Tiny
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 22:42:55 GMT -5
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Post by Tiny on Nov 29, 2013 22:42:55 GMT -5
PSTD is not just for veterans. A friend supposedly has been diagnosed with it after a car accident. Her car was T-Boned at an urban residential intersection (a low speed crash). She DROVE herself in her damaged car to the ER and was given a clean bill of health. Her car was repaired by insurance. She sued the other driver. She has PSTD from the trauma of this accident. She has a hard time driving or even being in a car because she relives the accident. She 'has' all of the symptoms outlined by The Home 6. I know my friend was upset by the accident and I don't doubt that it was traumatic to see your life flash before your eyes... but I sometimes wonder how fragile one must be to have to suffer thru what is now several years of sleepless nights, panic attacks, and hours of therapy from something that wasn't more than a fender bender. I don't think the airbags even deployed on her car. But then again our minds are tricky things and can latch on to some seriously stupid stuff.
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grits
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PTSD
Nov 29, 2013 23:37:37 GMT -5
Post by grits on Nov 29, 2013 23:37:37 GMT -5
I had PTSD after 3 hurricanes in 4 years. Taking care of thousands of peoples business while working in what looks like a war zone will do it to you. They tend to want to cling to you emotionally. It was a year before I could release the stress from Ike. I got really sick for about 7 months.
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whoisjohngalt
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PTSD
Nov 30, 2013 0:03:51 GMT -5
Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 30, 2013 0:03:51 GMT -5
I think part of it is a better understanding of it. When my grandfather was in the Army it was considered part of the job. Some soldiers got shell shock and just were never the same. They got swept under the rug. Now my cousin was in Iraq and did see combat. He's doing his damnedest to function but there are days he can't. It's cost him his marriage and at times impedes his interaction with his kids. Another thing to remember is different people react different ways to the same thing. And in my opinion warfare is more brutal today. There had always been brutality but I don't think our grandparents had to deal with as much. Kids, women, both used to be kept from the front line and now are actively taking part. Due to technology we are not as limited in what we could do as before. Ummm, not really. The whole WWII was fought in front of women and children. Not in US, of course, but all over Europe and former USSR. The stories my grandparents told me almost gave ME PTSD. You don't need ANY technology to witness horrors of war.
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cronewitch
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PTSD
Nov 30, 2013 2:39:38 GMT -5
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Post by cronewitch on Nov 30, 2013 2:39:38 GMT -5
Most war vets don't talk about it. The civil war was awful they amputated limbs, in the field, then they got infected and often died. All the wars are awful, killing people and seeing your friends killed, some can't ever recover and I don't know if any of them ever really get all the way past it. Viet Nam was different because of the northerners looking just like the southerners and using children as warriors. Wiping out villages even babies not knowing if they were really the enemy would be really hard. My ISO worked river boats for two tours of duty. He never knew if he killed anyone since he fired into the darkness, he wasn't as bad off as some.
The current wars seem less violent to me, more strategic violence less just mass killing. The mines in the roads and sneaky attacks could cause some PTSD.
Many of us have PTSD from other things like bad marriages. I can't stand having a man even turn sharply at me like he is mad and thinking about slapping me. It happened once and I cried the rest of the day. I couldn't ever live with a man who was angry and physical or threatening.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 30, 2013 5:10:36 GMT -5
75 Canadian soldiers have committed suicide on returning from Afghanistan since 2008. PTSD is a very real thing, and not just a ploy to get free money. They need support and psychiatric help, not denigration.
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Deleted
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PTSD
Nov 30, 2013 8:49:37 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 8:49:37 GMT -5
DH is the sanest person I know and back in NJ he slid on black ice and totaled his car, hitting 3 other cars in the process and totaling 2 of them. Fortunately, he got out of it with only a few broken wrist bones, but later the memories started coming back. At first he couldn't remember the accident at all, but as he started recalling details he also started having panic attacks. He'd wake up and not be able to get back to sleep, his heart would pound, at work he'd get restless and have to get up and pace.. Finally he went to a doc who said it was PTSD and gave him a prescription. It helped immensely and after he tapered off of it he was fine again. This was just from a single, non-fatal car accident with no mangled bodies.
So yes, I believe it's real, and it's been around since there have been wars. The "shell shock" term originated from the effects of having bombs explode around you on a regular basis- 24/7. A friend's husband was in Vietnam and ended up with a quadruple bypass when he was in his 40s. She's convinced that his experience in Vietnam ruined his health. A faculty member at my son's military HS who had served in Bosnia committed suicide when DS was attending the school.
So yes, PTSD exists. I hope we're giving our veterans all the support we can to help them get through it, but I'm not surprised that some just can't.
