Study: Yes, Pot Can Kill People (with Morbidities)

[grits]

Mar 4, 2014 23:42:06 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

He wasn't using it on the clock.  Manager didn't want to fire him either.  Corporate policy- one of those zero tolerance things.

I didn't say one thing about him using on the clock.  I said maybe they fired him because of what they saw as an insurance increase.

You better not work for the Federal Government, and get in an accident.  They'll have you drug tested so fast.  

[EVT1]

Mar 4, 2014 23:09:55 GMT -5 steff said:

I've only been to 1 concert that I didn't at least smell pot, and it was Huey Lewis & the News.  Also goes down as the most boring concert I've ever been to, everyone stayed sitting in their seats the entire show.  Was just strange. 


grits, being stoned doesn't mean one doesn't enjoy those same things.  When we lived in Houston, I often went to the museums to see certain traveling exhibits that interested me.  Going to the planetarium was an almost weekly thing for years.  We love sports & went to Astros & Rockets games.  There was no football team when we moved, I'm a bitter Oilers fan. 

Since moving to Georgia, we still go to the museums, I've seen Broadway shows at the Fox Theater, love the historical sites all thru the South East.  And I still go to concerts & get stoned.  I have tickets for Motley Crue in August for my birthday. 

The idea that a stoner is some brain dead moron sitting on a couch drooling simply isn't reality for many pot smokers.  We just giggle more often & aren't as anal over every little thing. 

Dated yourself there....  That's the last Crue show- they even signed a contract

BTW we stole your team- we now continue to suck as the Titans   Georgia has it's plusses- the Chattooga river for example.

Drove to Alpharetta to see Rush a while back and have to go there for work every now and then- not too far from where they were filming the Walking Dead.

But right on- am sick of the stereotype- the commercial with the flat girl on the couch- not it at all.  They should show the David Hasselhoff video right after that with a disclaimer that 'this is real' or maybe some DUI arrests. Watched a lot of COPS- never say anyone arrested for driving high- only for possession- meanwhile the drunk drivers and crazy drunken idiots are on every episode.

[grits]

I don't know of anybody on this thread trying to excuse drunks at all. In fact, I believe that if you hurt someone while drunk, you should be charged as if you did it completely sober. The same thing goes for any other type of mind altering substance.

Pointing at drunks to try and change the subject doesn't work.

I see no use for any of it but other peeps do.  To me, it is just one big waste of time, and money.  Also, as I stated before, I don't want to hold my face inches from a trash fire, and inhale.

[EVT1]

Mar 4, 2014 23:52:28 GMT -5 grits said:

Mar 4, 2014 23:42:06 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

He wasn't using it on the clock.  Manager didn't want to fire him either.  Corporate policy- one of those zero tolerance things.

I didn't say one thing about him using on the clock.  I said maybe they fired him because of what they saw as an insurance increase.

You better not work for the Federal Government, and get in an accident.  They'll have you drug tested so fast.  

Nope- the Supreme Court fixed their wagon on that one.  I had a government job- no drug testing.

They carved out an exception to the 4th amendment for those that worked in certain areas- law enforcement, driver, pilot, etc.  But if just some regular government shlub- you are protected by the Constitution. 

Too bad private employers get to shit on the spirit of that document. I would be 100% fine for drug testing if the test was reliable and could show impairment on the job, so until that is that case forget it. It doesn't work anyway- it costs more that it is worth and there is no real benefit. Toss it in the circular file with the personality testing, credit checks, and whatever other bullshit employers use to narrow the field.

[steff]

Mar 4, 2014 23:58:43 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Mar 4, 2014 23:09:55 GMT -5 steff said:

I've only been to 1 concert that I didn't at least smell pot, and it was Huey Lewis & the News.  Also goes down as the most boring concert I've ever been to, everyone stayed sitting in their seats the entire show.  Was just strange. 


grits, being stoned doesn't mean one doesn't enjoy those same things.  When we lived in Houston, I often went to the museums to see certain traveling exhibits that interested me.  Going to the planetarium was an almost weekly thing for years.  We love sports & went to Astros & Rockets games.  There was no football team when we moved, I'm a bitter Oilers fan. 

