) sexual abuse? Can she even do that? Again, no clue how France works, but my 11 year old was going to have to testify last Fall and I didn't want him to, but I was told I had no say in the matter. Luckily, it never came to that.
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moneymaven
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Post by moneymaven on Mar 8, 2014 0:01:24 GMT -5
I've missed a lot on this thread but I think you did the right thing. My prayers go to that little girl who has been traumatized by whoever. These monsters will live forever in her life and that breaks my heart.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 1:31:35 GMT -5
Why does DD's BFF and her mom suddenly need a place to stay? Her child was taken from her, not her home. If you knew this person well I would answer differently. By your own admission you really don't know the mom. Why would you be the only one she can reach out to? It doesn't make sense for a reason.
Her proof is a video taken by an anonymous person that she assumes is the dad. That isn't proof enough for police or court. Did she make the claim of abuse 14 months ago when she found out about it? Did she wait until the child's father found her after she ran away with the child?
The court has seen and heard everything and chose to give the child to the father full time. If there is a known problem of bribery with police and judges in the area then I might believe it. Otherwise it just doesn't ring true.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 5:12:14 GMT -5
Why does DD's BFF and her mom suddenly need a place to stay? Her child was taken from her, not her home.
She doesn't need a place to stay anymore. She wanted to stay here (to hide basically) BEFORE the child was taken from her yesterday.
In the morning, my DD asked me to take them in. I said no. The child was taken from her mom in the afternoon.
Wouldn't the older girls' testimony lend credibility to the suspicion that this guy is a child molester? Why would the dad be unable to pay CS to his ex-wife if their daughters testify? Who is this woman, who would rather keep CS payments coming than save a child from (possible) sexual abuse?
My friend wanted them (her former stepdaughters) to testify. It's the ex-wife who did not want her daughters testifying because she does not want her ex-h in jail. The girls are in HS now. I have never laid eyes on these two girls, or the ex-wife, so I can't tell you any more. Hope this is clearer.
I remembered something else (this morning): the mom is only allowed to see the child in the presence of a psychiatrist. That does not bode well.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 8, 2014 5:20:18 GMT -5
I agree with the above.
A court wouldn't normally take a child away from its mother, especially if there was any suggestion of child abuse. They wouldn't have even sat without having all the reports and facts.
You certainly can't "hide" a person you don't know very well from the authorities...That's putting yourself and your family at risk of prosecution.
....and you certainly can't do it based on half a story which doesn't ring true....from someone you don't know very well.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Mar 8, 2014 5:25:34 GMT -5
Yes, I didn't want to say it but she sounds like she has a screw loose.....Its suspicious that her friends and family aren't supporting her, and she asks this of a neighbour. You don't have any concrete evidence at the moment, that any of this is true.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 6:40:40 GMT -5
Its suspicious that her friends and family aren't supporting her, and she asks this of a neighbour.
I completely agree with this, I think it's weird too. The mom cancelled coming over for coffee today (she's coming over tomorrow instead). She said her lawyer is going to file an emergency (motion?) on Monday to try to recuperate the child. Otherwise the next custody hearing is mid-April.
How it works here: the child was given to the dad by the "family judge" who deals with divorce / custody issues. But a "children's judge" can override the family judge's decision if the child is "in danger". That's what they are going to try to do.
I have a lot of trouble believing it's not true. But the bottom line is, who knows? DD is on her way over there now.
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kjto1
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Post by kjto1 on Mar 8, 2014 7:46:05 GMT -5
You are not a monster for not taking them in. You have no idea how long it would have been, legal ramifications, drama, etc. It is suspicious that she did not turn to her parents, siblings long time friends for help. Please don't beat yourself up on this - this is not in your control.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Mar 8, 2014 7:58:56 GMT -5
It can't be said enough that you are NOT wrong for refusing to take them in. It was spot on that the police are going to investigate close relationships and only a matter of time before they would have been found.
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kjto1
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Post by kjto1 on Mar 8, 2014 8:20:18 GMT -5
Why was there a court proceeding without her being notified - to be there to give her side of the argument/story?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 8:40:50 GMT -5
The parties are present at the hearings(?) (not sure of the legal terminology) and yes they / their lawyers state their cases.
