milee
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Post by milee on Dec 25, 2013 20:08:23 GMT -5
Warning - this is just a vent. I know full well that there is nothing I can do about this and it's not going to change, so I shouldn't waste my time complaining.
That being said... Over the past few weeks, as I'm driving home I've noticed a new couple walking their large dogs. The neighborhood is filled with dogs and many of the owners are friends and walk together but nobody walks with this couple. Odd. Anyway, I drive a large SUV and from a distance didn't really notice anything too off about the dogs, other than noting they look really big. Well, today, after a really nice Christmas, we went for a walk in the neighborhood. This couple must have had the same thought and were out with their dogs. As we walked by, I realized just how freaking huge and a little scary looking these dogs are. None of the dogs appeared aggressive, but the big male dog was very interested in my youngest son and watched DS closely until he was out of sight. Again, no aggression, but just intense focus and unbroken stare at my little guy, like he was assessing how tender and juicy DS might be. I also know that something like 90+% of serious dog attacks are unneutered males and this is not only an unneutered male, but he's big enough that if he wanted to eat my kid, no human on the planet could stop him. No idea what breed these dogs are, but this is what they look like:
www.mindchangingkennel.com/myfiles/files//1_American_Bandog_GUAPO.jpg Sorry, the cut and paste isn't working, but they look like the dog on this page called "Guapo" but they're a different color. They're a silvery color with pretty blue eyes. The male - again - obviously unneutered - is much taller/bigger than the Guapo dog in the picture, over 100 pounds maybe 120 pounds (?) and about hip high on the man - and the two females look like they're about the same size as Guapo - maybe 85 pounds? Usually the man walks the male and the woman walks the two females.
Anyway, I know they have the right to own dogs and the dogs are probably OK and I shouldn't worry about it. But I also know some dogs have a really high prey drive and just keep picturing my little guy riding past on his bicycle, dinging the bell and that big male deciding that my son is prey/a threat/tasty looking. I hope the owners are good, responsible owners and this is a needless worry.
But other than that, Christmas was great.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Dec 25, 2013 20:58:44 GMT -5
Sorry that you are spooked by these dogs. I was deathly afraid of dogs as a child, but have pretty much gotten over my fear. But big dogs still make me very nervous.
But I know from having dogs as an adult that dogs temperments are very much influenced by how they are raised. Someone in our neighborhood raises hunting dogs, he has 5 of them, 3 are kept in a pen. I would be afraid of these if I ever saw them out. I also have friends that have large dogs, 100 pounds plus, and they are as gentle as can be. One is a Rottweiller, who are know for being aggressive, but this one is as gentle as can be.
Hopefully the couple you mention has raised the dogs right and they are gentle dogs.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Dec 25, 2013 20:59:32 GMT -5
I've always found that the big dogs are friendly. The little ones are snappy little bastards. I have never been chased while out on a walk/bike/rollerblade by a big dog. If a big dog comes near me, they just want o play, get apat on the head. The liitle dogs bite.
Except one attorneys pit bill. That dog needed to be put down.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Dec 25, 2013 21:14:24 GMT -5
I agree about the large dogs. I'd rather be dealing with/facing a large dog (usually much more calm & docile) than a small yappy one - that's more likely to nip or snap at the slightest movement or noise.
If the owners are walking them and they're not barking or lunging, your worries about your child becoming their "next meal" are very likely unfounded. Next time you see them if they're out when you are, ask if the dogs are gentle & can be pet - and even have your child pet the "big bear of a dog". It might help relieve some of your concerns. Talk to the people about it - you might be surprised to find out the dogs are really just big furry gentle souls.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 25, 2013 21:20:16 GMT -5
Oh, I'm not afraid of dogs. I like dogs and always had dogs until our oldest son was born. He's fairly allergic so when the dogs we had when DS was born died of old age, we didn't get more. But I like them, even and especially big ones. (I won't bore everybody by telling the story again, but growing up we had a really wonderful Doberman that I loved dearly.) And like some of you have described, when I worked for a vet as a teen the only dog that ever bit me was a dachshund, never one of the big ones.