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8 Bit WWBG
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PTSD
Nov 30, 2013 9:30:42 GMT -5
Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Nov 30, 2013 9:30:42 GMT -5
I agree PTSD is very real and comes in many forms. I also get what hoops is saying about the continuous sliding of the yardstick. I wouldn't wish the horrors of war on anyone. The idea of not being able to sleep again or having to live in isolation seems like hell.
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Formerly SK
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PTSD
Nov 30, 2013 10:23:49 GMT -5
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Post by Formerly SK on Nov 30, 2013 10:23:49 GMT -5
I think the thing to remember is that war is hell. We somehow look lightly on it now because there are so few (American) deaths. But it destroys the lives of those who live, too. And yes, it will be VERY expensive to treat all these vets but they deserve to be treated. If we don't like those costs we shouldn't go into wars.
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dcmetrocrab
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PTSD
Nov 30, 2013 11:20:14 GMT -5
Post by dcmetrocrab on Nov 30, 2013 11:20:14 GMT -5
I think the thing to remember is that war is hell. We somehow look lightly on it now because there are so few (American) deaths. But it destroys the lives of those who live, too. And yes, it will be VERY expensive to treat all these vets but they deserve to be treated. If we don't like those costs we shouldn't go into wars. I agree. Sliding of the yardstick or otherwise, it is an associated cost. I am glad that at least this day in age, PSTD and other mental illnesses are now considered real, but there's still aways to go with general acceptance. The mind is a tricky and individual thing; no two people will react to a situation in the same way. If you aren't affected by a "fender bender" that involved requiring a trip to court and suing someone, consider yourself lucky. I know for sure that I am not made for war. Knowing my life is in danger at any moment for prolonged periods of time would melt me.
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The Home 6
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PTSD
Nov 30, 2013 13:26:28 GMT -5
Post by The Home 6 on Nov 30, 2013 13:26:28 GMT -5
dcmetro, it took me a long time to admit that I needed to talk to someone. At this point, a grand total of 4 people in my life know for sure (as in, I have told them point blank, or they have told me) that I have PTSD. Only one is family, and that's Big Sarge. I haven't even talked to my folks about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 8:21:08 GMT -5
Is PTSD real - absolutely Is PTSD diagnosis being abused by some - absolutely
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Dec 1, 2013 9:07:02 GMT -5
...:::"Is PTSD diagnosis being abused by some - absolutely":::...
An excellent way to put it. When you see some of the symptoms mentioned in this thread, there is no doubt someone deserves it. When someone brags about how he/she is going to use the diagnosis to get benefits, and has that "I'm going to beat the system" tone in their voice; then there is cause for skepticism.
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ilovedolphins
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PTSD
Dec 1, 2013 10:04:47 GMT -5
Post by ilovedolphins on Dec 1, 2013 10:04:47 GMT -5
I was in an abusive marriage for 7 years. After being out of it for 25 years there are still some things that bother me. If I see the start of a fight (even a verbal exchange) I have to get away from it. A couple of years ago there was a confrontation with a nasty co-worker and her boyfriend and me and when it was over I had a total breakdown. I couldn't stop crying for around 3 hours. I can't even imagine what our soldiers go through.
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Shooby
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PTSD
Dec 1, 2013 10:18:59 GMT -5
Post by Shooby on Dec 1, 2013 10:18:59 GMT -5
There really is no point to these kinds of discussions. Because you are not allowed to attempt to qualify anyone's suffering in any way. And, if you do, then you are being unsympathetic, blah, blah. Not sure how a life of disability is really "helping" anyone recover from PTSD. And, yes, there are indeed people who suffer from it. But, a life of barely surviving on disability seems the bare minimum of helping someone recover from that. I would think the goal would be having someone overcome it and thrive versus that but this is where we are as a society. But, if writing a check somehow makes us all feel better and pretend to have solved the problem, then so be it.
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violagirl
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PTSD
Dec 1, 2013 12:48:52 GMT -5
Post by violagirl on Dec 1, 2013 12:48:52 GMT -5
There has been recent news articles about PTSD service dogs. I am not exactly certain what the dogs do, I know they are trained to be wake people up who are having nightmares, and can tell when the people are going to have anxiety attacks and so will do things to redirect them. They also will circle around the person in a crowd creating space or lead people to exits when they are having a panic attack. It seems like PTSD symptoms are different for different people. A soldier may not want to enter a dark room, so the dog is trained to go in first and turn on the lights. And like any dog owner knows, they provide emotional support and give people a reason to get up in the morning.
I can understand soldiers having PTSD, because they are in kill or be killed mode. I can see that being hard to turn off. I don't get how a car accident could cause it. Then again, i have never been in any seriously traumatizing circumstances, so I find it hard to understand.
