AZ cop had to resign after finding out she wasn't a citizen

[AGB]

Dec 25, 2013 7:56:35 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Dec 23, 2013 16:48:44 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

They are not the same at all.  They both attack mens rea, one involves mistake of fact (Documents were valid), the other does not.  And you should note that the kid was found guilty of a crime- so it did not work, it only worked to convince the judge the kid was salvageable.  You also have to take into account various state laws that do not require mens rea. i.e. strict liability- as in DUI and subsequent vehicular homicide. 

Mistake of fact would result in not guilty.  

I thought the womans documents were invalid and she was an illegal alien that was mislead by her mother that she was legal.

I think that's what evt was saying, the mistake of fact was that the documents were valid, when they were not.

There is this though. From the OP:
"She did not really find out until this summer ... that she was an illegal alien through, I believe, a confrontation with her mother," Graves told the AP."

And this from another article:
"He said Figueroa's status was discovered when the State Department processed a passport application submitted by her brother, who is serving in the U.S. military.
[...]
Graves said the DPS was informed of Figueroa's status on Aug. 22 and she was placed on administrative leave with pay Sept. 4.

"It was pretty clear as it went up the chain (of command) that she would be terminated," he said."

She learned of her status over the summer from her mother, her employer found out when a passport was processed for her brother. Doesn't sound like she was the one to notify her employer. And three months of admin leave with pay before she resigned, after she knew the facts.

I do hope things work out for her and her brother, and that they will be approved for citizenship.

[Deleted]

Dec 25, 2013 11:05:16 GMT -5 AGB said:

Dec 25, 2013 7:56:35 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

I thought the womans documents were invalid and she was an illegal alien that was mislead by her mother that she was legal.

I think that's what evt was saying, the mistake of fact was that the documents were valid, when they were not.

There is this though. From the OP:
"She did not really find out until this summer ... that she was an illegal alien through, I believe, a confrontation with her mother," Graves told the AP."

And this from another article:
"He said Figueroa's status was discovered when the State Department processed a passport application submitted by her brother, who is serving in the U.S. military.
[...]
Graves said the DPS was informed of Figueroa's status on Aug. 22 and she was placed on administrative leave with pay Sept. 4.

"It was pretty clear as it went up the chain (of command) that she would be terminated," he said."

She learned of her status over the summer from her mother, her employer found out when a passport was processed for her brother. Doesn't sound like she was the one to notify her employer. And three months of admin leave with pay before she resigned, after she knew the facts.

I do hope things work out for her and her brother, and that they will be approved for citizenship.

Thanks, sometimes evt and I don't seem to communicate our ideas to each other very well.

[Deleted]

Dec 20, 2013 11:47:42 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 20, 2013 11:24:27 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

This post made me think of Veteran_Lender from good old MSN market talk. It also made me think of the term "liberal moderation".

You might want to read my Reply #35, the EVT's Reply #6, @jma23.  That should clarify things for you.  Further discussion of moderation, liberal or otherwise, will be moved off this forum. You may refer to our CoC, which will give you the reason for that move.

mmhmm, Administrator

After rereading, no issue to me on how you interpret. Post deleted.

[DVM gone riding]

Dec 12, 2013 3:37:23 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Dec 12, 2013 2:22:33 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

You can't be serious.

Forget willful blindness to non-citizenship for a moment. Give me just one other example of an adult "kid" breaking a law where your reaction would be "Don't prosecute this woman. It isn't fair. Her parents lied to her."

I am 100% serious.  There is no similar situation.

So what should we do in this case? 

Willful blindness is some shit you came up with and not facts in this case.  The story is a little muddled- but facts are there are a couple kids that decided to serve this country- police and military.  Good enough for citizenship for me if they did not know any different.  Love to hear how many of you angry right wing assholes would put your life on the line- for anyone at all.  I bet all in on none of you. 

I consider myself fairly right wing a bit middle but solid rep and I agree with you. I think children raised nearly exclusively in the US told they are citizens and willing to serve in the military or similar with no history of drugs or gang involvement should be given citizenship AND I think children illegally born in the US FOR the SOLE purpose of trying to use them as anchor babies and then taken back to their real countries and raised there should NOT be eligible for citizenship when they turn 18. I think both these loopholes should be fixed at the same time the parents of these "adult" children should be exported.

[Opti]

"I think that's what evt was saying, the mistake of fact was that the documents were valid, when they were not. "


Strictly speaking we don't know some important facts on this story
because the media didn't report on it and people have gotten so used
to putting in missing information the assumptions start being truth to some.

1) The documents may have been legal and official, i.e. her birth certificate,
but based on false information or prior documents. This was not reported
on or discussed in the media to my knowledge. They may have been
excellent forgeries. Also not addressed by reporters.

2) It was discovered during the Passport process for her brother. We have
not been told what that process was so many have conjectured including me.
Bottom line, we've not been told anything except the starting point.



The article never said her brother was denied the passport and was found
to be illegal as well. Based on that and I think something I read, I believe
he was actually born in the US, so the issue is with the parents and his sis.
I conjectured the process found that the parents were not US citizens
or naturalized and therefore the timing of when the sister was born was
followed up on based on when the parents moved here. But that's my
assumption. Have no idea how accurate or inaccurate it is.

[AGB]

Dec 28, 2013 2:17:35 GMT -5 Opti said:

"I think that's what evt was saying, the mistake of fact was that the documents were valid, when they were not. "


Strictly speaking we don't know some important facts on this story
because the media didn't report on it and people have gotten so used
to putting in missing information the assumptions start being truth to some.

1) The documents may have been legal and official, i.e. her birth certificate,
but based on false information or prior documents. This was not reported
on or discussed in the media to my knowledge. They may have been
excellent forgeries. Also not addressed by reporters.

2) It was discovered during the Passport process for her brother. We have
not been told what that process was so many have conjectured including me.
Bottom line, we've not been told anything except the starting point.



The article never said her brother was denied the passport and was found
to be illegal as well. Based on that and I think something I read, I believe
he was actually born in the US, so the issue is with the parents and his sis.
I conjectured the process found that the parents were not US citizens
or naturalized and therefore the timing of when the sister was born was
followed up on based on when the parents moved here. But that's my
assumption. Have no idea how accurate or inaccurate it is.

"Carmen Figueroa was hired in 2003 and had been promoted to being a DPS spokesperson in Tucson. Prior to her current job, she had worked at the Federal Bureau of Prisons. The possibility that she was not a legal resident arose when her brother attempted to go to work for the US Air Force. It was then that a red flag was raised with the State Department and the word got back to Arizona.

According to the Arizona DPS, it seems that Figueroa and her brother may have both been told that they were born in the United States, but in fact had been brought into the US from Mexico at a very young age.

"She had an exemplary work record as an officer," said DPS spokesperson Bart Graves. "She was brought up, along with her brother, always believing what their mother told them, that they were both American citizens."

Graves noted that all documentation received by the department seemed authentic, including a delayed birth certificate from Texas and a graduation diploma from California. He also said that everything the department had checked on Figueroa had "checked out." " link


Sounds like the parents came here with both children and obtained delayed birth certificates for them. Things went well for decades, the children lived the lives of US citizens, attended school, obtained other legal documents, became productive members of society. The brother enlists and applies for a passport, where the delayed birth certificate is more closely investigated and red flagged as being fraudulently obtained. This in turn raises the same red flags about Ms. Figueroa's birth certificate and leads to the discovery that both are in fact here illegally.