giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 14, 2014 12:14:30 GMT -5
One thing I notice with people red shirting in our neck of the woods is that there's never any concern about the implications of a child entering 12th grade and being 18 already.
At least in our state, once a child turns 18, they can choose whether or not they finish HS. Now, I was a good kid in high school (no sex, drugs, or drinking). Hearing the stories from this and other boards, I seem to be in the minority. The attitude seems to be that we should expect teens to screw up and make poor decisions. I don't know that I would chance not graduating from high school as one of those poor decisions.
Also, the age of consent is 16 in our state. I'd never, ever tell my DS to date anyone younger than him if he was 18 for the whole school year. But, in my parts, having relations with someone that is under the age of consent can give you a sex offender label.
There's also the fact that a child a full year older will be able drive earlier than the rest of his/her peers. I think that needs to be given some thought, too.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Jan 14, 2014 12:20:41 GMT -5
Dang it, these threads always make me want to home school. But that's not an option until I can quit working so I guess we look at school choices. Right now it's preschool for the fall. Heaven help us....
I would agree with milee that getting an outside observer may be the best route, since DS won't act the same way in class with you there as he does when you are gone. I would start him if you think he's ready. Maybe he needs more of a structured class environment than the preschool is providing? If not you could stop and bump him back to preschool. It wouldn't be the first time it's happened.
Oh man, the grade separations are making me really want to home school or private tutor. Why does someone have to master a certain skill just because they are x years old? What if they can do it a x-2 or x+2 years? What if a kid is great with math but needs more help in reading? That's where a large-scale educational system starts to break down - for kids that are falling outside the "norm."
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 14, 2014 12:21:13 GMT -5
You could have your boys repeat a grade, but that's not really fair to them. You could give them a gap year then enroll them in school one grade above where they were when you pulled them. Accomplishes the same thing but they don't have to spend a year repeating material and bored. Would require a lot of adjustment and work on your part though, and could disrupt their education quite a bit. Yeah, that's what I'm struggling with right now. With the oldest, I think it's probably past the point of making that type of big move and best to just let it play out. (He enters high school next year.)
But with the youngest, I've been debating if I can pull off a gap year without causing him all sorts of other issues. Again, the problem isn't the brains, it's the emotional maturity and giving him the impression that he "failed" or "repeated" a grade wouldn't help at all.
One of my ideas was to travel for an extended time and use that travel both as a good experience and as an excuse for why he's not in school... a long trip on a sailboat for example. (BTW, this is a totally selfish idea of course because I'd love to do that too!) But I couldn't do that without either being away from or impacting the older son's schooling and I'm pretty sure DH wouldn't appreciate me abandoning the business for an extended time, either. He doesn't like to travel so I couldn't convince him to go with us, unfortunately.
So if anybody else has any good ideas, lay them on me.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jan 14, 2014 12:21:54 GMT -5
The driving thing is pretty area dependent. It's pretty common, at least here, for a teen old enough to drive not to have their own car. They might have a license, and be able to borrow their parents car on occasion, but they don't all get a car for their 16th birthday.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Jan 14, 2014 12:25:12 GMT -5
LOL! I was thinking a year on a boat too. How awesome would that experience be? Not too many people that could actually do it though.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 14, 2014 12:27:00 GMT -5
LOL! I was thinking a year on a boat too. How awesome would that experience be? Not too many people that could actually do it though. I would love it and could pull it off... but when I came home the locks would be changed.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jan 14, 2014 12:27:56 GMT -5
I'm pretty against redshirting unless there is a really obvious need. My DS has aspergers/autism and I didn't redshirt him. DD is a June baby (and physically microscopic) and I didn't redshirt her. We also live in a district with full day Kindy and pretty rigorous academics. Generally speaking, I think protecting your child from challenges (whether academic or social) is detrimental to their personal growth. Challenges (and conquering them) are what builds true confidence. Getting easy As because you are smarter than everyone else because you were reshirted is a false confidence. To survive in the real world, you need true confidence. JMO - YMMV.
And OMG - being quiet/introverted/shy does NOT mean you are socially immature!!!!
