Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 15, 2014 13:45:19 GMT -5
I don't know if this is a "Well, D'oh" or not. I've had encounters with "Trolls" in real life usually at a get together or party or some sort of 'group thing' where it's a mixed group of people (not everyone knows everyone else) - and the trolls on the internet are quite the same. The part about them taking some pleasure/fun from getting other people to get their undies in a bunch (ie.. surrender emotional control to the Troll) seems like it would be obvious to observers (maybe not so much the 'victim' since they are overcome by their emotion <-- which the Troll wants).
I was part of a 'study group' at the local college back in the day and one guy was bound and determined to make us all fail. He would intentionally 'poke' at members of the group - so we'd go off on tangents and waste time, he'd argue about what we should be working on (even when the instructor specifically stated/on syllabus/came up in class/was obvious it was gonna be on the test) He got a kick out of being disruptive.
Then there's the guys and gals who seemed to take perverse delight in at getting other people (usually strangers) at the bar into a tizzy over something. They'd talk and laugh about how much fun it was to "see that guy spitting mad" or "see that guy defend some stupid ideal/position"
I say I had encounters because I pretty much quite those groups of people... I was very familiar with that kind of 'manipulative abuse' from the bullies at my grade school and some of things that went on in my home life
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 15, 2014 13:55:33 GMT -5
Interesting. I have always thought there was an additional category. I think people get angry in real life and come to the internet to work out their frustrations when they are too chicken-shit to confront who they are truly angry with. I've certainly had days like that. I have a bad day for one reason or another and it's evident in my posting. Not saying it's something to be proud of, because it's not - it's truly childish. Just saying it happens. Most people can control it 99% of the time and then there are the trolls who make a career out of trying to make others miserable. The internet "empowers" the powerless. No question about that.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 15, 2014 13:57:28 GMT -5
Has anyone else here been on a chat when a Troll showed up and someone started offering the Troll "cookies and milk" aka Troll Cookies which helped the 'victims' on the thread realize they were dealing with a troll? And then the general 'party' that ensued from the virtual cookies, cakes, milk, beer, wine, other food and silliness? Use to enjoy a good "OOOO look! A Troll!! Let's Party!!!" thread. Trolls hate Troll cookies.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 15, 2014 14:02:37 GMT -5
lol...I've never seen that
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 15, 2014 14:03:16 GMT -5
Interesting. I have always thought there was an additional category. I think people get angry in real life and come to the internet to work out their frustrations when they are too chicken-shit to confront who they are truly angry with. I've certainly had days like that. I have a bad day for one reason or another and it's evident in my posting. Not saying it's something to be proud of, because it's not - it's truly childish. Just saying it happens. Most people can control it 99% of the time and then there are the trolls who make a career out of trying to make others miserable. The internet "empowers" the powerless. No question about that. Trolls are more about the manipulation... they like to start a 'fight' or 'bad feelings' and then either feed the fire or sit back and let the other posters go at it.
I think the people who are angry in real life - aren't looking for the 'fun' part of getting people's undies in a bunch. They may actually believe that they can change another's point of view OR use the threads to re-enforce/rationalize that they are indeed right. It's one of the cognitive behavior thingies we're all subject to.
My brother sometimes pokes at people (in a troll like way), but most of the time he's just using poor debate skills to get someone to come around to his point of view about something. And his point of view isn't always way out there or wrong. Sometimes a Troll will take a stand on something outlandish (that he's not invested in).
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Feb 15, 2014 14:05:57 GMT -5
lol...I've never seen that I use to hang out on a couple of atheistic/religious chat sites and we'd get a lot of Trolls (sometimes really intelligent clever ones). Perhaps, 'bringing out the basket of Troll Cookies' was just a way to moderate our threads so they didn't devolve into personal flames.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 15, 2014 14:26:38 GMT -5
Narcissistic, Machiavellian, psychopathic, and sadistic? Seriously? I would say taking time to write a column about Internet 'trollizm' is not less psychopathic than trolling itself. Thought I am completely refuse to give special name to people with certain Internet forums behavior. It is like...game playing or something. 'Different Internet personalities are discovered'! Trolls Realists Dreamers Liars Bitches Whiners... WTH? Really? Does it matter HOW?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 15, 2014 15:03:56 GMT -5
Jeez! I think I've been all of those at one time or another!
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Feb 15, 2014 15:07:48 GMT -5
I don't know if this is a "Well, D'oh" or not. I've had encounters with "Trolls" in real life usually at a get together or party or some sort of 'group thing' where it's a mixed group of people (not everyone knows everyone else) - and the trolls on the internet are quite the same. The part about them taking some pleasure/fun from getting other people to get their undies in a bunch (ie.. surrender emotional control to the Troll) seems like it would be obvious to observers (maybe not so much the 'victim' since they are overcome by their emotion <-- which the Troll wants).
Are you talking about my MIL again?
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 15, 2014 15:15:05 GMT -5
Jeez! I think I've been all of those at one time or another! I know, right? But we all not trolls, are we? Let's write about it.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 15, 2014 15:22:18 GMT -5
I am not a troll. I am not a troll. I am not a troll. I am not a troll I am not a troll
There!
