Mom of 13yo on vent fights for 2nd opinion- hate on display

[achelois]

Jan 9, 2014 2:06:28 GMT -5 lynnerself said:

Dolan speaks again (tweets actually)

"Doctors are optimistic that her condition has stabilized and that her health is improving from when she was taken from" Children's Hospital Oakland"

www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Lawyer-Jahi-McMath-gets-feeding-tube-improving-5125917.php

Sorry, Dead people do not improve, no matter how optimistic their doctors are.

I honestly don't get this guy. I don't understand his agenda. I can't believe he really believes the stuff he is saying.

  

I question whether or not he has himself actually inspected the body or is he relying on what he has been told. 

[kilroy]

Jan 8, 2014 16:13:42 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jan 8, 2014 16:08:58 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Wait, paul!  Your son had a UPPP with additional tissue removal as an OUTPATIENT?!?  Really?!?  When was this - and WHERE?!?

Same tonsillectomy as the reported death in the UK article.  Sorry, I wasn't clear on that.  My sister assures me, btw, that the death rate in the US from a routine tonsillectomy is NOWHERE NEAR 1 in 40,000.  She said she'd be shocked if it was 1 in 100,000.  I'm still trying to find the US numbers.

"The UK article" is from a source generally considered only suitable for wrapping fish, and as is so often the case they got the details wrong this time.  Again (and again, and again), the surgery Jahi McMath had was NOT a routine tonsillectomy.  Anyone who continues to use that description is being willfully obtuse at this point.

[Deleted]

i would be very surprised if board certified "doctors" are doing surgery on a dead girl

it makes no sense

and it will tarnish any reputation they had forever.....

she is at some undisclosed location.....with who knows what kind of professionals

this has become a 3 ring circus......

and i for one have zero idea on what the endgame is for the family

based upon what i have read, there is probably very little an autopsy could tell them now because of the time

i dont understand where this is going.....

[achelois]

Jan 9, 2014 11:18:37 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I just read that they successfully surgically implanted breathing and feeding tubes in the girl.

Unless there is something more to this and she is not actually brain dead, this is going from sad to the twisted and bizarre.

I feel comfortable accepting the consensus of six different specialists, the absence of bloodflow to the brain, the flat EEG, the sloughing of the intestinal lining, the inability of the kidneys to concentrate urine, the fixed and dilated pupils and the overall malodor as pointing to actual brain death. 

This is more than sad, twisted and bizarre. I do not have a word for it, though. I am not certain there is one. 

[Tennesseer]

Jan 9, 2014 16:39:32 GMT -5 achelois said:

Jan 9, 2014 11:18:37 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I just read that they successfully surgically implanted breathing and feeding tubes in the girl.

Unless there is something more to this and she is not actually brain dead, this is going from sad to the twisted and bizarre.

I feel comfortable accepting the consensus of six different specialists, the absence of bloodflow to the brain, the flat EEG, the sloughing of the intestinal lining, the inability of the kidneys to concentrate urine, the fixed and dilated pupils and the overall malodor as pointing to actual brain death. 

This is more than sad, twisted and bizarre. I do not have a word for it, though. I am not certain there is one. 

There is. But it is two words: Greedily ghoulish.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 9, 2014 16:57:13 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I'm too far away from it to know to comment too stridently.  It is a nightmare that isn't ending though.

Well the good thing is, the child is completely unaware of this nightmare.

[lynnerself]

A different look at Children's Hospital.
While no one can rule out malpractice, it's nice to see someone stand up for CHO.

www.huffingtonpost.com/todays-mama/theres-a-second-tragedy-in-the-jahi-mcmath-story_b_4568882.html


"The people who work in this hospital are angels and heroes to many, many families like mine. Children's Hospital and Research Center in Oakland distributed 139 million dollars of charity care and benefits in 2012. Seventy-five percent of the pediatricians working at the hospital are on the "Best Doctors in America" list. Lives are literally being saved every day at this hospital."

[thyme4change]

For a family that claims they want privacy - they sure are giving the public enough updates via their lawyer.  

[thyme4change]

Jan 9, 2014 18:11:09 GMT -5 lynnerself said:

A different look at Children's Hospital.
While no one can rule out malpractice, it's nice to see someone stand up for CHO.

www.huffingtonpost.com/todays-mama/theres-a-second-tragedy-in-the-jahi-mcmath-story_b_4568882.html


"The people who work in this hospital are angels and heroes to many, many families like mine. Children's Hospital and Research Center in Oakland distributed 139 million dollars of charity care and benefits in 2012. Seventy-five percent of the pediatricians working at the hospital are on the "Best Doctors in America" list. Lives are literally being saved every day at this hospital."

Well, that article made me cry.  

[Sharon]

I wonder why the judge didn't appoint a guardian to oversee what the family was doing or order counseling for the family.

