zipity
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Post by zipity on Feb 22, 2011 15:04:37 GMT -5
Wouldn't one have to show up to work to filibuster?
Phoning it in seems to be working just fine.
The dem senators fled the state and you say Walker's "hiding"...lmao. More point and blame politics...It's always the repubs fault.
If the dems didn't leave the state Walker would have had his troopers arrest them. Walker can end this anytime he wants and if he wants to save the state $165 mil by refinancing the state's debt he had better settle this by Friday. No one's point fingers, Walker created this situation because he refuses to drop the collective bargaining language, the unions have already given in on the pay/bene cuts. This is simply politics, he want's his 15 minutes of fame.
and so can the dem senate "leadership" if they'd put on their big girl panties and show up for work like the good people of WI are paying them to do.
Perhaps you don't understand the situation but if the dems show up for work the legislature will have a quorum and pass the legislation.
It isn't to balance the current budget, it's too help keep balanced budgets in the future...because as soon as they can, these unions will get back to raping the taxpayer of everything they can.
Yes negotiating with the 'scary' unions can be troubling, especially when they've already agreed to 8% pay and benefit cuts. The governor is a long way from balancing the budget and striping collective bargaining doesn't guarantee that he can maintain a balance even if he happens to achieve one.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 22, 2011 15:13:31 GMT -5
Wisconsin is just the beginning of the negotiating between states and their state workers in order to get their state budgets completed this year. They can try to work with the unions or to work around them to reduce their deficits... There's already grumblings of similar legislation in FL and unions here are already making plans. Maybe if we can get the dems to leave FL we can put that fence up to keep 'em from coming back. Kiddies, take note...Here is today's lesson courtesy of state democrats. If you can't have you way, it's ok to go home and and take a big ole' shit on the country's democratic process. Boy, that's some great leadership dems......
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 22, 2011 15:14:51 GMT -5
Either side could end this - Walker won the election, why should he be the one to give in
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Feb 22, 2011 15:26:45 GMT -5
August 16, 1937 The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.
All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.
Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the constitution of the National Federation of Federal Employees the provision that "under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government." www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 22, 2011 15:32:46 GMT -5
August 16, 1937 The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.
All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.
Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the constitution of the National Federation of Federal Employees the provision that "under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government." www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445FDR - correct?
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Feb 22, 2011 15:35:52 GMT -5
FDR - correct?
Yes
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 22, 2011 15:38:23 GMT -5
Well sometimes I can agree with a Democrat
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 22, 2011 16:14:58 GMT -5
So democrats... Whatever happened to stand by your man?
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 22, 2011 16:16:23 GMT -5
Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Feb 22, 2011 16:17:44 GMT -5
So democrats... Whatever happened to stand by your man? sometimes I can disagree with one
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Feb 22, 2011 16:18:38 GMT -5
Either side could end this - Walker won the election, why should he be the one to give in The same question could be asked about Obama.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 22, 2011 16:26:03 GMT -5
Actually Obama, Pelosi and Reed did exactly that and quoted the same old text. Elections have consequences. Tell me there is not a democrat complaining about the process Walker is using.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 22, 2011 16:30:16 GMT -5
Either side could end this - Walker won the election, why should he be the one to give in The same question could be asked about Obama. Obama should be in D.C. working on the Federal debt crisis - not meddling with the state governments
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 22, 2011 16:46:46 GMT -5
Just my feelings on the matter, a little better factual posting and identification next time would be appreciated, other wise we end up with a board full of political ads as this one is,{tsk, tsk , not nice}Thanks for expressing your "feelings" but you might want to save it for someone that actually gives a shit. Are you a mod.. no? Then try real hard to come up with a semi coherent response to the post and let the mods deal with the format of the content. Those are just my feelings, of course. Now, to my response. Walker, you have my full support and that of many Canadians to crush the greedy, money sucking unions and go even further to fire at least 25% of the entire workforce and let them go on welfare where they would most certainly end up. Then cut that off too. Dalton McGuinty Burns III Burns , wasn't posting to you and as you say , your feelings on much of anything, "who really gives shit"...as you pointed out, definitly not me.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 22, 2011 16:48:19 GMT -5
Wisconsin is just the beginning of the negotiating between states and their state workers in order to get their state budgets completed this year. They can try to work with the unions or to work around them to reduce their deficits... There's already grumblings of similar legislation in FL and unions here are already making plans. Maybe if we can get the dems to leave FL we can put that fence up to keep 'em from coming back. Kiddies, take note...Here is today's lesson courtesy of state democrats. If you can't have you way, it's ok to go home and and take a big ole' shit on the country's democratic process. Boy, that's some great leadership dems...... you know thats not the issue here but good try...
