Ukraine

[djAdvocate]

Mar 9, 2014 0:59:08 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Mar 7, 2014 2:21:10 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

not likely.  but let's be honest: can you imagine a shittier ally?  seriously.

The Ayatollah?? You know Putin's other ally in the region. 

ok, fine.  i am not sure it is worse than Assad, but it is not much better.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I agree, but you're missing the point dj, Russia has been supporting Iran and Syria with money and arms. Now they fell like they are "winning" this proxy war that has spread across the Mideast. That's what the whole Assad congratulating Putin thing is about.

Now, there're other areas across Ukraine that want to go pro Russia, and the lunatic Putin sees glory. If this report is accurate, we can get a sense of the upcoming news stories.

Halya Coynash: Russian troops already deployed in mainland Ukraine

Did u hear the one about Putin asking for 2 billion, after the Ukraine got 1?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sorry, I forgot to add... The problem with this hubris of Putins is that the wahhabists want nothing more than to find a way to cut that money and arms off into Syria and Iran....

[Spellbound454]

UKRAINIAN fascists, nationalists and anti-Semites, sponsored by America, seize power in Kiev, overthrowing the legitimate (if ineffectual) president, Viktor Yanukovych. These new overlords humiliate Russian-speakers by outlawing the language and stand poised to sack Russia’s naval base in Sebastopol. Ethnic Russians run to Vladimir Putin for protection; he duly comes to their rescue. Mysterious military men with Russian rifles save the peace-loving people from the fascist threat.

You seem to dismiss this too easily Aham

They are extreme right wing activists who overthrew the president
 
They did outlaw Russian as a second language.......leaving the Russian speakers asking Russia for help

...and Putin does feel that his Black Sea fleet are under threat.....from this government. (He will never give it up)

.....and the fighting has stopped for the moment.

Putin is a lot of things but he isn't a lunatic.

If this problem is ever going to be solved its important to look at the facts and go from there. Assurances are needed on all sides for a peaceful resolution. 

[djAdvocate]

Mar 9, 2014 2:26:44 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

I agree, but you're missing the point dj, Russia has been supporting Iran and Syria with money and arms.

oh, i didn't miss it.  i simply stepped over it to make my own. 

Now they fell like they are "winning" this proxy war that has spread across the Mideast. That's what the whole Assad congratulating Putin thing is about.

Now, there're other areas across Ukraine that want to go pro Russia, and the lunatic Putin sees glory. If this report is accurate, we can get a sense of the upcoming news stories.

Halya Coynash: Russian troops already deployed in mainland Ukraine

Did u hear the one about Putin asking for 2 billion, after the Ukraine got 1?

LOL!  no.  so, i heard today that when Bush mentioned to Putin than he was thinking of adding Ukraine to NATO Putin's reply was "if you do that, we are taking Crimea".

[djAdvocate]

Mar 9, 2014 11:16:19 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

UKRAINIAN fascists, nationalists and anti-Semites, sponsored by America, seize power in Kiev, overthrowing the legitimate (if ineffectual) president, Viktor Yanukovych. These new overlords humiliate Russian-speakers by outlawing the language and stand poised to sack Russia’s naval base in Sebastopol. Ethnic Russians run to Vladimir Putin for protection; he duly comes to their rescue. Mysterious military men with Russian rifles save the peace-loving people from the fascist threat.

You seem to dismiss this too easily Aham

They are extreme right wing activists who overthrew the president
 
They did outlaw Russian as a second language.......leaving the Russian speakers asking Russia for help

...and Putin does feel that his Black Sea fleet are under threat.....from this government. (He will never give it up)

.....and the fighting has stopped for the moment.

Putin is a lot of things but he isn't a lunatic.

