Study: Yes, Pot Can Kill People (with Morbidities)

[mmhmm]

Heart Problem (Underlying Condition) + Marijuana Use (Stressor) = Death in at least two case studies. That's the bottom line.

Let's take a look at the real bottom line.

This is what the article actually says:

The cases involved two outwardly healthy young men, aged 23 and 28, who died unexpectedly after smoking cannabis.

Autopsies showed that the younger man had a serious undetected heart problem and the older one had a history of alcohol, amphetamine and cocaine abuse.

These underlying conditions, combined with cannabis's known effect of increasing a user's heart rate or blood pressure when lying down, may have caused the men's hearts to lose their rhythm.

Dr. Benno Hartung, one of the study's authors, said the cases were among 15 deaths the scientists reviewed between 2011 and 2012. In 13 of them, other factors likely were to blame.

"We assume that these are very rare, isolated cases," Hartung said in an email to The Associated Press on Wednesday, noting that it was hard to draw any wider conclusion about the number of deaths that might be caused by cannabis use."

Still, the researchers concluded that while cannabis isn't particularly toxic and its effects are short lived, people who are at high risk for cardiovascular diseases should avoid the drug.

[grits]

Mar 4, 2014 0:06:04 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Mar 3, 2014 23:07:09 GMT -5 grits said:

Some things were accepted but not socially okay. Later, they became illegal. Injuries from the Civil War turned many into drug addicts. A lot of the idle rich used opiates.

 I have seen too many lives destroyed, and even people killed by hard drug users. A friend's daughter was hit head on by an idiot who was on coke. He went up the exit ramp of the interstate, and she was killed. He got off with a few minor injuries, and a couple of years in prison.

I was hit from behind by a known crack head.  He got a ticket for speeding, and not stopping. I got permanent injuries, unending pain, and am becoming disabled.

i am sorry for your troubles, but i still want pot legalized.

I had switched over to talking about hard drugs. 

You can bet the Department of Agriculture will play a big role in regulating legalized pot.  They can even direct what types of seeds, plants, and such can be sold.  Just because it becomes legal does not mean it will be a free party with whatever anyone wants. They can even get involved in who is allowed to grow it, and how much they are allowed to grow just like they do other crops.  

[Virgil Showlion]

Still, the researchers concluded that while cannabis isn't particularly toxic and its effects are short lived, people who are at high risk for cardiovascular diseases should avoid the drug.

That's the bottom line for me. And also literally the bottom line.

[mmhmm]

Mar 4, 2014 20:44:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Still, the researchers concluded that while cannabis isn't particularly toxic and its effects are short lived, people who are at high risk for cardiovascular diseases should avoid the drug.

That's the bottom line for me. And also literally the bottom line.

It's a good bottom line.  There are all sorts of things people who are at high risk for cardiovascular diseases should avoid!  The younger man, however, would not have known he was at high risk.  His problem, apparently, was undiscovered at the time.  Genetic heart deficiencies are often not known until something happens.

[billisonboard]

Mar 4, 2014 15:43:28 GMT -5 sesfw said:

... They want their hours changed to 8am to 8pm Monday through Saturday to be closer to the hours allowed in other towns in the valley.  My thought is if they don't like the hours imposed by the town council then move to a town more to their liking.  No one is stopping them.
They are choosing to stay in this town, therefore they are choosing to abide by the laws.  They knew it when they petitioned to open shop here.

... the right of the people ... to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[grits]

Mar 4, 2014 20:19:14 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

They have a marginal point- weed is pretty strong smell- but it isn't causing any problems so deal with it- maybe your vegetarian neighbors don't want to smell your barbecue.  These HOA's banning all smoke or just pot I wonder?  Some HOA's are just filled with jerks- a lot of them really.  My folks have one- and it is horrible.

If you move into a subdivision with a HOA, you have to abide by the terms established. If you don't want to do that, don't move there. Some of those things can take you to court, and make life hell for you.

Personally, I don't think your neighbor should have to stay inside to not smell your pot smoke.  Smoke it in your own house, and car.

BBQ smoke may make you drool but it won't get you high.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 4, 2014 20:44:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Still, the researchers concluded that while cannabis isn't particularly toxic and its effects are short lived, people who are at high risk for cardiovascular diseases should avoid the drug.

That's the bottom line for me. And also literally the bottom line.

they should also avoid vigorous exercise, and in some cases sex and aspirin, for the same reason.

[djAdvocate]

Mar 4, 2014 20:17:23 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

if you are ready to receive enlightenment, then it will be there for you. if you are just tripping, then that is all you will get. that goes for religion, as well.

