milee
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Post by milee on Dec 27, 2013 13:43:22 GMT -5
Makes sense. Thanks.
Just to clarify, I didn't want these owners to put their dogs down. Keeping them at home behind a secure fence would be OK.
Dogs that don't get walked and exposed to normal human society are more likely to overreact in a scenario that you don't want (screaming children, kids on bikes, etc). The owners are being responsible pet owners by walking them on a leash. Yes, I understand socialization is good. I just think it's risky to socialize them in this way - walking in a pack - when it's obvious that the couple would not have physical control over the dogs if they decide to misbehave. Having the male unneutered adds to the potential risk as does having him walk in a pack with females, who he might understandably be protective of.
I have no reason to assume and am not assuming that these are evil dogs just waiting to eat my kid. My concern is that there is zero margin for error here. If the owners have properly trained them and if their genetics don't encourage them to bite and if there is nothing around that distracts them and if none of them becomes fixated on a bike and if ... etc, etc., then it will all be fine. But if a single one of the "ifs" isn't true, then given the size of the dogs there is nothing that will stop them from seriously hurting someone.
That's a lot of "ifs" especially since it's tough to communicate with the owners. Just an iffy situation.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Dec 27, 2013 13:47:52 GMT -5
Walking in a pack is the BEST way to maintain control of a large animal. I'm only on page 3. But it's clear nobody can make you feel better about this situation.
So you have to figure out your options. You can keep your kid at home, behind a fence. You can move. You can buy your kid a taser... these are things you can actually DO.
Wishing the people didn't have a large dog that you are afraid of isn't going to help anyone, including your son. As far as I can tell, they are legally being good dog owners, walking it on a leash, in a pack. I don't know what more you want. Yes, they should probably have it neutered - but I've found it's very cultural whether to neuter your dog or not. That may be in play here.
Your child is much more likely to be in a car accident, involved in drugs, etc. Try to focus on actual statistics than gut feelings.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 27, 2013 13:48:05 GMT -5
I can't help it if you can't read English. Or if you get so worked up about something that you're reacting to what you think you read rather than what is written.
Still waiting on you to provide a quote that shows I said any of the things you claimed... you started calling me a "pit bull advocate" and telling me my input was biased. so really, you're doing the same thing that you keep accusing everyone else of doing. does this mean you can't read English? After you posted a series of things that either assumed things that weren't true or flat out misstated what had been posted, I attempted to mollify you by calling you an advocate for pit bulls; acknowledging your bias in the hopes that you would feel acknowledged and would stop posting since the posts were either not helpful or not based on the situation described.
I understand your opinion on this issue and was hoping to get the opinions of others who might not yet have posted but not want to get involved with a thread where someone was emotionally responding to the situation.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 27, 2013 13:50:27 GMT -5
Walking in a pack is the BEST way to maintain control of a large animal. I'm only on page 3. But it's clear nobody can make you feel better about this situation. So you have to figure out your options. You can keep your kid at home, behind a fence. You can move. You can buy your kid a taser... these are things you can actually DO. Wishing the people didn't have a large dog that you are afraid of isn't going to help anyone, including your son. As far as I can tell, they are legally being good dog owners, walking it on a leash, in a pack. I don't know what more you want. Yes, they should probably have it neutered - but I've found it's very cultural whether to neuter your dog or not. That may be in play here. Your child is much more likely to be in a car accident, involved in drugs, etc. Try to focus on actual statistics than gut feelings. OK, reasonable thoughts and suggestions.
Also a good point about neutering being cultural. In the US, sometimes we assume people who haven't neutered aren't responsible pet owners because that's part of the responsible pet culture here, but not necessarily the case in other countries.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 27, 2013 13:57:24 GMT -5
you started calling me a "pit bull advocate" and telling me my input was biased. so really, you're doing the same thing that you keep accusing everyone else of doing. does this mean you can't read English? After you posted a series of things that either assumed things that weren't true or flat out misstated what had been posted, I attempted to mollify you by calling you an advocate for pit bulls; acknowledging your bias in the hopes that you would feel acknowledged and would stop posting since the posts were either not helpful or not based on the situation described.