Since moving to Georgia, we still go to the museums, I've seen Broadway shows at the Fox Theater, love the historical sites all thru the South East.  And I still go to concerts & get stoned.  I have tickets for Motley Crue in August for my birthday. 

The idea that a stoner is some brain dead moron sitting on a couch drooling simply isn't reality for many pot smokers.  We just giggle more often & aren't as anal over every little thing. 

Dated yourself there....  That's the last Crue show- they even signed a contract

BTW we stole your team- we now continue to suck as the Titans   Georgia has it's plusses- the Chattooga river for example.

Drove to Alpharetta to see Rush a while back and have to go there for work every now and then- not too far from where they were filming the Walking Dead.

But right on- am sick of the stereotype- the commercial with the flat girl on the couch- not it at all.  They should show the David Hasselhoff video right after that with a disclaimer that 'this is real' or maybe some DUI arrests. Watched a lot of COPS- never say anyone arrested for driving high- only for possession- meanwhile the drunk drivers and crazy drunken idiots are on every episode.

I saw the Crue on their first tour opening for Ozzy and I've seen them a total of 10 times, this will be 11.  My brothers & I are going for my bday. 

The running joke for years in Houston was that Tennessee got a giant rat (Bud Adams) for their sewer money (they used some sewer bill to pay for the stadium).  I'm not a Falcon's fan at all.  we moved here at the height of Michael Vick worship & I was one of few that always thought he was a thug in a football uniform.  Same with the Braves, can't root for a team that always beat the Astros in the playoffs. 

I will say that even after going thru Snowmaggedon this year, I love the weather in Georgia.  I don't bitch about it being too hot here in the Summers.  Plus I had never seen real snow until moving here.  the people are a little uptight, too conservative, and way too religious IMO.  I had never been asked more about my religious beliefs than when we first moved here.  They care WAY too much about what church I may or may not go to and then judge a person's value after they find out what religion they are. 

[EVT1]

Mar 5, 2014 0:04:43 GMT -5 grits said:

I don't know of anybody on this thread trying to excuse drunks at all. In fact, I believe that if you hurt someone while drunk, you should be charged as if you did it completely sober. The same thing goes for any other type of mind altering substance.

Pointing at drunks to try and change the subject doesn't work.

I see no use for any of it but other peeps do.  To me, it is just one big waste of time, and money.  Also, as I stated before, I don't want to hold my face inches from a trash fire, and inhale.

So you agree that kid that killed a bunch of people drunk and got off with probation- you know the affluenza defense or whatever it was- should have his ass in jail right now and not at some 200K a year rehab spa?  Bet some of his non-rich pals got convicted for having a little weed and have that on their record for life.  And on that note- the feds decided to cancel or not allow student loans for some people caught with drugs- and if I remember right this was just another stupid plan that does nothing but further stigmatize people for life. 

How about a deal- we end the war on drugs and legalize it all, and employers can test anyone at anytime while they are on the clock for impairment- sound fair?

[EVT1]

Mar 5, 2014 0:20:28 GMT -5 steff said:

Mar 4, 2014 23:58:43 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Dated yourself there....  That's the last Crue show- they even signed a contract

BTW we stole your team- we now continue to suck as the Titans   Georgia has it's plusses- the Chattooga river for example.

Drove to Alpharetta to see Rush a while back and have to go there for work every now and then- not too far from where they were filming the Walking Dead.

But right on- am sick of the stereotype- the commercial with the flat girl on the couch- not it at all.  They should show the David Hasselhoff video right after that with a disclaimer that 'this is real' or maybe some DUI arrests. Watched a lot of COPS- never say anyone arrested for driving high- only for possession- meanwhile the drunk drivers and crazy drunken idiots are on every episode.