You can stick to getting high; I'll stick to study, prayer, and meditation. Best of luck to the both of us in our quest for enlightenment.

no need to personalize it.  i wasn't.  i don't smoke for enlightenment.  i have had precisely one toke in the last six months.

what a person chooses to do with it is their own affair, including "risks".

You've already said that you see no moral requirement for good stewardship of the body,

did i?  i would be interested in where i said that.  you must have mistaken "i am free to do what i wish with my body" for "i think messing yourself up is great".  i don't.  i just don't think it is anyone else's business.

and that according to your moral position, "all drug use is permitted, as is bashing your face with a brick, committing suicide, etc.".

Obviously we're not going to agree on the issue.

you like saying that- but i don't know why.  i LIKE disagreement.  it makes the discussions far more lively.

I'm not sure how you'd justify your position in a socialist healthcare system

i'll let you know when i am in one.

, considering you (the taxpayer) have to pay for any damage or abuse I willfully incur to my body.

not that it is any of your concern, but i pay way more into the system than i get out of it.  i suspect that will always be the case, but i am not going to use myself for illustration any further than i already have.

And socialism or no, a straightforward application of Kant's imperative (whereby healthcare costs skyrocket due to excessive demand in an unhealthy population) clearly makes self-abuse 'unethical' by your preferred standard.

ibid

[djAdvocate]

Virgil: you seem to think that people free to make bad choices will invariably make them.

why is that?

[grits]

Mar 4, 2014 22:13:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Virgil: you seem to think that people free to make bad choices will invariably make them.

why is that?

Maybe, he follows the actions of the leaders of both of the US's major political parties.    

[EVT1]

Mar 4, 2014 21:26:35 GMT -5 grits said:

Mar 4, 2014 20:19:14 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

They have a marginal point- weed is pretty strong smell- but it isn't causing any problems so deal with it- maybe your vegetarian neighbors don't want to smell your barbecue.  These HOA's banning all smoke or just pot I wonder?  Some HOA's are just filled with jerks- a lot of them really.  My folks have one- and it is horrible.

If you move into a subdivision with a HOA, you have to abide by the terms established. If you don't want to do that, don't move there. Some of those things can take you to court, and make life hell for you.

Personally, I don't think your neighbor should have to stay inside to not smell your pot smoke.  Smoke it in your own house, and car.

BBQ smoke may make you drool but it won't get you high.

 Some neighbor smoking a doobie is going to get other neighbors in smell distance high?  Been to a concert (a good one)?  Did the air get you high?

I could burn a Cheech and Chong size hooter in a car with the windows up and you would not get high. All it will do is ensure you and your clothes smell like weed to a distance of 10 feet or so depending on quality

And trust me I know all about the HOAs- would never live anywhere with one- my folks had to have their shingle choice approved when they did the roof.  And don't even think about parking a car wrong- you will get a nasty letter- with a warning at the end of it.

[grits]

Are you at least 54? I set on the grass in Astroworld's outdoor theater for a Dr. Hook concert. The pot was so strong everybody was getting buzzed. You just had to breathe to get high.

[grits]

Mar 4, 2014 22:35:41 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Mar 4, 2014 21:26:35 GMT -5 grits said:

If you move into a subdivision with a HOA, you have to abide by the terms established. If you don't want to do that, don't move there. Some of those things can take you to court, and make life hell for you.

Personally, I don't think your neighbor should have to stay inside to not smell your pot smoke.  Smoke it in your own house, and car.

BBQ smoke may make you drool but it won't get you high.

 Some neighbor smoking a doobie is going to get other neighbors in smell distance high?  Been to a concert (a good one)?  Did the air get you high?

I could burn a Cheech and Chong size hooter in a car with the windows up and you would not get high. All it will do is ensure you and your clothes smell like weed to a distance of 10 feet or so depending on quality

And trust me I know all about the HOAs- would never live anywhere with one- my folks had to have their shingle choice approved when they did the roof.  And don't even think about parking a car wrong- you will get a nasty letter- with a warning at the end of it.

You are buying the cheap stuff.  If you are going to irritate your lungs with smoke, spring for the good stuff.          

[EVT1]

Mar 4, 2014 22:13:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Virgil: you seem to think that people free to make bad choices will invariably make them.

why is that?

Ron Paul shut that argument down in the primary when he asked the question- if heroin is legal tomorrow are you going to go get some?

The law against drugs is not the reason people do not do drugs.

Would apply that to being gay and the 'choice'- if gay marriage is a perfectly free and open option one day and no one gets flak for it I am still not going to consider a guy for a partner.  