We tried to say hello to the couple and talk about the dogs, but they don't speak English very well. DH thinks they are Ukranian. Anyway, couldn't really talk to them about the dogs. The couple was a little like the dogs themselves. Not necessarily openly unfriendly, just a fixed, flat stare. Assessing.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 25, 2013 21:57:09 GMT -5
If they are trained as guard dogs worry might be somewhat appropriate, but I'd try to dial down your fears.
Owners with issues can make any animal mean or aggressive whether its a cat, small dog, or big dog. I'm not so sure about the prey drive as you call it in dogs only because I've not heard many stories about dogs owned by people going around killing things except wild dogs like Dingos. Yes there is the occasional story about a rabbit or similar, but most dogs aren't leaving trails of dead animals say like some domestic cats for example.
I get along with most dogs and I generally prefer mid-size to big dogs as they tend to be calmer. My family had friends who owned a big friendly Rottweiler who usually required two people to "walk" him assuming you didn't want to get pulled all over the neighborhood. My sibs and I visited some Saint Bernards that were the size of ponies so the size thing doesn't bother me, but I agree the attitude or gut feel of the encounter might.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Dec 25, 2013 22:01:02 GMT -5
They say that people start to look like their dogs after a while.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 25, 2013 22:30:15 GMT -5
I don't like big dogs, they scare the hell out of me. I don't know the statistics but even if the small dogs bite more, there is no way that small dog will cause as much damange. How many Pitt bulls have killed children versus Pomeranians or other small dogs?
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Dec 25, 2013 22:39:30 GMT -5
Your description and picture makes them sound like a Cane Corso - they are usually a silver color with cropped Pit-like ears.
I'd be careful, but the dogs weren't aggressive, they weren't off-leash, they weren't barking or growling from your description.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Dec 25, 2013 22:46:22 GMT -5
Oh, I'm not afraid of dogs. I like dogs and always had dogs until our oldest son was born. He's fairly allergic so when the dogs we had when DS was born died of old age, we didn't get more. But I like them, even and especially big ones. (I won't bore everybody by telling the story again, but growing up we had a really wonderful Doberman that I loved dearly.) And like some of you have described, when I worked for a vet as a teen the only dog that ever bit me was a dachshund, never one of the big ones.
We tried to say hello to the couple and talk about the dogs, but they don't speak English very well. DH thinks they are Ukranian. Anyway, couldn't really talk to them about the dogs. The couple was a little like the dogs themselves. Not necessarily openly unfriendly, just a fixed, flat stare. Assessing. My DH thinks that all people from over there are like that. Let me know if you want me to translate for you
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ZaireinHD
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Post by ZaireinHD on Dec 25, 2013 23:47:26 GMT -5
so the dogs have not attacked anyone and other people don't walk with these dog owners probably because English is most likely their second language and they are big dogs you're really not afraid of them. now I forgot what the vent / rant is about?
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 25, 2013 23:55:01 GMT -5
so the dogs have not attacked anyone and other people don't walk with these dog owners probably because English is most likely their second language and they are big dogs you're really not afraid of them. now I forgot what the vent / rant is about? Well, without wanting to sound crazy, I'm a little concerned for the safety of my son when he rides his bike around the neighborhood. The big male dog was very focused on my son, weighs twice as much as my son and is big enough that the normal sized man walking him wouldn't be able to stop him if he decided to make a move. He's an unneutered male in a small pack with two females and they all appear to potentially be one of the fighting type breeds (all big factors in those rare, but awful cases where dogs attack and seriously injure or kill someone.) I am unable to determine if the owners have a clue about being responsible dog owners of a strong breed because I can't talk to them. And none of the other couple of dozen dog owners appear to know or be close to them so I can't ask them, either.
So I'm trying to decide if I'm being alarmist here or if it's something to keep an eye on.
