Sarah Palin Thread Recovery

[traelin0]

Readers please take note: This thread is a copy of Seachange-on-the-horizon's old "Does Sarah Palin Believe in Witchcraft?" This thread, and others, were so entertaining that I felt it necessary to repost them, so they wouldn't be lost forever. Please also note the timestamps for the posts. Any missing messages in the sequence which are not posted were deleted in the original thread.

[traelin0]

Seachange-on-the-horizon
Message #1 - 10/29/08 10:09 AM

This is simply not acceptable to have a person with these beliefs elected to high office. What do you think are we a nation of Science or a Nation of Voodoo demonology belief systems?

The video clip is from 2005, and Sarah Palin, who is running for governor, stands on the dais of a small church; three pastors surround her in a huddle. They are touching her shoulders, her forehead, her back. The would-be governor is stone still, eyes cast down, palms up toward heaven. The man on her left, the one touching her forehead, bends occasionally to whisper in her ear.

This is Ed Kalnins, senior pastor of Wasilla Assembly of God, the church Palin attended from the time she was 4-years-old until 2002. The man behind her is praying loudly, relentlessly and with an intensity rarely seen in America's mainstream churches. This is the Kenyan pastor Thomas Muthee, a Pentecostal powerhouse who has a reputation for being able to cast out demons and witches through prayer.

First, Muthee urges the congregation to pray for Palin's success "even in the political arena ... [to] bring finances her way ... and give her the personnel." And then he offers this cryptic blessing: "In the name of Jesus. Every form of witchcraft is what you rebuke." The laying of hands on the Alaska politician, the invoking of Jesus and witches in the same sentence—what the heck is going on?

www.newsweek.com/id/166215

[traelin0]

Seachange-on-the-horizon
Message #2 - 10/29/08 10:30 AM

How embarrasing do you think this would be to the nation if she were elected?

[traelin0]

pueblobill
Message #3 - 10/29/08 10:40 AM

Seachange-on-the-horizon
Message #2 - 10/29/08 10:30 AM
How embarrasing do you think this would be to the nation if she were elected?

Not at all. That is why it is a separation of church and state. She along with every other citizen of the U.S. is free to practice whatever religion she wants to. And the Assembly of god does not practice witchcraft. They might believe it exists because it does. Now the debate is whether you can cast a spell and it actually work is another story. But witchcraft is a practiced religion for some.

[traelin0]

Seachange-on-the-horizon
Message #4 - 10/29/08 10:47 AM

Well then it calls into judgment, her demeanor and fitness for office.


Anyone that wants to be protected from witchcraft by the laying of hands, is just not acceptable.


It demonstrates a particular lack of sophistication.


At least Obama is committed to science and evidence based practice.


I want enlightened modern leadership not someone to lead us back to the dark ages.

[traelin0]

StillOnTheRoad
Message #6 - 10/29/08 10:49 AM

I don't think her religious beliefs disqualify her from election. I do think her religious beliefs should be carefully considered by anyone casting a vote; I know they'd be enough to turn me off even if I didn't already have plenty of reasons to dislike her. I do not want someone anywhere near the presidency who believes that the world is going to end and Jesus is going to come back and rule for a thousand years. (And how scary is it that a third of evangelicals surveyed believe the world is going to end in their lifetimes?)

Interestingly enough, inquiries into her beliefs and the churches she's been affiliated with have been met with "it's her own private business" from the McCain camp. Apparently it's okay to question Obama's church and his religious beliefs, but not Palin's. Interesting...

[traelin0]

Seachange-on-the-horizon
Message #7 - 10/29/08 10:52 AM

CS


Did you even see the video?


I expect a tape demonstrating the speaking of tongues to come out next.

[traelin0]

010011101002101010
Message #8 - 10/29/08 10:54 AM

Weren't there images of the third reich like this? Didn't WW2 leaders of the third reich supposedly practice separation of church and state and pray with other members of government as citizens to 'give us the personnel and finances'... In the current environment of 'terrorism', aren't a certain religious sect being targeted in a fashion similar to the Jewish people in 1929?