Drug laws will affect drug use about as much as gay marriage laws will affect the numbers of gay people.  As I said before- pot was much easier to get than alcohol for the youngsters- and still is I am sure.   Not too many dangerous alcohol cartels either- NOT ANYMORE

[steff]

Mar 4, 2014 22:41:11 GMT -5 grits said:

Are you at least 54? I set on the grass in Astroworld's outdoor theater for a Dr. Hook concert. The pot was so strong everybody was getting buzzed. You just had to breathe to get high.

an Astroworld concert got you buzzed?   Good thing you never went to a concert at the Summit then.  LOL


but seriously, you're in Houston?  My hometown! 

[grits]

Mar 4, 2014 22:45:42 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Mar 4, 2014 22:13:15 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Virgil: you seem to think that people free to make bad choices will invariably make them.

why is that?

Ron Paul shut that argument down in the primary when he asked the question- if heroin is legal tomorrow are you going to go get some?

The law against drugs is not the reason people do not do drugs.

Would apply that to being gay and the 'choice'- if gay marriage is a perfectly free and open option one day and no one gets flak for it I am still not going to consider a guy for a partner.  

Drug laws will affect drug use about as much as gay marriage laws will affect the numbers of gay people.  As I said before- pot was much easier to get than alcohol for the youngsters- and still is I am sure.   Not too many dangerous alcohol cartels either- NOT ANYMORE

It is for a lot of people I know.  More than one person has said to me that if the state legalized pot they'd like to try it just once.  They aren't going to until it is legalized.

Personally, I am not interested in holding my face centimeters from a trash fire, and inhaling the smoke.    

[EVT1]

Mar 4, 2014 22:41:11 GMT -5 grits said:

Are you at least 54? I set on the grass in Astroworld's outdoor theater for a Dr. Hook concert. The pot was so strong everybody was getting buzzed. You just had to breathe to get high.

Hell no- not even 44.  And I do not know who Dr. Hook is- the smokiest concert I went to was probably Jimmy Buffett or Yes (actually it was Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, and Howe) and both were outdoor shows- but after the first concert I went to I knew when I smelled reefer from then out- and it was my Dad that explained during my first one what that smell was.  It was so funny back then that all of these folks were passing it around and flouting the law- and no one did anything about it- the spotlights would hit the crowd and it was nothing but a giant smoke cloud
 

[grits]

Mar 4, 2014 22:47:39 GMT -5 steff said:

Mar 4, 2014 22:41:11 GMT -5 grits said:

Are you at least 54? I set on the grass in Astroworld's outdoor theater for a Dr. Hook concert. The pot was so strong everybody was getting buzzed. You just had to breathe to get high.

an Astroworld concert got you buzzed?   Good thing you never went to a concert at the Summit then.  LOL


but seriously, you're in Houston?  My hometown! 

Steff, I said it was in the open theater. It was kind of bowl shaped. No, I didn't get buzzed. I moved away from it. Others I knew did get buzzed. They sat in the middle of it, and just inhaled as deeply as they could.

Getting buzzed just doesn't do anything for me.  I am who I am. 

I am going to Houston Thursday for a couple of days. It is an easy getaway spot for me. I want to go watch Rice play baseball but the oak trees are in full bloom, and it is like poison to me.  I am a member of the art museum, and museum of natural science.  I want to spend some time in the Cockrell Butterfly Center.  I once had a giant white butterfly slowly fly past, and brush my lips.

[grits]

Mar 4, 2014 22:55:51 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Mar 4, 2014 22:41:11 GMT -5 grits said:

Are you at least 54? I set on the grass in Astroworld's outdoor theater for a Dr. Hook concert. The pot was so strong everybody was getting buzzed. You just had to breathe to get high.

Hell no- not even 44.  And I do not know who Dr. Hook is- the smokiest concert I went to was probably Jimmy Buffett or Yes (actually it was Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, and Howe) and both were outdoor shows- but after the first concert I went to I knew when I smelled reefer from then out- and it was my Dad that explained during my first one what that smell was.  It was so funny back then that all of these folks were passing it around and flouting the law- and no one did anything about it- the spotlights would hit the crowd and it was nothing but a giant smoke cloud
 

You should have gone to the high school I attended.  If you walked too close to some of the restrooms, and someone opened a door, you'd smell like a joint for hours.

[billisonboard]

[EVT1]

Mar 4, 2014 22:50:41 GMT -5 grits said:

Mar 4, 2014 22:45:42 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Ron Paul shut that argument down in the primary when he asked the question- if heroin is legal tomorrow are you going to go get some?

The law against drugs is not the reason people do not do drugs.

Would apply that to being gay and the 'choice'- if gay marriage is a perfectly free and open option one day and no one gets flak for it I am still not going to consider a guy for a partner.  

