Urgent appeal to stop public unions NOW

[Deleted]

Supreme Court on Thursday ruled that the government may not ban political spending by corporations in candidate elections.

www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/us/politics/22scotus.html

[Deleted]

Not to mention PACs

[zipity]

Feb 25, 2011 17:03:47 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

This is one of the best twisting of logic-- borders on logic contortion-- I've ever read. Democrat lawmakers are depriving the electorate of their vote. They sent their representatives to Madison to do their bidding, and Democrats are using illegal tactics to avoid voting. If they oppose it- vote "no". That's their option. But they can't just throw a temper tantrum and run away and threaten to stay gone until they are guaranteed to get their way.

I can understand how someone who can't fathom the logic of a state's constitution would have a problem with my argument. Perhaps you should have a friend explain to you why it would be in a state's best interest to require a quorum as part of the state's constitution. Then perhaps you could understand the logic that seems to be escaping you.

Feb 25, 2011 17:03:47 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

As it stands, they have forced the lay offs of nearly 10,000 of the workers they are supposed to be standing up for. Layoffs will be effective in July, so if they come back and the bill passes-- it is possible the governor will have the resources to rescind the layoffs and do what he has proposed all along-- save public employee union jobs..

Again a big picture view might be in order here. The HUGE layoff number is due to the fact that the Governor's window of opportunity to save $165 million by refinancing WI's debt expired yesterday. Now he will have to lay off thousands to continue his dream of stripping collective bargaining. That too however will come back to bite him because, at least with the teachers, they will now all be eligible for unemployment over the summer. Usually teachers can't claim unemployment but thanks to Walker's collective bargaining language, it will be a fun summer at the beach for WI teachers courtesy of the WI taxpayers.

The real funny part to all of this is that a large majority of American's do not support striping collective bargaining rights from public employees. Republican's are aggressively pissing away their hopes for 2012 by reminding America why she voted them out in 2008. So pubs, keep up the good work and No-Bama will be Yes-Bama before you know what happened.

[zipity]

Feb 25, 2011 17:06:11 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

Actually, as far as I can tell they can't even be arrested.. or escorted to the building. Since it isn't actually an illegal tactic (as far as I can tell). Could be wrong though. Anyone want to quote state statute to prove me wrong?

Actually requiring a quorum is part of the WI constitution and from what I've seen there is no law forcing legislators to vote or even attend a legislative session.

Interesting side story on a historical figure who attempted to use the same tactic, although he didn't get away with it.

That's when Lincoln determined to keep the legislature in session in order to buy precious time for the bank to find a way to survive, and that's how he jumped into the national limelight on December 5, 1840. On that date, the Democrats proposed an early adjournment, knowing this would bring a speedy end to the State Bank. The Whigs tried to counter by leaving the capitol building before the vote, but the doors were locked. That's when Lincoln made his move. He headed for the second story, opened a window and jumped to the ground!

For a while Lincoln's escape denied the House its quorum, but it didn't last long. He was returned to the chambers and the House voted to adjourn.

swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/02/25/annals-of-fleeing-state-legislatures-autodefenestration-edition/

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Actually requiring a quorum is part of the WI constitution and from what I've seen there is no law forcing legislators to vote or even attend a legislative session

The Wisconsin Constitution is law.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Did you know...federal employees have no collective bargaining rights? They were stripped away by Jimmy Carter. That is why Barack Obama can decree a freeze in federal worker's pay. Suck on them eggs.

[hello fromWarsaw]

The American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE) is an American labor union representing over 600,000 employees of the federal government, about 5,000 employees of the District of Columbia, and a few hundred private sector employees, mostly in and around federal facilities. AFGE is the largest union for civilian, non-postal federal employees and the largest union for District of Columbia employees who report directly to the mayor (i.e., outside of DC Public Schools). It is affiliated with the AFL-CIO.

[hello fromWarsaw]

?

[stayput]

"Gov. Scott Walker is close to the finish line and victory -- but the battle is not over.

Despite a solid vote of 51-17 in the Wisconsin state assembly to defeat the bloated public employee unions, the state Senate can't vote because Democrats remain in hiding.

And Gov. Walker has warned of over 12, 000 layoffs of state workers if the the Senate does not pass his bill.

Clearly this week is showdown week!

But Gov. Walker is under fierce attack, and the big unions and President Obama's leftwing allies are pouring millions -- I mean millions! -- into Wisconsin to force Gov. Walker and the state Senate to cave.

There are some indications these leftwing efforts are paying off.