My advise is that everyone should read Mark Twains 'The War Prayer'
www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/warprayer.html


It will give insight as to why Obama is the only person that can turn this country around.

[traelin0]

katlab58
Message #9 - 10/29/08 10:55 AM

That is how Pentecostal churches pray. I think you are religophobic! If anyone has belief in God, you invest them with any negative experience you ever had with religious person. You run around afraid that the world as you know it would come to an end. Christians have been in office since the founding of America. We are taught to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the afflicted, take care of the widow and the orphan, be hospitable to strangers. We are taught to forgive others who wrong us, give ten percent of our money to the poor and churches. We have built hospitals. Katherine Drexel of Philadelphia used her wealth to build schools for indians and black children who did not have schooling. We were parts of the underground railroad risking their own lives to give others freedom. We have the countless church organizations that donate money and clothing to those in need overseas and here in America. We run homeless shelters and soup kitchens.


For which of these deeds do you condemn us?

[traelin0]

Seachange-on-the-horizon
Message #10 - 10/29/08 10:56 AM

StillOnTheRoad
Message #6 - 10/29/08 10:49 AM
I do not want someone anywhere near the presidency who believes that the world is going to end and Jesus is going to come back and rule for a thousand years. (And how scary is it that a third of evangelicals surveyed believe the world is going to end in their lifetimes?)

Here here!! Thumbs Up.


It's a clear demonstration of the insanity of their egos, and will seriously cloud their judgments while managing world affairs. We don't want leaders who feel it's their destiny to rule and dominate the world, even if it kills 95% of the rest of us while they wait for the air to clear at the bottom of Cheyenne Mountain.

[traelin0]

workpublic
Message #11 - 10/29/08 10:58 AM

I hope she wears a "sexy witch" costume for halloween and there are pictures of it.

that's all I get out of sarah palin and I'll probably vote for them. she'll never be able to "rule" on her own as POTUS if that time came.
she will be "handled" just like all the rest of the politicos(figureheads for other peoples agendas)

[traelin0]

LOL I forgot how disturbing this thread was. Welcome to old school P&M, crowd.

[traelin0]

Steve0711
Message #12 - 10/29/08 10:59 AM

Let me see if I got you correct, you claim that Sarah Palin believes in witchcraft? I've read your attacks on Republicans (along with Solarmans) and even sarah Palin but this is nothing better than yet another attack on Plain. "Palin saved from Witchcraft" in which you pulled for "proof" already discredits your article and your attended meaning behind it.

This is a rebuke from you and others trying to attack the republicans for people looking into Obama's background, nothing more. You're no better than the liberal media bashing Sarah Palin for anything and everything they can get (fact and especially fiction).

This is nothing worse than a attack from the media left they dug up to discredit her yet again. Did you go after Hilary Clinton this much too? Of course not. Do you have proof she actually believes witches or are you believing what the article believes?


Accusing her of beleiving in witches is inflammatory and shows your true character. You've posted so many articles about McCain and Palin that its impossible to take you seriously.


And btw, If someone claimed Obama was a warlock I'll say the same thing. "B.S"


You should post some more constuctive articles than some random Liberal article.

You should be better than that.

[traelin0]

agilemom
Message #13 - 10/29/08 11:01 AM

StillOnTheRoad
Message #6 - 10/29/08 10:49 AM
I do not want someone anywhere near the presidency who believes that the world is going to end and Jesus is going to come back and rule for a thousand years.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this one of the fundamentals in christianity.


Isn't Obama also claiming to be a christian, so therefore, you shouldn't vote for him either.

[traelin0]

010011101002101010
Message #14 - 10/29/08 11:03 AM

katlab58
Message #9 - 10/29/08 10:55 AM
For which of these deeds do you condemn us?

Read Mark Twains 'The War Prayer'
www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/warprayer.html

[traelin0]

workpublic
Message #16 - 10/29/08 11:14 AM

DELETED
Message #15 - DELETED
Get off the Christians backs. They are the ones who by far reach out to those in need, feed the hungry, cloth the poor and give hope to the hopeless.

and get run out of iraq by the "tolerent" muslims

[traelin0]

Back 2 Reality
Message #17 - 10/29/08 11:23 AM

SOTH

I see from your post that you claim to "believe in God" and "get wisdom from God", would you mind saying wich God that is?

