As the new saying goes: Oh SNAP!

[Value Buy]

State of Indiana is changing snap benefits in January.

Beneficiaries of Snap will now get their free money twice a month. Half at the beginning, half after the fifteenth.

Why?

Because it seems grocery chains complained they could not adequately provide the merchandise to the customers effectively, even though the snap cards would be totally used up by the middle of the month. In truth the stores complained they did no business at the end of the month (in the inner cities) and could not afford to staff the stores, hurting their employees in the pocket book.

I think the real reason is to prevent Snap members from going on a food binge. Why?

Indiana is instituting a $400,000 campaign to educate Snap beneficiaries not to use all the card dollars immediately, and to spread their purchases out over the entire month.

Half the cost to be paid by the Federal government.

Figure, Indiana would be average in cost compared to other states (Illinois I assume would be double or triple) low population states less than Indiana, it will only cost taxpayers 20 million or so to tell recipients not to spend the card all at once.

Imagine having to spend tax dollars to tell people how they must spend their bennies efficiently......

 

[Value Buy]

I would much prefer just outlawing candy, snack cakes and soda pop from purchases, and leave well enough alone.

This would extend food benefits tremendously.

I would not even worry about lobster and crab legs.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Stores were complaining about staffing levels at the end of the month?  That makes no sense whatsoever.  They're going to do the same amount of sales either way.  It's actually better for them to have all the sales be front loaded and be dead the second half of the month.  Their workers are mostly hourly.  Cut their hours at the end of the month.  Lowers overhead without hurting sales.  With the sales spread throughout the month they need higher staffing levels all the time while still getting the same amount of sales.

I can see the running out of money angle on the part of the beneficiaries.  If they were good with money they wouldn't be on SNAP to begin with.

The businesses whining about the front loaded sales makes no sense though.

[Deleted]

It amazes me how many people can't plan ahead. And I'm not talking food stamps. I've had two friends who own their own businesses tell me in the past month that if they don't work they don't make money, so they can't take time off at all... ? (These are not new businesses like Dark...)  Maybe it's just because we are more seasonal in our workload, but if I spent every dollar that came in when it came in, we'd starve eventually. .. How's about learning to put some back? ... 

Of course I don't say that...

[Opti]

Perhaps VB can post a link? I don't know why you'd need much education
though. Something in the mail stating effective Jan. 1st benefits will be
deposited in two separate payments, etc.

Its possible some people do all their shopping at once by design. It costs
more gas or bus pass money to do it throughout the month. There are YMers
that go to Costco, etc. only once a month.

I don't think dropping soda and candy would change spending habits all
that much, although I've noticed soda sales have been very prevelant lately.
And you can't get the savings unless you buy three or four cases at once.
 I finally did one offer and had more than a month's worth of soda in
the closet. Of course this week, I could have gotten all three for $1 less.
So I looked like a soda pig one day. Some people do drink a lot of soda but
unless you see all their grocery trips you really don't know if its a deal for the
month, a party, or a soda addict.

[justme]

Dec 11, 2013 13:50:29 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Stores were complaining about staffing levels at the end of the month?  That makes no sense whatsoever.  They're going to do the same amount of sales either way.  It's actually better for them to have all the sales be front loaded and be dead the second half of the month.  Their workers are mostly hourly.  Cut their hours at the end of the month.  Lowers overhead without hurting sales.  With the sales spread throughout the month they need higher staffing levels all the time while still getting the same amount of sales.

I can see the running out of money angle on the part of the beneficiaries.  If they were good with money they wouldn't be on SNAP to begin with.

The businesses whining about the front loaded sales makes no sense though.

It could make some sense if the front loaded sales means they need additional people that may be getting over time? Or maybe if it was spread out they could have less people overall? Instead of needing X total hours a month if it's spread out they only need Y? But they're coming at it from a "our poor workers don't get their hours at the end of the month because we don't make business then, it's all in the beginning of the month due to food stamps" to get the change?

Just thoughts, haven't worked in grocery store so no idea of that makes sense.

[Value Buy]

Dec 11, 2013 13:50:29 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Stores were complaining about staffing levels at the end of the month?  That makes no sense whatsoever.  They're going to do the same amount of sales either way.  It's actually better for them to have all the sales be front loaded and be dead the second half of the month.  Their workers are mostly hourly.  Cut their hours at the end of the month.  Lowers overhead without hurting sales.  With the sales spread throughout the month they need higher staffing levels all the time while still getting the same amount of sales.

I can see the running out of money angle on the part of the beneficiaries.  If they were good with money they wouldn't be on SNAP to begin with.

