What Is The Definition Of An Arguement

[les63]

Between you and your spouse and or live-in? Example for me:

Me: When you finish the milk, why can't you rinse out the container?

Me: When you're done with a knife (from using it for mayo), why can't you rinse it off and put it in the dishwasher?

Him: I don't want to get into an argument .

Okaaay. I guess I need better communication skills.

These are just some simple things that DH could do. He's not doing much else. And I do mean NOT much else.

How are things at your house?

[Cass]

Oh boy.  We just had the same day, but I was on your husband's end. 

A) Shaking out the welcome mat never even occurred to me

B) If it's so important to you, you could just do it yourself

Argument ensues.  Oy. 

[giramomma]

Feb 25, 2014 20:47:00 GMT -5 les63 said:

Between you and your spouse and or live-in? Example for me:

Me: When you finish the milk, why can't you rinse out the container?

Me: When you're done with a knife (from using it for mayo), why can't you rinse it off and put it in the dishwasher?

Him: I don't want to get into an argument .

Okaaay. I guess I need better communication skills.

These are just some simple things that DH could do. He's not doing much else. And I do mean NOT much else.

How are things at your house?

When I want to smack my DH, I still use the word "please."

If my H told me "why can't you?" I'd immediately be on the defensive and basically shut him down. I know he would feel the same.

However, if my H says "Would you please rise out the container after you are done with the milk" or "Would you please put the dishes away in the dishwasher after you use them.  I'd try a little harder.

We do our best to model politeness between each other. We feel that it's important for the kids to see, even if we aren't happy with each other.

Why can't you" implies that you are doing something wrong, or are incapable of doing something. I grew up in a house where someone was right (mom) and the rest of us were wrong (dad and me.) It freaking sucked. Beyond words. And, yes, we just slunk away to avoid any further discussion.

ETA: How's it going in our household? Well, DH is having a rough time with holding down the fort by himself as my work load has increased over the last month. DH didn't work yesterday, and it was all he could do to get the groceries, take care of the littlest, and then manage all three kids after school to bedtime, including the bedtime routine that I normally have done. Yes, there were dishes in the sink this morning. Yes, I chose to turn a blind eye, even though taking care of the home with the daily stuff falls under his jurisdiction.

[sunshinegal1981]

^^^   What she said.   "Why can't you..." is inflammatory.

[les63]

I dunno, I just think that is a no brainier? We've been married almost ten years and have lived together for fourteen.

I should have ran away screaming after our before marriage questionaire. He was marrying me because I was a good housekeeper.

[swamp]

Feb 25, 2014 21:19:08 GMT -5 les63 said:

I dunno, I just think that is a no brainier? We've been married almost ten years and have lived together for fourteen.

I should have ran away screaming after our before marriage questionaire. He was marrying me because I was a good housekeeper.

It is a no brainer but you still get more cooperation by not being inflammatory or accusatory.  You catch more flies with sugar than vinegar. 

[giramomma]

Feb 25, 2014 21:19:08 GMT -5 les63 said:

I dunno, I just think that is a no brainier? We've been married almost ten years and have lived together for fourteen.

I should have ran away screaming after our before marriage questionaire. He was marrying me because I was a good housekeeper.

Yes, for the most part, staying on top of normal tidying is a no-brainer.  I'm not talking about the subject matter. I'm talking about the delivery.

I have a hard time picking up after myself. Seriously, I'm an out of sight, out of mind type of girl. And so is my oldest child. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Again, I would be much more receptive to my husband if he said "Would you please try to put away your christmas crafts, soon." Rather than "Geez, why can't you even finish a project. Why is it so hard for you to put your stuff away?"

ETA: Would you want to be around a person who implies you are a failure? Engage in any conversation with them? I'm guessing most people would say no.

[Deleted]

When I don't feel like picking up or cleaning after anyone, I don't. I allow whatever is not picked up to pile up, and whatever is not cleaned, to remain until the culprit discovers their own dirty offenses to me. 

[les63]

Ok, men must have NO common sense. So "us" women folk must teach them's the way of the world.

Okaaaaaay. Guess men have not learned shit from their moms or whoever in the last twenty years or more.