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grits
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Post by grits on Feb 15, 2014 20:07:35 GMT -5
I have encountered various people through my 54 years on this dirt. Multiples of the said people do indeed take personal pleasure out of making someone else angry. They laugh about it when the other person is not around. It is a warped sense of humor that I do not find at all amusing.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 16, 2014 0:43:20 GMT -5
Trolls to the left of me! Trolls to the right of me! Trolls everywhere!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 16, 2014 6:48:27 GMT -5
Some posters come to mind but I put them on ignore. Other posters figure them out and then do the same. Easy enough. It becomes very obvious who the whack jobs are and people tend to avoid them and the threads they start. Pretty amusing when a certain poster starts a thread and its ignored when others see who started it. Must just kill him so he jumps to others posts to try to get attention. Sometimes it works.
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Feb 16, 2014 12:00:47 GMT -5
Is there a difference between being a Troll and a Devil's Advocate? I mean, I sometimes espouse opinions i don't hold just to try out a different point of view or generate discussion. How other people react is their issue. I always wonder why some people get so emotional about what some stranger says on an anonymous board.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 16, 2014 12:14:31 GMT -5
Is there a difference between being a Troll and a Devil's Advocate? I mean, I sometimes espouse opinions i don't hold just to try out a different point of view or generate discussion. How other people react is their issue. I always wonder why some people get so emotional about what some stranger says on an anonymous board. IMHO there is a huge difference. A troll is going for the emotional response. A Devil's Advocate is trying to get peeps to consider the fact that things are not always as black and white as they seem. Take for instance the issue of arranged marriages. A troll would hop into that discussion and say it's womens place to be submissive to a man and only their father is capable of making sound decisions with respect to their future and the girl/woman should submit to her father/husband. A Devil's Advocate would advise that not every culture is the same. In some countries a father will do his best to arrange a pairing that will ensure his daughter respect, ecomonic security and safety with a man who's character and family reputation will ensure she will have as much respect and honor as their traditions allow. I used to be very much against the concept of arranged marriages. Then I worked with a highly educated woman who went back to India at the behest of her parents to get married to a man she never met. I couldn't understand it at the time but a few years later after a few glasses of wine we discussed cultural differences in detail. While she admitted she would likely never be passionately in love with him, she felt their match was a good one because he treated her with dignity and respect. Given the divorce rate in the States how many of us can say the same for the mates we choose for ourselves?
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Feb 16, 2014 12:23:55 GMT -5
My issue is, so what if someone hops into a discussion with an 'inflammatory' remark? Why can't a person just say - well, I think that is kind of crazy and I really dont' agree and move on? If it is something they are sensitive about, why not stop reading that conversation?
It is kind of like Facebook bullying. I dont' get it. If Facebook is an issue. Don't go on Facebook. Problem solved. If a trollers are looking for a response, then no response is the best response.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 16, 2014 12:29:27 GMT -5
My issue is, so what if someone hops into a discussion with an 'inflammatory' remark? Why can't a person just say - well, I think that is kind of crazy and I really dont' agree and move on? If it is something they are sensitive about, why not stop reading that conversation? It is kind of like Facebook bullying. I dont' get it. If Facebook is an issue. Don't go on Facebook. Problem solved. If a trollers are looking for a response, then no response is the best response. I know I've made some people really angry with me on here. To be honest, I find it funny that anyone on here would get upset (I mean REALLY upset!) over what a random poster says. I'm not talking about people that I have buit Freindshios wih but posters that don't know me from Adam. And if someone goes crazy on me, I have fun with it. Doesn't make me a troll....
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 16, 2014 12:40:51 GMT -5
IMO, it's because of your intent. You intend to come in and discuss something. You aren't afraid to post an opinion that goes against what is considered "mainstream" around here, even though it brings the gang bangers out in force (that part makes me laugh). Your intent is to have an intelligent discussion (most of the time). That makes you a poster - not a troll. IMO, a troll is someone who has no other intent in mind other than to poke at people. No intent to discuss, learn, etc. Just to poke people.
It's all about your intentions, IMO.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 16, 2014 12:44:53 GMT -5
My issue is, so what if someone hops into a discussion with an 'inflammatory' remark? Why can't a person just say - well, I think that is kind of crazy and I really dont' agree and move on? If it is something they are sensitive about, why not stop reading that conversation? It is kind of like Facebook bullying. I dont' get it. If Facebook is an issue. Don't go on Facebook. Problem solved. If a trollers are looking for a response, then no response is the best response. It's easy to say this as an adult. But if you were a 13-14yo would you honestly have the self-control to refrain from finding out what others are posting about you? To be honest, at that age, I'm not sure I'd be able to stay away.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 16, 2014 16:21:24 GMT -5
I was thinking about this the other day. It does seem that "trolls" and griefers seem attracted to the internet. Maybe it's because of the anonomys nature of the internet, but people say and do things online they'd never do in real life because they'd be beat up or shunned.