The businesses whining about the front loaded sales makes no sense though.

Depends whether you are a union shop or not. Some of the chains are unionized, and members are guaranteed a minimum number of hours every week.

Easy for the corporation to do it the first two weeks, but when sales drop 50 percent the last week of the month, they still must work people they do not need on duty.

Do not kid yourself. This is a big issue for retailers.

In the article it said businesses could not adequately serve the customers with the merchandise. I am saying that is not the issue. They can and do serve the demand.

[Phoenix84]

It's a shame you have to spend so much tax payer money to tell people what should be common sense. 

Maybe I'm a cold, heartless bastard.  But if people are stupid and blow all the money in the first week of the month, why is that anyone's problem but theirs?

[Value Buy]

Dec 11, 2013 14:02:18 GMT -5 Opti said:

Perhaps VB can post a link? I don't know why you'd need much education
though. Something in the mail stating effective Jan. 1st benefits will be
deposited in two separate payments, etc.

Its possible some people do all their shopping at once by design. It costs
more gas or bus pass money to do it throughout the month. There are YMers
that go to Costco, etc. only once a month.

I don't think dropping soda and candy would change spending habits all
that much, although I've noticed soda sales have been very prevelant lately.
And you can't get the savings unless you buy three or four cases at once.
 I finally did one offer and had more than a month's worth of soda in
the closet. Of course this week, I could have gotten all three for $1 less.
So I looked like a soda pig one day. Some people do drink a lot of soda but
unless you see all their grocery trips you really don't know if its a deal for the
month, a party, or a soda addict.

No link. Just on a middle  page in my local paper. The Times.

But, since it sounded like all the states are switching to this formula, check with your state.

Indiana is not exactly known for leading the pack in making changes I anything. We always follow the pack.

I will look if it is on their website and post if it is there for you.

Might take awhile.

[Phoenix84]

I never understood why there weren't restrictions on what you can purchase with SNAP money.  Why can't it be more like WIC in that regard?  However, I know the thing no one ever mentions is many people on SNAP can't cook worth a damn, so they have to eat processed food by default.

[billisonboard]

Dec 11, 2013 14:43:01 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I never understood why there weren't restrictions on what you can purchase with SNAP money. ...

Because businesses push to not have restrictions.  For example:

The Fresno County Supervisors will decide whether to allow some "food stamp" recipients buy food in restaurants.
...
The California Restaurant Association is urging the Board of Supervisors to approve the program. abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=7944886

[Opti]

I never understood why there weren't restrictions on what you can purchase with SNAP money. Why can't it be more like WIC in that regard?

There are some restrictions, but I'm glad its not like WIC. Since WIC is
subsidized by the food producers and is a certain basket of goods versus
a pure dollar amount I think the taxpayers can be ponying up some big dollars
for WIC in certain locations compared to others. I've seen various items
approved by WIC like juice or even frozen veggies that can be pretty expensive
at certain stores. As a WIC Consumer you aren't going to care whether the
juice you can get costs $4.19 or $2.00 on sale. As a SNAP recipient you are.


I'd be OK with restricting a certain percentage of spending on categories
people who constantly complain about SNAP don't like, but I think some
soda or candy isn't the end of the world and neither are common at food pantries
so my guess is you are going to shop for protein, fruits and veggies, and some
snacks. To have some allowed vices seems human and OK to me. Candy and soda
are much better than say begging road-side and spending it on liquor and drugs.
SNAP purchases are likely always used. I wonder how much WIC stuff goes to
waste? I know some of you on this board have confessed to being well-behaved
with food all the time, but I am not. So since I feel some candy or soda within
reason is OK I don't feel the need to deny that option to SNAP recipients or
anyone really.

[Opti]

Bills, I feel more upset about the use in restaurants than I do about the
soda or candy stuff. I can see perhaps McD's or low end fast food for
retail workers but really don't think its a good idea in general.

[shelby]

And there is always the fact that junk food and empty calories are cheaper than healthy foods.

[Deleted]

Phoenix doesn't realize food stamps are as much corporate as individual welfare....

[Sum Dum Gai]

Depends whether you are a union shop or not. Some of the chains are unionized, and members are guaranteed a minimum number of hours every week.

Easy for the corporation to do it the first two weeks, but when sales drop 50 percent the last week of the month, they still must work people they do not need on duty.

Do not kid yourself. This is a big issue for retailers.

Good point.  I tend to think that most low wage retail jobs are hourly employees, but I forget that a lot of them are unionized and whatnot.