Can the child sit still and follow directions? Can the child go all day without a nap? Can the child spend hours away from the parent without having separation anxiety? These are more core issues for readiness IMO. Kindy is all about preparing kids to enter the 1-12 school system: listening to teachers, eating lunch in the cafeteria, recess structure, learning fundamentals like basic reading/math, etc. Waiting until your child already knows all that means your child is bored for a year while everyone else learns those things.
OP - I think it is really weird the preschool won't give you an assessment. That's what preschool is for. I would ask around more because that worries me more than anything.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 14, 2014 12:28:03 GMT -5
Just know no matter what decision you make: it's wrong. Isn't parenting awesome?
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jan 14, 2014 12:33:46 GMT -5
One thing I notice with people red shirting in our neck of the woods is that there's never any concern about the implications of a child entering 12th grade and being 18 already. At least in our state, once a child turns 18, they can choose whether or not they finish HS. Now, I was a good kid in high school (no sex, drugs, or drinking). Hearing the stories from this and other boards, I seem to be in the minority. The attitude seems to be that we should expect teens to screw up and make poor decisions. I don't know that I would chance not graduating from high school as one of those poor decisions. Also, the age of consent is 16 in our state. I'd never, ever tell my DS to date anyone younger than him if he was 18 for the whole school year. But, in my parts, having relations with someone that is under the age of consent can give you a sex offender label. There's also the fact that a child a full year older will be able drive earlier than the rest of his/her peers. I think that needs to be given some thought, too. Yeah, and girls who are redshirted will be developing breasts way before their peers. Like that's an easy thing to go through. I think the point is you can't predict your child's life and what will/won't be an issue. So enroll them as you would normally do and don't stress about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 12:34:08 GMT -5
Our daughter is a December baby and we didn't redshirt her. I don't think she is the youngest in her class, either. There was one other girl with a later December birthday.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 12:43:15 GMT -5
DS's Bday is the end of September, so he started school when he was 4. He IS the youngest in his class. His 1st grade teacher did say that he was the smallest in the class and that some of his peers were close to being 2 years older than him but that it would all even out around 4th/5th grade.
Academically, he was ready for kindy at age 3. He really, really REALLY wanted to go when his sister went and waiting that extra year was torture for him so there was no way I was going to red shirt him.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jan 14, 2014 12:46:18 GMT -5
The teachers said academically he's ready. At our first conference of the year they said he's ready. It's the social part that I worry about. He's made great strides in that area. I guess that if they aren't saying he isn't ready or that there are issues we are probably good to move forward... I feel really unqualified for this part of parenting.
Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 14, 2014 12:50:41 GMT -5
The teachers said academically he's ready. At our first conference of the year they said he's ready. It's the social part that I worry about. He's made great strides in that area. I guess that if they aren't saying he isn't ready or that there are issues we are probably good to move forward... I feel really unqualified for this part of parenting.
Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards Snort. Welcome to my world Rae. I pretty much feel unqualified on a daily basis with one or both of the kids.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 14, 2014 12:55:04 GMT -5
The cut-off here is September 21st. I'm born in December so I was the oldest in my class by a year and close to 2 years in some cases. It SUCKED. I was way ahead academically and didn't relate to my peers much. If I had a dime for every asshat who asked me if I had been held back I'd have been able to pay for college completely out of pocket.
I don't plan on doing it with Gwen. She's a social butterfly compared to her introverted mother and is doing really well in her pre-school program at the daycare.
So she'll start at 5. It might backfire in my face and she'll hate me for not redshirting her, hell if know. I just have to take my chances and save for therapy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 12:59:56 GMT -5
A popular thing to do around here for people in your circumstances DQ is to send the kids to Catholic kindy and then transfer them to the public school for first grade.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jan 14, 2014 13:03:21 GMT -5
The teachers said academically he's ready. At our first conference of the year they said he's ready. It's the social part that I worry about. He's made great strides in that area. I guess that if they aren't saying he isn't ready or that there are issues we are probably good to move forward... I feel really unqualified for this part of parenting. I also think that you can control some of the social part outside of school, too. It's no coincidence that some of the best kids for my DS to hang out with are in his den. It's one of the reasons I volunteered to take over so that the den didn't die. We also have playdates with kids that ARE good for DS. I'm also wondering how the teachers plan to handle the social aspect of your DS. My DS is a talker. In kindy, he got paired up with the kid that would not talk. Seriously, I think the teachers told us it was Christmas before the non-talker responded to anyone in a meaningful way. They are very good friends, now, several years later...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 13:04:27 GMT -5
I'm surprised by a December cut off. Ours is end September. People should be careful saying they want to homeschool but don't think its possible... T might tempt others to start talking about how, of course it is... No seriously, ill keep quiet. But message if you want ideas...