Waaaaaaaa. Poor men. F' um.

[Tiny]

Feb 25, 2014 21:08:10 GMT -5 giramomma said:

"Why can't you" implies that you are doing something wrong, or are incapable of doing something. I grew up in a house where someone was right (mom) and the rest of us were wrong (dad and me.) It freaking sucked. Beyond words. And, yes, we just slunk away to avoid any further discussion.
 

This is how I grew up as well. I cringed alittle reading the OP and she's not even my Mother.     There are some buttons that can forever be pushed.

Your hubby views this as an arguement probably because there's gonna be a winner and a loser as the outcome.  Either you "win" when he cleans up after himself  OR you win if he attempts to make an 'excuse' for why he didn't immediately clean up after himself  which leaves him open for potential additional 'beating up' if you trot out previous stuff he didn't do OR stuff he could be doing in the future.  He's doesn't stand a chance of winning this 'arguement'   .      

If I did say something like "I don't want to argue" back to my Mom after I got a "Why can't you just...." it was followed up by Mom with a "I'm not arguing - you are the one who's being difficult/whatever" and if you continued to engage it would devolve into a litany of one's failings.

Not saying you would do that... but that's how it want at my house.   I did once attempt to remedy something that generated a "Why can't you...."  only to ALSO be rewarded with a litany of my failings, so, since I was damned if I did or damned if I didn't I went the less painful route of escaping quickly.    

To avoid getting into a 'win/lose' situation you may want to work on your phrasing of your request - I think all of us reading this know you aren't intentionally being antagonistic towards your hubby (sometimes my Mom would be intentionally antagonistic...)   So, that means you simply have a failure to communicate.    There's been some good suggestions on how to remove the win/lose from the request. 

I'd also suggest to keep trying the 'new script' that you come up with.  It might be met with suspicion (I know I'd be suspicious when my Mom would change tactics... cause there was some  trap waiting to be sprung) and disbelief.  Don't give it up if the first time doesn't work out...   Just keep it up for a while. 

[Pants]

Les - you are under a lot of stress. We get that. But everyone else is right when they say "Why can't you..." is argumentative. If you rephrase to "Please ..." you would probably avoid the argumentative accusation.

Then again, maybe not, because if I was in your situation with your husband I know every single word out of my mouth would be seething with rage and resentment, even if that word was "Please."

[sunshinegal1981]

Feb 25, 2014 21:30:42 GMT -5 les63 said:

Ok, men must have NO common sense. So "us" women folk must teach them's the way of the world.

Okaaaaaay. Guess men have not learned shit from their moms or whoever in the last twenty years or more.

Waaaaaaaa. Poor men. F' um.

From the phrasing of this post, obviously there's a much bigger underlying issue than someone not picking up after himself.


ETA: And from bsbound's reply, I guess this backstory is common knowledge to everyone but me?  

[stillmovingforward]

I'm going to agree about the inflammatory language.  And it goes either way between sexes.  I've said before, there are major issues in my marriage that I am working on resolving with a spouse who refuses counseling (but appears to be trying to remedy his issues).  Language has a lot to do with the root of our problems which I am learning thru my own counseling.  And this work on language has the added benefit of helping my leadership role at work as well!

Remember that language is VERY powerful!

Instead try: I need you to rinse the milk container out when its empty.  I need you to put the knife away when you are done.  I need.............

Because these are YOUR needs, not his.  He DOESN'T need to do any of this.  YOU need him to. 

People tend to be less combative when you articulate your needs instead to telling them what they need to do.  In the past few years, since I have learned this, my work crew has been the easiest to manage, more cost-effective, and taken on larger projects while surpassing managements expectations.  We fail a lot still, but we try hard and its a 'happy fail' because its obvious we tried hard. 

Its all in the delivery

[whoisjohngalt]

We don't argue about household things anymore.   I/we found a way around that. 

We now only argue about big things, like his parents and everything surrounding that.  And when I say "argue", I really mean a full blown HUGE fight.  thankfully, our neighbors are too far away to hear it.

[swasat]

Feb 25, 2014 22:08:48 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

We don't argue about household things anymore.   I/we found a way around that. 