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Deleted
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PTSD
Dec 1, 2013 13:52:02 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2013 13:52:02 GMT -5
I would think the goal would be having someone overcome it and thrive versus that but this is where we are as a society. But, if writing a check somehow makes us all feel better and pretend to have solved the problem, then so be it. Totally agree, but as a society we don't really do a good job of treating mental illness. Several times over the years I've pretty much paid out of pocket for psychologists for DS and for me because between the high deductible and the large co-payment percentage (of "reasonable and customary", with R&C being about half what a good psych charges), there was very little coverage. Pills? Oh, yeah, they'll cover pills forever. There are times when pills are necessary to put your brain chemistry on the same level playing field as everyone else's, but talk therapy can do a lot (sometimes in connection with meds) and can sometimes eliminate the need for meds. DS was on Adderall for a couple of years till, with the help of his therapist, he learned how to manage his ADD without it. That was 4 years ago. But that's a whole 'nother thread.
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Shooby
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PTSD
Dec 1, 2013 14:30:31 GMT -5
Post by Shooby on Dec 1, 2013 14:30:31 GMT -5
I agree. I think we would be a whole lot further ahead to treat mental illness and stop pretending it doesn't exist. And, pills are fine but I think that giving pills should be done in COMBiNATION with psychotherapy and not an end unto itself. Yes, there might be some who are fine with pills alone but I think that should not be the first go to but talk therapy/counseling, etc first and/or in conjunction with.
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cronewitch
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PTSD
Dec 1, 2013 14:37:59 GMT -5
Post by cronewitch on Dec 1, 2013 14:37:59 GMT -5
I can understand soldiers having PTSD, because they are in kill or be killed mode. I can see that being hard to turn off. I don't get how a car accident could cause it. Then again, i have never been in any seriously traumatizing circumstances, so I find it hard to understand. Our bodies are designed for fight or flight mode when we sense danger. Everyone reacts differently to danger but can't really erase an experience just deal with it well or poorly. A 16 year old boy was in a accident as a passenger and couldn't get his nerve up to learn to drive, I assume in a year or two he could but not then. My ISO was in a rail road car of scrap metal when a electo magnet picked him up and dropped him breaking some bones. When he got back to work he had a fear of rail road cars of scrap metal since he was a scrap inspector he ended up quitting his job. Maybe with therapy he could have dealt with the fear but would probably always react to a crane swinging a magnet over him. Most of us deal by avoiding the situations but if you had a reaction to something like a loud noise you can't avoid them. Time and repeating the thing over and over might help with something like driving on a road where you were almost killed.
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vonna
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PTSD
Dec 1, 2013 18:18:58 GMT -5
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Post by vonna on Dec 1, 2013 18:18:58 GMT -5
There has been recent news articles about PTSD service dogs. I am not exactly certain what the dogs do, I know they are trained to be wake people up who are having nightmares, and can tell when the people are going to have anxiety attacks and so will do things to redirect them. They also will circle around the person in a crowd creating space or lead people to exits when they are having a panic attack. It seems like PTSD symptoms are different for different people. A soldier may not want to enter a dark room, so the dog is trained to go in first and turn on the lights. And like any dog owner knows, they provide emotional support and give people a reason to get up in the morning. I can understand soldiers having PTSD, because they are in kill or be killed mode. I can see that being hard to turn off. I don't get how a car accident could cause it. Then again, i have never been in any seriously traumatizing circumstances, so I find it hard to understand. These service dogs are amazing, and can make a huge difference for veterans suffering from PTSD, brain injuries, and other disabilities. My son did his senior project on service dogs for combat veterans, and was able to get to know a combat-injured veteran and his service dog quite well. DH and I now support our local organization that trains service dogs for veterans.
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swamp
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PTSD
Dec 1, 2013 18:37:16 GMT -5
Post by swamp on Dec 1, 2013 18:37:16 GMT -5
Do you ever really get over having your armored car get blown up by an IED and seeing your friend blown to bits?
Ues, it would be nice of we could not just cut these guys a check and make them productive citizens again, but sometimes it just doesn't work that way.
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Miss Tequila
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PTSD
Dec 2, 2013 9:26:54 GMT -5
Post by Miss Tequila on Dec 2, 2013 9:26:54 GMT -5
75 Canadian soldiers have committed suicide on returning from Afghanistan since 2008. PTSD is a very real thing, and not just a ploy to get free money. They need support and psychiatric help, not denigration. Wait...Canada has soldiers??