I saw the Crue on their first tour opening for Ozzy and I've seen them a total of 10 times, this will be 11.  My brothers & I are going for my bday. 

The running joke for years in Houston was that Tennessee got a giant rat (Bud Adams) for their sewer money (they used some sewer bill to pay for the stadium).  I'm not a Falcon's fan at all.  we moved here at the height of Michael Vick worship & I was one of few that always thought he was a thug in a football uniform.  Same with the Braves, can't root for a team that always beat the Astros in the playoffs. 

I will say that even after going thru Snowmaggedon this year, I love the weather in Georgia.  I don't bitch about it being too hot here in the Summers.  Plus I had never seen real snow until moving here.  the people are a little uptight, too conservative, and way too religious IMO.  I had never been asked more about my religious beliefs than when we first moved here.  They care WAY too much about what church I may or may not go to and then judge a person's value after they find out what religion they are. 

I saw that show in Memphis- saw them a couple times after that when they were headlining.

The first time I saw Metallica was as an opening act for Ozzy as well- met James Hetfield and Kirk Hammett during Ozzy- were hanging out by the light board or whatever the hell that thing was- this back when we and my friends camped out and bought floor seats and had to stand on the chairs for the whole show- cannot imagine sitting down.

Our giant rat is dead- I remember when they busted him giving the finger to the other team   But on my first TN ticket stub- they are listed as the Tennessee Oilers- saw them play the Steelers in Memphis before they built the stadium.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 4, 2014 22:45:42 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Mar 4, 2014 22:13:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Virgil: you seem to think that people free to make bad choices will invariably make them.

why is that?

Ron Paul shut that argument down in the primary when he asked the question- if heroin is legal tomorrow are you going to go get some?

The law against drugs is not the reason people do not do drugs.

Would apply that to being gay and the 'choice'- if gay marriage is a perfectly free and open option one day and no one gets flak for it I am still not going to consider a guy for a partner.  

Drug laws will affect drug use about as much as gay marriage laws will affect the numbers of gay people.  As I said before- pot was much easier to get than alcohol for the youngsters- and still is I am sure.   Not too many dangerous alcohol cartels either- NOT ANYMORE

here is the way i view it.  there are two categories of drug consumers: the casual user, and the addict.  let's take them one at a time.

most people, even the majority of HEROIN users, are not addicts.  therefore, MOST people are casual users.  they have day jobs.  they have families.  they go to school.  they have degrees.  they are teachers, firefighters, paramedics, basketball players, machinists, and stay at home moms.  in other words, they are pretty much like everybody else. 

the second group is sick.  they need help.  they need intradiction (sic) and treatment.

now, i ask you: how does criminalizing drug use/abuse help EITHER ONE of these groups?

[djAdvocate]

Mar 4, 2014 22:50:41 GMT -5 grits said:

Mar 4, 2014 22:45:42 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Ron Paul shut that argument down in the primary when he asked the question- if heroin is legal tomorrow are you going to go get some?

The law against drugs is not the reason people do not do drugs.

Would apply that to being gay and the 'choice'- if gay marriage is a perfectly free and open option one day and no one gets flak for it I am still not going to consider a guy for a partner.  

Drug laws will affect drug use about as much as gay marriage laws will affect the numbers of gay people.  As I said before- pot was much easier to get than alcohol for the youngsters- and still is I am sure.   Not too many dangerous alcohol cartels either- NOT ANYMORE

It is for a lot of people I know.  More than one person has said to me that if the state legalized pot they'd like to try it just once.  They aren't going to until it is legalized.  Personally, I am not interested in holding my face centimeters from a trash fire, and inhaling the smoke.    

if they smoked a little refer the world is not going to end.  the real question is if they would do heroin under similar circumstances.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 4, 2014 23:05:49 GMT -5 grits said:

Mar 4, 2014 23:02:19 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

I don't buy that- my mom is a very Christian and conservative lady- doesn't drink more than maybe one bloody mary a year- but admitted she tried a little pot. Cannot fathom anyone that would not try it based on the law alone- maybe they would never buy any but if some pal of theirs lit one up at a New Year's Eve party.......