[thyme4change]

Jan 9, 2014 21:11:23 GMT -5 Sharon said:

I wonder why the judge didn't appoint a guardian to oversee what the family was doing or order counseling for the family.

I guess at some point you just let people live their own lives and make their own mistakes.  If this family was distrustful of authority figures, court appointed counseling would be useless and a guardian would just give them someone else to blame and sue.

[lynnerself]

Jan 9, 2014 21:11:23 GMT -5 Sharon said:

I wonder why the judge didn't appoint a guardian to oversee what the family was doing or order counseling for the family.

Because you can't appoint a guardian to a dead person.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 10, 2014 11:14:17 GMT -5 lynnerself said:

Jan 9, 2014 21:11:23 GMT -5 Sharon said:

I wonder why the judge didn't appoint a guardian to oversee what the family was doing or order counseling for the family.

Because you can't appoint a guardian to a dead person.

BINGO!

[lynnerself]

OMG.
I can't believe the school would take this approach.

Though a death certificate has been issued for Jahi McMath, many of the 13-year-old Oakland girl’s classmates still believe the “quiet leader” who laughed at jokes that weren't funny will one day return to school — if they just pray hard enough.

“The school told us that she’s not officially dead yet,” said Dymond Allen, one of Jahi's friends


www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Jahi-McMath-Brain-Death-Tonsillectomy-EC-Reems-Academy-Friends-Believe-Alive-239629891.html

I don't think it is a religious based school either.

[justme]

Shame on that school

[Tennesseer]

The school is a K-8h grade.  Give the kids time to learn the hard reality of life.  It will come soon enough for them.  Nothing wrong with hope even though we who believe in medical science know otherwise.

[justme]

The video on the link said Jahi's 20 year old sister graduate from there so I thought it went through 12th grade.

Though I'm sure I'm colored with my lens of having lost all my grandparents and uncle by the time I was in 8th grade, death was not a foreign concept to me at the time.

[lynnerself]

Jan 10, 2014 18:18:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The school is a K-8h grade.  Give the kids time to learn the hard reality of life.  It will come soon enough for them.  Nothing wrong with hope even though we who believe in medical science know otherwise.

The thing is she is "officially dead." She has a death certificate.

And speaking of hope, an interesting blog

www.huffingtonpost.com/david-casarett-md/jahi-mcmath-and-the-dange_b_4574303.html 

Too long to quote, but interesting to read.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 10, 2014 18:35:38 GMT -5 lynnerself said:

Jan 10, 2014 18:18:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The school is a K-8h grade.  Give the kids time to learn the hard reality of life.  It will come soon enough for them.  Nothing wrong with hope even though we who believe in medical science know otherwise.

The thing is she is "officially dead." She has a death certificate.

And speaking of hope, an interesting blog

www.huffingtonpost.com/david-casarett-md/jahi-mcmath-and-the-dange_b_4574303.html 

Too long to quote, but interesting to read.

I know.  I know.  (The death certificate).  

It Ìs probably even harder for the adults in the school to explain to these young minds the macabre medical drama going on.  That might scare the crap out of them.

[lynnerself]

"The academy's chief operating officer Lisa Blair said she has tried to honor Jahi's family's wishes by telling students that their classmate may still be alive, even though doctors say she is legally and clinically dead"


I admit it would be difficult for the school to criticize the parents' decisions if they have been a part of this school for awhile.
But I think, even at this age a more realistic approach could be taken than letting children believe if they pray hard enough Jahi will return to school.

[Tennesseer]

Well it will be a good lesson for the kids to learn their prayers are not always answered.

[Opti]

This has become an unfortunate circus and I admit I have been
following it in part because I wonder how and when the family
will admit God already acted and a miracle will not happen.



Its unfortunate politics that helped the school administrator choose
her course of action which will likely have the negative consequence
of having the children not believe in parents and their teachers when
eventually the family gives up this gross farce. But who knows, perhaps
they'll sell some other lie and people will choose to believe their prayers
weren't answered instead of they couldn't be answered in the way they wanted.



There are some great comments to some of the articles. Some of my favorites
include renaming dead people as life challenged. One posited perhaps he
should just add water to a loved one's ashes and see if he could get SS
benefits on behalf of the life-challenged reconstituited loved one. Denial is
powerful. They could hang on for years, but given how public they keep
making it, it seems like it should resolve soon. Someone though knows
something about marketing. The staff in students in purple t-shirts is both
genius and scary sad.

[thyme4change]

Jan 11, 2014 4:23:55 GMT -5 Opti said:

This has become an unfortunate circus and I admit I have been
following it in part because I wonder how and when the family
will admit God already acted and a miracle will not happen.

Jahi's heart will stop beating soon.  They can't keep this going on forever.

As for the school - what are they going to do - call the woman stupid in front of all of Jahi's schoolmates?  You would have to criticize the family in order to tell the truth here.  The school is really in a no-win situation.  

