How does division of labor work in your house?

[whoisjohngalt]

You can't force a kid to be or do anything, really.  But you can at least try to instill some core values that hopefully will help them to achieve something if they so choose.  That's my parenting philosophy and I am sticking to it



Shockingly, I don't disagree with your view on this that much. 

[Sum Dum Gai]

Shockingly, I don't disagree with your view on this that much.

Gee.. thanks.

[Firebird]

I'm weird... the main "value" I hope to instill in my children is an ability and willingness to answer for their decisions and own the consequences of those decisions. I'm less concerned about exactly what they think about any one particular subject.

My job as I see it is to help them understand the way the world works so they can decide what kind of person they want to be in that world. Ultimately that's completely up to them, not me.

[CarolinaKat]

Feb 6, 2014 13:31:18 GMT -5 gooddecisions said:

I really think it depends on the kid and the age of the kids. When mine was a baby, she never napped more than 30 minutes, usually it was 20 min. I cringe every time someone says babies sleep all the time. She also woke up every other hour at night for the first 11 months, so I was exhausted during the day. By 2, she dropped naps all together. And now (still 2) she's not old enough to enjoy playing independently.

There has been no point in the past 2 years where doing chores while entertaining her as been easy. In another 2 months, we'll have a newborn, so add another 2+ years to not being able to get stuff done around the house easily. It's a totally different ballgame when you have kids in school and stay at home or a baby who sleeps all the time. I'd probably judge every SAHM lifestyle as easy if that had been my reality.

My only experience staying at home has been on my 3 month maternity leave, vacations, weekends, holidays and evenings, so I'm judging based solely on that experience and entertaining/childcare can be a full-time effort. I've also watched a fair number of Super Nanny's where the SAHM has vacuumed several times a day, scrubbed floors, counters, constantly picked up after the kids, etc- and was miserable and stressed. Super Nanny just stared in disbelief at one who put that much energy into cleaning instead of her 3 small kids.

This time I hope you get a baby that likes to sleep and take naps. I know it seems like a mythalogical being, but they do exist.

[Pants]

"I really wish you would read what I actually wrote versus interpreting things from your bias."

*snort*


"Really, you would feel no pressure if little bsbound comes to you and tell you all their friends are in ballet?"

Nope, no pressure at all. However, I would ask if she was interested in taking ballet - because letting her explore her interests and have friends and have fun is important to me. Making sure she's "competitive" is not.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Really, you would feel no pressure if little DQ comes to you and tell you all their friends are in ballet

Not really.  If she has my coordination skills dance scholarships are not in her future even if I team up with what-her-name that runs the studio on Dance Moms. 

Plus logically if everyone is taking ballet then nobody is special.  Unless she's the future Barisniskov she's not going to have an edge over all the other kids in her class when it comes to dance scholarships.  Only so many to go around.

If she expressed interest in ballet after hearing about all her friends doing it I'd be happy to explore the option.  If that was a way for her to socialize/bond with her friends after school I'd be happy to look into it.

But I'm not going to push her into it just because "everyone else" is doing it. 

[swamp]

I put my kids in hockey and figure skating because everyone else is it it. Skating is a huge past time here and I don't want my kids to miss out. Skating birthday parties are really common and I don't want my kids to be that spaz that are in a heap on the ice.

[gooddecisions]

Just to balance it out, I grew up solid middle/upper class with great parents who gave me a lot of opportunities. I didn't screw up. My friends and I fell into the "Head of the Class" (remember that show?) and were in all the same honors/AP classes, trivia teams, debate teams and tutoring clubs. Most of us were even good at sports and played at least one, if not a sport then band. We all went to college and nobody screwed up. I became the secret millionaire next door a few years ago around 32, with no seed money other than supported through college. I give credit to my parents and falling into a great peer group. One of my sisters fell into the wrong peer group and her life did not turn out so great.

[Lizard Queen]

Feb 7, 2014 9:53:51 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Really, you would feel no pressure if little DQ comes to you and tell you all their friends are in ballet

Not really.  If she has my coordination skills dance scholarships are not in her future even if I team up with what-her-name that runs the studio on Dance Moms. 