Here's what the New York Times reported Saturday: "Some Republican leaders in other states have moderated their talk against state employee unions in recent days."

This is why the League of American Voters efforts are so critical.

This is a battle of public opinion that will affect the final vote in the Wisconsin Senate.

The League is already at the forefront in Wisconsin exposing the lies of the public employee unions.

The League of American Voters is the lead group defending and supporting Gov. Scott Walker.

So, far the League has unleashed a barrage of radio ads across the state of Wisconsin demanding that legislators stand with Gov. Walker -- and reminding the public that taxpayers can't afford the big salaries and lavish pension benefits of public employees.

And just this weekend, the League is making a telephone call to hundreds of thousands of Wisconsin citizens revealing that Gov. Walker's plan will dramatically improve education standards, by allowing incompetent teachers to be fired, giving good teachers merit pay and allowing parents the right to school choice.

For the big unions this is Armageddon!

If they lose in once liberal Wisconsin, they can be defeated in almost every state in the union. And they know this!

This is why I am urging you to support the League's Wisconsin and national efforts to expose the big unions and defend Gov. Walker.

The League urgently needs your financial support to continue its campaign this week.

As you know, the League was one of the leading groups that fought Obamacare. It has been credited with defeating Obama's "public option" -- which, if passed, would have destroyed private health care completely.

And last year the League led the fight to renew the Bush Tax Cuts with a national TV campaign featuring former Sen. Fred Thompson.

The League won that battle too.

Now, they are fighting this critical battle to restore fiscal sanity to this nation and to defend a true American hero, Gov. Scott Walker.

Please stand with Gov. Walker and us today
Thank you.

Sincerely,

Dick Morris

P.S. My sources tell me that the Democrats are planning a new wave of attacks on Gov. Walker this week. They are trying to stall a final vote, believing time is on their side. They think if they spend enough money on ads, they will win public support. That's why the League's work is so important and why they need your support right now."

[hello fromWarsaw]

He didn't. Right-wingers always have to lie to support their positions. What does that say about their positions if they are never supported by facts?

The legislation Carter passed GUARANTEED federal workers the rights to join unions and to collectively bargain.

- from yahoo...

[pappyjohn99]

The Wisconsin Senate seems to have slightly less powerful rules but does allow for a quorum call:

Senate Rule 15. Roll call, quorum. Before proceeding to business, the roll of the members shall be called, and the names of those present and those absent shall be entered on the journal. A majority of the membership presently serving must be present to constitute a quorum for the transaction of business; a smaller number, however, can adjourn; and may compel the attendance of absent members. When any roll call discloses the lack of a quorum, no further business may be conducted until a quorum is obtained, but the members present may take measures to procure a quorum or may adjourn.

Bold by me.

I'm in Wisconsin. I, and most of the people I speak with at the company I work for are in favor of the "Cuff 'em and stuff 'em" method of compelling the absent members to return to work.

[Deleted]

Carter's deal only allowed collective bargaining on employment issues, as in human resources-- nothing else. I had all the links last night. Don't have them now, not going to look for them, either. All of Obama's federal union workers are basically without collective bargaining rights, and Jimmy Carter, a Dem POTUS with a DEM Congress, is responsible for this. This is why Obama has to qwork behind the scenes with his thug. He cannot go front line with this, since the people under him, the Fed union workers, do not have these rights. CARTER recognized the danger. CARTER!!! Hello?? Carter???

[hello fromWarsaw]

What do all these federal unions do then?Two weeks till our birthday! and my mother's...Truth seems to be bipolar these days...

[hello fromWarsaw]

Carter was very unlucky, had lots of good ideas, many fiscally responsible ones, which DEMS didn't go along with..

[Deleted]

Carter did away with collective bargaining for the fed unions, aside from employment issues. That is why Obama has to be so careful now, politically. Carter-- the Dem, with a Dem Congress-- did away with collective bargaining. Dems do not need that becoming public knowledge all these years later. Some try to blame it on Reagun, but Carter did it.

[privateinvestor]

Our Governor will NOT challenge the powerful Teacher's Union in CA. Even the republicans out here will NOT make a serious move to end collective bargaining for state workers especially when it entails cops, firefighters, prison guards, and teachers....These unions have considerable poltical power in California and some may say they actually run the state legislators to do their beckoning...

[privateinvestor]

The public also deserves to think about all the state representatives they voted for who repeatedly voted to expand retirement benefits especially health care for state government workers and their families that has now turned out to be more expensive than the pensions..