I'm sure you can't/won't answer, but it's worth a shot.


In your eyes she would be much better off sitting beside your Candidate for "Twenty Years" listening to the gospel according to "Jerimiah Wright", than to be prayed for one time by a "Guest Preacher"? Really?

[traelin0]

katlab58
Message #19 - 10/29/08 11:29 AM

If Palin was a practicing member of Wicca, the left would like her more. Feminist would rally around her. Because she says she believes in Jesus people rebuke and revile her, and hang her in effigy. (Although in her case, it is not a hate crime. It is art.)


The Christian nations of the world fought against the Nazis and condemned Adolf Hitler. A whole generation shed their blood to fight for freedom and for their faith. Hitler killed a large number of Catholic Poles and serbs as well as Jews. He killed the mentally ill and homosexuals. Why are you dishonoring their sacrifice by equating Hitler with Chrisitianity? He certainly broke every commandment there was. He was not acting under any churches religious authority. There were many righteous gentiles who risked their lives to save their Jewish neighbors. Why are these people not used as an example of Christianity during that wartime?


You like your hatred and scoffing attitude of all things Christian, perhaps you should examine why.


As far as science goes, it got it's flowering from the Churches belief that God made the world to be orderly and understandable. They left spaces in the Periodic Table for elements not yet found, but believed to exist because God would not create a disorderly world. The study of science was strongly encouraged because to understand the order in which God made the world was to understand the world's maker.


You are forgiven for not knowing this because any reference to the Church in history has been deleted from your "complete" understanding of the culture.

[traelin0]

StillOnTheRoad
Message #20 - 10/29/08 11:30 AM

agilemom
Message #13 - 10/29/08 11:01 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this one of the fundamentals in christianity.

I don't know, but it seems like it requires a literal interpretation of the Bible, which is also something I find repellent in a potential leader.

[traelin0]

StillOnTheRoad
Message #21 - 10/29/08 11:34 AM

katlab58
Message #19 - 10/29/08 11:29 AM
Because she says she believes in Jesus people rebuke and revile her, and hang her in effigy.

People's negative perceptions of Sarah Palin's religion are most certainly not based on the fact that "she believes in Jesus." That's a very mainstream view to hold, that as far as I know every presidential candidate from a major party in history has held. My problem is that her religion is an extreme fundamentalist sect that I do not trust. BTW, one nut hanged her in effigy. Equating criticism of her religious beliefs with hanging her in effigy is more than a stretch.

[traelin0]

i declare shenanagins
Message #22 - 10/29/08 11:50 AM

are you joking? is that a real question?...

[traelin0]

Seachange-on-the-horizon
Message #23 - 10/29/08 11:57 AM

katlab58
Message #9 - 10/29/08 10:55 AM
We are taught to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the afflicted, take care of the widow and the orphan, be hospitable to strangers. We are taught to forgive others who wrong us, give ten percent of our money to the poor and churches. We have built hospitals. Katherine Drexel of Philadelphia used her wealth to build schools for indians and black children who did not have schooling. We were parts of the underground railroad risking their own lives to give others freedom. We have the countless church organizations that donate money and clothing to those in need overseas and here in America. We run homeless shelters and soup kitchens.

Well it's the least you can do since all the religions founded by Abraham; Judaism, Islam and Christianity are nothing but the care and feeding of slaves by the creation of systems of betrayal and false beliefs. After all you have to keep the slaves alive, that is the duty of a slaver. And if you didn't you couldn't be a slaver now could you?


Look, I'm not here to put you down or diminish what you say, but it's time to realize that the notions that a religion or group is chosen and everyone else is inferior or is going to hell is just more of the politics of division and have created much of the suffering and misery humans have experienced for the last two thousand years. It's time to wake up and realize that God is not about fear, hate and anger but about hope, joy, gratitude and love.


