As the new saying goes: Oh SNAP!

[shelby]

"The ex-BF's mother or mother-in-law suggested he apply for SSI based on his older daughter's speech/language/learning issues. My reaction was not appreciated. I saw it as an insult to her actually. She does have learning issues but like the boy as portrayed in The Blind Side, if you read the material to her or explain something to her, she picks right up on it and does not forget it. She is smart as a whip but just needs to be taught differently than most children. And to top it off, she wants to learn things, talked about going to college, and has a dream to become a vet or at least a job where she can work with animals. "

I agree my son had free early childhood education since he was diagnosed on the autism spectrum. I think that part is very important as it helped him open up a little earlier, I feel he could have stayed in his own world if he wasn't engaged early enough. But if someone suggested he should be on SSI I would be pretty offended honestly, he has Asperger's so highly functioning. They really do want to throw around the disability label on kids way too often IMO.

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 19, 2013 12:59:04 GMT -5 michelyn8 said:

Dec 19, 2013 12:27:22 GMT -5 The Captain said:

A little late but for those who think the concern about the increase in the number of poor children receiving SSI is a "myth"

www.disabilityscoop.com/2011/10/28/congress-childrens-ssi/

The GAO has raised concerns about it.  


Critics, however, worry that the program has morphed into an alternative welfare system for children with hard-to-measure behavioral, mental, and learning disabilities and is vulnerable to abuse when the nation can least afford it.

The report raised questions about the sharp increase in children receiving benefits for speech and language delay, as early as their toddler years. Investigators said some speech specialists they consulted were surprised by this growth and wondered whether it had become a “provisional diagnosis for very young children’’ when something is concerning about the child but nobody can pinpoint the reason.

- See more at: www.boston.com/lifestyle/health/articles/2012/05/24/childrens_disability_program_fails_to_do_timely_eligibility_reviews_gao_says_in_draft_report/?page=2#sthash.qgblNgjz.dpuf

The ex-BF's mother or mother-in-law suggested he apply for SSI based on his older daughter's speech/language/learning issues.  My reaction was not appreciated.  I saw it as an insult to her actually.  She does have learning issues but like the boy as portrayed in The Blind Side, if you read the material to her or explain something to her, she picks right up on it and does not forget it. She is smart as a whip but just needs to be taught differently than most children. And to top it off, she wants to learn things, talked about going to college, and has a dream to become a vet or at least a job where she can work with animals. 

There are so many truly disabled people those funds could help, why waste them one someone who is perfectly capable of becoming a productive member of society but needs a slightly altered route?

I have a special needs child. As an adult, she will never live on her own. I dont' understand why that means I should be able to quit my job and let the taxpayers support us. Instead, I am building as many assets as I can so that I can leave enough in trust for her that she will be supported.  Obviously I have no idea if I will succeed in leaving what she will truly need but I am doing by best.

I remember when I rented apartments locally I had a woman stop by who had a boy that was very hyper.  I have no doubt that he had ADHD but beyond that, he seemed normal.  She wanted to rent my apartment and asked if I took Section 8 (I didn't ) because she couldn't work because she had a disabled child.  Umm...I also have a disabled child (and mcuh more disabled than ADHD) but I manage to work full time....

[The Captain]

Dec 19, 2013 13:50:22 GMT -5 michelyn8 said:

Dec 19, 2013 13:33:12 GMT -5 The Captain said:

I'd be interested in seeing that also.  It seems that I meet more and more people who are some type of disability but are capable of working at some kind of job at least part-time.

Back to the OP - did anyone else catch that the lady in this article was working two jobs at one time but quit because the combined income was to high for further assistance but too low to cover her expenses?  Seems to me that despite her bad choices, she did make an effort at one time but just gave up because of the "penalty" of losing all benefits when she did try to improve things.  And while I don't condone the 6 kids by 5 different men, I think she deserves a little credit for staying off drugs, keeping her kids off drugs (so far) and her willingness to help family - although I also think some of her "family" is taking advantage of her good heart which is making her situation worse (ie: sister dumping her own toddlers on her to care for).