You should buy it.  You aren't even from the same generation.  There are still people who choose to abide by the law.  They have a respect for basic laws that you may not understand. BTW, this should make you cry, a baggie of good stuff used to cost $5.

i have no respect for law that has no respect for me.  i tend to ignore such laws, and take my chances.  always have.  always will.

[EVT1]

Mar 5, 2014 0:52:16 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 4, 2014 22:45:42 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Ron Paul shut that argument down in the primary when he asked the question- if heroin is legal tomorrow are you going to go get some?

The law against drugs is not the reason people do not do drugs.

Would apply that to being gay and the 'choice'- if gay marriage is a perfectly free and open option one day and no one gets flak for it I am still not going to consider a guy for a partner.  

Drug laws will affect drug use about as much as gay marriage laws will affect the numbers of gay people.  As I said before- pot was much easier to get than alcohol for the youngsters- and still is I am sure.   Not too many dangerous alcohol cartels either- NOT ANYMORE

here is the way i view it.  there are two categories of drug consumers: the casual user, and the addict.  let's take them one at a time.

most people, even the majority of HEROIN users, are not addicts.  therefore, MOST people are casual users.  they have day jobs.  they have families.  they go to school.  they have degrees.  they are teachers, firefighters, paramedics, basketball players, machinists, and stay at home moms.  in other words, they are pretty much like everybody else. 

the second group is sick.  they need help.  they need intradiction (sic) and treatment.

now, i ask you: how does criminalizing drug use/abuse help EITHER ONE of these groups?

Of course the smart question is who is benefiting from the law.....that's a history lesson- and one that a lot of voters are unaware of. We are the USA after all- we tried to outlaw BEER! What good did that law- and not even a law- a freaking amendment-do for anyone at all? I suppose we were laughed at back then much as we are now when it comes to our health care system, gun laws, or the treatment of workers.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 5, 2014 1:10:06 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Mar 5, 2014 0:52:16 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

here is the way i view it.  there are two categories of drug consumers: the casual user, and the addict.  let's take them one at a time.

most people, even the majority of HEROIN users, are not addicts.  therefore, MOST people are casual users.  they have day jobs.  they have families.  they go to school.  they have degrees.  they are teachers, firefighters, paramedics, basketball players, machinists, and stay at home moms.  in other words, they are pretty much like everybody else. 

the second group is sick.  they need help.  they need interdiction and treatment.

now, i ask you: how does criminalizing drug use/abuse help EITHER ONE of these groups?

Of course the smart question is who is benefiting from the law.....that's a history lesson- and one that a lot of voters are unaware of. We are the USA after all- we tried to outlaw BEER! What good did that law- and not even a law- a freaking amendment-do for anyone at all? I suppose we were laughed at back then much as we are now when it comes to our health care system, gun laws, or the treatment of workers.

the streets used to be paved with gold.  now, they are paved with corruption.

the war on drugs has destroyed way more lives than (illegal) drugs ever did.

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 4, 2014 22:13:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Virgil: you seem to think that people free to make bad choices will invariably make them.

why is that?

I don't think that at all. Nor does anything I've said thus far in this thread suggest I do.

Once again you're conflating arguments on morality with arguments on legality (or more specifically, the morality of a law). With the exception of my alluding to Pres. Lincoln's comments about respecting laws that are in force, which has nothing specific to do with pot, I haven't even mentioned the issue of legality in this thread.

did i? i would be interested in where i said that. you must have mistaken "i am free to do what i wish with my body" for "i think messing yourself up is great". i don't. i just don't think it is anyone else's business.

Same issue again here. I more or less agree with you that it's nobody else's business whether you smoke pot. Nor is it anyone's business if you routinely asphyxiate yourself in the pursuit of pleasure. Our difference of opinion comes in the morality of these actions. The fundamental rightness or wrongness of them, which persist regardless of whether there are laws prohibiting them or people around as witnesses.