But, the court's decision is returned weeks (sometimes even months) later. So, it seems both parents were just informed of the court's decision from the latest hearing(?).
ETA: This is normal here (frustrating, but normal). It was the same 20+ years ago when I divorced my ex (although there was no custody battle). But you only found out the results of the (hearing) weeks / months later.
If they do file something with the Children's Judge on Monday, they will be filing an Emergency Motion (i think) so that would work differently, that would be much quicker.
ETA2: Also, it seems that the dad got the results (from his lawyer) before the mom, hence his showing up yesterday morning with the police to enforce the new custody arrangement.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 8, 2014 8:47:53 GMT -5
I watched police assist a dad take custody of his kids -whom dad hadn't tried to see for a year despite weekly updates, pictures, and Skype requests from mom- and then the police wash their hands of the situation when dad fled the state with the kids. Mom/grandma spent a month working with courts in 3 different states before getting the kids back. On one hand it did work out in the end so I guess proof that the system will work. But it really just enforces for me that if you need the system you're already hosed.
The kids are the ones who will have the long lasting issues of effectively being kidnapped-even if it was by family that loved them and not an abuse situation.
I really hope the courts work for this little girl and that she gets the help and support that she will need.
Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 8:54:23 GMT -5
But it really just enforces for me that if you need the system you're already hosed.
Rae, this is exactly how she feels. She is changing lawyers, and going with one who works with an association for incest victims.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 8, 2014 9:24:25 GMT -5
Sometimes people change lawyers because the first one tells you things you don't want to hear.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Mar 8, 2014 10:43:54 GMT -5
Why does DD's BFF and her mom suddenly need a place to stay? Her child was taken from her, not her home.She doesn't need a place to stay anymore. She wanted to stay here (to hide basically) BEFORE the child was taken from her yesterday. In the morning, my DD asked me to take them in. I said no. The child was taken from her mom in the afternoon. Wouldn't the older girls' testimony lend credibility to the suspicion that this guy is a child molester? Why would the dad be unable to pay CS to his ex-wife if their daughters testify? Who is this woman, who would rather keep CS payments coming than save a child from (possible) sexual abuse?
My friend wanted them (her former stepdaughters) to testify. It's the ex-wife who did not want her daughters testifying because she does not want her ex-h in jail. The girls are in HS now. I have never laid eyes on these two girls, or the ex-wife, so I can't tell you any more. Hope this is clearer. I remembered something else (this morning): the mom is only allowed to see the child in the presence of a psychiatrist. That does not bode well. Debt,
I'm having trouble understanding the relationships here. Neighbor (DD's BFF's mother) has two families. 1) the BFF, another daughter and a son by one father and 2) A four year old by another man. The other man has gotten custody for his one and only child.
Were the older girls also abused? If so by whom?
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Mar 8, 2014 10:49:18 GMT -5
Debt,
I'm having trouble understanding the relationships here. Neighbor (DD's BFF's mother) has two families. 1) the BFF, another daughter and a son by one father and 2) A four year old by another man. The other man has gotten custody for his one and only child.
Were the older girls also abused? If so by whom?
bonny - if I am keeping track of this, the father of the 4 year old also has two older daughters in the teen ages. OK that makes better sense. Otherwise it looked like BFF's mom kept hooking up with child molesters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 12:32:41 GMT -5
Bonny: The mom of the 4YO has 3 kids from her first marriage: 2 boys and 1 girl (DD's BFF). Also, she is my FORMER neighbor. She moved when she got together with this guy (to the other side of our suburb) and then moved again when she found out / suspected he was abusing the 4YO (who was 3 at the time). She moved 45 min away with 3 of her 4 kids (the other is away at college.)
