FL man stands his theater seat over texting argument

[zibazinski]

No, it actually doesn't.

[Deleted]

Jan 14, 2014 13:06:54 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Not what she's upset about. This gives the govt more grounds to barge into citizens lives, for their own protection, of course.

Still, she should work on her draw.   I bet that 71 year old was fast for an old guy because he was an ex cop.  She doesn't want to be caught dead with her pistol in her pocket because someone else had had more practice with a piece.

[zibazinski]

.  Archie!

[EVT1]

www.cnn.com/2014/01/14/justice/florida-movie-theater-shooting/

Well here it is:

     During an interview with Reeves with his arrest, and after the former cop was read his Miranda rights, Reeves admitted to firing his weapon at the victim because "he was in fear of being attacked," according to the police report.


     Reeves told police that Oulson had hit him with what the police report describes as an "unknown object."

(bag of popcorn)

Good enough for FL. 

[mollyanna58]

Good enough for FL.

He's been charged with 2nd degree murder.  That seems appropriate.

[chiver78]

Jan 14, 2014 13:07:54 GMT -5 Rocky Mtn Saver said:

Jan 14, 2014 13:04:57 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

That wasnt made clear in the Tampa report. Some say wife, some say girlfriend. Others say another person just sitting there. So, of course, DD who has a concealed like I do, is all up in arms about this since she texts in movies as well. OMG. 

I don't believe it was just a person sitting there.  All the reports I've read list the incident as taking place between "two couples".  Wife or girlfriend, that makes no difference. 

it is in fact his wife.

[jkapp]

Jan 14, 2014 11:19:08 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

If the crazy old guy didn't have a gun the shooting wouldn't have happened either. Which sounds doable; making everyone be polite at all times, or taking guns away from old people?

Making everyone polite and having everyone show actual consideration for others are two different things.  The latter has only gotten worse with the advent of digital technology.  iPhones and other devices have shown just how little people think about each other, and also how self-centered a majority of society really is.

If we can force people to stop using language that others find offensive, then why not also force them to consider other people when out in public?  If one is not doable, then neither is doable, and we should stop trying to make them happen. 

[Sum Dum Gai]

We haven't forced people to stop using language that others find offensive.  I still hear the words n_____ and **** used occasionally and they're about the most offensive words I can think of.

[zibazinski]

No kidding. It used to be just trashy people used language like that. Now everyone does and it says a lot about our society. You want to spew filth? At least do it in private.

[EVT1]

    
 abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/man-fatally-shot-fla-theater-texting-21531718?page=2


      Reeves' attorney, Richard Escobar, argued that his client should be released because of his deep ties to the community.

      Escobar said the probable cause document was "quite weak" and that Reeves was defending himself.

     "The alleged victim attacked him," Escobar said, adding that Oulson threw something, possibly popcorn, at Reeves. "At that point in time he has every right to defend himself."

     The judge said that throwing "an unknown object does not equal taking out a gun" and shooting someone.

Amen judge.

[zibazinski]

Wondered what took so long.

[Opti]

I'd love to hear the side of the story told by the wife whose hand
was shot through. I have a feeling the story reported in the article
is all based on what the shooter and possibly his wife said happened.


Too bad we don't have it on video. Did this guy really throw
popcorn. Did the guy who just went to get the gun from the
car do something to esclate the situation?

IDK. The 71 yr old knew he had a gun. Somehow I don't
think you throw popcorn at someone you are pissed at if
you have a more significant weapon in hand. Could be wrong though.
Still, the fact he went to get the gun really shows an intent
to shoot no matter what unfolded next.

[Tennesseer]

What next-attempted assault by Raisonettes?

[grits]

Jan 14, 2014 10:47:50 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Jan 13, 2014 20:31:23 GMT -5 grits said:

That is an extremely racist remark that you made. It is without excuse.

How is it racist?  That's the facts in Florida SYG cases- maybe FL judges and juries are racist- how else do you explain it?