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this.  Have we set our expectations so low that we think the ability to stay off drugs is to be applauded?

As far as a cliff, as opposed to a gradual reduction in benefits as income increases, that IMHO is the biggest failure in how the current system is set up.

[Deleted]

I think SSI should be available for kids IF their condition warrents treatments and interventions that are not already covered by the state and would be a hardship for the family to provide, and are used got those purposes. 

Daughter was sent home with papers for SSI due to her cleft. I never filled them out. 

Again... Captain, it's nice to know what you expect people to do... Now how are you going to make them? And what about the kids when they don't? Just saying you want it to be a certain way, does not make it so...

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 19, 2013 15:06:27 GMT -5 oped said:

I think SSI should be available for kids IF their condition warrents treatments and interventions that are not already covered by the state and would be a hardship for the family to provide, and are used got those purposes. 

Daughter was sent home with papers for SSI due to her cleft. I never filled them out. 

Again... Captain, it's nice to know what you expect people to do... Now how are you going to make them? And what about the kids when they don't? Just saying you want it to be a certain way, does not make it so...

Why would a cleft qualify her for SSI?  I just don't understand our system.  My oldest was born with one non-functioning kidney...should she have qualified for SSI? 

[Deleted]

I would assume that, depending on severity,  a child might need more therapies, etc. I know I took off an extra month, 3 total because she was so hard to feed. I could afford to, but if I didn't have a sitter willing to take on the challenge at that point, I would not have been able to take off more time unpaid. We had good insurance, covered the clinic, surgery, etc. I'm not sure if that would be the same for all? Even though she has a slit still, it causes her no problems, others have needed years of extensive speech therapy...  although we are over 7k worth of ortho at this point. We afford that too, but I'd hate for a child who needed it not to be able to...

Etc...

[The Captain]

Dec 19, 2013 15:06:27 GMT -5 oped said:

I think SSI should be available for kids IF their condition warrents treatments and interventions that are not already covered by the state and would be a hardship for the family to provide, and are used got those purposes. 

Daughter was sent home with papers for SSI due to her cleft. I never filled them out. 

Again... Captain, it's nice to know what you expect people to do... Now how are you going to make them? And what about the kids when they don't? Just saying you want it to be a certain way, does not make it so...

What I expect people to do is completely irrelevant as long as they don't expect me to support their choices.  Do you see the problem here?

It's nice to know you expect everyone else to support those who deliberately make repeated poor choices, then teach their children how to do the same.

What do you suggest is going to happen when we have more elderly, disabled, and people unable to figure out how to support themselves then those who are willing to have increasing amounts of their assets confiscated?

BTW exactly how much time have YOU spent volunteering (and witnessing first hand) how this system creates long term dependence?  I'm curious because I used to think more like you until I saw first hand how skilled people were at using the system.  How do you remain so optimistic this will actually improve things in the long run?  Or do you not think that is the case, if so why keep doing it?

I truly think if we reduced the incentives and made life harder, people would think twice about having more kids then they can support.  Or do you honestly think these people are no better than animals incapable of rational thought?

I like to think people are capable of better, and if driven enough, are entirely capable of figuring out how to take care of themselves.

[The Captain]

Dec 19, 2013 15:17:15 GMT -5 oped said:

I would assume that, depending on severity,  a child might need more therapies, etc. I know I took off an extra month, 3 total because she was so hard to feed. I could afford to, but if I didn't have a sitter willing to take on the challenge at that point, I would not have been able to take off more time unpaid. We had good insurance, covered the clinic, surgery, etc. I'm not sure if that would be the same for all? Even though she has a slit still, it causes her no problems, others have needed years of extensive speech therapy...  although we are over 7k worth of ortho at this point. We afford that too, but I'd hate for a child who needed it not to be able to...

Etc...

There are children right now who need therapies whom are not getting it.

There are veterans right now who need physical and mental therapies whom are not getting it.

