As the new saying goes: Oh SNAP!

[workpublic]

But she doesn't know anything but the ghetto and how do you get her out? How can she get someplace with no money to get a job?



ambitious "ghetto folk" have been doing it for years.

[workpublic]

I do know that I have seen multiple cases of generational dependence on public support because it what those folks have been raised to expect.

according to the apologists "generational welfare" is a myth, doesn't exist, impossible to happen.

[The Captain]

I've posted on other threads about shadowing a landlord who specializes in section 8 units for several months.  He had several units where one was rented by a mother, the other rented by a daughter, both with vouchers.  In one case he found out about a husband and wife who each had a voucher and "rented" one out to someone else.

In one case he had a lady who had 3 grandkids and 2 great grandkids living with her waiting for a 4 bedroom voucher to become available because she was on the waiting list longer than her daughter or grand-daughter.  I know it's only anecdotal evidence but according to him it's common for the parents to have the kids put their name on the voucher waiting list as soon as they become eligible.

I've tried to find data about the section 8 statistics (average length of use, % of people who cycle off before death, number of generations who use it) and can't find anything.  Usually in those cases I have to wonder how bad the statistics are that they are not published as a feel good about how we are giving a hand up.  I do know there was a story in the Tribune a few years back following up on the families who had to move out of Cabrini Green and there was a high % who were still in public supported housing of one type or another.

It really bothers me that I can't dig anything up on this.
 

[workpublic]

what i don't get is giving the kids to the grandmothers. they're the ones that failed to raise the mothers properly.

we have "single mother" apts in croton falls. all are young white girls. virtually everyone of them has an able bodied(most quite ripped) manchild living with them. some are the baby daddies, some are the next guy after the baby daddy.

[shelby]

"(most quite ripped)"

Haha maybe you are a little too interested in them!

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 17, 2013 9:42:56 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 17, 2013 8:12:30 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

... We target young people with her attitude. ... provide much more than the government ... results to follow. ...

If you do a good job of selecting only candidates with specific traits, throw enough resources at those individuals, then you should get great results. That should prove once and for all if you target only select individuals and have plenty of resources to assist them, you will have a successful program. Without the ability to hand select participants and without enough resources, chances of success drop tremendously.

Well, it just makes sense to target those whose spirit hasn't been utterly destroyed by the system, however what we've found is that the rest will refuse to meet the requirements anyway.  The government, however, has guns-- and in a perfect world they'd "hand select" those that qualify, too- by forcing upon them similar requirements.  Just sayin'. Our philosophy is that our country is in the predicament we're in is not a failing of government- government is what it is, it can't help but screw things up- but a failing of the Church.  

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 16, 2013 18:55:19 GMT -5 Opti said:

Its sad, but PBP's "solution" doesn't really help either.
The daughter needs help finding work and eventually
moving away.


Mom sadly picked her life and needs to come up with plans
of how to survive when the kids are gone. Enough jobs will
weed out a lot of those who really don't want to be on these
programs.


Maybe we can all pray a job opportunity into the girl's life.

Our number one, and main requirement is a "welfare to work mentoring" program-- we are currently recruiting employers who will work with us on hiring people.  Participants have to look for a job like unemployment applicants- reporting in weekly.  They have 60 days to find a job, or we cut them lose.  Once they're employed, if they're fired for cause- we cut them lose. It's more than enough time to find an entry level job, and keeping a job is fairly basic.  We haven't been at it long, but if I could identify the #1 problem it is that they are not in the habit of showing up, showing up on time, and showing up prepared to work.  We are finding that we have to do a lot of "life coaching" and we're modifying our mentoring to help keep them on track with a job.  None of this is as painfully simple as we thought- but we feel very strongly that if we can start a movement within all the churches in America, we could end welfare through attrition.  It won't end, save for financial collapse, any other way. 

[billisonboard]

Dec 17, 2013 17:42:32 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

... None of this is as painfully simple as we thought- ...

Well that is a good sign.

[zibazinski]

She could be a CNA is less than 90 days. Jobs everywhere. Not huge paying but it starts there and can become other jobs. If she can remotely type, dispatch training. Emt takes a few months and there's a need there as well.

[shelby]

Well she needs a good mentor that's for sure. Hard to understand your options when nobody around you takes advantage of them.

[whoisjohngalt]

Dec 17, 2013 14:07:47 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 17, 2013 12:16:30 GMT -5 @patstab said:

It's to late for the mother, but that daughter could be saved. But she doesn't know anything but the ghetto and how do you get her out? How can she get someplace with no money to get a job?

The mother is 41 years old...bullshit that it is too late for her...ffs, I'm 42!  She disgusts me...I can't imagine just doing nothing with my life. 

Exactly.

When we came here, my parents were in their early 40's with VERY broken English.  Somehow they managed to get jobs instead of foodstamps and welfare.