Plus logically if everyone is taking ballet then nobody is special.  Unless she's the future Barisniskov she's not going to have an edge over all the other kids in her class when it comes to dance scholarships.  Only so many to go around.

If she expressed interest in ballet after hearing about all her friends doing it I'd be happy to explore the option.  If that was a way for her to socialize/bond with her friends after school I'd be happy to look into it.

But I'm not going to push her into it just because "everyone else" is doing it. 

Funny you mention dance scholarships.  I had one when I went to CC.  It was only a couple hundred bucks, but then tuition was maybe $600 per semester. I guarantee you that dance classes over the years added up to a lot more than that!  I did enjoy it though, until the competitive aspect was introduced.  I don't believe art and competition go together.  At least, personally, it takes away all the enjoyment for me.

[Deleted]

I didn't realize people could go to college for dance until I went. I lived on a floor with a bunch of dance majors my Freshman year. 

[muttleynfelix]

I have my kids in an activity because I think they enjoy it. They are in Kindermusik and I find value in what they "teach" in kindermusik. It is a lot of fun and the kids have fun. To me that is more important than being competitive.

[NancysSummerSip]

Feb 7, 2014 10:28:18 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

I didn't realize people could go to college for dance until I went myself. I lived on a floor with a bunch of dance majors my Freshman year. 

My cousin's daughter is about to graduate with a BA in Fine Arts/Dance. She is trying out for several major ballet/modern dance troupes. We've got our fingers crossed. She is not a classic tall, skinny ballet dancer. She is tall and quite sturdy and muscular. More of the modern dancer body type. Mom had the same major (wound up teaching dance), and dad's a doctor.
I hope she finds a place. Dance is all she has ever done and all she has ever wanted.

[Deleted]

Awww....I hope she makes it! 

I never took dance growing up, so it never occurred to me how one becomes a dance teacher.  I guess I assumed you just opened up your own place once you were old enough. 

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2014 18:08:44 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

But what does that prove?

It proves that how a kid turns out is more nature than nurture.  No matter how much you push you can't get a square shaped kid to fit comfortably in a round hole.  A kid with internal drive will go places, a kid without it won't.  It doesn't matter how many fancy summer camps you send them to, whether they go to public or private school, or how they spend their afternoons as children.

Too much pushing and structure can ruin whatever internal drive the kid has, because anything they're interested in becomes work instead of remaining play.  Motivation is a tricky thing.  Too much outside pressure can turn something we love into something we dread.  Do that to a kid often enough and they stop loving anything.  They lose the internal drive to want anything because mom and dad are going to ruin it anyway.  It can be a recipe for a kid with some pretty serious emotional and trust issues.

first you have to find the proverbial button for each child

then you have to know when to push it, and when not to

at first i REALLY pushed the kids hard.....until they started moving away from me

my MIL is the one that clued me in.....thankfully i had enough sense to listen just enough

i still pushed.....but much less.....and i paid a lot more attention to what THEY WANTED....not what i wanted

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't want my kids to be that spaz that are in a heap on the ice.

I resemble that remark.

[Sunnyday]

I still don't want to put my child in dance class. I don't want to put them in sports. But I will if they express an interest, and other circumstances.

But in response to the idea that if everyone is in it, then how does that you make competitive. It doesn't. It keeps you in the game.

It's like that common practice of holding back kids a year before they start kindergarten.

I have no desire to do this. Until you hear about people doing it to give their little darlings an advantage.

So let's say that my four year is a smart precocious girl and I let her start kindergarten early, and she is in a class with mostly 6-year olds. Well, the other kids and parents just got a one up on us. And my little girl won't be able to keep up, and she'll feel that she isn't able or smart, even if she is.

That can set her up for failure and lower self esteem.

I don't want to trod my kids to a million activities for the billion time. But if children are taking up musical instruments, and my child isn't. She is at a disadvantage. Because music, art and sports are enriching activities.