Drug laws will affect drug use about as much as gay marriage laws will affect the numbers of gay people.  As I said before- pot was much easier to get than alcohol for the youngsters- and still is I am sure.   Not too many dangerous alcohol cartels either- NOT ANYMORE

It is for a lot of people I know.  More than one person has said to me that if the state legalized pot they'd like to try it just once.  They aren't going to until it is legalized.

Personally, I am not interested in holding my face centimeters from a trash fire, and inhaling the smoke.    

I don't buy that- my mom is a very Christian and conservative lady- doesn't drink more than maybe one bloody mary a year- but admitted she tried a little pot. Cannot fathom anyone that would not try it based on the law alone- maybe they would never buy any but if some pal of theirs lit one up at a New Year's Eve party.......

[grits]

Mar 4, 2014 23:02:19 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Mar 4, 2014 22:50:41 GMT -5 grits said:

It is for a lot of people I know.  More than one person has said to me that if the state legalized pot they'd like to try it just once.  They aren't going to until it is legalized.

Personally, I am not interested in holding my face centimeters from a trash fire, and inhaling the smoke.    

I don't buy that- my mom is a very Christian and conservative lady- doesn't drink more than maybe one bloody mary a year- but admitted she tried a little pot. Cannot fathom anyone that would not try it based on the law alone- maybe they would never buy any but if some pal of theirs lit one up at a New Year's Eve party.......

You should buy it.  You aren't even from the same generation.  There are still people who choose to abide by the law.  They have a respect for basic laws that you may not understand. BTW, this should make you cry, a baggie of good stuff used to cost $5.

[EVT1]

Mar 4, 2014 22:59:58 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Interesting- reminds me of Arlo Guthrie or other storytelling type music-what does Shel Silverstein have to do with it- remember his cartoon books when I was a kid.

[steff]

I've only been to 1 concert that I didn't at least smell pot, and it was Huey Lewis & the News.  Also goes down as the most boring concert I've ever been to, everyone stayed sitting in their seats the entire show.  Was just strange. 


grits, being stoned doesn't mean one doesn't enjoy those same things.  When we lived in Houston, I often went to the museums to see certain traveling exhibits that interested me.  Going to the planetarium was an almost weekly thing for years.  We love sports & went to Astros & Rockets games.  There was no football team when we moved, I'm a bitter Oilers fan. 

Since moving to Georgia, we still go to the museums, I've seen Broadway shows at the Fox Theater, love the historical sites all thru the South East.  And I still go to concerts & get stoned.  I have tickets for Motley Crue in August for my birthday. 

The idea that a stoner is some brain dead moron sitting on a couch drooling simply isn't reality for many pot smokers.  We just giggle more often & aren't as anal over every little thing. 

[grits]

Steff, who said one thing about stoners not enjoying the same things?  Where did you get an idea like that?  I was just saying stuff about Houston. It was totally unrelated to pot use. You said you were originally from there, and I was talking about places I thought you'd relate too.

[EVT1]

I will give you this- the main reason that I rarely smoke any- is not the law- well in a way it is- it is because where I work.  They drug test for anything- and if they didn't I would probably still not do it on any kind of regular basis- but would like the freedom to.  I hate that- I cannot do what I want on my own time because it will leave evidence in my body that my employer can find and fire me for- and that is control of personal life by a corporation.  I expect a lot of litigation in the future in states that have legalized it- but until the feds act companies are going to default to that law (BY CHOICE).  Always a game with them- state law is fantastic when it comes to bypassing usury laws but screw the states when it comes to employee freedom or consumer rights.  I hope they fix it.  Especially for those with prescriptions- firing them over drug testing is disgusting- as in the Wal-Mart case- they guy had terminal cancer I think and instead of being on disability he was working a job- and doing it well- but they had to fire him because of the drug testing policy which stated that the doctor's opinions do not matter as the drug is still illegal under federal law- blah blah bullshit excuse.

[billisonboard]

Mar 4, 2014 23:08:52 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

...-what does Shel Silverstein have to do with it-...

[grits]

Did you ever stop to think that Walmart may have fired him because they thought he ran up the insurance costs?  The other may have just been an excuse.

There are some jobs where safety is of such importance that you must be totally free of any mind altering drug. A place here uses giant cranes, and other extreme equipment. The men work at extreme heights too. They operate fabricating units, and weld too. They randomly drug test everybody that works for them. They even test supervisors, and security. If you call in sick for a payday weekend, you can expect to be tested on Monday morning.  Some fools still do it, and lose their job come Monday.

[EVT1]

He wasn't using it on the clock.  Manager didn't want to fire him either.  Corporate policy- one of those zero tolerance things.

[steff]

My hubby works in production & is a superintendent.  He was drug tested for the job & he is randomly drug tested...so therefore, he doesn't smoke.  He did smoke every so often before.  Luckily, I can do my job stoned and I don't get drug tested.  LoL