Deleted
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 14:49:54 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 14:49:54 GMT -5
Have you noticed a lot of the younger soldiers are trying to get social security disability for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)? I personally know a few that are claiming they have it. Why were these Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers traumatized more than WWI, WWII, Korean, or Vietnam soldiers?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 14:52:06 GMT -5
I don't think they are more traumatized. We didn't acknowledge it before. My grandfather was a gunner in WWII. I am pretty sure he had it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 15:03:15 GMT -5
some of it might be over diagnosis--SOME OF IT
but just like ADD and things like that, we know more about that stuff now than "back in the day"
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hoops902
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 15:05:04 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Nov 29, 2013 15:05:04 GMT -5
Have you noticed a lot of the younger soldiers are trying to get social security disability for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)? I personally know a few that are claiming they have it. Why were these Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers traumatized more than WWI, WWII, Korean, or Vietnam soldiers? Not more traumatized, more educated in that you can get money for it. You think if tomorrow they announced anyone with sore eyes from looking at a computer screen could get you on SSDI that we wouldn't suddenly have a bunch of white collar workers trying to cash in? The more you advertise something which can get you paid, the more people will suddenly develop that thing you advertised.
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Deleted
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 15:09:38 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 15:09:38 GMT -5
At Thanksgiving dinner a nephew was telling me he has PTSD and is trying to get 100% SSDI. After asking him a few questions about it, it turns out he never witnessed combat. He was in Iraq though.
I don't know what to think about it.
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Deleted
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 15:16:18 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 15:16:18 GMT -5
At Thanksgiving dinner a nephew was telling me he has PTSD and is trying to get 100% SSDI. After asking him a few questions about it, it turns out he never witnessed combat. He was in Iraq though. I don't know what to think about it. Ya, that would make me go hmmm?
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Deleted
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 15:27:25 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 15:27:25 GMT -5
did nephew say what he thinks caused it? what was (is?) his job in the military
maybe although he didn't see "combat" maybe he saw dead / dismembered bodies or things like that?
I had a friend that didn't see combat, but he worked in the military morgue over there and he was having issues
although he could be exaggerating his conditions too.......
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hoops902
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 15:29:12 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Nov 29, 2013 15:29:12 GMT -5
To a lot of people PTSD seems to be a lot about "my time overseas sucked" or "I'm having difficulty transitioning now that I'm back". I think really comparable to ADHD where it's become a lot about "my kid has a lot of energy" or "my kid isn't great in school". There seems to be less tolerance for "uhhh yeah, sometimes things are just that way"
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hoops902
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 15:30:06 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Nov 29, 2013 15:30:06 GMT -5
did nephew say what he thinks caused it? what was (is?) his job in the military maybe although he didn't see "combat" maybe he saw dead / dismembered bodies or things like that? I had a friend that didn't see combat, but he worked in the military morgue over there and he was having issues although he could be exaggerating his conditions too....... I read stories about how people died as part of my job sometimes, maybe I can get some SSDI. Some of them are messed up.
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Deleted
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 15:35:30 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 15:35:30 GMT -5
did nephew say what he thinks caused it? what was (is?) his job in the military maybe although he didn't see "combat" maybe he saw dead / dismembered bodies or things like that? I had a friend that didn't see combat, but he worked in the military morgue over there and he was having issues although he could be exaggerating his conditions too....... I read stories about how people died as part of my job sometimes, maybe I can get some SSDI. Some of them are messed up. I really hope I am misreading the intent of your post........I know they say sometimes "tone" doesn't quite come across in written form
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hoops902
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 15:43:12 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Nov 29, 2013 15:43:12 GMT -5
I read stories about how people died as part of my job sometimes, maybe I can get some SSDI. Some of them are messed up. I really hope I am misreading the intent of your post........I know they say sometimes "tone" doesn't quite come across in written form My point is that if seeing dead people in a morgue qualifies people for PTSD, then lets extend that to reading horrible things. Isn't reading horrible things traumatic as well? Heck I've seen some messed up photos on the web...does that qualify? At some point we have to hold people accountable for "that part of your job just sucks". And at the point where seeing dead people in a morgue qualifies...I think we've opened up a LOT that qualifies. I've seen dead people before as part of a drunk driving campaign where we went and saw some messed up corpses...can I have some free money?