[safeharbor37]

The voters, who are the real employers of public employees, generally go along with whatever public employees want because; 1] They want the services provided by public employees and; 2] most voters don't really pay a lot of taxes so it's "no skin off their teeth."
It is only now, when the government itself is faltering, that the public has become aroused. Suddenly it's become obvious that everyone is going to suffer, not just the taxable "rich," so Joe Six-Pack is getting involved. Government employees themselves, having become accustomed to shelter from the trials and tribulation of the real economy, are incensed that they are actually being asked to "share the pain." Unions, themselves accustomed to preferential treatment due to their voting clout, and being therefore spoiled rotten, are throwing temper tantrums at being denied their privileged status.
The unions and government employees in general, living all these years in socialistic splendor, are being asked to play on a level field and can't deal with it.

Even such modest and apparently moderate and modern institutions as labor unions, since they are based on the denial that a free market in labor can be expected to produce the best outcome for wage laborers, begin to faithfully reproduce, when successful enough, the forms and evils of the mediaeval guild. Jack London, the famous author but also a serious Marxist, memorably claimed that any worker who worked harder or was more productive than his fellows was already a "scab," i.e. a traitor to the cause of the workers' union. Since unions typically negotiate wages based only on seniority, or (in a more professional context) on credentials, there certainly is no incentive for workers to work harder or be more productive. But if productivity in general were to cease to increase, wealth would cease to increase and it would become impossible for life to improve.

www.friesian.com/conserv.htm

[zipity]

Feb 26, 2011 22:59:08 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

The Wisconsin Constitution is law.

Very good, you win a cookie.
javascript:add("%20%20")

Now it would be great if every effected union worker in WI decided to not show up to work. 170,000 or so, not collecting trash, not teaching their kids...... Walker has his victory with pay and benefit cuts, it's time for him to end this.

[stayput]

Feb 27, 2011 22:50:54 GMT -5 zipity said:

Feb 26, 2011 22:59:08 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

The Wisconsin Constitution is law.

Very good, you win a cookie.
javascript:add("%20%20")

Now it would be great if every effected union worker in WI decided to not show up to work. 170,000 or so, not collecting trash, not teaching their kids...... Walker has his victory with pay and benefit cuts, it's time for him to end this.

The best way for Gov. Walker to end this is to FIRE all of them, and to bring in NON Union people who would love to replace all of the Socialist teachers, cops, transit, trash removal, etc., workers.

[zipity]

The best way for Gov. Walker to end this is to FIRE all of them, and to bring in NON Union people who would love to replace all of the Socialist teachers, cops, transit, trash removal, etc., workers.

He's too much of a wanker to fire them all but that would be great if he did. Replace them the bunch with untrained teachers, cops, transit, trash removal workers, miss the opportunity to refinance the states debt all while driving a legislature that can't move because it doesn't have a quorum. It would be interesting to see.

[stayput]

Feb 28, 2011 23:17:38 GMT -5 zipity said:

The best way for Gov. Walker to end this is to FIRE all of them, and to bring in NON Union people who would love to replace all of the Socialist teachers, cops, transit, trash removal, etc., workers.

He's too much of a wanker to fire them all but that would be great if he did. Replace them the bunch with untrained teachers, cops, transit, trash removal workers, miss the opportunity to refinance the states debt all while driving a legislature that can't move because it doesn't have a quorum. It would be interesting to see.

And this would be different from those people currently in those positions how? What is there now, is over paid, under worked, worthless individuals. No matter who replaces them, you can't go anywhere but up in the quality (lack there of) of what Wisconsin is currently straddled with now.

[deziloooooo]

Feb 23, 2011 11:28:56 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Relax, bro. It's finally over. This is the last gasp of the unions. There are already more people that watch the knitting network on cable 893 than belong to private sector unions.

When workers have CHOICE, they choose wisely.

CHOICE is coming to public sector unions-- and if it doesn't, then involuntary reductions in the labor force are coming. The alternative to the bill in Wisconsin is 6,000 fewer state employees.

And frankly, I'm not as committed as the Republican governor of Wisconsin to saving public sector jobs. In a state with 1 government worker for every 183 people, I'd up that ratio to 1:10,000 but then I'm not a moderate like Walker.

1/10,000 sure you would..lets see.what would be cut..those who work on the roadas, cut the grass on the esplanads, parks, playground, libraries, the garbage pick up, water people, fire and police of course, the tax people in the office, records, burth, death certificates, ops , almost forgot , teaches, administrations, custodial staff, animal control,legal staff and their staff, prosecutors, defense attorneys, and their staffs, ...and so many more ,,,,