Ukraine

[Deleted]

I'm sure a lot of misinformation is coming across. Probably just rumors.

[kent]

Not very encouraging.....

www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/surrender-or-face-storm-russia-reportedly-tells-ukraine-n43086

Surrender or Face 'Storm,' Russia Reportedly Tells Ukraine

The Russian military has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 5 a.m. Tuesday (10 p.m. ET Monday) to surrender or face a "storm," Interfax news agency reported.

"If they do not surrender by 5 a.m. tomorrow, we will start a real storm in Ukrainian bases in Crimea," according to the statement sent by the Russians to the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, a ministry source told Interfax. NBC News could not immediately confirm the report.

The ultimatum was attributed to Alexandr Vitko, chief commander of Russia's Black Sea fleet.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Mar 3, 2014 10:46:31 GMT -5 @patstab said:

My DIL is from Russia, she talks to her mom all the time, never heard anything like that. Just talked to her night before last, she said the whole thing is crazy.

So what do we do, start WWIII? That's what I asked a prepper site going nuts and critizing. When I asked them what should have been done, not one answered. It's always easy to say someone is wrong, but then you need to come up with the solution. There is none here short of war and we don't have the money or resources to plow into more of them, personally I think we just need to stay out of it.

I'm not surprised the "preppers" have no solutions Pat. Digging a hole in the groung and filling it with tin cans is about as far as you'll ever get. Putin is screwing things up so badly for the Russian people it's not even funny, that was my point. My guess is we(NA) will "stay out of it" like we have in Syria, right up until the point that China is begging for our help supporting their boots on the ground. Time will tell.

[the flying reindeer]

Here is a map of the Ukraine with the ethnic areas delineated.

[Spellbound454]

The surrender or face a storm commentary has been denied....so who knows if its true.

I very much doubt either the US, NATO or Europe will involve themselves in a fight over the Ukraine.
...but there are a number of sanctions we can put in place to make life very difficult for Putin if the Western Countries group together.

He still hasn't explained exactly what threat he thinks his forces were under....He hasn't explained why he has reacted like this.... other to say its appropriate.

There may still be a war in the Ukraine. The Ukrainians must be very careful not to start it because once the shooting starts it will be very difficult to stop.
...and realistically they can't win.


What it needs is some calm heads and diplomacy.
 

[Jaguar]

Yeah calm heads are needed everywhere.

[kent]

Mar 3, 2014 17:42:55 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

In their eyes they are retaining what they had. I don't believe they ever thought of the Ukraine as being truly independent, and Putin certainly does not. (he has said that he considers the dissolution of the USSR as the greatest geo political tragedy of the 20th century. As long as Ukraine is in the fold politically, OK. But he can't have Kiev go over to the EU.

I wouldn't be surprised if he looks on this as a great opportunity.

I'm sure he does look at this as an "opportunity" but it certainly hasn't been working out on a financial basis so far:

www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2014/03/03/russian-stocks-plunge-on-ukraine-crisis-equity-index-sheds-58b/

Almost $60 billion evaporated from Russia’s stock market on Monday as global investors were spooked by Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Crimea and the West explores economic sanctions.

Russia’s MICEX index plummeted as much as 13% in response to the fast-moving Ukrainian situation, which has pitted Moscow against the West in a crisis reminiscent of the Cold War.

Financial pain was quickly felt by Russian investors as the ruble tumbled 2% against the U.S. dollar, forcing the country’s central bank to dramatically increase interest rates by 1.5 percentage points to 7%.

Will this loss change anything?  I doubt it very much because Putin is more interested in "control" than anything else, including his own economy.  Much like the "elite" people making decisions in our country - they have theirs and that's all that really matters.

 

[djAdvocate]

Mar 3, 2014 17:13:07 GMT -5 @patstab said:

Russia's excuse is wanting to keep that one seaport. I think its just expansionism like Hitler did.

i think they are worried about losing access.  that port, and the base next to it, are crucial to Russia.

it is hard for us to appreciate how important ocean access is to trade and to military activities.  we have a massive amount of all weather accessible coastline.