Resources are finite, as long as we enable those who can care for themselves to makes choices not to and deliberately increase their dependence on "the system" other will suffer.

I know whom I'd like the resources to go to, but to each their own.

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2013 15:40:18 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Dec 19, 2013 15:17:15 GMT -5 oped said:

I would assume that, depending on severity,  a child might need more therapies, etc. I know I took off an extra month, 3 total because she was so hard to feed. I could afford to, but if I didn't have a sitter willing to take on the challenge at that point, I would not have been able to take off more time unpaid. We had good insurance, covered the clinic, surgery, etc. I'm not sure if that would be the same for all? Even though she has a slit still, it causes her no problems, others have needed years of extensive speech therapy...  although we are over 7k worth of ortho at this point. We afford that too, but I'd hate for a child who needed it not to be able to...

Etc...

There are children right now who need therapies whom are not getting it.

There are veterans right now who need physical and mental therapies whom are not getting it.

Resources are finite, as long as we enable those who can care for themselves to makes choices not to and deliberately increase their dependence on "the system" other will suffer.

I know whom I'd like the resources to go to, but to each their own.

WTF is that supposed to mean? To each his own? What 'own' are you ascribing me to? 

[djAdvocate]

Dec 19, 2013 15:40:18 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Dec 19, 2013 15:17:15 GMT -5 oped said:

I would assume that, depending on severity,  a child might need more therapies, etc. I know I took off an extra month, 3 total because she was so hard to feed. I could afford to, but if I didn't have a sitter willing to take on the challenge at that point, I would not have been able to take off more time unpaid. We had good insurance, covered the clinic, surgery, etc. I'm not sure if that would be the same for all? Even though she has a slit still, it causes her no problems, others have needed years of extensive speech therapy...  although we are over 7k worth of ortho at this point. We afford that too, but I'd hate for a child who needed it not to be able to...

Etc...

There are children right now who need therapies whom are not getting it.

There are veterans right now who need physical and mental therapies whom are not getting it.

Resources are finite, .

so are illness and disease.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 19, 2013 14:17:30 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Dec 18, 2013 21:57:00 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

such a waste!@

art-bin.com/art/omodest.html

You are aware of the historical context and the reason for Swift writing this piece? 

of course.  i know a lot about this piece.  ie, he didn't use his name when he wrote it.

Then I'm sure you can appreciate the true irony of you bringing that paper into this discussion.

www.victorianweb.org/previctorian/swift/proposal1.html

of course.  i am all about the sick humor, bro.

[EVT1]

Dec 19, 2013 15:09:01 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 19, 2013 15:06:27 GMT -5 oped said:

I think SSI should be available for kids IF their condition warrents treatments and interventions that are not already covered by the state and would be a hardship for the family to provide, and are used got those purposes. 

Daughter was sent home with papers for SSI due to her cleft. I never filled them out. 

Again... Captain, it's nice to know what you expect people to do... Now how are you going to make them? And what about the kids when they don't? Just saying you want it to be a certain way, does not make it so...

Why would a cleft qualify her for SSI?  I just don't understand our system.  My oldest was born with one non-functioning kidney...should she have qualified for SSI? 

SSI for children only requires they have a mental or physical condition that severely limits their activities and is expected to last more than a year.  Severely being the key word- and it is complicated.

Not easy to qualify for disability for an adult, children may have a lower threshold but is still going to require plenty of medical evidence.  A cleft or a bad kidney would be determined on how severe the impairment is- not the condition itself.

[mmhmm]

Dec 19, 2013 12:23:52 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Dec 18, 2013 22:09:49 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Right. I have attended many gestating child showers.

Politics.  It infects everything.  If the term "baby" is used, some "pro-choice" people's foundation can be shaken by that.  They're VERY insecure in their position because the foundation of their position is quite flimsy. 

Bull hockey.  I'm quite secure in my position, paul.  Most people I know who are pro-choice are also quite secure in their positions.  That's because we understand basic biology and are comfortable with it.  Our positions are secure and backed by our knowledge.  None of us need you to speak for us.