You know it was racist.  What you said was inexcusable, and it damaged your credibility in any future discussions on racism, and gun control.   Trying to back pedal now is not going to change what you said.

[EVT1]

It appears he went to complain to management- not get a gun.

Two things I think about this.  First- he is a retired cop- so even more reason to throw the book at him for his actions.  Second- related to the first- he was breaking the law by carrying in the theater in the first place- so again even more reason to throw the book at him.

But what does he have to lose?  He is going to self defense this thing to the mat.  Probably can't wait to explain why his actions were proper to a jury and shower them with his professional background.  There has to be some mental issue with this guy, might even be one of those accidents just waiting on a place to happen.  Hope it is not common, but I do believe there are people out their carrying just waiting for the right circumstances. 

[grits]

Jan 14, 2014 9:10:36 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 14, 2014 9:02:29 GMT -5 Opti said:

Hmmm. I missed in the article where it stated the guy had a 3300 lb.
missile and the ability to fire it from his back yard or truck. Great
attempt at topic change and deflection from a gun owner who just
shot and killed an annoying person because he was unhappy with the situation.

The less violent option would have been to change your seats ìf possible.  If that was not possible, ask for a ticket refund.

I do not believe the man should have been harmed in any way. Also, when he was asked to stop, he should have done so. This is a case of what seems to be a common rude occurrence in the USA turning into an insane act of violence. One thing that concerns me is the shooter was a Vietnam vet. Considering our governments lack of recognition, and care for them for decades, I wonder if he had needed/received treatment, could this have been avoided? 

[EVT1]

Jan 14, 2014 19:53:05 GMT -5 grits said:

Jan 14, 2014 10:47:50 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

How is it racist?  That's the facts in Florida SYG cases- maybe FL judges and juries are racist- how else do you explain it?

You know it was racist.  What you said was inexcusable, and it damaged your credibility in any future discussions on racism, and gun control.   Trying to back pedal now is not going to change what you said.

What the heck are you talking about?  I find it funny with some of the real racists around here you would think I was one.  Whatever.

[Opti]

Yes the lawyer is going to use any stupid defense he can some up with.
While I'd like to think any issues from being a soldier would have come
up by now, if he is starting to show signs of dementia or something
similar it could bring those issues back up in his mind.


I don't like rudeness, but shouldn't killing not be acceptable no matter
how rude some one is?

[Tennesseer]

Jan 14, 2014 20:04:01 GMT -5 grits said:

Jan 14, 2014 9:10:36 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The less violent option would have been to change your seats ìf possible.  If that was not possible, ask for a ticket refund.

I do not believe the man should have been harmed in any way. Also, when he was asked to stop, he should have done so. This is a case of what seems to be a common rude occurrence in the USA turning into an insane act of violence. One thing that concerns me is the shooter was a Vietnam vet. Considering our governments lack of recognition, and care for them for decades, I wonder if he had needed/received treatment, could this have been avoided? 

Grits-I do not recall any mention the shooter was a Vietnam Vet.  In the articles, one of the witnesses was a Vietnam Vet.  The shooter was a policeman and police captain for a number of years (20 plus?) then head of security (I believe) for a Florida theme park.

If the guy is mentally ill, he should be locked up anyway.

[EVT1]

Not a stupid defense at all- could work- and if it is going to work anywhere FL is the best place to use it.

Will have to see what happens with the Jordan Davis shooting- if Dunn gets off then this guy will be next.  When fear is a legitimate reason to use deadly force then anything goes.

[grits]

Jan 14, 2014 20:07:19 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Jan 14, 2014 19:53:05 GMT -5 grits said:

You know it was racist.  What you said was inexcusable, and it damaged your credibility in any future discussions on racism, and gun control.   Trying to back pedal now is not going to change what you said.

What the heck are you talking about?  I find it funny with some of the real racists around here you would think I was one.  Whatever.

They may be racists for which their is no excuse but what you said was racist too. You made that remark about it would be okay if the person was black. You should stop being a hypocrite. 