You stated "no, [your position] pertains to the morality of it, and so does mine: that a person should be able to do whatever he wishes with his person or property so long as he does not harm the person or property of a non-consenting other is a moral position. according to that moral position, all drug use is permitted, as is bashing your face with a brick, committing suicide, etc.".

To me, "should be able to do" and "is permitted" clearly imply legality (you're talking about the morality of a law), but you insisted your position is on the same issue as mine: the morality of drug use. Hence I drew the only reasonable conclusion, which is to interpret "should be able to do" as "so long as a man should be able to do something, whether or not he actually does it has no bearing on the morality of it".

Now you seem to be saying that abusing the self is in fact immoral. Hence I'll ask you more directly: Irrespective of any worldly laws governing drug use, do you or do you not believe that man is subject to the intrinsic moral requirement to take good care of his mind and body? Do you or do you not believe that man, as a moral creature, should surely be a good steward of mind and body, and that he commits a moral transgression by being remiss in this responsibility?

i'll let you know when i am in one

Better think fast then.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 5, 2014 1:33:27 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

You stated "no, [your position] pertains to the morality of it, and so does mine: that a person should be able to do whatever he wishes with his person or property so long as he does not harm the person or property of a non-consenting other is a moral position. according to that moral position, all drug use is permitted, as is bashing your face with a brick, committing suicide, etc.".

To me, "should be able to do" and "is permitted" clearly imply legality (you're talking about the morality of a law), but you insisted your position is on the same issue as mine: the morality of drug use. Hence I drew the only reasonable conclusion, which is to interpret "should be able to do" as "so long as a man should be able to do something, whether or not he actually does it has no bearing on the morality of it".

no, but it has a great deal to say about the morality of laws which gird that freedom.  if a person should be able to do something, and the state prevents them from doing it, it is the law itself that is immoral.  that was the position i was taking.

Now you seem to be saying that abusing the self is in fact immoral.

no, i never said whether it was moral or immoral.  what i claimed is that our bodies are ours.  i know you disagree with that.  i understand that your position comes from the moral edict that the body is the temple and should not be desecrated.  my morals say that my freedom is sacred and should not be desecrated.  i understand that those are potentially in conflict.  you would resolve that tension one way, i another.

you earlier said that tatoos and obsesity were also desecration.  should they be illegal?  if not, why not?

Hence I'll ask you more directly: Irrespective of any worldly laws governing drug use, do you or do you not believe that man is subject to the intrinsic moral requirement to take good care of his mind and body?

no.  i think it is situational, not absolute.  in MY situation, it would be wrong (or immoral, if you prefer) to sacrifice my body, as too many others depend on me.  if i were single, or ill, or dying, i would have no such qualms or scruples.

Do you or do you not believe that man, as a moral creature, should surely be a good steward of mind and body, and that he commits a moral transgression by being remiss in this responsibility?

i don't see drug use as necessarily a transgression.  then you have Amy Winehouse.

i'll let you know when i am in one

Better think fast then.

i would bet you double or nothing on the bet that you are about to lose that the US will not have socialized medicine in the next decade, but i don't like bets that might outlast my stay here. 

[EVT1]

I respect your opinion Virgil- but I have a hard time figuring out whether you think that it is ok for a government to impose a law based on a particular moral belief or code, or not. 

You mention a fundamental right or wrong that exists regardless of laws- problem is that is in debate.

I also take issue that man is a moral creature- not even close.  A cat has more morals if you ask me- animals do not have the capacity to hate, to lie, cheat, and steal (and I know some animals use deception and trickery)- but not like we do. 

I think it was Carlin or another comic that said if no one was looking they would rather feed a starving animal than a starving baby if no one was looking- and the other said they would if people were looking.

I am just about in that camp- rooting for the destruction of the human race because we are worse than any other form of life on the planet- the depths of the inhumanity our culture sinks to is so damn low that the good of us I think does not outweigh the bad sufficiently enough to keep the show going. 