And it's a rant because I don't really want to have to deal with this stuff. I bought this home in a nice 'hood so I could let my kids ride their bike to the park without me worrying. Now I'm worried. That's the rant.
And PS - if one of these dogs attacks someone, you'll hear about it on the news. These dogs are huge, strong and based on dog behavior, would form a pretty lethal pack. Waiting to see if they attack someone before I react is not a good plan.
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ZaireinHD
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Post by ZaireinHD on Dec 26, 2013 0:05:56 GMT -5
oh I see! got it! why wait for a dog attack, when you can prevent by watching your son play. but that goes against the entire idea of moving into the neighborhood and progress with your son being able to play without a guardian.
well if dogs are left alone and not teased, shouldn't be a problem suggest to start noticing how the dogs behave when out in the yard, behind the fence, if they try to go under or over the fence to get lose. if the dogs are kept indoors, and how do they get out.
thinking of the New York news horror stories, most shocking home videos, and crime TV shows, violent dog attacks happen when dogs are on their own. but I do understand your point / dilemma to be safe and no need to wait for a dog attack
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Dec 26, 2013 2:50:07 GMT -5
Oh, I'm not afraid of dogs. I like dogs and always had dogs until our oldest son was born. He's fairly allergic so when the dogs we had when DS was born died of old age, we didn't get more. But I like them, even and especially big ones. (I won't bore everybody by telling the story again, but growing up we had a really wonderful Doberman that I loved dearly.) And like some of you have described, when I worked for a vet as a teen the only dog that ever bit me was a dachshund, never one of the big ones.
We tried to say hello to the couple and talk about the dogs, but they don't speak English very well. DH thinks they are Ukranian. Anyway, couldn't really talk to them about the dogs. The couple was a little like the dogs themselves. Not necessarily openly unfriendly, just a fixed, flat stare. Assessing. My DH thinks that all people from over there are like that. Let me know if you want me to translate for you LOL! I was going to say that I'd be more worried about the owners than the dogs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 6:50:49 GMT -5
Just based on my own experience, I would be a little concerned by the focused staring. I had a standard poodle that was very protective of me and my kids and our home. He was well trained and appeared docile when we were out, but I knew his "alert" signs. Standing very still, focused, and staring. If he was off leash (he was always on a leash off my property), and I didn't stop him, he'd take off after whatever he'd spotted. Fortunately he was trained well enough to respond to my commands even when he'd spotted "prey".
Does your son know to never stare back at a dog?
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Dec 26, 2013 7:47:01 GMT -5
I looked at pictures of Cane Corsos, and there a number of blue colored ones with blue eyes. I wouldn't be too enthusiastic about having a group of those things around. I would tell my son not to ride his bike anywhere near the dogs, nor past their house.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 26, 2013 8:11:51 GMT -5
I'm not usually an alarmist, but when it comes to your child go with your instincts.
We have a fenced in back yard. We also have coyotes, foxes, and yes even a wild cougar a few years back. No way in hell was DD ever allowed outside by herself. Was it likely that something was going to happen? No. Was I willing to risk even a small chance? NO.
Sorry, but as other posters have stated, you never hear about a small dog doing serious harm to a child. We've heard in the news more times than we should about large dogs getting away or out of their pens and harming or killing someone.
I'd keep an eye on my kid at all times.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 8:18:38 GMT -5
I don't like big dogs, they scare the hell out of me. I don't know the statistics but even if the small dogs bite more, there is no way that small dog will cause as much damange. How many Pitt bulls have killed children versus Pomeranians or other small dogs? I suggest you do some research to answer your own question - it might surprise you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 8:25:41 GMT -5
so the dogs were out being walked on a leash, made no threatening sounds, didn't lunge, or anything, and you think they're dangerous? you do realize that any dog can be dangerous under the right conditions but since they seem to have very nice leash manners, as long as your son doesn't go into their yard (which is THEIR territory) or tease them over a fence, I think you're overreacting. and quite frankly your 'I moved into this neighborhood so my son could ride his bike outside by himself and now he can't because someone owns a dog that I don't like' is a little elitist.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 26, 2013 8:34:21 GMT -5
.....:::: "Does your son know to never stare back at a dog?" ::::.....