I understand your opinion on this issue and was hoping to get the opinions of others who might not yet have posted but not want to get involved with a thread where someone was emotionally responding to the situation.
what did I write that was so untrue or misstated? I posted useful information- factual information that could be backed up... about teaching kids not to stare at unfamiliar dogs, about how dogs that are being walked regularly are more balanced etc. some of the same things that are currently being posted by others. because I mentioned the words "pit bulls" like twice you decided all my posts were biased and that I was to be a pit bull advocate even after saying that i was not. You even answered a post honestly... and then came back and got rude regarding the same post. You made inferences and statements just like everyone else is doing but I acknowledged that and didn't say "YOU CAN'T READ ENGLISH!" like you are doing to others that do the exact same thing. You do it, acceptable... someone else does it, people can't freaking read! I guess I just don't understand why you have to insult people or belittle people that are attempting to help or figure out the situation.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 27, 2013 14:02:36 GMT -5
If I believed that what you are doing was helpful in figuring out the situation, then I'd be very grateful.
But anecdotal stories about friendly dogs you have met and your opinion on what causes dogs to attack aren't helpful. And your responses to things that weren't said were especially unhelpful.
Again, let's just stipulate that you like dogs, believe these dogs do not pose any threat and move on. We understand your position.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Dec 27, 2013 14:03:59 GMT -5
OK Milee, I finished up the thread. I don't think you're a dog hater. Sounds like you're being an overly- cautious Mom. Most of us on here have been there and done that in one way or another. If you get bad joo-joo vibes from the dog, you just have to stay away from it. It doesn't sound to me like the owners are doing anything out of the ordinary and if anything, are being responsible, good dog owners. You have to decide for yourself what will make you feel better. Tell your son if he sees those dogs on a bike that he should ride on the other side of the street, or turn around. Or do as I suggested and try to 'meet' the dog and see more aptly what his personality is. I don't think there's anything wrong with exercising caution. I used to do a ton of dog rescue work, but now with a 2 yr old at home, I have to be very careful what I expose myself and my daughter to. The truth is - you don't know this dog. So treat him like you would a stranger. Proceed with caution but keep an open mind. And if anecdotes will help you feel better, I once rescued a Presa Canario - looks scary as all get out: But it was a giant baby who cowered from all my other dogs who were much smaller. I also didn't realize these dogs are worth thousands of dollars so generally the people that buy them (not for ill-intents) know what they are getting. edit- I saw you just said anecdotes aren't helpful - well, that may be. But aren't you afraid because of others' bad anecdotes? Just trying to maintain balance to the force here.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Dec 27, 2013 14:08:16 GMT -5
you started calling me a "pit bull advocate" and telling me my input was biased. so really, you're doing the same thing that you keep accusing everyone else of doing. does this mean you can't read English? After you posted a series of things that either assumed things that weren't true or flat out misstated what had been posted, I attempted to mollify you by calling you an advocate for pit bulls; acknowledging your bias in the hopes that you would feel acknowledged and would stop posting since the posts were either not helpful or not based on the situation described.
I understand your opinion on this issue and was hoping to get the opinions of others who might not yet have posted but not want to get involved with a thread where someone was emotionally responding to the situation.
Serioulsy? Mollify? You're the one getting all fussy. And if insulting a bunch of people's reading comprehension was also an attempt to mollify, you need to look up the word "mollify" because you are doing it wrong. People who don't want to get involved in a thread where someone was emotionally responding to a situation couldn't post here at all. Your response is entirely emotional. While you did purport to have a "fact set" that made your over the top worry understandable, we are still waiting to see it. Bottom line appears to be you want to be upset over two people you don't know well owning large dogs. You are very defensive and rude to anyone who thinks you are overreacting. Unless you actually believe that the preponderance of people here just truly can't read, as you like to keep claiming? Why do you need everyone to agree with you? Quite frankly, I don't think I'm even certain what you need us to agree with? Should we stipulate that the dogs are a menace-in-waiting? There's really nothing you can do about it if they are. Maybe that is the answer you have been waiting for. You can't legally kill them or force these people to move. Calling their (presumed) landlord to try to get them booted when they have done nothing wrong that you know of would make you a pretty horrible person. You can keep your son inside or in your backyard or highly supervised. There's your solution.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Dec 27, 2013 14:10:10 GMT -5
If I believed that what you are doing was helpful in figuring out the situation, then I'd be very grateful.
But anecdotal stories about friendly dogs you have met and your opinion on what causes dogs to attack aren't helpful. And your responses to things that weren't said were especially unhelpful.
Again, let's just stipulate that you like dogs, believe these dogs do not pose any threat and move on. We understand your position. We understand your position as well. Everyone who might think you are overreacting is an illiterate boob. And drunk. Also, use only organic lemons.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 27, 2013 14:11:55 GMT -5
Well, you got the part about the organic lemons right at least. This is progress.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 27, 2013 14:24:04 GMT -5
If I believed that what you are doing was helpful in figuring out the situation, then I'd be very grateful.