Still doesn't seem like the change would effect grocery retailers much.  The beneficiaries are getting the same dollar amount every month whether they get it all at once or they get it twice a month, so the grocery stores in the area won't see their sales volume change at all.  Just shifts some purchasing from the beginning of the month to mid month.  They'll have to adjust a bit, but it doesn't seem like it would change all that much on their end.

[Value Buy]

Dec 11, 2013 15:09:02 GMT -5 Opti said:

I never understood why there weren't restrictions on what you can purchase with SNAP money. Why can't it be more like WIC in that regard?

There are some restrictions, but I'm glad its not like WIC. Since WIC is
subsidized by the food producers and is a certain basket of goods versus
a pure dollar amount I think the taxpayers can be ponying up some big dollars
for WIC in certain locations compared to others. I've seen various items
approved by WIC like juice or even frozen veggies that can be pretty expensive
at certain stores. As a WIC Consumer you aren't going to care whether the
juice you can get costs $4.19 or $2.00 on sale. As a SNAP recipient you are.


I'd be OK with restricting a certain percentage of spending on categories
people who constantly complain about SNAP don't like, but I think some
soda or candy isn't the end of the world and neither are common at food pantries
so my guess is you are going to shop for protein, fruits and veggies, and some
snacks. To have some allowed vices seems human and OK to me. Candy and soda
are much better than say begging road-side and spending it on liquor and drugs.
SNAP purchases are likely always used. I wonder how much WIC stuff goes to
waste? I know some of you on this board have confessed to being well-behaved
with food all the time, but I am not. So since I feel some candy or soda within
reason is OK I don't feel the need to deny that option to SNAP recipients or
anyone really.

I do not know about all food items available on wic, but I do know the baby formula corporations have to bid to the individual states for the formula to be listed on the individual tickets. This is a subsidy to the state, or bill back for every can purchased. This is not a subsidy to taxpayers, but to the state. This also guarentees a monopoly for the winning bidder in the big inner city markets.

Whether this creates an over all price increase to regular consumers to defray costs for the subsidy, I do not know.

When it comes to the food items, it is a little different.

It usually lists large eggs, 16 oz peanut butter (before the pkg shrinkage) without a specific name brand.

Cereals were different, in that it was a specific brand and size, so they might have been out for bid too

Now there are tickets with strictly fresh fruits and veggies, for a specific dollar amount.

[Tennesseer]

Value Buy - is this what you are posting about?

INDIANAPOLIS – Almost a million Hoosiers receiving food stamps will see the date they receive benefits shift in January under a new law.

The amount of the benefits will not change. The monthly average for a household of two is about $291.

But the date they get the money will move.

The Indiana Family and Social Services Administration is waging a campaign to alert the 926,000 recipients of SNAP – Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program – of the change to ease any possible burdens.

Lawmakers changed the law earlier this year partially at the urging of grocers and other retailers wanting to spread out the traffic and make inventory stocking easier.

Right now the money is loaded onto an electronic benefits card in the first 10 days of the month, depending on the first letter of the person’s last name.

Under the new system, the benefits will be loaded between the 5th and the 23rd depending on the last name.

January will serve as a transition month to eliminate any delay of benefits.

For instance if your last name is Smith and you usually receive benefits on the 8th – in January you will receive half of the amount on the 8th and the other half on your new date, the 19th.

Then in February and in the future, your full amount will be received on the 19th.

The corresponding date changes are this: A or B goes from the 1st to the 5th; C or D goes from the 2nd to the 7th; E, F or G goes from the 3rd to the 9th; H or I goes from the 4th to the 11th; J, K or L goes from the 5th to the 13th; M or N goes from the 6th to the 15th; O, P, Q or R goes from the 7th to the 17th; S goes from the 8th to the 19th; T, U or V goes from the 9th to the 21st; and W, X, Y or Z goes from the 10th to the 23rd.

Rest of story here:  SNAP benefit dates to change in Indiana

If I am reading the story correctly, citizens will still only get one payment a month.  But depending on the first letter of your last name, the day you receive it will be different.

Only in January will they receive two payments.

[Value Buy]

Dec 11, 2013 17:16:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Value Buy - is this what you are posting about?

INDIANAPOLIS – Almost a million Hoosiers receiving food stamps will see the date they receive benefits shift in January under a new law.

The amount of the benefits will not change. The monthly average for a household of two is about $291.

But the date they get the money will move.

The Indiana Family and Social Services Administration is waging a campaign to alert the 926,000 recipients of SNAP – Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program – of the change to ease any possible burdens.