[cereb]

Some of you folks are too funny. Find a woman and her family that represent every stereotypical  welfare recipient, write an article about her and watch people lose their minds over it.

Suckers.

[cereb]

Dec 19, 2013 12:23:52 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Dec 18, 2013 22:09:49 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Right. I have attended many gestating child showers.

Politics.  It infects everything.  If the term "baby" is used, some "pro-choice" people's foundation can be shaken by that.  They're VERY insecure in their position because the foundation of their position is quite flimsy. 

You don't speak for me, but I can tell you that I don't find your statements to be in the least concerning.

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2013 18:49:58 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 19, 2013 12:23:52 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Bull hockey.  I'm quite secure in my position, paul.  Most people I know who are pro-choice are also quite secure in their positions.  That's because we understand basic biology and are comfortable with it.  Our positions are secure and backed by our knowledge.  None of us need you to speak for us.

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 19, 2013 18:38:30 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Dec 19, 2013 15:09:01 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Why would a cleft qualify her for SSI?  I just don't understand our system.  My oldest was born with one non-functioning kidney...should she have qualified for SSI? 

SSI for children only requires they have a mental or physical condition that severely limits their activities and is expected to last more than a year.  Severely being the key word- and it is complicated.

Not easy to qualify for disability for an adult, children may have a lower threshold but is still going to require plenty of medical evidence.  A cleft or a bad kidney would be determined on how severe the impairment is- not the condition itself.

My youngest is mentally retarded. I don't get SSI for her (that isn't a complaint.....just a statement).

[cereb]

Dec 19, 2013 19:24:57 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 19, 2013 18:38:30 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

SSI for children only requires they have a mental or physical condition that severely limits their activities and is expected to last more than a year.  Severely being the key word- and it is complicated.

Not easy to qualify for disability for an adult, children may have a lower threshold but is still going to require plenty of medical evidence.  A cleft or a bad kidney would be determined on how severe the impairment is- not the condition itself.

My youngest is mentally retarded. I don't get SSI for her (that isn't a complaint.....just a statement).

You have to meet certain income criteria for your child to be eligible for SSI benefits. The child does not automatically qualify because of a qualifying disability.

[mmhmm]

Dec 19, 2013 19:24:57 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 19, 2013 18:38:30 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

SSI for children only requires they have a mental or physical condition that severely limits their activities and is expected to last more than a year.  Severely being the key word- and it is complicated.

Not easy to qualify for disability for an adult, children may have a lower threshold but is still going to require plenty of medical evidence.  A cleft or a bad kidney would be determined on how severe the impairment is- not the condition itself.

My youngest is mentally retarded. I don't get SSI for her (that isn't a complaint.....just a statement).

Not everyone who applies is qualified, either.  Oped was given the documentation with which to apply for her child.  She didn't apply.  Had she applied, there's certainly no guarantee her child would have qualified.

[Opti]

"I would really like everyone feeling sorry for the permanent food stamp users to take a day trip to any large supermarket in a large northern city on the fifth of the month and observe buying patterns of the food stamp users.

Do not go before 2 pm. They do not get out and about before then.
"

Why the 5th? I think around here cards are loaded on the 1st. I avoid
crowds, rarely buy more than what will fit in a small cart or basket
so I miss anyone who buys a cartful of food by design. I'm the person
on the 7, 10, or 12 items or less line. I'm pretty sure I don't want to
waste my time seeking out lines I avoid like the plague just to see
if I can catch EBT users who spend it all at once. And except for the
ShopRite, I'm not sure how convenient any of my preferred grocery stores
are to people who don't own cars or need public transportation.