But anecdotal stories about friendly dogs you have met and your opinion on what causes dogs to attack aren't helpful. And your responses to things that weren't said were especially unhelpful.
Again, let's just stipulate that you like dogs, believe these dogs do not pose any threat and move on. We understand your position. well hell... half of this thread is anecdotes, both good and bad from posters. this board just gave you dozens and dozens of completely unhelpful posts! and honeybbq- your information about walking dogs isn't helpful either. (I said something very similar several pages back) I think it is hilarious that you are so adamantly against everything I say. I do love animals and people and volunteer extensively with training and rehabilitation. I have trained a therapy dog. I am quite knowledgeable with regards to animal behavior and warning signs etc. Though shockingly, I've done very little work for/with pit bulls... but narrowly escaped being attacked by one (even though you decided i was an advocate) I also never said "these dogs do not pose any threat" - you put those words in my mouth. And shockingly I still believe you read english. but if it makes you feel better to be condescending and nasty to posters then go ahead, apparently you need that.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Dec 27, 2013 14:38:13 GMT -5
Well, I apologize for my one and only post on this thread only because I went back and re-read the OP and your FIRST sentence spelled out very clearly that this was a vent and that there wasn't anything you could do about it.
However, what bothers me the most is that you are basically saying that your neighborhood is too good for people who own large, multiple dogs. As if you associate that with gangs or low-income or something. What's next, when someone moves in with a car that isn't a luxury name-brand? If I'm wrong, then I apologize again. But that's what I'm getting from this thread...I believe it was singlemominmd that mentioned this already.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Dec 27, 2013 14:40:49 GMT -5
Well, you got the part about the organic lemons right at least. This is progress. Dumb question, but aren't most random fruit tree fruits in FL organic? Lemon, lime, orange, mango, and grapefruit trees in FL are about as common as dandelions. Do people (not the orchard owners, the owners of a random tree in the front yard) actually do anything to the trees so the fruit would not be organic?
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 27, 2013 14:48:08 GMT -5
Well, you got the part about the organic lemons right at least. This is progress. Dumb question, but aren't most random fruit tree fruits in FL organic? Lemon, lime, orange, mango, and grapefruit trees in FL are about as common as dandelions. Do people (not the orchard owners, the owners of a random tree in the front yard) actually do anything to the trees so the fruit would not be organic? is it really limoncello if it isn't made from italian lemons? Those lemons from the amalfi coast can get to be the size of your head!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 27, 2013 14:52:03 GMT -5
I think we all have biases. I'm afraid of big dogs and make no excuses for my fear. The issue isn't the friendly ones, the issue is the significant harm they can do if you run across one that isn't the friendly, lovely dogs that you all know. Even thyme said that German shepherd (I think that was the type of dog) was scary until it got to know you.
Kids are impulsive and so stupid things. That is human nature. To say that these dogs will be great as long as the kids know how to behave around them is crazy. I would no sooner leave my kids around a dog that they have to know how to behave around than I would leave them around unlocked and loaded guns. I expect kids to be stupid. It is my job to make sure their stupidity doesn't get them killed.
That said, if the dogs are on leashes they are probably fine. i fully admit that I error on the side of caution to the point of being neurotic. If the dogs scared me, I would teach my kids to come in the house if they saw them being walked. I am petrified of big dogs and have seen dogs get spooked and take off one their owners before (where they can't be controlled).
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 27, 2013 14:53:07 GMT -5
And now I want limoncello!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Dec 27, 2013 14:54:47 GMT -5
Dumb question, but aren't most random fruit tree fruits in FL organic? Lemon, lime, orange, mango, and grapefruit trees in FL are about as common as dandelions. Do people (not the orchard owners, the owners of a random tree in the front yard) actually do anything to the trees so the fruit would not be organic? is it really limoncello if it isn't made from italian lemons? Those lemons from the amalfi coast can get to be the size of your head! My BIL made limoncello from the lemons in his yard. But he's Italian (via South Philly), so that counts, right?
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 27, 2013 14:56:47 GMT -5
A lot of the random fruit trees in the yards here (citrus, mango, papaya, banana, lichee) are mostly organic. But some people do use chemical fertilizers in their yard (which probably doesn't harm Limoncello) and some also spray for bugs (pesticide would not be something you want in Limoncello.) I don't understand it, but about 3/4 of the people on our street have pest control companies come and literally hose down their entire yard with chemicals - the guy wears something that looks like a hazmat suit. Guess the idea is to kill every living thing. Definitely not a yard you want to get citrus to make Limoncello from.