Bottom line, the old messages of the McCain and Palin ticket are a dissonant message whereas the Obama/Biden message resonates with where human beings want to go. And that is not to be stuck in the past but to move, forward to a more productive, enlightened and compassionate society. And as that unfolds, all the charity you mention will eventually become completely unnecessary as we will have then built systems that allow each person to thrive and achieve well being.


It simply amazes me sometimes, that if God came to you or us and offered you the state of well being and heaven or a state of struggle and hell, many people would choose the latter even if the former where available. Fortunately there are those among us who will validate that choice and reality as being nuts.

[traelin0]

Seachange-on-the-horizon
Message #24 - 10/29/08 12:00 PM

StillOnTheRoad
Message #6 - 10/29/08 10:49 AM
I do not want someone anywhere near the presidency who believes that the world is going to end and Jesus is going to come back and rule for a thousand years.

agilemom
Message #13 - 10/29/08 11:01 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this one of the fundamentals in christianity.


Isn't Obama also claiming to be a christian, so therefore, you shouldn't vote for him either.

Please don't confuse church dogma with the teachings of Jesus. Thanks.

[traelin0]

katlab58
Message #25 - 10/29/08 12:09 PM

SOTR -- the thing is you really don't know her beliefs. You say she belongs to a specific group there fore she believes all these things I dislike about that group. I find it amusing that you lump Pentecostals (who are big believers in following the Spirit) with fundamentalists (who are big by the book (bible) ) because they surely would never lump themselves together. The pentecostals were driven out of the fundamentalist churches.


It is a bit like lumping Hispanics and Samoans together because they are not white.


The lynching in effigy an event in LA, an incident. The slew of negative reporting and press on her, her children, what she wears is a mainstream event. Those ladies on the View are practically rabid when it comes to talking about her. Why? A columnist, I believe it was Kathleen Parker, wrote about McCain and Palin sitting under a tree and him being smitten with her. Huh? Where are feminists objecting? They are the one's writing this sexist c__P.

The woman is a governor of a state who has an 80% approval rating. She has taken the oil companies to task and forced them to handover windfall profits which she then turned over to the people. She is trying to build for the future by creating a gas pipeline now so America can tap into its natural gas reserves. Her state is not running a deficit, it has a large emergency reserve and manages to give money back to its people. She runs that state like a business to help the people and give money back to the people.


The issues brought against her. The most serious in my opinion - charging women for the rape kits at the hospital. Not true. Those with health insurance - the insurance was billed to reimburse the community. Not one woman was ever charged. A number of other communities have adopted this practice to help keep costs down.


Troopergate -- trying to fire a guy because he refused to fire her ex-brother-in-law. Her BIL was an abusive man who made verbal and physical threats against members of her family and would drive the police car while intoxicated. He also tased his 10 year old step-son. Has the press ever asked why wasn't this guy fired? His supervisor who was a friend and political crony of the governor she beat, would refuse to do just about anything she asked. He was offered another job and he refused to take choosing to quit instead. By the way, he used to send her pictures of her brother-in-law for her to sign to use a promo picture for the state police. It is within the prerogative of any incoming administration to fire whoever is in a top level position. When I worked in Washington, it was a mandatory thing for certain GS levels to submit their resignation with an administration change.


The clothes -- She ran for governor in a parka and fleece pants. Okay for Alaska, not so hot when you are running for the second highest office in the land. This was private money not taxpayer money. I think it is well within the RNC rights to buy an appropriate wardrobe for a candidate who could never afford one on her own. Can you hear the hoots if she showed up in a parka and fleece pants?


So I am asking you? Why the hate? It always seems to come back to her religion and her stands on abortion that spring from it.

[traelin0]

numerica
Message #26 - 10/29/08 12:14 PM

You know I respect Palin's religion. I may not agree with everything but that's OK because we have freedom of religion here and I want it to stay that way. That is the least of her issues, it's not an issue. The real issue is the fact that she is not qualified in any way, shape or form to be the leader of our nation. It's almost as if we pulled a random person off the street and said be president. I agree with her that she is a hockey mom because she is about as qualified as one to be president.