Lawmakers changed the law earlier this year partially at the urging of grocers and other retailers wanting to spread out the traffic and make inventory stocking easier.

Right now the money is loaded onto an electronic benefits card in the first 10 days of the month, depending on the first letter of the person’s last name.

Under the new system, the benefits will be loaded between the 5th and the 23rd depending on the last name.

January will serve as a transition month to eliminate any delay of benefits.

For instance if your last name is Smith and you usually receive benefits on the 8th – in January you will receive half of the amount on the 8th and the other half on your new date, the 19th.

Then in February and in the future, your full amount will be received on the 19th.

The corresponding date changes are this: A or B goes from the 1st to the 5th; C or D goes from the 2nd to the 7th; E, F or G goes from the 3rd to the 9th; H or I goes from the 4th to the 11th; J, K or L goes from the 5th to the 13th; M or N goes from the 6th to the 15th; O, P, Q or R goes from the 7th to the 17th; S goes from the 8th to the 19th; T, U or V goes from the 9th to the 21st; and W, X, Y or Z goes from the 10th to the 23rd.

Rest of story here:  SNAP benefit dates to change in Indiana

If I am reading the story correctly, citizens will still only get one payment a month.  But depending on the first letter of your last name, the day you receive it will be different.

Only in January will they receive two payments.

Tenn,

the article I read was basically this release, until the statement:

Then in February and in the future, your full amount will be received on the 19th.

And it did not list the corresponding date changes........

I reread the article, and I still read it as if there would be two payments every month.

The paper must have written it a little too loosely, I guess.

I went to their website to post the article, but I could not find it.

My question is why would the state spend $400,000 to announce a one month change in benefits, with two personal written letters to all beneficiaries confirming and explaining a one month change in distribution? I can almost understand paying that much money for a huge change in benefit distribution by bi-monthly payments, but for just a date change, one notice should suffice.

I know the question is not to you, but to my state for the waste of postage......

Please accept a mea culpa from me, at this time!

[Value Buy]

I have had a horrendous time posting today. Lost posts, disappearing websites, but no angry bears showing up. Not even a snow leopard.

Maybe all the cold snowy weather has caused problems with my internet service,so if I fail to post most of the evening, you know I am off in the internet wasteland, somewhere.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 11, 2013 13:24:47 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

State of Indiana is changing snap benefits in January.

Beneficiaries of Snap will now get their free money twice a month. Half at the beginning, half after the fifteenth.

Why?

Because it seems grocery chains complained they could not adequately provide the merchandise to the customers effectively, even though the snap cards would be totally used up by the middle of the month. In truth the stores complained they did no business at the end of the month (in the inner cities) and could not afford to staff the stores, hurting their employees in the pocket book.

I think the real reason is to prevent Snap members from going on a food binge. Why?

Indiana is instituting a $400,000 campaign to educate Snap beneficiaries not to use all the card dollars immediately, and to spread their purchases out over the entire month.

Half the cost to be paid by the Federal government.

Figure, Indiana would be average in cost compared to other states (Illinois I assume would be double or triple) low population states less than Indiana, it will only cost taxpayers 20 million or so to tell recipients not to spend the card all at once.

Imagine having to spend tax dollars to tell people how they must spend their bennies efficiently......

 

People shouldn't be on SNAP benefits long enough to need to learn to budget them.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 11, 2013 18:03:22 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I have had a horrendous time posting today. Lost posts, disappearing websites, but no angry bears showing up. Not even a snow leopard.

Maybe all the cold snowy weather has caused problems with my internet service,so if I fail to post most of the evening, you know I am off in the internet wasteland, somewhere.

The board is STILL eating my links- I have to cut and paste them directly.  If I try to use the link button to insert the link- *poof* they're gone.

[kadee79]

Having spent 30+ yrs. in retail, mostly in grocery & drug stores...a couple of things.

I do believe that MOST states have spread the dates for cards being loaded throughout each month...and not just for the retailers benefit, but so some families who have more than one recipient can better manage their food storage and transportation. I live in Ga. and this was done quite some time ago here.

Another thingy....When food stamps first started, back with paper stamps, LUXURY items were NOT ALLOWED! That included candy, gum, sodas, chips...most "junk" foods. BUT, the manufacturers started hollering, they were being discriminated against...especially ones like Frito Lay and Coke! So they eventually got included. And now the same has happened with both "prepared" meals, like deli meals (used to be excluded), other hot foods (like rotisserie chickens) and even fast food. The reason for this change....well, homeless have no way of cooking foods, they need "prepared" foods available to them. So I suppose now that other restaurants are hollering that they should be included also as THEY are now being discriminated against.