I think some people interpret "competitive" as I want my kid to be better than your kid. No, I just want my kid to be on the same playing field. And it actually pisses me off that the super parents are tilting the odds so much in their favor that I have to play the game.

And for all you la-li-das, I'm sorry, but people do keep score. And as much as you might want to get a trophy for just showing up, that's not how real life works.

I know you think that you just want your kids to be happy. But when your kids are adults with a degree in basket weaving living in your basement, you might have wished that you helped them reach their potential.

And btw, learning my mother tongue will not in any way shape or form make my children competitive.

But since some people seem to think that I'm pushing my toddler too hard by giving her contact with my mother tongue, you know, her heritage, and the only way she will ever be able to communicate with my side of the family, and that I should just let her do what she likes best so she can be free from all expectations. Of course, her favorite activities are: Picking her nose, eating boogers while watching cartoons.

Then will I get mother of the year award?

ETA highlighted text.

[muttleynfelix]

You know I'm glad I live in a place where my neighbors are stoked to get a new manufactured home.    It sets the bar pretty damn low. 

[muttleynfelix]

But since some people seem to think that I'm pushing my toddler too hard by giving her contact with my mother tongue, you know, her heritage,

No, we think you are far too concerned with what everyone else thinks and everyone else is doing. 

[Sunnyday]

Feb 7, 2014 11:17:13 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

But since some people seem to think that I'm pushing my toddler too hard by giving her contact with my mother tongue, you know, her heritage,

No, we think you are far too concerned with what everyone else thinks and everyone else is doing. 

Nah, I don't really think anyone care about what I do. I'm just a pimply teenager in the basement.

But once I take a stand, I have to see it through. I just don't understand how what I said about feeling pressure to do all these activities got interpret into I'm putting my children into a million activities and forcing them to do it.



And I also have a hard time accepting that someone can't accept the basic premise that we need to prepare our children for a competitive world.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Thing is most studies show that around 2nd-4th grade all the "advantages" even out and it becomes more about your own drive/natural potential than the 30 classes you sent them to as a toddler.

. But when your kids are adults with a degree in basket weaving living in your basement, you might have wished that you helped them reach their potential.

Hmmm. .I did choir in elementary school and then drama/speech in HS.  That's it.  Somehow I'm living on my own with an STEM degree.

But I live in backward potato farming country, like Mutt the bar is pretty low here.
 

But if children are taking up musical instruments, and my child isn't. She is at a disadvantage.

DH is a trumpet player and is really hoping Gwen will pick up an instrument.  I'm hoping she'll want to particpate in theatre.

We certainly plan on exposing her to music and theatre, she'll be old enough this year to go to The Rose Children's Theatre with me.

But I'm not going to push her to take classes in it because everyone else is.  Some people get zero enjoyment out of being on stage or backstage.  

She still gets to apppreciate and experience art if I take her to see shows on a regular basis.  She still gets music if we take her to the symphony.   She's not lacking and doomed to live in my basement if she doesn't play or act herself.

[Deleted]

I think people don't agree with your idea that they HAVE to be in the same activities in order to remain competitive. If everyone else plays soccer but I play lacrosse my only disadvantage will be on the soccer field. 

Someone who doesn't take dance when everyone else does is only at a disadvantage on the dance floor. Same with sports and foreign languages. They're only at a disadvantage in the places these things are used. Not in every aspect of their lives.

ETA: and even then they can learn these things outside of a formal team. I learned most sport fundamental playing pickup games with the kids on my street. 

[Sunnyday]

Feb 7, 2014 11:27:30 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Thing is most studies show that around 2nd-4th grade all the "advantages" even out and it becomes more about your own drive/natural potential than the 30 classes you sent them to as a toddler.

. But when your kids are adults with a degree in basket weaving living in your basement, you might have wished that you helped them reach their potential.

Hmmm. .I did choir in elementary school and then drama/speech in HS.  That's it.  Somehow I'm living on my own with an STEM degree.

But I live in backward potato farming country, like Mutt the bar is pretty low here.
 