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Deleted
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 15:45:02 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 15:45:02 GMT -5
oy vey
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simser
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Post by simser on Nov 29, 2013 16:16:01 GMT -5
I think 2 reasons: 1) combat is different now (you have to worry about everything even if you're not in combat so it's more pervasive) and 2) it's being more talked about.
However, as someone diagnosed with PTSD from a non combat situation- it's not a pleasant disease and please don't think it's people being lazy. I can't handle some very minor situations (receiving flowers from a guy, installing a computer program) without completely breaking down. I don't know what those situations are so they are a surprise. My friend who has probable undiagnosed PTSD from combat- well he can't sleep through the night without nightmares that he is in an innocent situation that turns into him vs everything for survival. Every night. I can't imagine living like that.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 16:22:04 GMT -5
Hoops there is a differance between people accidently die in my line of work sometimes and people are trying to kill me and my coworkers all the time. There is also a differance between seeing one or two bodies and seeing tens or hundreds that are decimated.
I think it should cost a lot of money to ask people to join the military and be ready to die for us. It is something that should not come cheap. If the number of lives lost doesn't disuade the powers that be from reckless choices, maybe having a very high price tag will.
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Martivir
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 16:27:27 GMT -5
Post by Martivir on Nov 29, 2013 16:27:27 GMT -5
I think part of it is a better understanding of it. When my grandfather was in the Army it was considered part of the job. Some soldiers got shell shock and just were never the same. They got swept under the rug. Now my cousin was in Iraq and did see combat. He's doing his damnedest to function but there are days he can't. It's cost him his marriage and at times impedes his interaction with his kids. Another thing to remember is different people react different ways to the same thing. And in my opinion warfare is more brutal today. There had always been brutality but I don't think our grandparents had to deal with as much. Kids, women, both used to be kept from the front line and now are actively taking part. Due to technology we are not as limited in what we could do as before.
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milee
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 16:44:45 GMT -5
Post by milee on Nov 29, 2013 16:44:45 GMT -5
Hoops there is a differance between people accidently die in my line of work sometimes and people are trying to kill me and my coworkers all the time. There is also a differance between seeing one or two bodies and seeing tens or hundreds that are decimated.
Exactly. There is also a difference between seeing the dead bodies of people you don't know and seeing the dead bodies of people you served with and were close to. Even in the example above where the person with PTSD wasn't in direct combat, that person's life may have been regularly at risk and s/he may have seen the bodies - or parts of bodies - of friends s/he served with.
Is there fraud in the disability claim system? Yes. But without knowing the specifics of a case, it's very difficult to determine if an individual case is fraud or not when you only know a few sentences' worth of information.
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milee
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 16:52:43 GMT -5
Post by milee on Nov 29, 2013 16:52:43 GMT -5
Have you noticed a lot of the younger soldiers are trying to get social security disability for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)? I personally know a few that are claiming they have it. Why were these Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers traumatized more than WWI, WWII, Korean, or Vietnam soldiers? I'm not sure the Iraq or Afghanistan vets have been more traumatized. I think that we now have a name/label for things that have been a part of war for a long time. In WWI and WWII, the way people handled it was repressing it or quietly going crazy. Maybe because the economy was rebuilding at the time and there was such a demand for labor, the vets were able to quickly get jobs and families, making their reintegration a little easier than it is today. But I'm old enough to know plenty of Vietnam vets who had very serious mental issues and would still get incredibly emotional when they talked about their experiences. I haven't seen any statistics on it, but my guess is the number of Vietnam vets that came back with mental health issues would be comparable on a percent basis to the number of Iraq and Afghan vets with those issues.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Nov 29, 2013 17:08:34 GMT -5
Wow! It's only 2.5 weeks from all the -flag-waving and the "thank you for your service" to "dang they are out to mooch of MY hard earned money. I would've thought our good thoughts for the service men and women would last a little longer!