[the flying reindeer]

Russia is somewhat paranoid toward continental Europe. Twice in their history they have been devastated on their homeland by European tyrants - first Napoleon and second Hitler. That's why they set up satellite governments in Eastern Europe - to serve as a buffer between themselves and Europe. And they also sought a warm weather port, i.e. The Crimean War in the nineteenth century. So a lot of what is happening now actually has a long, long history going back to tsarist times. And, as a result, it will probably be quite difficult to solve by the West.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

I agree FRD, the current situation in the Ukraine is impossible for the west to solve. In fact, Putin is so delusional about the current state of Russia that it's most likely going to be a lynch pin for something much more intense. Chances are, it going to spread right across that giant landmass that is the eastern part of the globle. Stay all.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 3, 2014 23:28:29 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

I agree FRD, the current situation in the Ukraine is impossible for the west to solve. In fact, Putin is so delusional about the current state of Russia that it's most likely going to be a lynch pin for something much more intense. Chances are, it going to spread right across that giant landmass that is the eastern part of the globle. Stay all.

this will be a good test of how impotent the UN is.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Mar 4, 2014 0:07:58 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 3, 2014 23:28:29 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

I agree FRD, the current situation in the Ukraine is impossible for the west to solve. In fact, Putin is so delusional about the current state of Russia that it's most likely going to be a lynch pin for something much more intense. Chances are, it going to spread right across that giant landmass that is the eastern part of the globle. Stay all.

this will be a good test of how impotent the UN is.

Haha, no doubt dj. Talk about exposing hypocrisy.  At least it all works out in the end, my friend. 

[Spellbound454]

The reason the UN can't act is because Russia is a permanent member and would veto any proposed resolution.

it going to spread right across that giant landmass that is the eastern part of the globle. Stay all.

No it won't... Putin cant afford it.....and there is no desire for conflict from anywhere else.

The truth is that the Ukraine were decades away from getting in to the EU...Too many humans rights violations and an economy that is on the floor.
They just wouldn't be accepted. No one in Europe is going to want to support a Nazi party either, so they would have to have more political balance.

From what I can see, there was a dictate that Russian people in the Ukraine could no longer speak Russian... which upset Putin.
He also sees the overthrow of the Ukrainian President as US backed.
It may have been through concerned parties in the beginning.... but it was certainly taken over by right wingers who want nothing to do with Russia or Russian Ukrainians.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

No it won't... Putin cant afford it.....and there is no desire for conflict from anywhere else

Yeah, I know Europe is part of that land mass. Don't forget Merkel said Putin lives in a fantasy. I wish I would have listened to her closer.

Iran sending warships toward U.S. maritime borders

Iranian Parliament Foresees Darker Ties between Russia, S. Arabia

Terrorists declare war on Russia. Will Russia respond?

[Lizard King]

Moral: KEEP YOUR NUCLEAR DETERRENT, KIDS!

I do hope the Iranians are paying attention...

*smh*

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

It's like Einstein said Jim. "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."

This is the part where Putin, in his delusion state, spreads himself thin.
Stay all.

Ukraine as it happened: UN envoy chased in Crimea, Russia-US talks in Paris

As diplomatic maneuvers continue in Paris, and tomorrow in Brussels, the Pentagon decided to step up military support to Poland in the brink of the Ukrainian tension.

President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday that the crisis in Ukraine could have a negative effect on the Customs Union linking Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, and called for measures to protect the three nations’ producers and exporters.

The high chamber of the Russian parliament is reportedly preparing a draft law in case of EU and US sanctions against the country. According to the Russian news agency Itar-Tass, the proposal previews to freeze US and EU assets. A decision that coincides with the diplomatic efforts to ease the tension in Ukraine in Paris and Brussels, where EU leaders will meet this Thursday to discuss the possibility to impose sanctions to Russia.

In the eastern areas of Ukraine, pro-russian protesters stormed again the government headquarters in Donetsk on Wednesday, raising again a Russian flag. There are reports of clashes in Donetsk, as the UN envoy to Ukraine had to cancel his mission in Crimea, after being chased by pro-russian protesters in Simferopol.

Moldova Sees Contagion After Russia’s Intervention in Crimea
Hillary Clinton compares Russia's invasion of Ukraine to 'what Hitler did back in the 30s' ahead of WWII

[OldCoyote]

Obama issues executive order,  Boy , that going to scare Putin

linkhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/06/obama-russia-visa-restrictions_n_4910578.html

[OldCoyote]

One thing about Putin taking over is no more daily reports of police and civilians gunned down in the streets.

It appears Putin did this without a single shot being fired!

[billisonboard]

Mar 6, 2014 8:52:56 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

One thing about Putin taking over is no more daily reports of police and civilians gunned down in the streets.