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jan 14, 2014 13:12:00 GMT -5
The cut-off here is September 21st. I'm born in December so I was the oldest in my class by a year and close to 2 years in some cases. It SUCKED. I was way ahead academically and didn't relate to my peers much. If I had a dime for every asshat who asked me if I had been held back I'd have been able to pay for college completely out of pocket. I don't plan on doing it with Gwen. She's a social butterfly compared to her introverted mother and is doing really well in her pre-school program at the daycare. So she'll start at 5. It might backfire in my face and she'll hate me for not redshirting her, hell if know. I just have to take my chances and save for therapy. Why? The state cut-off for my year was Nov 1 the year I was born on Nov 27 (the previous year it was Dec 1, this was when they were transitioning from the Dec cut off to Sept 1). I think I was the oldest girl in my class until we picked up a couple who were held back. But there were probably a half dozen boys older than me. By the time I got to college no one cared. In my school district, no one ever skipped a grade. So the youngest in my class had a Sept 30 b-day (the next school year the cut off was Oct 1). Only 10 months younger than me. I did date a boy who was born in a state that had Dec 30 cut off and then moved to our state, so he was a year ahead of me in school but a month younger than me. When I was in kindergarten, I really wanted to be in the class ahead of mine. My neighbors were in the class ahead of me and I wanted to be with them. By the time we got to Junior high, we had drifted apart and it didn't matter as much. By high school, I was glad I wasn't in that class, I couldn't stand most of the kids in that class. (I went to a small school district, about 70 kids per graduating class when I was there, so yeah you knew pretty much everyone).
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 14, 2014 13:12:41 GMT -5
I'm an introvert. I know how to interact socially just fine, but I prefer to do it on MY terms. I used to be told I'm too shy. No I just don't fit into the pattern American culture thinks I should. I can be quite social/extroverted when I want to be.
Overtime I've learned to play the game so people don't think there is something "wrong" with me. I've never been socially maladjusted/immature, I'm an introvert which is not the same thing.
I have no idea why the cut off date is in September. I'm betting it's some outdated agriculture related rule since Iowa is largely a farming state.
I had to start at age six. Most of my classmates were born in 1984 or 1985.
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Jan 14, 2014 13:17:38 GMT -5
I agree with the people who pointed out that being shy/introverted/independent is not a bad thing, and that those characteristics are not things that can be changed by an extra year of preschool. They aren't things that should be changed at all.
I was extremely introverted as a child. I am still introverted now but I didn't really learn how to be "on" until my early 20s when I started my first full time job. I still prefer not to talk to strangers, and as someone else stated I don't always follow the group- even today. I just don't need that kind of external validation. I never recall teachers or my parents being concerned about me. In fact I don't recall people being held back for anything except academics, and I am only 32. Maybe this is how millennials parent?
I do agree that coping skills can be taught for some things, but you can start that now. There are still many months before kindergarten starts and who knows what you will see. I just think these skills are something you work on throughout childhood and even in high school no reason to hold the kid back.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 13:20:31 GMT -5
Being introverted does not change. Self awareness and skills at mitigating social norms/situations certainly increase with time. im not sure how much difference a year at that age brings?
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 14, 2014 13:29:15 GMT -5
The teachers said academically he's ready. At our first conference of the year they said he's ready. It's the social part that I worry about. OK, not to beat this horse, but is that how they phrased it? "Academically, he's ready." ? Because that does sound a little like an indication that they think he's ready in one area - academics - and maybe not in others.
Teachers are often positive people (good thing) and phrase things positively. You have to listen to what they say and also what they don't say. There could be hesitations they don't know how to phrase or for some reason think you aren't ready/able to hear. Not saying this is the case here, just giving you something to consider.