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hoops902
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PTSD
Dec 2, 2013 10:57:24 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Dec 2, 2013 10:57:24 GMT -5
To a lot of people PTSD seems to be a lot about "my time overseas sucked" or "I'm having difficulty transitioning now that I'm back". I think really comparable to ADHD where it's become a lot about "my kid has a lot of energy" or "my kid isn't great in school". There seems to be less tolerance for "uhhh yeah, sometimes things are just that way" Hoops, I know you are the resident "devil's advocate", but PTSD is a helluva lot more than having difficulty transitioning back to life in the land of the big PX. PTSD is~ ~panic attacks at the sound of helicopters (or whatever, pick your trigger. Choppers are one of mine.) ~night terrors. ~telling your kids that Mom needs to take a little break in her room. So she can cry. Or scream into a pillow. ~getting irrationally startled at balloons popping or someone walking up behind you. ~never knowing what is going to make you remember and having no power to stop yourself from reliving every single second. ~guilt. Guilt. GUILT. You lived. Others died. I agree with you, REAL PTSD is more. That's why I said to a lot of people it "seems like" these other lesser examples. Because there seems to be some thoughts among some people that if you're having a hard time transitioning, or if your time overseas sucked...you must have PTSD and therefore you must be on SSDI. Similar to how REAL ADHD is one thing, but people seem to like ot think that if you have lots of energy, or you're just not good in school...well then you must have ADHD and must need medication.
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hoops902
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PTSD
Dec 2, 2013 10:58:53 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Dec 2, 2013 10:58:53 GMT -5
::I can understand soldiers having PTSD, because they are in kill or be killed mode.::
One of the examples of someone seeking SSDI though was someone who'd never actually seen combat. So I think there's a distinction to make even among soldiers.
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tskeeter
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PTSD
Dec 3, 2013 17:34:30 GMT -5
Post by tskeeter on Dec 3, 2013 17:34:30 GMT -5
At Thanksgiving dinner a nephew was telling me he has PTSD and is trying to get 100% SSDI. After asking him a few questions about it, it turns out he never witnessed combat. He was in Iraq though. I don't know what to think about it. Ya, that would make me go hmmm? I tend to agree. If you build it (pay them), they will come. But I also remember that even the green zone could be pretty dicey at times and was the location of car bombings, ied's, and sacrificial bombers. I'd bet it would have been a kind of stressful place to work.
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hoops902
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PTSD
Dec 3, 2013 17:47:27 GMT -5
Post by hoops902 on Dec 3, 2013 17:47:27 GMT -5
::I'd bet it would have been a kind of stressful place to work.::
I hear Wall Street Trading is very stressful. I wonder if they get diagnosed with PTSD. Plenty of them have freakout breakdowns from doing what they do. Or how often other highly stressful jobs get diagnosed.
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NastyWoman
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PTSD
Dec 3, 2013 19:19:36 GMT -5
Post by NastyWoman on Dec 3, 2013 19:19:36 GMT -5
::I'd bet it would have been a kind of stressful place to work.:: I hear Wall Street Trading is very stressful. I wonder if they get diagnosed with PTSD. Plenty of them have freakout breakdowns from doing what they do. Or how often other highly stressful jobs get diagnosed. Wall Street traders are the IED that give the rest of us PTSD. You don't get to be the cause and ask for sympathy at the same time!
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The Home 6
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PTSD
Dec 4, 2013 0:55:11 GMT -5
Post by The Home 6 on Dec 4, 2013 0:55:11 GMT -5
The "T" in PTSD stands for "traumatic". Wall Street Trading may be stressful, but traumatic it is not, at least not in terms of the standards set forth by the DSM.
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Phoenix84
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PTSD
Dec 4, 2013 1:49:12 GMT -5
Post by Phoenix84 on Dec 4, 2013 1:49:12 GMT -5
Well, if a soldier has seen real combat, I wouldn't second guess them on that. But if they haven't, then I would wonder why they had PTSD myself.
I don't know. I don't think giving people permanent SSDI is the answer. I would think maybe some temporary assistance while they got treatment would be a better option.
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Phoenix84
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PTSD
Dec 4, 2013 2:00:04 GMT -5
Post by Phoenix84 on Dec 4, 2013 2:00:04 GMT -5
How about the fact that our soldiers are being deployed four or five times!!! That's different than it used to be. Too much deployment, too much stress, and fear of ones life every single day.. and bang!...you can easily snap. Unless one has been in these soldiers shoes, It would be impossible to know for sure what is going on in this persons mind! Yes, that may be a factor. Also, from what I understand, traditionally non combat units were regularly deployed, like the national guard.
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Nazgul Girl
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PTSD
Dec 4, 2013 6:02:10 GMT -5
Post by Nazgul Girl on Dec 4, 2013 6:02:10 GMT -5
I have some PTSD after a family tragedy occurred about 30 years ago, and I have never been the same. Compared to some people's trauma, mine was less serious, but it was still horrible. I guess it's possible that some people will fake it, but overall, it's nothing to really joke about. I'm better after some years of counseling, on and off, but nothing really ever takes it away.
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