Perhaps some of the EBT watchers can start creating videos on their
phone and posting them on Youtube and then here. I'm going to stick
to my crowd avoidance. I still have bad memories of the time I made the
mistake to go shopping at the Mall on a Sunday. <Shudder>

[Tennesseer]

Dec 19, 2013 20:34:13 GMT -5 Opti said:

"I would really like everyone feeling sorry for the permanent food stamp users to take a day trip to any large supermarket in a large northern city on the fifth of the month and observe buying patterns of the food stamp users.

Do not go before 2 pm. They do not get out and about before then.
"

Why the 5th? I think around here cards are loaded on the 1st. I avoid
crowds, rarely buy more than what will fit in a small cart or basket
so I miss anyone who buys a cartful of food by design. I'm the person
on the 7, 10, or 12 items or less line. I'm pretty sure I don't want to
waste my time seeking out lines I avoid like the plague just to see
if I can catch EBT users who spend it all at once. And except for the
ShopRite, I'm not sure how convenient any of my preferred grocery stores
are to people who don't own cars or need public transportation.


Perhaps some of the EBT watchers can start creating videos on their
phone and posting them on Youtube and then here. I'm going to stick
to my crowd avoidance. I still have bad memories of the time I made the
mistake to go shopping at the Mall on a Sunday. <Shudder>

I don't look nor care what others are buying.  Once their money is gone, it is gone.

If someone wishes to be their store's Gladys Kravitz, have at it.

[cereb]

"I would really like everyone feeling sorry for the permanent food stamp users to take a day trip to any large supermarket in a large northern city on the fifth of the month and observe buying patterns of the food stamp users.

Do not go before 2 pm. They do not get out and about before then."




How odd. When I go to the grocery store, I choose my items, put them in my cart, get in line, pay for my stuff and leave. I just don't consider it a good use of my time to check out other peoples purchases and try to get close enough to them to see if they are paying with an EBT card. Maybe it's just me, but I think it's pretty much none of my fucking business.

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 19, 2013 19:29:09 GMT -5 cereb said:

Dec 19, 2013 19:24:57 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

My youngest is mentally retarded. I don't get SSI for her (that isn't a complaint.....just a statement).

You have to meet certain income criteria for your child to be eligible for SSI benefits. The child does not automatically qualify because of a qualifying disability.

I do understand that their are income and asset limitations. My point was that I don't understand have a cleft would be a significant disability entitling a family to government money. And we wonder why so many people are on ssi

[Deleted]

So you found my explanation lacking? 

[Opti]

Cereb, neither do I, but this board has made me paranoid.
As some know, right now I do get some foodstamps, and I
feel odd every time I use them. I only get some and will be getting
less soon as tomorrow I will be bringing a copy of my first new
paycheck(maternity leave hours kicked in) to the social services
office to show my upward tick in income.

Since I've never had children and I like lots of different things
I've always shopped lots of different stores hence rarely buying
all that much at one even when I made the good money. I'm
not sure how odd I must appear to the cashiers now, but sometimes
I use my own money even though I'm deeply in the red, when I just
need one cheap item like a small sleeve or garlic or a 1 lb. bag of carrots.
Haven't been able to bring myself to buy an item around $1 on the EBT
card by itself.



The only time I pay attention to other people's stuff is if the line is
slow and they have something interesting on the conveyor belt. Maybe
the EBT watchers buy lots of stuff at peak times so they see it?

[mmhmm]

Dec 19, 2013 20:47:35 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 19, 2013 20:34:13 GMT -5 Opti said:

"I would really like everyone feeling sorry for the permanent food stamp users to take a day trip to any large supermarket in a large northern city on the fifth of the month and observe buying patterns of the food stamp users.

Do not go before 2 pm. They do not get out and about before then.
"

Why the 5th? I think around here cards are loaded on the 1st. I avoid
crowds, rarely buy more than what will fit in a small cart or basket
so I miss anyone who buys a cartful of food by design. I'm the person
on the 7, 10, or 12 items or less line. I'm pretty sure I don't want to
waste my time seeking out lines I avoid like the plague just to see
if I can catch EBT users who spend it all at once. And except for the
ShopRite, I'm not sure how convenient any of my preferred grocery stores
are to people who don't own cars or need public transportation.