If this problem is ever going to be solved its important to look at the facts and go from there. Assurances are needed on all sides for a peaceful resolution. 

he is trying to put this one down as an "uprising".  that is the whole reason behind the lack of marked uniformed and artillery.  Putin knows that nobody will do anything about it, and that putting distance between himself and the action only increases the odds of nothing being done.  he has had is eye on Crimea for a long time.  i am not sure why he decided "now".  but that is of little concern.

i am SERIOUSLY doubting this leads to a wider conflict, based on what i have read.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Mar 9, 2014 11:16:19 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

UKRAINIAN fascists, nationalists and anti-Semites, sponsored by America, seize power in Kiev, overthrowing the legitimate (if ineffectual) president, Viktor Yanukovych. These new overlords humiliate Russian-speakers by outlawing the language and stand poised to sack Russia’s naval base in Sebastopol. Ethnic Russians run to Vladimir Putin for protection; he duly comes to their rescue. Mysterious military men with Russian rifles save the peace-loving people from the fascist threat.

You seem to dismiss this too easily Aham

They are extreme right wing activists who overthrew the president
 
They did outlaw Russian as a second language.......leaving the Russian speakers asking Russia for help

...and Putin does feel that his Black Sea fleet are under threat.....from this government. (He will never give it up)

.....and the fighting has stopped for the moment.

Putin is a lot of things but he isn't a lunatic.

If this problem is ever going to be solved its important to look at the facts and go from there. Assurances are needed on all sides for a peaceful resolution. 

I'm not dismissing it at all Spell. In fact, when Lone brought it up on the first page, I said there is probably something to the rumors that Putin is gearing up. I understand completely that the far right is surging across lots of places in Europe, especially in the Eastern Regions. I can tell you this, destabilizing these countries that are already part of NATO will do more to empower the far right than any overthough in the Ukraine did.

He is a lunatic Spell, there are many ways he could have played this situation, the smartest would have been to wait then draw China in with him. He just spent billions on an iron ring around the olympics.... I have heard from a few smart people over the last few days that Putin would stay put and not advance further into the Ukraine because of the cost to the Kremlin.. Meanwhile, Russian forces continued their march all weekend and into today...

I feel terrible for the Russian people, Putin came to power under contested elections with many people that opposed him jailed or silenced in God knows what manner. Since then it has been trouble in paradise for him. Putin may feel the far right is the real issue, but it's him and his tyrannical move into Ukraine that is the real problem here. Well him, and the wahabbists that are looking for a way to destabilize central asia.

Unless Putin packs up tomorrow and his troops leave the Ukraine.....

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Mar 9, 2014 21:17:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 9, 2014 11:16:19 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

You seem to dismiss this too easily Aham

They are extreme right wing activists who overthrew the president
 
They did outlaw Russian as a second language.......leaving the Russian speakers asking Russia for help

...and Putin does feel that his Black Sea fleet are under threat.....from this government. (He will never give it up)

.....and the fighting has stopped for the moment.

Putin is a lot of things but he isn't a lunatic.

If this problem is ever going to be solved its important to look at the facts and go from there. Assurances are needed on all sides for a peaceful resolution. 

he is trying to put this one down as an "uprising".  that is the whole reason behind the lack of marked uniformed and artillery.  Putin knows that nobody will do anything about it, and that putting distance between himself and the action only increases the odds of nothing being done.  he has had is eye on Crimea for a long time.  i am not sure why he decided "now".  but that is of little concern.

i am SERIOUSLY doubting this leads to a wider conflict, based on what i have read.

Its absolutely not of little concern dj, in fact.... Russian Forces Gain in Ukraine as Separatist Vote Looms

-The Ukraine crisis: A Middle East perspective
-Hoping to Isolate Russia US woos China on Ukraine

Or in other words, it already IS a wider conflict... Stay .

[Spellbound454]

The reason he is spooked is because the expansion of the NATO defence system for Europe

Phase One (2011 timeframe) will address short- and medium-range ballistic missile threats by deploying current and proven missile defense systems. It calls for the deployment of Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense (BMD)-capable ships equipped with proven SM-3 Block IA interceptors. In March of this year the USS Monterey was the first in a sustained rotation of ships to deploy to the Mediterranean Sea in support of EPAA. Phase One also calls for deploying a land-based early warning radar, which Turkey agreed to host as part of the NATO missile defense plan.
Phase Two (2015 timeframe) will expand our coverage against short- and medium-range threats with the fielding of a land-based SM-3 missile defense interceptor site in Romania and the deployment of a more capable SM-3 interceptor (the Block IB). On September 13, the United States and Romania signed the U.S.-Romanian Ballistic Missile Defense Agreement. Once ratified, it will allow the United States to build, maintain, and operate the land-based BMD site in Romania.
Phase Three (2018 timeframe) will improve coverage against medium- and intermediate-range missile threats with an additional land-based SM-3 site in Poland and the deployment of a more advanced SM-3 interceptor (the Block IIA). Poland agreed to host the interceptor site in October 2009, and today, with the Polish ratification process complete, this agreement has entered into force.
Phase Four (2020 timeframe) will enhance our ability to counter medium- and intermediate-range missiles and potential future inter-continental ballistic missile (ICBM) threats to the United States from the Middle East, through the deployment of the SM-3 Block IIB interceptor. Each phase will include upgrades to the missile defense command and control system.