I avoid commenting on most gaming sites because of this. And I know it's a waste of time to try and argue with a troll.
Fortunately, this message board seems to be a positive environment. I don't know if it's because of the quality of our membership or our moderators being good, but I haven't seen a great deal of negativity on this message board. There's been some drama sure, but not nearly as much as I've seen in the comments section of youtube, for example.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 16, 2014 16:32:48 GMT -5
Interesting. I have always thought there was an additional category. I think people get angry in real life and come to the internet to work out their frustrations when they are too chicken-shit to confront who they are truly angry with. I've certainly had days like that. I have a bad day for one reason or another and it's evident in my posting. Not saying it's something to be proud of, because it's not - it's truly childish. Just saying it happens. Most people can control it 99% of the time and then there are the trolls who make a career out of trying to make others miserable. The internet "empowers" the powerless. No question about that. A good point GEL.
From what I've seen most trolls are folks who are not in control or have power over their own life in "real life." As you said, many are powerless, they may have crappy jobs, be poor, and be uneducated. The internet is an equalizer in the sense that everyone is pretty much boiled down to a avatar and username. Education, wealth, job, and power in real life mean nothing on an internet message board.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 16, 2014 16:36:56 GMT -5
Has anyone else here been on a chat when a Troll showed up and someone started offering the Troll "cookies and milk" aka Troll Cookies which helped the 'victims' on the thread realize they were dealing with a troll? And then the general 'party' that ensued from the virtual cookies, cakes, milk, beer, wine, other food and silliness? Use to enjoy a good "OOOO look! A Troll!! Let's Party!!!" thread. Trolls hate Troll cookies. A few times. I've seen many people say "don't feed the trolls" which I assume means don't give the troll ammunition.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 16, 2014 16:48:28 GMT -5
Is there a difference between being a Troll and a Devil's Advocate? I mean, I sometimes espouse opinions i don't hold just to try out a different point of view or generate discussion. How other people react is their issue. I always wonder why some people get so emotional about what some stranger says on an anonymous board. I don't think every emotional response on a message board is due to trolling. Some people are just easily offended, or too wrapped up in their personal opinions. Some create threads not to really ask for advice but to justify their opinion, and they get upset when other posters don't play ball. I have done that on occasion.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 16, 2014 16:53:25 GMT -5
Everyone has their issues. I seem to remember you getting pretty steamed at me on a special education thread. Well, actually, any thread discussing public school funding when I bring up the percentage of money wasted on mentally disabled kids. Arguing a point doesn't mean I let you upset me personally. I don't know you and you don't know me. The reality is, I really do wish that people with your views wine up wih a special needs child. Further proof that there is no god or he doesn't answer prayers....a whole lot of you would wind up with special needs kids! I'm talking about the people that get so irate and out if control...threatening to beat me up!l. That isn't an issue or a disagreement, that is just plain crazy! I can think someone is an absolute jack ass (a few names are coming to mind!lol) without being personally invested. If your wife was in my school board then I would be personally invested because then you could potentially impact me personally. Otherwise, I argue like any other point but let your nasty comments roll off my back just like I do other people that post shut I disagree with.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Feb 16, 2014 17:20:19 GMT -5
I have seen people post like a million times, about "emotional" responses - like it's some kind of bad thing. It isn't a bad thing that a person is emotional about something they believe in - whether it's here or in real life. If people think calling me "emotional" in an insult, they better try again. I think some people consider it some kind of stupid "win" if they elicit emotional responses. The person who is vested enough in something to get emotional is the poster I'll most respect as far as their opinions.
ETA: Response to post #15. For some reason, my quote thingie didn't quote.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 16, 2014 17:23:13 GMT -5
I think you're praying to the wrong figure from the good book if you're asking for innocent children to be born mentally deficient. I never claimed to be a good Christian because that is exactly what I pray for
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 16, 2014 17:34:10 GMT -5
I have seen people post like a million times, about "emotional" responses - like it's some kind of bad thing. It isn't a bad thing that a person is emotional about something they believe in - whether it's here or in real life. If people think calling me "emotional" in an insult, they better try again. I think some people consider it some kind of stupid "win" if they elicit emotional responses. The person who is vested enough in something to get emotional is the poster I'll most respect as far as their opinions. I agree but disagree. I have very strong opinions on a lot of subjects and probably react emotionally to anything negative about my dd. but I don't let people I don't know impact me personally. If my best friend said the hinge that dark said I would be hurt. People that I don't know or care about can't hurt me like that. That doesn't mean that I don't truly think that people like that don't deserve a smack down from karma.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 16, 2014 17:49:38 GMT -5
I dunno, I remember some pretty personal insults from that thread, getting into marital issues and whatnot...
We all have our triggers. Nothing wrong with that.
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les63
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Post by les63 on Feb 16, 2014 18:22:39 GMT -5
My trigger is definitely special needs children depriving "normal children" of a great education. Yeah ok. Like my son is destroying our countries' education system. Yep!! Rant on. Lol, frigging funny.
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