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cranberry49
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Post by cranberry49 on Nov 29, 2013 17:34:18 GMT -5
How about the fact that our soldiers are being deployed four or five times!!! That's different than it used to be. Too much deployment, too much stress, and fear of ones life every single day.. and bang!...you can easily snap. Unless one has been in these soldiers shoes, It would be impossible to know for sure what is going on in this persons mind!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 17:45:22 GMT -5
also there are a lot more people surviving than there used to be.....better field hospitals....advances in life-saving techniques....etc. I can't believe that you've decided it's not real for most people.
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thyme4change
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 17:53:11 GMT -5
Post by thyme4change on Nov 29, 2013 17:53:11 GMT -5
To a lot of people PTSD seems to be a lot about "my time overseas sucked" or "I'm having difficulty transitioning now that I'm back". I think really comparable to ADHD where it's become a lot about "my kid has a lot of energy" or "my kid isn't great in school". There seems to be less tolerance for "uhhh yeah, sometimes things are just that way" My neighbor was active duty in Iraq, and he said that most forward units have a 90%+ PTSD rate. Fortunately for him, he doesn't have to rely on what the general population knows about it. There are actual physical markers, such as he has high blood pressure and it is likely to stay high for the rest of his life. He was listing off other physical markers for it. It isn't just that they didn't like being in Iraq, it is a real thing.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Nov 29, 2013 18:06:02 GMT -5
My dad was in Vietnam in 68/69 and he STILL has to sleep with his bedroom door locked. He used to sometimes attack my mom in his sleep back when I was a kid. And yes, his daytime behavior is affected too. When he first came back from Vietnam he grabbed a tent and went and lived in the desert by himself for about a year as he couldn't cope with society. And yes, he was primarily a medic and not on the front lines. He only started getting disability money (I think 50%) about five years ago and only because his 2nd wife made him apply for it. He sees a therapist now - though I don't think it helps. As I get older and understand him more, I feel pretty comfortable saying that that war ruined him.
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HoneyBBQ
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 18:37:39 GMT -5
Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 29, 2013 18:37:39 GMT -5
It's like cancer. Nobody ever used to talk about it because it was shameful. Now PTSD is "out of the closet" so to speak. It's okay to have it. So you hear more about it.
Formerly SK - I'm sorry about your Dad. He must have seen some horrible, horrible things.
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grits
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 18:57:42 GMT -5
Post by grits on Nov 29, 2013 18:57:42 GMT -5
A former coworker tried to get disability through the VA because he once operated a computer that controlled a guided missile system. They told him to forget it. He wasn't shot at, and was many miles from the battle.
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The Home 6
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Post by The Home 6 on Nov 29, 2013 20:16:47 GMT -5
To a lot of people PTSD seems to be a lot about "my time overseas sucked" or "I'm having difficulty transitioning now that I'm back". I think really comparable to ADHD where it's become a lot about "my kid has a lot of energy" or "my kid isn't great in school". There seems to be less tolerance for "uhhh yeah, sometimes things are just that way" Hoops, I know you are the resident "devil's advocate", but PTSD is a helluva lot more than having difficulty transitioning back to life in the land of the big PX. PTSD is~ ~panic attacks at the sound of helicopters (or whatever, pick your trigger. Choppers are one of mine.) ~night terrors. ~telling your kids that Mom needs to take a little break in her room. So she can cry. Or scream into a pillow. ~getting irrationally startled at balloons popping or someone walking up behind you. ~never knowing what is going to make you remember and having no power to stop yourself from reliving every single second. ~guilt. Guilt. GUILT. You lived. Others died.
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Jaguar
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 20:54:28 GMT -5
Post by Jaguar on Nov 29, 2013 20:54:28 GMT -5
To a lot of people PTSD seems to be a lot about "my time overseas sucked" or "I'm having difficulty transitioning now that I'm back". I think really comparable to ADHD where it's become a lot about "my kid has a lot of energy" or "my kid isn't great in school". There seems to be less tolerance for "uhhh yeah, sometimes things are just that way" Hoops, I know you are the resident "devil's advocate", but PTSD is a helluva lot more than having difficulty transitioning back to life in the land of the big PX. PTSD is~ ~panic attacks at the sound of helicopters (or whatever, pick your trigger. Choppers are one of mine.) ~night terrors. ~telling your kids that Mom needs to take a little break in her room. So she can cry. Or scream into a pillow. ~getting irrationally startled at balloons popping or someone walking up behind you. ~never knowing what is going to make you remember and having no power to stop yourself from reliving every single second. ~guilt. Guilt. GUILT. You lived. Others died.