Perhaps some of the EBT watchers can start creating videos on their
phone and posting them on Youtube and then here. I'm going to stick
to my crowd avoidance. I still have bad memories of the time I made the
mistake to go shopping at the Mall on a Sunday. <Shudder>

I don't look nor care what others are buying.  Once their money is gone, it is gone.

If someone wishes to be their store's Gladys Kravitz, have at it.

No kidding!  I haven't got a clue how the person ahead of me in a grocery line pays for his/her groceries.  I don't have a clue what they have in their grocery cart, either - unless, they tip the darned thing over and need my help picking it all up and putting it back in the cart.  

[cereb]

Dec 19, 2013 21:00:33 GMT -5 Opti said:

Cereb, neither do I, but this board has made me paranoid.
As some know, right now I do get some foodstamps, and I
feel odd every time I use them. I only get some and will be getting
less soon as tomorrow I will be bringing a copy of my first new
paycheck(maternity leave hours kicked in) to the social services
office to show my upward tick in income.

Since I've never had children and I like lots of different things
I've always shopped lots of different stores hence rarely buying
all that much at one even when I made the good money. I'm
not sure how odd I must appear to the cashiers now, but sometimes
I use my own money even though I'm deeply in the red, when I just
need one cheap item like a small sleeve or garlic or a 1 lb. bag of carrots.
Haven't been able to bring myself to buy an item around $1 on the EBT
card by itself.



The only time I pay attention to other people's stuff is if the line is
slow and they have something interesting on the conveyor belt. Maybe
the EBT watchers buy lots of stuff at peak times so they see it?

That was kind of part of my point. It's not anyone's business what you buy. it's also none of their business if you pay with an EBT card. You qualified for the benefit, it's yours to help you care for yourself in the way you see fit within the guidelines of the program.

[mmhmm]

Dec 19, 2013 20:55:40 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 19, 2013 19:29:09 GMT -5 cereb said:

You have to meet certain income criteria for your child to be eligible for SSI benefits. The child does not automatically qualify because of a qualifying disability.

I do understand that their are income and asset limitations. My point was that I don't understand have a cleft would be a significant disability entitling a family to government money. And we wonder why so many people are on ssi

I doubt it would be, MT.  Oped only got the paperwork to apply.  She never used it, so we don't know the cleft would have resulted in any entitlement.

[cereb]

Dec 19, 2013 20:55:40 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 19, 2013 19:29:09 GMT -5 cereb said:

You have to meet certain income criteria for your child to be eligible for SSI benefits. The child does not automatically qualify because of a qualifying disability.

I do understand that their are income and asset limitations. My point was that I don't understand have a cleft would be a significant disability entitling a family to government money. And we wonder why so many people are on ssi

It's unlikely your child would have qualified. Just because someone hands you an application doesn't mean you would qualify. Sometimes social workers have the "throw it all at the wall and see what sticks" method.

[EVT1]

Dec 19, 2013 20:55:40 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 19, 2013 19:29:09 GMT -5 cereb said:

You have to meet certain income criteria for your child to be eligible for SSI benefits. The child does not automatically qualify because of a qualifying disability.

I do understand that their are income and asset limitations. My point was that I don't understand have a cleft would be a significant disability entitling a family to government money. And we wonder why so many people are on ssi

Because it can be really bad and affect speech.  Just like retardation or other conditions there are many versions- some are disabling, some are not- can they function adequately is the question.

I did not handle child cases, but it is the same idea with adults as to whether they are disabled enough to work or not- it isn't the condition, it is the effects of the condition on the person's ability to find and maintain gainful employment.

Some are automatic- like blindness, being paralyzed,etc.  Some people manage to find work and do well in spite of a disability- it does not mean they are not disabled.  There may be something behind the statistics showing an increase in disability due to the bad economy- maybe just more people applying because they were able to handle it before without help. What has not changed is the criteria. If they are on it- they are likely significantly disabled.