Not sure if we've ever talked about that one, but good point. DS is one of those really soft, sweet, marshmallowy kids, so I'll need to think of a way to talk to him about it without freaking him out. The last thing I want to do is make him unnecessarily afraid of this dog and have him send off strong "fear" signals, but not staring is a good idea.
.....:::: "I would tell my son not to ride his bike anywhere near the dogs, nor past their house." ::::.....
I don't know where they live. We only see them infrequently, but next time, I'll see if I can casually stalk them and follow them home.
.....:::: "I'd keep an eye on my kid at all times." ::::.....
Yeah, that's what I do now and it's a good idea. I'm just complaining because he's starting to want to be a little more independent - ride to the park a couple of hundred feet away or to his friend's house a mile away but still on nonbusy streets - and I was just starting to let him do some of these things. He can use the boost to confidence and it's good for self-esteem to be independent, but this dog thing is putting a wrinkle in that.
.....:::: "Your description and picture makes them sound like a Cane Corso "::::.....
Could be, not sure. They're slightly taller and less barrel shaped than some of the pics, but looks similar to others. Also their heads aren't particularly jowly, just large. On the plus side, they are sleek, glossy and very beautiful, so I'm hoping that means well bred dogs that are well cared for and well behaved.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 26, 2013 8:37:01 GMT -5
I don't like big dogs, they scare the hell out of me. I don't know the statistics but even if the small dogs bite more, there is no way that small dog will cause as much damange. How many Pitt bulls have killed children versus Pomeranians or other small dogs? I suggest you do some research to answer your own question - it might surprise you. I can't post links from my phone. To to dogbite.org. 67% of fatal dog attacks were caused by pittbulls and Rottweilers. I think I have now supported my comment :-)
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 26, 2013 8:42:49 GMT -5
so the dogs were out being walked on a leash, made no threatening sounds, didn't lunge, or anything, and you think they're dangerous? you do realize that any dog can be dangerous under the right conditions but since they seem to have very nice leash manners, as long as your son doesn't go into their yard (which is THEIR territory) or tease them over a fence, I think you're overreacting. and quite frankly your 'I moved into this neighborhood so my son could ride his bike outside by himself and now he can't because someone owns a dog that I don't like' is a little elitist.
As a CPA, you worry about or put controls in place to protect against things that:
1) Are likely to happen 2) Are very rare, but if they were to happen would be devastating.
This is, IMHO, a case of #2. I'm not predicting disaster nor am I implying that the dogs are inherently dangerous and just waiting for a chance to attack. My concern is that it is a big unknown and without being able to communicate with the owners, very difficult to assess the situation, so if the dogs are not well behaved or the owners are not responsible, the potential consequences with dogs this size can be devastating.
It's not unusual for owners to take their dogs off leash in the park a couple of hundred yards away. Again, without being able to communicate with these owners and only seeing them occasionally, I have no way to know if that's a possibility with these dogs.
And yes, it's elitist to move to certain neighborhoods to avoid certain things. No apology for that.
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Dec 26, 2013 8:45:54 GMT -5
These are new neighbours? I would suggest bringing them a welcome package or something. It could be that your judgements made about the dogs and people is completely unwarranted. You may be influenced by your own fear. On the other hand, you should be wary around unfamiliar dogs especially if you have children. Teach your son what to do if approached by a dog.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 26, 2013 8:51:57 GMT -5
Ugh, I wish I hadn't starting doing any research on this. Yuck.
By compiling U.S. and Canadian press accounts between 1982 and 2012, Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, shows the breeds most responsible for serious injury and death.