[grits]

One article I read stated that Florida law does not prohibit concealed hand guns in movie theaters. Even though the theater had stickers all over the doors, the state law did not prohibit it. I would like to see the law tweaked to say that any place displaying signs banning possession of hand guns on the premises would be covered under the law.

[EVT1]

Just to add this on the Jordan Davis case- missed this I guess- but this idiot (Dunn- the shooter) sent some very interesting mail:

www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/18/jordan-davis-shooter-michael-dunn_n_4123805.html

     "The jail is full of blacks and they all act like thugs. This may sound a bit radical but if more people would arm themselves and kill these (expletive) idiots, when they're threatening you, eventually they may take the hint and change their behavior"

     "I'm really not prejudiced against race, but I have no use for certain cultures. This gangster-rap, ghetto talking thug 'culture' that certain segments of society flock to is intolerable. They espouse violence and disrespect towards women. The black community here in Jacksonville is in an uproar against me -- the three other thugs that were in the car are telling stories to cover up their true "colors."

     "I am amazed at what is going on with the way the media has been covering this case. Their [sic] have been several other shootings here in Jacksonville, yet they are all either black-on-black or black-on-white, and none of them have garnered any attention from the media. I guess it's news when someone dares to not to be a victim, but they are twisting it around sand saying I was the "bad guy."

     "I'm not getting much in the way of sympathy from the press. They're a bunch of liberal bastards! ... They seem to have a lot of racial guilt, or at least the prosecutors [sic] office does. The jail here is almost all black prisoners. You'd think Jacksonville was 90-90% black judging by the makeup of the folks in jail here! ... My fear is that if I get 1 black on my jury it will be a mistrial as I am convinced they will be racially biased."

And I am a racist   What part of anything you say may be used against you in a court of law did this genius miss?  Drunk guy shoots up a car full of black kids over a loud stereo and flees the scene- yet he is pissed he gets no sympathy from the liberal bastard press.  If this guy walks FL needs to be sold to the highest bidder and we need to put up a fence.

Kind of sounds like a few posters with his rants.  Quite uncanny.

[grits]

You know good and well that you said it would have been acceptable in Florida if the man was black.  Each incident has to be treated on its own merits.

You are no less racist than the fools that committed their own acts of racism.  There was no reason for racism to have even been brought into this discussion.  Yet, you openly did it, and you know you did it.

I am not the only one who called you on it either.  

[EVT1]

Jan 14, 2014 20:18:26 GMT -5 grits said:

Jan 14, 2014 20:07:19 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

What the heck are you talking about?  I find it funny with some of the real racists around here you would think I was one.  Whatever.

They may be racists for which their is no excuse but what you said was racist too. You made that remark about it would be okay if the person was black. You should stop being a hypocrite. 

I said it would be a bonus if the victim was black- as in a bonus to the defense ala stand your ground.  I do not understand what you are reading into this.  If racism bother you then maybe you should be against these laws- don't recall your stance on it so I won't assume.  I stated facts- SYG laws work really well for white shooters and black victims, not so much the other way around.  And anyone with a brain knows why- how can I be a racist for pointing out racism?

[grits]

You know good and well that it was racist. Race should have never been mentioned in that discussion at all. It was about a retired cop shooting someone at a theater.

In the example you mentioned to try to smoke screen, if the prosecution, and police fail to properly present their case, it is their fault someone gets off. 

In my 34+ years of serving on juries, I have seen some dumb police work, dumb prosecutors, and dumb judges.  I have also seen some dumb defendants, and defense attorneys.  Not once, have I ever witnessed a single racist or sexist act or remark.   

[EVT1]

Jan 14, 2014 20:39:34 GMT -5 grits said:

You know good and well that you said it would have been acceptable in Florida if the man was black.  Each incident has to be treated on its own merits.

You are no less racist than the fools that committed their own acts of racism.  There was no reason for racism to have even been brought into this discussion.  Yet, you openly did it, and you know you did it.