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 22, 2011 16:55:50 GMT -5
I happen to oppose this process both by the Republicans and by the Democrats but also was very opposed to the process in Washington the last couple of years by the Democrats. I do however believe very strongly that organized unions in the public sector do not work and need to be modified. So I personally support removing collective bargaining for benefits out of the contract. This probably won't be the last state to do this.
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 22, 2011 17:14:15 GMT -5
I happen to oppose this process both by the Republicans and by the Democrats but also was very opposed to the process in Washington the last couple of years by the Democrats. I do however believe very strongly that organized unions in the public sector do not work and need to be modified. So I personally support removing collective bargaining for benefits out of the contract. This probably won't be the last state to do this.
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Post by stayput on Feb 22, 2011 17:21:50 GMT -5
"The desire of Government employees ....."
The desire of the overwhelming number of Americans is all that should EVER matter; not the desire of either the government unions or private unions.
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ungenteel
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Post by ungenteel on Feb 22, 2011 20:44:28 GMT -5
what kind of kooks think that the right to collectively bargain will be given up like a walk in the park?
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vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Feb 22, 2011 21:26:54 GMT -5
what kind of kooks think that the right to collectively bargain will be given up like a walk in the park? I think they know they are in for a fight!
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ungenteel
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Post by ungenteel on Feb 22, 2011 21:54:10 GMT -5
<<I think they know they are in for a fight!>>
Who is the "they" of who you speak .. "they" .. the unions .. or "they' the crackpots that think they can do away with collective bargaining
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Feb 22, 2011 23:18:53 GMT -5
Watching the news it seems the Ohio unions are now in a fight there. The public employees unions seem to be in all state government crosshairs. Going to be a long hot summer.
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 23, 2011 9:27:14 GMT -5
Ya I'm afraid it's going to be hot for more then one summer as more and more people finally hit the wall and realize our standard of living in this country does not allow us to compete with our foreign competition. In this case FDR already knew in 1937 that collective bargaining in the public sector would not work but politicians in their desire to be elected were willing to promise whatever people wanted to hear. Now we have to deal with the consequences but it really is still small potatoes compared to dealing with our massive debt problem. Wait till you hear the squeals when we hit that wall.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 23, 2011 9:32:13 GMT -5
I saw a poster on another board argueing benefits drive up costs on all our goods and services and it is not fair to the consumer,who might not have as good of benefits,if any. Everyone should buy their own and leave employers out of the equation. Thoughts?
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rockon
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Post by rockon on Feb 23, 2011 9:42:59 GMT -5
Back in the day benefits were cheap relative to the wage and were used as a little extra advantage to keep good workers but have become so expensive that there are cases where people actually take a job primarily based on the value of the benefits. When we started our business we actually setup HSA accounts for each individual and put a set amount into each account per month that can be used for any medical need including insurance. This approach provides an equal benefit to all employees instead of having the business by a blanket policy for all when some already have coverage from their spouse's place of employment and it eliminates the inequality of providing family coverage to one employee and single coverage to another. Not sure who thought the employer should decide what policy is best for all employees. We don't tell them what car to drive or what house they have to live in so I don't like making employers responsible for what insurance they must use.
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zipity
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Post by zipity on Feb 23, 2011 11:04:56 GMT -5
The desire of the overwhelming number of Americans is all that should EVER matter; not the desire of either the government unions or private unions. Exactly, in fact the overwhelming number of Americans should even matter more than the Governor. "Americans strongly oppose laws taking away the collective bargaining power of public employee unions, according to a new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll. The poll found 61% would oppose a law in their state similar to such a proposal in Wisconsin, compared with 33% who would favor such a law." www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-02-22-poll-public-unions-wisconsin_N.htm
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Post by marjar on Feb 23, 2011 11:17:47 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 23, 2011 11:28:56 GMT -5
Relax, bro. It's finally over. This is the last gasp of the unions. There are already more people that watch the knitting network on cable 893 than belong to private sector unions.
When workers have CHOICE, they choose wisely.
CHOICE is coming to public sector unions-- and if it doesn't, then involuntary reductions in the labor force are coming. The alternative to the bill in Wisconsin is 6,000 fewer state employees.
And frankly, I'm not as committed as the Republican governor of Wisconsin to saving public sector jobs. In a state with 1 government worker for every 183 people, I'd up that ratio to 1:10,000 but then I'm not a moderate like Walker.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 23, 2011 11:31:17 GMT -5
That poll is NOT of likely voters, so it really doesn't matter. You poll idiots, you get idiotic answers-- which is what they did- on purpose.
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zipity
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Post by zipity on Feb 23, 2011 11:37:30 GMT -5
That poll is NOT of likely voters, so it really doesn't matter.
I didn't know there was going to be a vote. Is collective bargaining running for office somewhere?
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