Not sure if it's really Limoncello if it's not made with Italian lemons. Maybe not. My Meyer lemons are about the size of a softball, but not the size of your head. They're also really fragrant, but not exactly the same thing as the Italian lemons. The stuff made from them is good, so even if it's not authentic, it's nice.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 27, 2013 14:57:03 GMT -5
is it really limoncello if it isn't made from italian lemons? Those lemons from the amalfi coast can get to be the size of your head! My BIL made limoncello from the lemons in his yard. But he's Italian (via South Philly), so that counts, right? it's tricky. this could be one of those things like bourbon, scotch or champagne...
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Dec 27, 2013 15:00:56 GMT -5
A lot of the random fruit trees in the yards here (citrus, mango, papaya, banana, lichee) are mostly organic. But some people do use chemical fertilizers in their yard (which probably doesn't harm Limoncello) and some also spray for bugs (pesticide would not be something you want in Limoncello.) I don't understand it, but about 3/4 of the people on our street have pest control companies come and literally hose down their entire yard with chemicals - the guy wears something that looks like a hazmat suit. Guess the idea is to kill every living thing. Definitely not a yard you want to get citrus to make Limoncello from.
Not sure if it's really Limoncello if it's not made with Italian lemons. Maybe not. My Meyer lemons are about the size of a softball, but not the size of your head. They're also really fragrant, but not exactly the same thing as the Italian lemons. The stuff made from them is good, so even if it's not authentic, it's nice. Yay!!! My garden is organic!!!!
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 27, 2013 15:01:17 GMT -5
I think we all have biases. I'm afraid of big dogs and make no excuses for my fear. The issue isn't the friendly ones, the issue is the significant harm they can do if you run across one that isn't the friendly, lovely dogs that you all know. Even thyme said that German shepherd (I think that was the type of dog) was scary until it got to know you. Kids are impulsive and so stupid things. That is human nature. To say that these dogs will be great as long as the kids know how to behave around them is crazy. I would no sooner leave my kids around a dog that they have to know how to behave around than I would leave them around unlocked and loaded guns. I expect kids to be stupid. It is my job to make sure their stupidity doesn't get them killed. That said, if the dogs are on leashes they are probably fine. i fully admit that I error on the side of caution to the point of being neurotic. If the dogs scared me, I would teach my kids to come in the house if they saw them being walked. I am petrified of big dogs and have seen dogs get spooked and take off one their owners before (where they can't be controlled). DEAR MISS TEQUILA, this is to you and only you as an anecdote that goes along with your comment. i realize it is unhelpful to others. (yes- i'm being an ass now) My dog is a 27 pound boston terrier and he's been able to rip the leash right out of my hand and take off (of course, he stops when I yell for him) he's also knocked me on my butt before and pulled me down the stairs when he's gotten excited. And I am not a tiny chica! It's amazing what kind of strength the little beasts have sometimes.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 27, 2013 15:01:44 GMT -5
I want a lemon tree.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 27, 2013 15:06:35 GMT -5
I think we all have biases. I'm afraid of big dogs and make no excuses for my fear. The issue isn't the friendly ones, the issue is the significant harm they can do if you run across one that isn't the friendly, lovely dogs that you all know. Even thyme said that German shepherd (I think that was the type of dog) was scary until it got to know you. Kids are impulsive and so stupid things. That is human nature. To say that these dogs will be great as long as the kids know how to behave around them is crazy. I would no sooner leave my kids around a dog that they have to know how to behave around than I would leave them around unlocked and loaded guns. I expect kids to be stupid. It is my job to make sure their stupidity doesn't get them killed. That said, if the dogs are on leashes they are probably fine. i fully admit that I error on the side of caution to the point of being neurotic. If the dogs scared me, I would teach my kids to come in the house if they saw them being walked. I am petrified of big dogs and have seen dogs get spooked and take off one their owners before (where they can't be controlled). DEAR MISS TEQUILA, this is to you and only you as an anecdote that goes along with your comment. i realize it is unhelpful to others. (yes- i'm being an ass now) My dog is a 27 pound boston terrier and he's been able to rip the leash right out of my hand and take off (of course, he stops when I yell for him) he's also knocked me on my butt before and pulled me down the stairs when he's gotten excited. And I am not a tiny chica! It's amazing what kind of strength the little beasts have sometimes. Then you can understand why those of us that are scared of big dogs that can do some serious damage to a child, would be scared if we saw them being walked. My dog is 14lbs. If it gets loose and bites someone it will cause damage but ultimately, it can be kicked off. That is not the case with 100 lb or more dog. I have no idea what kind of dogs Milee saw. My SIL has golden retrievers and they are sweet dogs . I wouldn't be afraid of a golden retriever if I saw one out because they are not known to be viscous and cause fatalities (not that they can't). If I saw something that looked like a pit bull, Rottweiler, Doberman, etc, I would be scared.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 27, 2013 15:07:45 GMT -5
I just want milee to ship me some if hers. I pay a landscaper to come in a hazmat suit to spray my lawn...I guess that means I shouldn't be growing lemons. Good thing since I live in the northeast!