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Deleted
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 21:11:02 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 21:11:02 GMT -5
PTSD is~ ~panic attacks at the sound of helicopters (or whatever, pick your trigger. Choppers are one of mine.) ~night terrors. ~telling your kids that Mom needs to take a little break in her room. So she can cry. Or scream into a pillow. ~getting irrationally startled at balloons popping or someone walking up behind you. ~never knowing what is going to make you remember and having no power to stop yourself from reliving every single second. ~guilt. Guilt. GUILT. You lived. Others died. My drafting teacher in high school was in the thick of things in Vietnam. I don't think he was getting disability, but as part of his coping process, at set times in the semesters, he would tell us stories. There was a big list of titles we could choose from, we never really knew what we'd get. Some were hilarious, about his childhood and shocking and amazing things that happened overseas. Others were really grim and dark. One was where he completely lost his shit at a store and screamed for his wife to get down, because a grocery isle is tactically a perfect ambush location. I dunno. I do think there are scammers and people out for all they can qualify for with any program. But like others I do think that a lot of PTSD was just sort of "part of the package, deal with it" in earlier times. I'm kind of glad dad and his 3 brothers all volunteered early for Vietnam. They figured they'd be drafted anyway, so they might as well get it over with. Since it was so early in war, all of them were rejected for minor stuff. Dad had flat feet. Didn't stop him from heavy physical labor and endurance climbing up places like Half Dome and El Cap, but it caused him to be rejected from military service because they didn't need bodies at the time.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Nov 29, 2013 21:14:34 GMT -5
Have you noticed a lot of the younger soldiers are trying to get social security disability for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)? I personally know a few that are claiming they have it. Why were these Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers traumatized more than WWI, WWII, Korean, or Vietnam soldiers? No. It just wasn't diagnosed back then. And most of them that suffered either committed suicide or became alcoholics, drug addicts or homeless because they couldn't cope. My dad served in 2 wars as a fighter pilot and survived two airplane crashes and one of them was from being shot down. He did not talk about any of it with me. Maybe some with the boys but very little. I also worked with and have been friends with many Vietnam vets. They all had terrible issues and one guy I've known for about 9 years now still can't remember anything about the war. He even went in for evaluation/therapy and he can not remember one thing. They decided it was too traumatic for him to remember and that he should leave it alone. But the stories those that do remember have told me are horrific. Nothing like seeing your fellow soldiers being blown to bits or finding them dead with body parts missing and maggots eating out their eyes and guts not to mention the constant sound of things blowing up or being shot at day and night while starving, dehydrated and exhausted. I was also told about them having to decide whether to shoot children when they'd come up to them begging for candy because it was common enough that they were sent in with grenades, etc. to blow them up. If they suffered anything remotely like I've described above they deserve it. I don't wish it on anybody to experience anything like that. Ever.
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cronewitch
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 21:55:43 GMT -5
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Post by cronewitch on Nov 29, 2013 21:55:43 GMT -5
I don't know the current service people but may Viet Nam vets who were messed up for life. My cousin hasn't slept all night for 45 years he is 63 now. His first marriage failed and when he visits his parent he sits up all night in the living room. Last year when his dad died he couldn't stay for the funeral. He doesn't get disability but for years he used some illegal drugs to try to deal with PTSD. I think he is clean now and has always worked.
There is a place in the hills where many Nam vets have built shacks and live off the grid. Nice guys but all loners never able to get back to society. They do talk on CBs and visit each other, don't know if any get SSDI.
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ilovedolphins
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 22:11:15 GMT -5
Post by ilovedolphins on Nov 29, 2013 22:11:15 GMT -5
If they suffered anything remotely like I've described above they deserve it. I don't wish it on anybody to experience anything like that. Ever. I have a friend whose son has been the military for many years as a Ranger. He is a year older than my daughter. My friend tells me he doesn't even know his son anymore. He would rather be outside with his dog than inside with his family. He is very withdrawn around people. I wouldn't want to experience any of what those men and women experience over there.
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