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Not trying to interject here, I haven't read the whole thread, most of it, but I'm just wondering if cannabinoid receptors have been brought up? As in, cannabis is a naturally occurring fruit bearing plant and there are receptors in the brain that are designed for it. Almost like G-d planted it, and also gave us the ability to handle it.

[Virgil Showlion]

i don't see drug use as necessarily a transgression.

Neither do I. And I've spent at least a third of the thread outlining where and why I consider drug use justifiable.

if a person should be able to do something, and the state prevents them from doing it, it is the law itself that is immoral. that was the position i was taking.

Fine. If that's the sum of your argument, I (more or less) agree with you.

you earlier said that tatoos and obsesity were also desecration. should they be illegal? if not, why not?

No, I don't think they should be illegal. As for "why not", I refer you to one of our many previous discussions on the legality of vice. I'm not interested in discussing worldly laws in this thread.

I think it was Carlin or another comic that said if no one was looking they would rather feed a starving animal than a starving baby if no one was looking- and the other said they would if people were looking.

I am just about in that camp- rooting for the destruction of the human race because we are worse than any other form of life on the planet- the depths of the inhumanity our culture sinks to is so damn low that the good of us I think does not outweigh the bad sufficiently enough to keep the show going.

I'll just say "no comment".

Misanthropy isn't exactly uncommon in the 21st century.

[Virgil Showlion]

Mar 5, 2014 1:56:11 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Not trying to interject here, I haven't read the whole thread, most of it, but I'm just wondering if cannabinoid receptors have been brought up? As in, cannabis is a naturally occurring fruit bearing plant and there are receptors in the brain that are designed for it. Almost like G-d planted it, and also gave us the ability to handle it.

"Cannabinoids" refers to a large class of molecules which includes several neurotransmitters (e.g. anandamide) produced naturally in the human body. They're called "cannabinoids" because they activate cannabinoid receptors, and the receptors are called "cannabinoid receptors" because THC was the first molecule officially discovered to activate them.

Hence, although cannabis possesses a wide range of medicinal properties that God undoubtedly knew man would make use of, saying that man is "designed for it" is a bit like saying that man is designed for apples, peaches, and plums. We can only speculate how much the design of one influenced the design of another.

[EVT1]

I am probably a huge misanthrope- that's fair.  And to the human race- you have earned it in spades.

We use our knowledge to figure out more efficient ways to kill other people or rape them financially.  That is why we are doomed. 

And in a turnaround opinion- I think the only way we avoid dying out will be through private companies- not the ones looking for profit- the ones that want to explore and have the extra bank to do it. 

I am a cynic for sure- but I love the Far side cartoon- why the cynic outlives the optimist-- was a cease fire and one side offered a hand of peace and the other side offered a rifle with a hand on the end of it.


BTW if you believe in God then it was completely in 'his' power to allow or disallow homosexuality- if you buy creation then gay folks are part of the plan

[mmhmm]

I am just about in that camp- rooting for the destruction of the human race because we are worse than any other form of life on the planet- the depths of the inhumanity our culture sinks to is so damn low that the good of us I think does not outweigh the bad sufficiently enough to keep the show going.

It always makes me a little sad to read this sort of thing, EVT.  I've worked with people facing situations that would seem to be almost insurmountable.  I've seen kindness, and courage, and strength of purpose that astounded me.  I've had the dying worry that I might not be getting enough sleep!  Have I seen the other side?  Of course.  However, in my experience I've found the opposite of what you seem to have found.  I've found the good to far outweigh the ugly.  At my age, I strongly doubt anything will change my take on the human race.  While we can be pretty darned disgusting, as a whole, we can also be absolutely beautiful.  I embrace the latter and battle the former - always remembering for what I'm doing battle.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Mar 5, 2014 2:26:14 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Mar 5, 2014 1:56:11 GMT -5 Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger said:

Not trying to interject here, I haven't read the whole thread, most of it, but I'm just wondering if cannabinoid receptors have been brought up? As in, cannabis is a naturally occurring fruit bearing plant and there are receptors in the brain that are designed for it. Almost like G-d planted it, and also gave us the ability to handle it.