But if children are taking up musical instruments, and my child isn't. She is at a disadvantage.

DH is a trumpet player and is really hoping Gwen will pick up an instrument.  I'm hoping she'll want to particpate in theatre.

We certainly plan on exposing her to music and theatre, she'll be old enough this year to go to The Rose Children's Theatre with me.

But I'm not going to push her to take classes in it because everyone else is.  Some people get zero enjoyment out of being on stage or backstage.  

She still gets to apppreciate and experience art if I take her to see shows on a regular basis.  She still gets music if we take her to the symphony.   She's not lacking and doomed to live in my basement if she doesn't play or act herself.

Normally, children end up enjoying or appreciating at least what they have been exposed to. Children won't know exactly what they like if they don't try different things or never exposed to anything except school and TV.

My husband and I are the least sporty people in the world! I am so so klutzy.  I still want my children to be exposed to some form of team sport even if it's for one summer. I will be able to figure out if they like it or not or have an aptitude in it or not rather quickly. Even if I don't understand team sports (because I wasn't exposed to it as a child), I can still see value in them.

I was given the advice that it's good for children to be in one creative activity and one physical activity.

[NancysSummerSip]

Feb 7, 2014 10:44:02 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

Awww....I hope she makes it! 

I never took dance growing up, so it never occurred to me how one becomes a dance teacher.  I guess I assumed you just opened up your own place once you were old enough. 

I hope so, too. I  don't know what else she would do if she didn't. It's a high expectations/high achieving family. Everyone gets high grades and participates in all kinds of stuff. No one gets pushed; it's just that the expectations are there.

[Sunnyday]

Feb 7, 2014 11:46:53 GMT -5 @beerwench said:

ETA: and even then they can learn these things outside of a formal team. I learned most sport fundamental playing pickup games with the kids on my street. 

I played kickball in my neighbourhood growing up. We also ran through the fields and biked to the store. We were left mainly unsupervised.

In my neighbourhood, and in this time and age, no children are playing anything in the streets, least of sports. Well they do skateboard though.

We are in a densely-populated area though.  Everything is organized and parent accompanied. Welcome to the new parenting reality!

[Deleted]

No kidding! 

DS wants to sign up for everything under the sun and DD doesn't want to do any extracurricular activities. So I have one that I have to reign in and one I have to push out there. 

[giramomma]

Actually agree with Rainy on some points.

My DS was slow to get interested in sports. It's only been the last two years that's he's been more serious about them.

DS at age 4th, wanted to do basketball. The choices are
1)The Y competitive team that runs $400. (Which most of his friends are playing on)
2) the Y NON-competitive team that runs $200 and you still get BENCHED.
3) Classes through a private gym
4) a basic skills class through the rec department.

Most of DS's friends are on the competitive bb team because they've been playing for 4-5 years and have a ton more experience than DS. Finding a program where he won't be benched because he doesn't have the skills or knowledge has been a challenge.

I'm not talking about getting my DS to be a Laker. I'm just trying to get him some exposure to something he's expressed interest in where he will get actual playing time. And, I'm not paying $200-$400 for something to have him benched. We did that for tackle football, and I'm not interested in doing it again. (Though, for tackle, as it turns out DS won't tackle. We didn't know that until he got suited up. But he looks damn cute in the uniform.)

So, my son will likely not be able to compete. Next year, he'll be able to play sports through school. In 7th grade, the kids on the bb team are benched if they aren't good enough. I don't know how many sports I can support him being bench warmer with

In our city, if you want to be decent in music, you HAVE to take private lessons, pretty much from the get go. Starting in the public schools, and only doing that won't get you very far. There's absolutely NO ONE in the youth orchestra program who gets in with one year of lessons through school.  If you want to be able to consider playing in youth orchestra someday, you really do need to start on an instrument by age 6 or 7.  Otherwise you won't get the right skills, have the right sound, etc to gain entrance.