[Tennesseer]

Jan 10, 2014 18:27:23 GMT -5 justme said:

The video on the link said Jahi's 20 year old sister graduate from there so I thought it went through 12th grade.

Though I'm sure I'm colored with my lens of having lost all my grandparents and uncle by the time I was in 8th grade, death was not a foreign concept to me at the time.

Here ìs a link to the school's website and the grades of the school.  It may simply be the older sister attended the academy, six or seven years ago.  The academy hss been in operation for eleven years.

Yes.  Young people have been exposed to the deaths of older family members, but the death of a classmate is 'different', as the classmate is the same age as them.

E.C. Reems Academy

[billisonboard]

My step-granddaughter "graduated" from the eighth grade last year with the school doing a ceremony and her mom throwing a party.  I created a little ripple in the family when I refused to attend either or treat it any differently than when she "graduated" from the seventh grade.  I told her that when she graduates from high school (something her mother did not do), I will celebrate with her then.

[Miss Tequila]

Jan 11, 2014 11:45:17 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

My step-granddaughter "graduated" from the eighth grade last year with the school doing a ceremony and her mom throwing a party.  I created a little ripple in the family when I refused to attend either or treat it any differently than when she "graduated" from the seventh grade.  I told her that when she graduates from high school (something her mother did not do), I will celebrate with her then.

That was mean. What is the harm in attending a party for one of your grandchildren?

[billisonboard]

Jan 11, 2014 12:09:04 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Jan 11, 2014 11:45:17 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

My step-granddaughter "graduated" from the eighth grade last year with the school doing a ceremony and her mom throwing a party.  I created a little ripple in the family when I refused to attend either or treat it any differently than when she "graduated" from the seventh grade.  I told her that when she graduates from high school (something her mother did not do), I will celebrate with her then.

That was mean. What is the harm in attending a party for one of your grandchildren?

Yes, very mean. But not even close to as mean as I will be if she follows her grandfather's and mother's path and drops out of high school her freshman year.

The harm is in giving significance to something that is no longer significant. (There was a day when an elementary education was adequate and worthy of celebrating.) I pointed out to her that there was no ceremony nor party thrown for her two sisters who finished the sixth and third grades. I sent an unambiguous message that her finishing her eighth grade year was simply just one more small step in a twelve year journey. I also made it clear that our high school graduation celebration would be nothing compared to the one for graduating from a post high school program.

[Miss Tequila]

Jan 11, 2014 15:44:36 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jan 11, 2014 12:09:04 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

That was mean. What is the harm in attending a party for one of your grandchildren?

Yes, very mean. But not even close to as mean as I will be if she follows her grandfather's and mother's path and drops out of high school her freshman year.

The harm is in giving significance to something that is no longer significant. (There was a day when an elementary education was adequate and worthy of celebrating.) I pointed out to her that there was no ceremony nor party thrown for her two sisters who finished the sixth and third grades. I sent an unambiguous message that her finishing her eighth grade year was simply just one more small step in a twelve year journey. I also made it clear that our high school graduation celebration would be nothing compared to the one for graduating from a post high school program.

I think you are making too big of a deal out of this. It is common for the kids to "graduate" from middle school and have a celebration. I get what you are saying but I think there are better ways that coming across as a crotchety old guy.

[Opti]

Jahi's heart will stop beating soon. They can't keep this going on forever.

Forever, no. Soon, probably not. Right now the dead woman in Texas
has been kept on machines for about 6 weeks which is longer than Jahi
has been on machines. I'm not sure how far Texas is going to push it,
but potentially it could be anywhere up to about 25 weeks if FT is roughly
39 weeks. Unless the fetal heartbeat gives out I expect they are trying for
at least 6 to 7 months in the womb if not longer.

My small bit of research turned up no one really knows how long a body
could potentially be kept on machines without any brain stem or higher brain
functions. It is unknown. Both this, Jahi McMath, and the Texas case are
going to push the boundaries of what we know.

I'd love for reason to prevail, but I anticipate a race to push the limits. 
If Texas pulls off a minimum of 12 to 15 weeks total I expect Jahi's family
 won't stop at less.

[zibazinski]

Yup, I agree. I realize that we make a huge deal out of every stinking thing kids do nowadays and that sets them up for bad feelings when the world does not revolve around them just because they breathe but it's the parents choice to raise a butthole or not. So go along with it. Yes, I get to listen to DF ask where did he and his ex go wrong in raising their kids and, yes, I'm glad my kids don't have kids, so I don't have to feel that burden on me, but its just a party and your family was involved. Just go. today I am going over to the house from hell and visit with the relatives from hell. Why? Because its important to DF, who funnily enough doesn't want to go either. Hates their poorly behaved dogs and dirty house and although he's a shoes off man and I'm a shoes on woman, can't understand the parents attitude when their dogs damage the floors way more than people's feet!! Relationships are a funny thing.