There is a line of Countries between those which will have/ have missile bases (albeit defensive ones at the moment) ie Poland, Romania, Greece, Turkey and Russia itself.
Throwing Ukraine into the mix potentially puts missiles on his doorstep

He is on good terms with Assad because he has a naval base on their soil.....Its his only reach in to the Med and he wants to keep it.

In the complicated world of war games he is losing position.... and he doesn't like it.

People can woo China all they like... but they will stay out of it......they have disagreements themselves over islands claimed by Japan...and have a policy of not interfering with other Countries.

The Crimea is likely to vote Yes, I believe, to annexation with Russia.....and that's because they feel threatened by their own government who sought to ban Russian from being a second language. They are not a very good government and Ukraine with its broken economy..... is not a prize for any reason other than an expansion of European territory. 

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I am well aware of everything you are saying Spell. In fact, we have had countless conversations about it on MT and IP... THIS is the biggest problem and China is already fully involved.


-Tensions rising between Russia and Saudi Arabia over Syrian conflict
-Warning of ‘possible terrorist attack on China’ received by Taiwan days before Malaysia Airlines jet vanished

And the ants go marching on....

-Lawlessness in Ukraine angers Russia

[djAdvocate]

oh oh....Russia is amassing troops on the border of Ukraine now......not good.

[billisonboard]

Mar 14, 2014 13:04:23 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

oh oh....Russia is amassing troops on the border of Ukraine now......not good.

Think they will catch the Ukraine Army by surprise this time?

[Deleted]

I predict at the end of this, Russia gets a bit of land and we give them the political/financial equivelant of breaking their crayons. 

[billisonboard]

But what will the Ukrainians do?  Do they want their independence enough to fight for it? 

[Deleted]

Mar 14, 2014 14:25:41 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

But what will the Ukrainians do?  Do they want their independence enough to fight for it? 

Independence from what? Aren't they a country already?

[billisonboard]

Mar 14, 2014 15:50:23 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Mar 14, 2014 14:25:41 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

But what will the Ukrainians do?  Do they want their independence enough to fight for it? 

Independence from what? Aren't they a country already?

Yes they are a country and might even stay a country. That is not synonymous with being independent.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Crimea? This isn't...

Russia issues warning after fatal clashes in Ukraine city of Donetsk Moscow declares right to 'protect compatriots' and accuses Kiev over violence between pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian protesters

Russia Sends More Troops to Ukraine After New Protest Turns Deadly

Russia has sent reinforcements into Ukraine after at least one person was killed in clashes among citizens in Donetsk, increasing fears that the Kremlin will take the chaotic opportunity to invade the neighboring country.

[Deleted]

Mar 14, 2014 16:13:47 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 14, 2014 15:50:23 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Independence from what? Aren't they a country already?

Yes they are a country and might even stay a country. That is not synonymous with being independent.

I predict at the end of this, Russia gets a bit of land and we give them the political/financial equivelant of breaking their crayons.

[billisonboard]

I was working one summer at a middle school leadership camp. My smaller group of charges had put together a skit in which a group of cheerleaders had some conflict with a group of athletes. A requirement of the project was that all 16 kids had to have a role. When I viewed their skit, I noted that there were a group who had stood in the background and had no lines. One of the "cheerleaders" informed me "Oh, those are just the kids in the hall. They have nothing to say."

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Keep watching the right hand(vote this weekend)...