[milee]

Feb 6, 2014 16:06:50 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Sunnyday - my Mom was a SAHP (and preferred ice cream to bon bons).  Now of course I couldn't tell you how things were before we were schoolage, but I doubt it changed much from when we were really little because she had things down pretty well.  She considered her "paying job" to be running the house, paying the bills, caring for the kids, and doing the route books (delivery tickets, orders and invoices) for the delivery route my Dad ran. ....Dad worked (12 hours a day, 6 days a week), mowed the grass, and changed the oil on the cars.  Everything else was on Mom and she managed I think pretty darn well. 


BTW - once we started school Mom continued as a full time SAHP.  She had her lunches with friends, bridge club, etc.  Dad did not begrudge her any of that.  When we were older (9-11) we did most of the chores ourselves so yes, there was some major deferred payback for the time she put in up front. 

Would you consider that unfair

Now that I have retired friends I understand this system better than I did when I was young.  Yes, while her children were school age, your mom probably had more free time than your dad since she could do her household jobs and still have time left over to do things like bridge when the kids were in school.  Sounds very cushy until you look at it over the lifetime of the marriage.  For many couples that had that type arrangement (woman did all house stuff and man did work, yard and car stuff), it evened out over time - and then some IMHO - because the woman's jobs never really end.  At some point, the man retires and stops working.  The woman's jobs never, ever stop.  And few of the retired men who have been married 30+ years and never done a load of laundry, don't know how to operate the vacuum and haven't prepared meals start doing those things after they retire.  So all the stuff the woman had been doing for all those years continues on after the man retires, meaning the woman continues to work.

I have no idea if it all evens out over the span of a 40 year marriage, but it's worth pointing out that for many couples in traditional situations like that, the SAH life seems cushy at some points of time, but much less appealing when you realize she's still probably doing that exact same work when she's 60, 70, 80... until she dies. 

[raeoflyte]

Gira--what string instruments do you suggest for kids of that age?  I don't think I can handle a violin... 

[sheilaincali]

We refused to push DS to do things he didn't want to do. We basically told him we'd sign him up for anything he wanted to do and did a lot of family activities together. He is not an athlete, has very little natural coordination but has a great attitude.  The gym teacher would send us home notes praising his attitude.  

If he asked to do a sport we'd sign him up and work with him, go to practices, games, etc.  He always had a good attitude. 

When he was younger we'd go through the Community Ed book together and he'd pick out things he wanted to do.  He's taken cooking classes (he wanted to be a chef), done lego league and lego competitions, art classes, nature hikes, rock climbing, contests at the library, sports, etc.  Our philosophy was such that he was never going to be able to figure out what he wanted to be in life or what he enjoyed without trying a few different things out.

We never forced him to do things or made him do something he didn't want to do.  We had only one kid so time and money weren't factors for us. 

As a sophomore now- he has the absolute greatest group of like minded friends.  He is the Captain of his Robotics Team, Co-Captain of his Knowledge Bowl Team, finished his 3rd year in Youth In Government, and is a member of the:  Chemistry Club, History Club and Engineering Club.  Plus he babysits for our friends and works part time at a local gaming/comic book shop.  He loves school, loves learning and is very passionate about the things he does.  His friends are all very similar to him.  All driven by this internal drive to challenge themselves. 

We didn't force him to do anything.  We gave him options and opportunities and let him choose his own basic direction. 

That's what worked at my house, with my kid.  YMMV  

[Pants]

rainyday - I'm not saying you have your kids in a million activities, or even that it's wrong to have her in language tutoring in your mother tongue. I am saying that I do not agree that she is at a disadvantage if she's not going what all the other kids are doing. Why do you want her to speak 4 languages by the time she's 16? For her or for you? What if she's a jock who has no talent for languages? Is that extra 4th language going to help her or frustrate her to no end?

Look, I'm a smart person, and my husband is a smart person. Our kid will probably be pretty smart too. We will have high expectations of her for school. We plan to expose her to many different things - activities, travel, volunteerism - languages, cultures, sports, science, arts and music. But it's up to her to figure out how to use that to her advantage. Because I don't want to push her only to have her drop out of college or grad school and end up living a life she doesn't seem to want many years down the road...