We now only argue about big things, like his parents and everything surrounding that.  And when I say "argue", I really mean a full blown HUGE fight.  thankfully, our neighbors are too far away to hear it.

LMAO!! Too funny.

[swasat]

In our house, I am the anal, cleanliness and order loving person. And my husband is an awesome person who does his full share of household chores. In other words the chores I TELL him to do.

Yeah, thats exactly how it works in our world. If left to his own devices, he will not let the house go to the dogs, he is much to organized for that, but it will definitely not be as neat and organized it stays now. I like to be on top of things so I tell him what I want him to do. Things like: "Honey, put the butter in the fridge after you are done using it". "The sink is getting full. Please load the dishwasher before you leave for xyz." "Vacuum living room after dinner" etc.

My DH does very well if he knows what needs to be done. But to expect him to know by himself that there are chores pending, that would be like expecting a male to give birth.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Yeah, thats exactly how it works in our world. If left to his own devices, he will not let the house go to the dogs, he is much to organized for that, but it will definitely not be as neat and organized it stays now. I like to be on top of things so I tell him what I want him to do. Things like: "Honey, put the butter in the fridge after you are done using it". "The sink is getting full. Please load the dishwasher before you leave for xyz." "Vacuum living room after dinner" etc.

My DH does very well if he knows what needs to be done. But to expect him to know by himself that there are chores pending, that would be like expecting a male to give birth

That was basically DH and me - if he was asked to load (and start) the dishwasher or washing machine, or to vacuum, dust, etc - he as more than willing - but if I didn't ask, he didn't notice that it needed to be done. Since we were both working full-time, I didn't expect to come home and have to handle all the household tasks on my own - it was a 50/50 split when it came to all chores. If he was mowing the lawn, I'd be raking up the cuttings and bagging them - or vise-versa.

[swasat]

SL, its pretty much 50/50 for us too 

I like cooking, he hates it with a passion. So I cook, he willingly cleans up later.
I detest folding laundry. So we fold it together. 
He takes care of most outdoor stuff. I take care of most kids stuff.


I keep a whiteboard on the fridge. If I need him to do something when I am not home, I put it on there. He does the same. We both are in the habit of looking at it in the morning. That way, if there is something he or I could do during lunch break we do it. Things like buy xyz for kids school project, go to the post office etc. 

After hearing the stories of some people I feel quite blessed DH is such an equal partner.

[Peace Of Mind]

Feb 25, 2014 21:19:08 GMT -5 les63 said:

I dunno, I just think that is a no brainier? We've been married almost ten years and have lived together for fourteen.

I should have ran away screaming after our before marriage questionaire. He was marrying me because I was a good housekeeper.

It is a no brainer.  But it's still inflammatory and creates defensiveness  to point it out by the wording you use.  It is also a no brainer to treat people with respect and say please.  And just to be clear - Not saying "Look you lazy f___ing ass hole..." is even better - which I've done when I've been low on patience or not feeling well.   I'm on your side but it doesn't make either of us right.   

I had an older friend once tell me that when she starts getting really frustrated with her DH she starts treating him like she would a guest.  It defuses things.  The hard part for me is reining in the anger enough to care to do that when I'm feeling impatient and irritated with him.  I'm not even close to mastering that one but I do try it and it works.    

ETA:  Why is f___ing turning blue?  Is it a website?  LOL!!

[Abby Normal]

Dh and I don't argue much. But back in the early days of our marriage, he used to leave Coke cans on the counter.  He was able to come home for lunch and it really irritated me that he couldn't manage to put them in the recycle bin. Every day, I'd come home to cans on the counter. I tried asking him, yelling at him, and even throwing a few.  Finally, I got smart. I told him that for every Coke can I found on the counter, I was going to hang a pair of his pants wrong (so he'd have to iron them) as that was something that really irritated him.   A few days later, there they were again.  I walked in the closet and rearranged all his work pants.

Only took that once-  I never had another Coke can left on the counter.

[busymom]

Feb 25, 2014 21:30:42 GMT -5 les63 said:

Ok, men must have NO common sense. So "us" women folk must teach them's the way of the world.