I am not the only one who called you on it either.  

Now I get it- I am a reverse racist for insulting white Floridians.  And you are correct I brought it up- I even thought about deleting that part before I posted it because it would be taken wrong when this case clearly has no race component.  I decided to let it ride and take another shot at FL and its dumb law. So it offends you somehow- well sorry- might have to step on some toes here and again as long as laws like this exist.  Let's be clear- adding race as an element in a discussion is not adding racism.  I was attempting to illustrate racism in practice.

[EVT1]

Jan 14, 2014 20:53:51 GMT -5 grits said:

You know good and well that it was racist. Race should have never been mentioned in that discussion at all. It was about a retired cop shooting someone at a theater.

In the example you mentioned to try to smoke screen, if the prosecution, and police fail to properly present their case, it is their fault someone gets off. 

In my 34+ years of serving on juries, I have seen some dumb police work, dumb prosecutors, and dumb judges.  I have also seen some dumb defendants, and defense attorneys.  Not once, have I ever witnessed a single racist or sexist act or remark.   

How do you get 34 years of jury duty?  Wow.  Might want to look into that.

You do not have to witness anything- prejudice is not racism.  When deciding a self-defense case, there usually comes a point when the question is whether someone was in reasonable fear- and a shitload of white people fear black people.  It is what it is. 

 

[jkapp]

Jan 14, 2014 20:08:52 GMT -5 Opti said:

Yes the lawyer is going to use any stupid defense he can some up with.
While I'd like to think any issues from being a soldier would have come
up by now, if he is starting to show signs of dementia or something
similar it could bring those issues back up in his mind.


I don't like rudeness, but shouldn't killing not be acceptable no matter
how rude some one is?

It could have been the last straw...if this old guy is anything like me, he witnesses constant rude behavior by people throughout the day (especially those with digital devices).  It could have been he had put up with several other texting/cell phone using douchebags that day and one more pushed him over the edge (albeit, still a rather short fuse in this instance).

[jkapp]

Jan 14, 2014 20:31:09 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Just to add this on the Jordan Davis case- missed this I guess- but this idiot (Dunn- the shooter) sent some very interesting mail:

www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/18/jordan-davis-shooter-michael-dunn_n_4123805.html

     "The jail is full of blacks and they all act like thugs. This may sound a bit radical but if more people would arm themselves and kill these (expletive) idiots, when they're threatening you, eventually they may take the hint and change their behavior"

     "I'm really not prejudiced against race, but I have no use for certain cultures. This gangster-rap, ghetto talking thug 'culture' that certain segments of society flock to is intolerable. They espouse violence and disrespect towards women. The black community here in Jacksonville is in an uproar against me -- the three other thugs that were in the car are telling stories to cover up their true "colors."

     "I am amazed at what is going on with the way the media has been covering this case. Their [sic] have been several other shootings here in Jacksonville, yet they are all either black-on-black or black-on-white, and none of them have garnered any attention from the media. I guess it's news when someone dares to not to be a victim, but they are twisting it around sand saying I was the "bad guy."

     "I'm not getting much in the way of sympathy from the press. They're a bunch of liberal bastards! ... They seem to have a lot of racial guilt, or at least the prosecutors [sic] office does. The jail here is almost all black prisoners. You'd think Jacksonville was 90-90% black judging by the makeup of the folks in jail here! ... My fear is that if I get 1 black on my jury it will be a mistrial as I am convinced they will be racially biased."

And I am a racist   What part of anything you say may be used against you in a court of law did this genius miss?  Drunk guy shoots up a car full of black kids over a loud stereo and flees the scene- yet he is pissed he gets no sympathy from the liberal bastard press.  If this guy walks FL needs to be sold to the highest bidder and we need to put up a fence.

Kind of sounds like a few posters with his rants.  Quite uncanny.

I'm not sure the details of this particular case, but I'm interested in what you see as incorrect about the above bolded statements?