"Cannabinoids" refers to a large class of molecules which includes several neurotransmitters (e.g. anandamide) produced naturally in the human body. They're called "cannabinoids" because they activate cannabinoid receptors, and the receptors are called "cannabinoid receptors" because THC was the first molecule officially discovered to activate them.

Hence, although cannabis possesses a wide range of medicinal properties that God undoubtedly knew man would make use of, saying that man is "designed for it" is a bit like saying that man is designed for apples, peaches, and plums. We can only speculate how much the design of one influenced the design of another.

Ah yes, respect.  That's exactly it my man.  As you pointed out, water can kill you. 

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Mar 5, 2014 9:14:18 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I am just about in that camp- rooting for the destruction of the human race because we are worse than any other form of life on the planet- the depths of the inhumanity our culture sinks to is so damn low that the good of us I think does not outweigh the bad sufficiently enough to keep the show going.

It always makes me a little sad to read this sort of thing, EVT.  I've worked with people facing situations that would seem to be almost insurmountable.  I've seen kindness, and courage, and strength of purpose that astounded me.  I've had the dying worry that I might not be getting enough sleep!  Have I seen the other side?  Of course.  However, in my experience I've found the opposite of what you seem to have found.  I've found the good to far outweigh the ugly.  At my age, I strongly doubt anything will change my take on the human race.  While we can be pretty darned disgusting, as a whole, we can also be absolutely beautiful.  I embrace the latter and battle the former - always remembering for what I'm doing battle.

Well said mmhmm!  I'm not trying to turn this conversation, but there is only so far we can deviate off the path before, just like children, our father spanks our little rear ends..    Stay   and keep up the good fight!

[sesfw]

Some HOA's are just filled with jerks- a lot of them really

There are some HOAs that are run like ??, and others that take care of the common area.  Personally I don't want to smell pot from next door, nor do I want my kids to smell it at home.  Home should be a place where kids can find stability from the craziness of the outside world.

[cereb]

Feb 27, 2014 23:07:12 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

you would have to understand the number of times I've heard the "pot never killed anybody" claim and had to address its statistical impossibility.

Think of how you felt when Pres. Obama published his birth certificate online, after you'd suffered through approximately 70 million claims that it didn't exist.

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pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody pot never killed anybody

[sesfw]

Obama published his birth certificate online

Still wondering about the hospital name that didn't exist until 2 years after bho's birth.

[Tennesseer]

Mar 9, 2014 16:36:07 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Obama published his birth certificate online

Still wondering about the hospital name that didn't exist until 2 years after bho's birth.

What is there in question?

[mmhmm]

Mar 9, 2014 16:36:07 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Obama published his birth certificate online

Still wondering about the hospital name that didn't exist until 2 years after bho's birth.

Whaaaat?  The newspaper had an announcement of the birth.  They had it on microfiche.  They published it and the date was there.

[billisonboard]

Mar 9, 2014 16:36:07 GMT -5 sesfw said:

Obama published his birth certificate online

Still wondering about the hospital name that didn't exist until 2 years after bho's birth.

Thus, there is no discrepancy, at least on the name of the birth hospital.
Read more at www.wnd.com/2011/04/292577/#BimJmYirZqdq3tJf.99

If WorldNetDaily doesn't back up the conspiracy, ...

[tallguy]

If WorldNetDaily doesn't back up the conspiracy, ...

Yeah, because they'll back just about anything....  

[mmhmm]

I find it hard to believe there are some people who just won't let this go.  The man's birth was announced in the newspapers.  The hospital in which he was born has had the same name since the early 1930s.  The president was born in Hawaii to an American mother and a Kenyan father.  This "birther" nonsense is ludicrous!