[cereb]

'None of this is as painfully simple as we thought-"


No..really? LOL!

[cereb]

"what i don't get is giving the kids to the grandmothers. they're the ones that failed to raise the mothers properly"

Drug addiction.

[billisonboard]

So is the idea that the government should be much quicker to take children away from birth parents based solely on economic criteria and give them to those who demonstrate to the government that they are economically able to support kids?  Would it be a good idea to have the government do this at birth?  Demonstrate economic stability to the government or don't take the kid home from the hospital?  Would there be an added governmental requirement for twins, triplets, etc?  If a woman who has been deemed unfit becomes pregnant again, what steps should the government take?

Seems interesting what power government is getting in this process.

[shelby]

Dec 17, 2013 21:39:46 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

So is the idea that the government should be much quicker to take children away from birth parents based solely on economic criteria and give them to those who demonstrate to the government that they are economically able to support kids?  Would it be a good idea to have the government do this at birth?  Demonstrate economic stability to the government or don't take the kid home from the hospital?  Would there be an added governmental requirement for twins, triplets, etc?  If a woman who has been deemed unfit becomes pregnant again, what steps should the government take?

Seems interesting what power government is getting in this process.

I think the idea is to starve them until they give up the kids on their own.

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 17, 2013 21:52:09 GMT -5 shelby said:

Dec 17, 2013 21:39:46 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

So is the idea that the government should be much quicker to take children away from birth parents based solely on economic criteria and give them to those who demonstrate to the government that they are economically able to support kids?  Would it be a good idea to have the government do this at birth?  Demonstrate economic stability to the government or don't take the kid home from the hospital?  Would there be an added governmental requirement for twins, triplets, etc?  If a woman who has been deemed unfit becomes pregnant again, what steps should the government take?

Seems interesting what power government is getting in this process.

I think the idea is to starve them until they give up the kids on their own.

You seriously don't see an issue with a woman spitting out 6 kids by 5 different daddies, none of whom are able or willing to support their kids? You have no issue with this person never working and letting the taxpayers support her and her children?

[cereb]

Dec 17, 2013 21:56:23 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 17, 2013 21:52:09 GMT -5 shelby said:

I think the idea is to starve them until they give up the kids on their own.

You seriously don't see an issue with a woman spitting out 6 kids by 5 different daddies, none of whom are able or willing to support their kids? You have no issue with this person never working and letting the taxpayers support her and her children?

Of course it's an issue, but you can't solve it by creating yet another issue.

[shelby]

"You seriously don't see an issue with a woman spitting out 6 kids by 5 different daddies, none of whom are able or willing to support their kids? You have no issue with this person never working and letting the taxpayers support her and her children?"

Of course I see it as a problem but I sure don't think they are living the high life on tax payers dime either. I just don't see a better alternative to giving a couple hundred bucks a month to at least keep people from selling their babies on the corner or turning to crime. If you have a better alternative that would produce a positive outcome I would love to hear it.

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 17, 2013 22:09:13 GMT -5 shelby said:

"You seriously don't see an issue with a woman spitting out 6 kids by 5 different daddies, none of whom are able or willing to support their kids? You have no issue with this person never working and letting the taxpayers support her and her children?"

Of course I see it as a problem but I sure don't think they are living the high life on tax payers dime either. I just don't see a better alternative to giving a couple hundred bucks a month to at least keep people from selling their babies on the corner or turning to crime. If you have a better alternative that would produce a positive outcome I would love to hear it.

Depo shots if you want any kind of welfare?

[Tennesseer]

Dec 17, 2013 22:12:31 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 17, 2013 22:09:13 GMT -5 shelby said:

"You seriously don't see an issue with a woman spitting out 6 kids by 5 different daddies, none of whom are able or willing to support their kids? You have no issue with this person never working and letting the taxpayers support her and her children?"

Of course I see it as a problem but I sure don't think they are living the high life on tax payers dime either. I just don't see a better alternative to giving a couple hundred bucks a month to at least keep people from selling their babies on the corner or turning to crime. If you have a better alternative that would produce a positive outcome I would love to hear it.

Depo shots if you want any kind of welfare?

So the choice ìs starvation and homlessness or (pretty much) forced sterilization?

[cereb]

Dec 17, 2013 22:12:31 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 17, 2013 22:09:13 GMT -5 shelby said:

"You seriously don't see an issue with a woman spitting out 6 kids by 5 different daddies, none of whom are able or willing to support their kids? You have no issue with this person never working and letting the taxpayers support her and her children?"

Of course I see it as a problem but I sure don't think they are living the high life on tax payers dime either. I just don't see a better alternative to giving a couple hundred bucks a month to at least keep people from selling their babies on the corner or turning to crime. If you have a better alternative that would produce a positive outcome I would love to hear it.