The combination of large molosser breeds, including pit bulls, rottweilers, presa canarios, cane corsos, mastiffs, dogo argentinos, fila brasieros, and their mixes: 79% of attacks that induce bodily harm 72% of attacks to children 85% of attack to adults 69% of attacks that result in fatalities 77% that result in maiming
www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics.php
Report: U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities January 2006 to December 2008
A 2009 report issued by DogsBite.org shows that 19 dog breeds contributed to 88 deaths in a recent 3-year period. Pit bulls accounted for 59% followed by rottweilers with 14%. Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 59% (52). This is equivalent to a pit bull killing a U.S. citizen every 21 days during this 3-year period. The data also shows that pit bulls commit the vast majority of off-property attacks that result in death. Only 18% (16) of the attacks occurred off owner property, yet pit bulls were responsible for 81% (13).
[That last bit is good news that so few attacks occur off-property. My kids would never go onto someone else's property without permission.]
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 26, 2013 8:54:04 GMT -5
BTW, I don't think these are pit bulls. They are way too big to be pit bulls. From their appearance, I'm guessing that they're one of the "large molosser breeds" mentioned above, but have no idea exactly what they are.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 26, 2013 8:56:27 GMT -5
I don't really get what the big deal is... It is a big dig that has shown zero signs of aggression. So, he was looking at your kid? My dig will stare anyone down if he wants them to pet him. And if they don't after what he deems as "too long" them he barks. If startles a lot of people but that is just how he is. First thing is first, teach your child how to act around animals. It seems like no one teaches children not to stare at dogs, not to try and pet them on the top of the head, etc... Dogs don't attack for no reason unless there is something seriously wrong with them.
And being large or having a prey drive isn't a reason.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Dec 26, 2013 9:00:03 GMT -5
Stop freaking yourself out!!! You know why most of those pit bulls attacked? Their owners were shitty and trained them that way. I have a few friends with pit bulls and they are big babies. It all depends on how they are trained.
No one breed is dangerous yet all breeds can be dangerous!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2013 9:06:50 GMT -5
so I just looked at the dogbite site and of the first 4 stories I read, 2 were of kids who went into their neighbor's yard and were attacked by a dog. of course, if those same kids had broken into someone's home and been shot to death being mistaken for a burgler, everyone would blame the kid. I think including dog attacks/deaths that were provoked does a complete disservice to everyone. so quite frankly, I think their statistics are crap.
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milee
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Post by milee on Dec 26, 2013 9:16:39 GMT -5
I don't really get what the big deal is... It is a big dig that has shown zero signs of aggression. First thing is first, teach your child how to act around animals. It seems like no one teaches children not to stare at dogs, not to try and pet them on the top of the head, etc... Dogs don't attack for no reason unless there is something seriously wrong with them. You're right that there have been no signs of aggression, which is a good thing.
I actually do teach my kids not to approach unknown dogs. We teach them not to be scared, but to be respectful of the dog and his/her space. If they want to pet a dog, they need to ask the owner, wait for permission and until the dog is under control and behaving. Then they need to approach slowly and let the dog sniff their closed hand first. Other than the not staring thing, I think we're teaching reasonable dog approaching etiquette.
So I'm not at all worried about either kid approaching inappropriately, teasing or provoking the dogs. I'm just not sure I have enough information to know if the dogs are under enough control from the owners that I don't need to worry about what happens when my kid rides by on his bike.
And the idea that dogs won't attack unless something is wrong is part of my point. I have no idea if anything is wrong with these dogs, no way to find out, etc. No way to know if these are responsible owners with well trained dogs.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 26, 2013 9:19:26 GMT -5
so I just looked at the dogbite site and of the first 4 stories I read, 2 were of kids who went into their neighbor's yard and were attacked by a dog. of course, if those same kids had broken into someone's home and been shot to death being mistaken for a burgler, everyone would blame the kid. I think including dog attacks/deaths that were provoked does a complete disservice to everyone. so quite frankly, I think their statistics are crap. Yet, if those same two kids broke into a house where there were Pomeranians, odds are they would still be alive. They might have been bitten, but I highly doubt they would have been killed. I can only find one actual death from a Pomeranian and that was of an infant. The bite caused brain swelling and the baby died. I
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