Ukraine crisis: Russia vetoes UN resolution on Crimea's future Tensions ramp up as vote nears, military repels Russia incursion into area next to Crimea

Russia has vetoed a UN resolution declaring Sunday's referendum on the future of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula illegal, but its close ally China abstained in a show of Moscow's isolation......

......Meanwhile, Ukraine's military scrambled aircraft and paratroops on Saturday to repel an attempt by Russian forces to enter a long spit of land belonging to a region adjacent to Crimea, Ukraine's defence ministry said.

"Units of Ukraine's armed forces today ... repelled an attempt by servicemen of the armed forces of the Russian Federation to enter the territory of Kherson region on Arbatskaya Strelka," a ministry statement said. "This was repelled immediately."

But hey, Putin promises that protecting Crimea is his only objective here... Stay all.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

...

Ukraine crisis: Russia seizes town outside Crimea border

Russian forces took control of a village just outside the border of Crimea on the eve of a referendum on whether the region should seek annexation by Moscow, Ukrainian officials said.

There have been no reports Saturday of gunfire or injuries in Strilkove. The town is on a long spit north of the peninsula, which is under Russian control.

Earlier in the day, the Ukrainian Defence Ministry said it had "repelled" another incursion by dozens of Russian paratroopers 28 kilometres further up into the strip of land at Arbatskaya Strelka.

Russia considering calls to intervene in eastern Ukraine

Russia's foreign ministry said on Saturday that Russia had received numerous calls to "protect peaceful civilians" following clashes in eastern Ukraine and that it would consider the requests.

[Spellbound454]

Its looks like the Crimean people want to be Russian.
Cest la Vie imo.
Who is anyone else to say that they should be Ukrainian.... when they clearly don't want to be.?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I agree Spell, only thing is it's looking more and more like....

Mar 6, 2014 0:16:20 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

This is the part where Putin, in his delusion state, spreads himself thin.
Stay all.

Pro-Russian demonstrators burn books, storm buildings in eastern Ukraine

Violence in the east, where Russian-speakers are in the majority, has prompted warnings from Moscow that it is prepared to defend the rights of residents who disagree with the new pro-Western authorities in Kiev.

This map really outlines what Putin has on his mind, JMO. Again, stay all.

[Deleted]

Mar 15, 2014 10:14:22 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I was working one summer at a middle school leadership camp. My smaller group of charges had put together a skit in which a group of cheerleaders had some conflict with a group of athletes. A requirement of the project was that all 16 kids had to have a role. When I viewed their skit, I noted that there were a group who had stood in the background and had no lines. One of the "cheerleaders" informed me "Oh, those are just the kids in the hall. They have nothing to say."

But I do! I predict at the end of this, Russia gets a bit of land and we give them the political/financial equivalent of breaking their crayons. I can also add on that maybe Obama and Putin were talking about the Crimean area when he was overheard saying "Wait till after the election". As an aside, an old school buddy of mine who majored in child psychology used to try to apply it to adult situations when he first graduated years ago. The fun was endless till he learned where the proper application belonged.

[billisonboard]

Mar 18, 2014 11:40:04 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

... But I do! ...

How about the Ukranians? Or is this just the jocks and the cheerleaders?

[djAdvocate]

Mar 14, 2014 13:33:45 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 14, 2014 13:04:23 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

oh oh....Russia is amassing troops on the border of Ukraine now......not good.

Think they will catch the Ukraine Army by surprise this time?

um...no. 

[billisonboard]

Mar 19, 2014 11:21:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 14, 2014 13:33:45 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Think they will catch the Ukraine Army by surprise this time?

um...no. 

But will they do anything to stop an invasion if one takes place?

[djAdvocate]

Mar 19, 2014 20:55:02 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 19, 2014 11:21:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

um...no. 

But will they do anything to stop an invasion if one takes place?

i don't know enough about that region to guess.  but we won't.

[billisonboard]

Mar 19, 2014 23:46:53 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 19, 2014 20:55:02 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

But will they do anything to stop an invasion if one takes place?

i don't know enough about that region to guess.  but we won't.

Glad we won't. Don't see any reason to expend more effort for their freedom than they are spending.

[Lizard King]

Don't see any reason to expend more effort for their freedom than they are spending.

Do you see any reason to subsidize your neighbor's lifestyle more than your neighbor is?