Depo shots if you want any kind of welfare?

I get where you are coming from. Truly I do. But that's totally a human rights violation and I would like to think we have evolved away from that sort of thing. It isn't right holding food and shelter over someone's head in exchange for an agreement to give up the basic right of having the choice to do or not to do with your own body. It's forced medication. Can't do it.

[Opti]

"She could be a CNA is less than 90 days. Jobs everywhere. Not huge paying but it starts there and can become other jobs. If she can remotely type, dispatch training. Emt takes a few months and there's a need there as well."

Training costs money. Are you going to find her somewhere that's going to
pay the around $1000 for CNA training plus any needed bus fare? I'm curious
as to what other jobs a CNA can become that does not involve more training
for far more money and time. Plus she'll need to buy scrubs before she starts
making any income.
 
Not familiar with the cost of dispatch and EMT training, but my guess is more
than $99, correct?

[cereb]

EMT Basic is anywhere between 800.00 and 2k depending on the school.

[Opti]

Given one has to have $2K or less in assets in many places to
stay on SNAP, I think $2K schooling costs aren't going to happen
for people in these circumstances. That of course doesn't include
the problem of actually having enough assets to worry about
reaching the limit.



There aren't many good solutions or choices IMHO when you are
in that position because anything that costs money, probably even $20,
is not an easy thing to pull off and will require giving up something else.
She did the $9 charge and it for some reason did not get her the job.
She didn't get the free computer probably because the cost was over
$15 to do so. If she didn't have the money for that, it seems unrealistic
to think she's going to pull off anything that costs more than 4 bus passes
and a metro or whatever it was. I think people who aren't in that situation
think of what they could do if they had slightly less money than they have now
versus actually solving the problem using things that are actually possible
for these people.


The answer, if one exists, should require no more than $10 out of pocket
for her.

[whoisjohngalt]

Dec 17, 2013 22:19:51 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 17, 2013 22:12:31 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Depo shots if you want any kind of welfare?

So the choice ìs starvation and homlessness or (pretty much) forced sterilization?

Let's not be too dramatic - it's just a BC. 

[Tennesseer]

Dec 18, 2013 0:23:24 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Dec 17, 2013 22:19:51 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

So the choice ìs starvation and homlessness or (pretty much) forced sterilization?

Let's not be too dramatic - it's just a BC. 

Can a woman conceive while under depo? No a woman cannot. So what would you call it if not forced sterilization when the only other choice is no food or shelter? 

[Miss Tequila]

Dec 18, 2013 6:37:07 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 18, 2013 0:23:24 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Let's not be too dramatic - it's just a BC. 

Can a woman conceive while under depo? No a woman cannot. So what would you call it if not forced sterilization when the only other choice is no food or shelter? 

Of course she can't conceive....that's the point!

Ok, so you don't like doing it hat way. How about we provide incentives. For every depo shot they take they receive an extra $50? They still have their basic food and shelter (same as they would have if they didn't take the shot) and now they have the option to earn extra money. The choice...spit out more babies you can't afford or pocket some extra cash. Liberals love to give people choice so I think this is the perfect solution.

[Deleted]

I am all for incentivizing people to sterilize. 

[Tennesseer]

Dec 18, 2013 6:53:27 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Dec 18, 2013 6:37:07 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Can a woman conceive while under depo? No a woman cannot. So what would you call it if not forced sterilization when the only other choice is no food or shelter? 

Of course she can't conceive....hate the point!

Ok, so you don't like doing it hat way. How about we provide incentives. For every depo shit they take they receive an extra $50? They still have their basic food and shelter (same as they would have if they didn't take the shot) and now they have the option to earn extra money. The choice...spit out more babies you can't afford or pocket some extra cash. Liberals love to give people choice so I think this is the perfect solution.

I would rather see ìncentives rather than 'either or' scenarios as it pertains to "depo shit"s (ìt ìs 5:00 pm some where I suppose).

I would also like to see a temporary 10-15% reduction in monthly benefits should the person become pregnant when birth control is offered free to them.

[michelyn8]

Dec 17, 2013 15:56:09 GMT -5 workpublic said:

what i don't get is giving the kids to the grandmothers. they're the ones that failed to raise the mothers properly.

we have "single mother" apts in croton falls. all are young white girls. virtually everyone of them has an able bodied(most quite ripped) manchild living with them. some are the baby daddies, some are the next guy after the baby daddy.

I have to take issue with this.  Once a child reaches a certain age there is only so much influence a parent truly has on that child.  You can "raise them right", set a "perfect" example, etc. and still have a child who makes bad choices in their life. 

I made bad choices in my late teens/early 20's and I would dare anyone to look at my childhood and tell me how my parents could possibly be at fault.  It was all me, no one else.