And this is not only a form of corporate welfare, it is also another subsidy for farms! Their crops are required to produce the products that these corps. sell!

And if I remember correctly, back when Food Stamps were first being considered, that was a BIG pushing point...the program would help farmers sell their crops!

[happyhoix]

Another thingy....When food stamps first started, back with paper stamps, LUXURY items were NOT ALLOWED! That included candy, gum, sodas, chips...most "junk" foods. BUT, the manufacturers started hollering, they were being discriminated against...especially ones like Frito Lay and Coke!

I can totally see this.

A while back there was some push against the soda industry around here - I can't remember if it was adding on a tax to soda sales or what - and there was a flurry of TV ads showing moms filling their carts with big bottles of soda talking about how important it was to have freedom of choice to buy what they want, without Big Government looking over your shoulder. 

Soda has no nutritional value at all, but it's a giant industry, so I don't see any one having the political clout to take them on anytime soon.  

[shelby]

"TV ads showing moms filling their carts with big bottles of soda"

Haha that will show big government....talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[billisonboard]

Dec 12, 2013 12:32:59 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

... And this is not only a form of corporate welfare, it is also another subsidy for farms! Their crops are required to produce the products that these corps. sell!

And if I remember correctly, back when Food Stamps were first being considered, that was a BIG pushing point...the program would help farmers sell their crops!

Which is why the SNAP program is under the Department of Agriculture and not Health and Human Services: www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-snap

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 12, 2013 14:23:46 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 12, 2013 12:32:59 GMT -5 kadee79 said:

... And this is not only a form of corporate welfare, it is also another subsidy for farms! Their crops are required to produce the products that these corps. sell!

And if I remember correctly, back when Food Stamps were first being considered, that was a BIG pushing point...the program would help farmers sell their crops!

Which is why the SNAP program is under the Department of Agriculture and not Health and Human Services: www.fns.usda.gov/snap/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-snap

If you take the time to think honestly and objectively about the idea that the government can tax people that create value in the market and who hire other people, so they can give it to people who ostensibly cannot afford food (because they don't have a job due to high taxes) so farmers can grow more food, I guess to pay more taxes so people can buy their food?

[cereb]

Dec 12, 2013 8:08:23 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Dec 11, 2013 13:24:47 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

State of Indiana is changing snap benefits in January.

Beneficiaries of Snap will now get their free money twice a month. Half at the beginning, half after the fifteenth.

Why?

Because it seems grocery chains complained they could not adequately provide the merchandise to the customers effectively, even though the snap cards would be totally used up by the middle of the month. In truth the stores complained they did no business at the end of the month (in the inner cities) and could not afford to staff the stores, hurting their employees in the pocket book.

I think the real reason is to prevent Snap members from going on a food binge. Why?

Indiana is instituting a $400,000 campaign to educate Snap beneficiaries not to use all the card dollars immediately, and to spread their purchases out over the entire month.

Half the cost to be paid by the Federal government.

Figure, Indiana would be average in cost compared to other states (Illinois I assume would be double or triple) low population states less than Indiana, it will only cost taxpayers 20 million or so to tell recipients not to spend the card all at once.

Imagine having to spend tax dollars to tell people how they must spend their bennies efficiently......

 

People shouldn't be on SNAP benefits long enough to need to learn to budget them.

Ah..but can you live on $740.00 a month without a SNAP benefit? I doubt it.

[whoisjohngalt]

I don't want you all to faint about what I am about to say....but I think I completely changed my mind food stamps.  I realize that I REALLY don't care about what people buy with them.  They are getting free money - what do I care what they spend it on?  How is it going to help me, as a TP whether they buy crab legs or salad of TV dinners?

I used to say that "well, if I give you money, I want to control how you spend it", but now....well, you got your $100, you are not getting any more, go buy hookers and blow for all I care

[michelyn8]

I'm going to have to some research but I seem to recall that in VA the change was to divide up SNAP disbursements at different times of the month based on DOB or last name or something like that.  I haven't seen anything saying they'd be dividing your individual disbursement into more than one deposit.  

The former makes more sense to me because it allows the State to spread out the disbursements instead of transferring a large amount at the beginning of the month to everyone on SNAP.  Once that money is on your card, its yours until its spent whether you lose eligibility or not - at least that's what I was told when I applied in 2007.  I received two deposits for March and April and became ineligible mid-April due to finding a job.  It was late May before I finished spending my SNAP funds because I made it stretch when I did go to the store.  Helped that what they gave me was at least 2x what I normally spent on groceries before I needed SNAP.