The dad of the 4YO has two older girls from his first marriage. SUPPOSEDLY yes, the older girls were abused by their dad. Of course I have no proof of that.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Mar 8, 2014 12:37:09 GMT -5
Aiding a kidnapper is not a good idea. You were right to say no.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 12:49:45 GMT -5
I am afraid you are getting sucked in by this whackadoodle and will do harm to your own family. In a really volatile situation like this it would be normal for some of the mom's friends to distance themselves. But not all of them and not her family. That she is reaching out to someone she does not know well and could not go to family is a fact you can't ignore. Family doesn't want her because they can't deal with a 4 year old? Probably more true that they can't deal with mom's drama. It does sound like she creates or makes drama. Think back to your early knowledge of this woman. - Her daughter essentially 'lives' at your house through middle school
- Mom cooks for kids but leaves to sleep at boyfriends house
- Mom has volatile relationship and goes so far as to get pregnant at 40 to try and rope this guy in
How sure are you that DD's BFF wasn't soft peddling what was going on in middle school? What if mom was never there and DD was neglected, but too embarrassed to tell people the truth? Children were not her priority then so why now the very different behavior.
Now an anonymous video that could have been made by anyone. Did he do it, did she do it, did one of the kids do it?
The court has seen everything and they decided to place the child with the father full time. If they had any belief that abuse was at the hands of the dad, they would not have placed with him. Mom has the restrictions.
You need to critically evaluate the facts, not the emotions of this situation. You are being lied to.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 13:08:10 GMT -5
Lilly, I agree that it is not impossible that there is something going on. But, I don't see how having her over for coffee is "harming my family". That's exactly why I said no, they couldn't move in ... because I did NOT want to risk harming my family. I also did not want to invite her for lunch, that's why I said coffee. It's hard to say no, you can't come over for a coffee, though, since the mom asked.
I would welcome DD's BFF if need be (no need now) but that's it. I know the mom was there every evening when the girls were in MS because DD was over there a lot too in those days (not to sleep over though).
But I do agree that I don't want to get "sucked in".
ETA This is a good point, and something I probably need to talk to DD about (since she is driving a lot of the contact, because she is upset for her BFF and the mom).
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Mar 8, 2014 15:46:46 GMT -5
@debthaven2,
Do you think that DD offered your home? Is that why this barely known acquaintance was contacting you before other (and presumably closer) friends? I can certainly see how I might have tried to help the situation if I was your DD and her best friend's family was falling apart.
You were certainly correct in wanting some time (and boundaries!) with the situation.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 8, 2014 17:23:52 GMT -5
I see lots of moms covering for their dirtbag molesting boyfriends, and moms who have kids removed be wise they don't believe the kid. The difference here is the judge doesn't award custody to the molester. And have moms visits supervised by a shrink.
We just have mom saying to debt that it happened.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 18:29:09 GMT -5
Do you think that DD offered your home?
Bonny, apparentely DD's friend asked, partly because we have room.
DD told me that when the mom, her friend and the little girl went to the police station, they said they would audition the mom. They put her in a separate room, and told DD's friend to watch her sister. Then as soon as the mom was in the room, the police tore the girl out of DD's friend's arms, and took her to the dad who was waiting elsewhere in the building,.
The mom and daughter never got to say goodbye. The entire procedure was just barbaric.
We had dinner with close friends tonight. My friend is a doctor and more familiar with these procedures than me. Her guess is that the court probably told the mom to allow the dad visitation, she refused, and that she probably lost custody (at least for now) because of that. My friend also said that after years of unfairly giving moms custody, the local courts have developed a reputation over the past few years for going overboard in the other direction.
I don't really have anything to add at this point, but my heart really breaks for them. I can't imagine not being able to see or contact my child. The mom doesn't even know where she is, because apparently the dad has moved out of town.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 18:38:08 GMT -5
I see lots of moms covering for their dirtbag molesting boyfriends, and moms who have kids removed be wise they don't believe the kid. The difference here is the judge doesn't award custody to the molester. And have moms visits supervised by a shrink. We just have mom saying to debt that it happened. the daycare provider also reported suspected abuse
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 8, 2014 19:12:06 GMT -5
Diesnt mean it was dad.
Judges are human too. They don't want to put a kid with an abuser. And a mom who has had custody doesn't lose a kid like she's described unless something is really wrong with her.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 19:18:28 GMT -5
Swamp, you don't think it could just be having repeatedly refused to allow the dad visitation? My doctor friend says that is totally possible here.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 8, 2014 19:44:58 GMT -5
Swamp, you don't think it could just be having repeatedly refused to allow the dad visitation? My doctor friend says that is totally possible here. Yes. But they wouldn't place the kid with him if there was any credible evidence he was a molester
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