Okaaaaaay. Guess men have not learned shit from their moms or whoever in the last twenty years or more.

Waaaaaaaa. Poor men. F' um.

  Some of the men I've met have NO common sense when it comes to housework.  Their own parents had never taught them a thing.  I was lucky to marry someone who at least knew how to do a load of laundry, & start dinner.  Better than ending up with someone who couldn't even boil a pot of water.    The ones who never got any instruction need some from their wives.  Or maybe a "how to" book.  You know, so you're not tempted to put 'em in the EE freezer. 

[busymom]

Oh, there was one thing I DID have to retrain DH on. He never put his underwear down the laundry chute. It always ended up on the floor BY the laundry chute. So, when I got sick of picking it up & throwing it down the chute, one week I just let it all pile up. Until he ran out of underwear. He learned quick!

[zibazinski]

The weirdest habit DF had was leaving half drunk water bottles everywhere. I finally asked him why he did this because I figured it may be a health issue so just wanted a heads up. Nope, he had no idea he was even doing it. Must have driven his ex nuts! He doesn't do it that much anymore. I'm worse than he is, according to him. He feels I just THROW stuff into the pantry as opposed to putting it in there neatly. I swear I don't but I'm always so tempted to do it right in front of him to get a reaction!! He also doesn't like the way I organize the drawer with all the cooking utensil so every once in awhile I open p the drawer and he has lined them up all nicely. Asked him once if he'd seen the movie with Julia Roberts as battered wife that escapes her husband for awhile by faking her death. He didnt get the connection. I just asked him if he'd seen the movie not with all the details. I only added them here because I can't remember the. Name of the movie right now.

[NoNamePerson]

Feb 25, 2014 21:30:42 GMT -5 les63 said:

Ok, men must have NO common sense. So "us" women folk must teach them's the way of the world.

Okaaaaaay. Guess men have not learned shit from their moms or whoever in the last twenty years or more.

Waaaaaaaa. Poor men. F' um.

Hey don't blame us. I thought I raised mine different but it is a GENE passed down from Adam  

[bookkeeper]

Sleeping with the enemy.

[bookkeeper]

Oh, and men can't see dirt. I think it is a genetic vision problem. They can't see doing housework.

[Blonde Granny]

Just this morning DH said to me " You just will never understand yada yada" My response to him was "why do comments from you always come in the form of an attack"? This after 49 years of marriage.

I could set a full waste basket in front of him and he'd walk around it to go out the door. Heaven help me if I leave a coffee cup on the counter. And will someone please tell me why and man can pull out of chair or kitchen bar stool, sit on it, then get up and walk away? Are they incapable of making the connection of "pull it out/push it back"?

I have finally reached a point of not undoing anything he has done. Cabinet door left open? Fine with me, it's going to get closed when he does it. Same with the kitchen bar stools.

Back to our regular topic: It is better to ask than to challenge. It is also better to say, will you please take out the trash now so I can finish cleaning up the kitchen? Men need specific directions, they truly can't read our minds.

on edit: "pull it out/push it back"?  That's NOT what I meant.....stop laughing! Sheesh, you people have your mind in the gutter!

[CarolinaKat]

Feb 25, 2014 21:22:43 GMT -5 swamp said:

Feb 25, 2014 21:19:08 GMT -5 les63 said:

I dunno, I just think that is a no brainier? We've been married almost ten years and have lived together for fourteen.

I should have ran away screaming after our before marriage questionaire. He was marrying me because I was a good housekeeper.

It is a no brainer but you still get more cooperation by not being inflammatory or accusatory.  You catch more flies with sugar than vinegar. 

Unless it's balsamic, then flies prefer that

[wyouser]

Way too much suppressed anger here!!  Everyone needs to calm down, go out and but a dog. Everytime you enter your home from that moment on you will be greeted by a friendly overly excited to see you puppy. There will always be a grin on his/her face and a perpetually wagging tail. AND, said canine will NEVER engage in verbal arguments with you.

[Abby Normal]

Feb 26, 2014 11:21:25 GMT -5 wyouser said:

Everyone needs to calm down, go out and but a dog. 

I'm not sure I want to know what "go out and but a dog" means.