Notice the difference between the two:
"Your kid is ready for Kindergarten."
"Academically, your kid is ready for Kindergarten."
I bring it up because you've posted it twice, so it's something you may have noticed as well?
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Jan 14, 2014 13:32:42 GMT -5
Our cut-off date is August 31. You guys are weird. I was an August baby, so one of the youngest in my class. I was/am shy/introverted but get along fine with my peers (I didn't like talking to adults) and was always at the top academically. I don't think holding your son back would help him socially if the rest of his classmates/friends are moving onto kindergarten without him.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 14, 2014 13:34:04 GMT -5
He sits by himself while they do their song and dance in the mornings and then joins the group once everyone sits down for story time.
Maybe he just hates song/dance time? I have to be drunk in order to do those things in front of other people. I will join in other group activities of my choice though. Not saying get your 4 year old drunk , but I think you need more information than that to decide if he's lagging socially. I also hate really rambuncious people. It makes me edgy to be around them. I don't expect everyone to be quiet around me but you won't see me socialing with the guy who has a lampshade on his head at a party. Doesn't mean I can't interact socially. Then Gwen decides every other day she hates pre-school and wants to stay home. I get her there and according to the teachers she's fine the rest of the day.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Jan 14, 2014 13:37:46 GMT -5
I was 4. I think the cut off was Nov 1 or 15th not sure. I was always the youngest in class.
Both my youngest and I graduated at 17. My oldest was 18 1/2 and he wasn't held back. My youngest and I just made the cutoff, my oldest missed it by a couple days.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 14, 2014 13:42:26 GMT -5
I red shirted DD. She is an Oct baby. Cut off was Nov 30
She used to get so nervous going to nursery school she would vomit. I wanted school to be a positive experience do I held back putting her in pre k until she was actyly supposed to be starting k. Best thing I could have done.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 14, 2014 13:42:47 GMT -5
Drama jiggled a memory loose. I knew K was ready for K4 because she'd tell me every morning she didn't want to go to dcp. I think I've had 2-4 days where she's said she didn't want to go to school since we started her in the public school. And a bit of questioning produced the info that there was something specific going on.
In her K4 class, there was a boy who took up a LOT of the teacher's time. He was the youngest in the class and not ready socially or emotionally. I talked to his grandmother a few times - he loved, loved, LOVED his dcp and hated public school. She'd been a teacher and my sense was that she thought he wasn't ready for K4. The grapevine says the teacher recommended that he be held back to repeat K4. The family's not at the school this year so I don't know what they did. There was a messy divorce going on too.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jan 14, 2014 13:47:59 GMT -5
I'm surprised by a December cut off. Ours is end September. People should be careful saying they want to homeschool but don't think its possible... T might tempt others to start talking about how, of course it is... No seriously, ill keep quiet. But message if you want ideas... Ok, I'll tempt the beast. After a lot of thought, I would like to homeschool rather than traditional school. Beyond that, I might even like to unschool a bit. I do not think I can do it - both DH and I work full time, 8-5 plus commutes. If you can figure out how to homeschool around that/figure out how to stop paying daycare, I'm all ears!
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Jan 14, 2014 13:49:40 GMT -5
I red shirted DD. She is an Oct baby. Cut off was Nov 30 She used to get so nervous going to nursery school she would vomit. I wanted school to be a positive experience do I held back putting her in pre k until she was actyly supposed to be starting k. Best thing I could have done. This is the best thing to do. I remember being in K and crying because I had gotten a run in my tights. I sat there crying. Mom had to come and get me. I think she was embarrassed that I was carrying on because I thought I was going to get in trouble. I have no idea why I was scared because my parents were never hitters or yellers or anything like that. I also remember being dropped off the bus at the end of the road which wasn't that far away from my house but still far for a 4 year old. That never happened again.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jan 14, 2014 14:05:18 GMT -5
My birthday is September 1, which used to be the cut off date (or was ridicilously close) in the school district I attended, so I started kindergarten very close to my fifth birthday. I had to repeat kindergarten. I turned out fine and my elementary/middle/high school years were completely fine.
I could have been the youngest kid in my grade level but I ended up being one of the oldest (there were kids older than me even with repeating).
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