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 27, 2013 15:20:58 GMT -5
DEAR MISS TEQUILA, this is to you and only you as an anecdote that goes along with your comment. i realize it is unhelpful to others. (yes- i'm being an ass now) My dog is a 27 pound boston terrier and he's been able to rip the leash right out of my hand and take off (of course, he stops when I yell for him) he's also knocked me on my butt before and pulled me down the stairs when he's gotten excited. And I am not a tiny chica! It's amazing what kind of strength the little beasts have sometimes. Then you can understand why those of us that are scared of big dogs that can do some serious damage to a child, would be scared if we saw them being walked. My dog is 14lbs. If it gets loose and bites someone it will cause damage but ultimately, it can be kicked off. That is not the case with 100 lb or more dog. I have no idea what kind of dogs Milee saw. My SIL has golden retrievers and they are sweet dogs . I wouldn't be afraid of a golden retriever if I saw one out because they are not known to be viscous and cause fatalities (not that they can't). If I saw something that looked like a pit bull, Rottweiler, Doberman, etc, I would be scared. Oh I understand the concept of fear of big dogs in general... never said I didn't. Just like a understand the concept of having a fear of flying or heights or clowns. I just don't necessarily think it is completely rational (for lack of a better word) to be afraid of a large dog being walked on leash by their owners. That being said... I'm also afraid of jello. don't want to see it, don't want it near me, get creeped out by it, know it is completely irrational, still don't care.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 27, 2013 15:22:23 GMT -5
I just want milee to ship me some if hers. I pay a landscaper to come in a hazmat suit to spray my lawn...I guess that means I shouldn't be growing lemons. Good thing since I live in the northeast! I live in a condo in chicago... two balconies, no yard. I don't think I can grow lemons. I'd take lemon deliveries though
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 27, 2013 15:23:14 GMT -5
Then you can understand why those of us that are scared of big dogs that can do some serious damage to a child, would be scared if we saw them being walked. My dog is 14lbs. If it gets loose and bites someone it will cause damage but ultimately, it can be kicked off. That is not the case with 100 lb or more dog. I have no idea what kind of dogs Milee saw. My SIL has golden retrievers and they are sweet dogs . I wouldn't be afraid of a golden retriever if I saw one out because they are not known to be viscous and cause fatalities (not that they can't). If I saw something that looked like a pit bull, Rottweiler, Doberman, etc, I would be scared. Oh I understand the concept of fear of big dogs in general... never said I didn't. Just like a understand the concept of having a fear of flying or heights or clowns. I just don't necessarily think it is completely rational (for lack of a better word) to be afraid of a large dog being walked on leash by their owners. That being said... I'm also afraid of jello. don't want to see it, don't want it near me, get creeped out by it, know it is completely irrational, still don't care. So...no Jell-O shots??
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 27, 2013 15:27:15 GMT -5
Oh I understand the concept of fear of big dogs in general... never said I didn't. Just like a understand the concept of having a fear of flying or heights or clowns. I just don't necessarily think it is completely rational (for lack of a better word) to be afraid of a large dog being walked on leash by their owners. That being said... I'm also afraid of jello. don't want to see it, don't want it near me, get creeped out by it, know it is completely irrational, still don't care. So...no Jell-O shots?? I've only done them once in my life. on my 21st birthday... I only know because there is a photo of me doing a jello shot while outside a restroom stall of a bar Another fear- drinks and food in a restroom!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 27, 2013 15:28:28 GMT -5
I've only done them once in my life. on my 21st birthday... I only know because there is a photo of me doing a jello shot while outside a restroom stall of a bar Another fear- drinks and food in a restroom! That's not fear, that's just sanitary!
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 27, 2013 15:32:17 GMT -5
I've only done them once in my life. on my 21st birthday... I only know because there is a photo of me doing a jello shot while outside a restroom stall of a bar Another fear- drinks and food in a restroom! That's not fear, that's just sanitary! I've been known to throw away people's coffee in the ladies RR at work when they leave it by the sink... The thought of them drinking it makes me
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