It appears Putin did this without a single shot being fired!

Which leads to to an important question:

If the Ukrainian people are not willing to fight and die for their sovereignty, why should we care if they have it?

[djAdvocate]

Mar 6, 2014 8:52:56 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

One thing about Putin taking over is no more daily reports of police and civilians gunned down in the streets.

It appears Putin did this without a single shot being fired!

shots were fired, but nobody was injured.  they were warning shots, when the Ukranian Army tried to retake their base (unarmed).

[billisonboard]

Mar 6, 2014 10:51:01 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 6, 2014 8:52:56 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

One thing about Putin taking over is no more daily reports of police and civilians gunned down in the streets.

It appears Putin did this without a single shot being fired!

shots were fired, but nobody was injured.  they were warning shots, when the Ukranian Army tried to retake their base (unarmed).

Why were no shots fired when the base was first taken?

[djAdvocate]

Mar 6, 2014 11:40:41 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 6, 2014 10:51:01 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

shots were fired, but nobody was injured.  they were warning shots, when the Ukranian Army tried to retake their base (unarmed).

Why were no shots fired when the base was first taken?

LOL!  i think they were totally surprised.

[Deleted]

Mar 6, 2014 10:30:48 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 6, 2014 8:52:56 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

One thing about Putin taking over is no more daily reports of police and civilians gunned down in the streets.

It appears Putin did this without a single shot being fired!

Which leads to to an important question:

If the Ukrainian people are not willing to fight and die for their sovereignty, why should we care if they have it?

Good question.
Its is a mess, a large portion of the population WANTS to be part of Russia. 

[billisonboard]

Mar 6, 2014 12:48:16 GMT -5 @joey said:

Mar 6, 2014 10:30:48 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Which leads to to an important question:

If the Ukrainian people are not willing to fight and die for their sovereignty, why should we care if they have it?

Good question.
Its is a mess, a large portion of the population WANTS to be part of Russia. 

If that "large portion" is a majority, then it should happen. If a docile majority allows it to happen, then who are we to force it not to happen.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 6, 2014 12:59:32 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 6, 2014 12:48:16 GMT -5 @joey said:

Good question.
Its is a mess, a large portion of the population WANTS to be part of Russia. 

If that "large portion" is a majority, then it should happen. If a docile majority allows it to happen, then who are we to force it not to happen.

either way, this makes the "wait and see" attitude we have been showing seem reasonable, does it not?

[billisonboard]

Mar 6, 2014 12:36:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 6, 2014 11:40:41 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Why were no shots fired when the base was first taken?

LOL!  i think they were totally surprised.

[billisonboard]

Mar 6, 2014 12:36:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 6, 2014 11:40:41 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Why were no shots fired when the base was first taken?

LOL!  i think they were totally surprised.

On a more serious note:
If the neighbor dog looks like this:

Do you build a fence that looks like this:

or this:

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Nope nothing deeper going on here...

Syria’s Assad expresses support to Putin on Ukraine

[djAdvocate]

Mar 7, 2014 1:25:50 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Nope nothing deeper going on here...

Syria’s Assad expresses support to Putin on Ukraine

not likely.  but let's be honest: can you imagine a shittier ally?  seriously.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Mar 7, 2014 2:21:10 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 7, 2014 1:25:50 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Nope nothing deeper going on here...

Syria’s Assad expresses support to Putin on Ukraine

not likely.  but let's be honest: can you imagine a shittier ally?  seriously.

The Ayatollah?? You know Putin's other ally in the region.  The same guy who has boats on the way to the American coats line, has been bragging about new missiles, and was/is working on a nuclear bomb....

How are they justifying there next move?  I think this was brought up on the first page, no?

The end of the beginning?

UKRAINIAN fascists, nationalists and anti-Semites, sponsored by America, seize power in Kiev, overthrowing the legitimate (if ineffectual) president, Viktor Yanukovych. These new overlords humiliate Russian-speakers by outlawing the language and stand poised to sack Russia’s naval base in Sebastopol. Ethnic Russians run to Vladimir Putin for protection; he duly comes to their rescue. Mysterious military men with Russian rifles save the peace-loving people from the fascist threat.

So runs the plot invented by Russian propagandists to plunge Ukraine into chaos and seize the Crimean peninsula. Surreal as it sounds, the plot has been given some substance: parts of it only in the rantings of Russian politicians and journalists, parts—notably the bit about the rifles—in boots-on-the-ground reality.