[traelin0]

StillOnTheRoad
Message #27 - 10/29/08 12:19 PM

numerica
Message #26 - 10/29/08 12:14 PM
I may not agree with everything but that's OK because we have freedom of religion here and I want it to stay that way. That is the least of her issues, it's not an issue.

I agree that she's free to believe whatever she wants and no religious belief would disqualify her or any other candidate from running. That said, her religious beliefs are an issue for me.

[traelin0]

pueblobill
Message #28 - 10/29/08 12:27 PM

Seachange-on-the-horizon
Message #23 - 10/29/08 11:57 AM
Well it's the least you can do since all the religions founded by Abraham; Judaism, Islam and Christianity are nothing but the care and feeding of slaves by the creation of systems of betrayal and false beliefs. After all you have to keep the slaves alive, that is the duty of a slaver. And if you didn't you couldn't be a slaver now could you?

So then Obama is a slaver? That is what he intends to do is take care of all of his slaves.

numerica
Message #26 - 10/29/08 12:14 PM
The real issue is the fact that she is not qualified in any way, shape or form to be the leader of our nation. It's almost as if we pulled a random person off the street and said be president.

She is only running as VP. Please tell me what qualifications Obama posses to be POTUS. He is no more qualified then she is and he is running for the big boy chair.

[traelin0]

katlab58
Message #29 - 10/29/08 12:34 PM

Numerica, She is not just a "hockey mom", a person pulled off the street. She is a successful governor of the state of Alaska. Clinton had been a successful governor of Arkansas. Reagan had been a successful governor of California. With the exception of Bush 1 who had been an ambassador, you would have to go back to Gerald Ford to find a President who was not a Governor. She has her main street background to pull on, but if you think just a person pulled from the street could have brought down a seated governor for his own parties nomination, you are nuts. This woman is a political animal, just like the rest of them, she just comes from a common background. You know like, Harry Truman and Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Jackson. They were all criticized for their commoness.

[traelin0]

Back 2 Reality
Message #30 - 10/29/08 12:42 PM

SOTH

Still wondering about your God of choice? I know it's none of our business, but it may help us figure you out. There are sooo many to choose from though!

Say what you will, she still has more "Executive" experience than any of the candidates. When did this become a bad thing? I know it's only Alaska, and a monkey could probably run that state, but a door-to-door politics salesman with his own "religious skeletons", really?

[traelin0]

Seachange-on-the-horizon
Message #31 - 10/29/08 12:43 PM

Back 2 Reality
Message #17 - 10/29/08 11:23 AM
I see from your post that you claim to "believe in God" and "get wisdom from God", would you mind saying wich God that is?

I'm sure you can't/won't answer, but it's worth a shot.

That is really easy to answer...happy to oblige you. The God that humans can experience is the energy of the universe aka as the life force. The life force created us and we are part of it and not separate from it. Also, the life force gives us everything we need plus what ever it is we desire to create. As far as we are concerned God's gifts are limitless and are available to us when we are ready to receive them. That said, the easiest way to describe God is to just say that he is love and we were created to be both lover and beloved.


But of course God goes beyond what we can experience, simply because we are not capable of perceiving that part of him with our limited physical senses and tools. However, a part of us always remains connected with him because we are part of the life force. Moreover, that is not to say that we won't evolve in the future and come to perceive more of him. What is important to know, is that he does love us, even if the earth were destroyed by a giant meteor, because life would re-emerge again and we would be that life.


And regarding Jesus, he has demonstrated the power of transfiguration and has shown the path to our connection with the timeless. And he further teaches us the folly of letting psychological time rule our life, which gives the power of humans to enslave other humans. And the way we become enslaved, is to not focus on the present moment or on the timeless, but to sacrifice that connection and those moments. Instead we have become blind as we rely and focus on our past to predict and predetermine our future. As a consequence we ignore the available gifts that are right in front of us and could use if only we would open our eyes and see.


Sorry, God has nothing to do with the beliefs in witchcraft, Satan, voodoo or burning heretics at the stake. Those are all human ego created manifestations. And it is the human ego that is what creates evil.