Explain AA to me

[thyme4change]

I know nothing about addiction or recovery, and I'm asking this as a real question.  I assume that AA has it right, because they have been doing this a long time - but I don't completely follow the logic, and people here often give me some perspective.  So, here is my question...

When I want to stop a bad habit or make a change in my life, I replace one behavior with another behavior.  Like, if I eat too many cookies, I start by eating an apple when I really want to eat a bag of oreos.  When I would break up with a boyfriend, I would always rally my girlfriends to fill my time so I wouldn't get bored and call my ex- and do something stupid.  So, I don't understand the logic that says if you start AA you should not have any other goals and not start anything new.

Here is the story.  A friend of mine was working, and the kids were young and with a nanny.  Then he stopped working (I'm not sure if that was voluntary or not) and he was home with the kids, but they had pre-school for part of the day.  He drove the kids around, spent the afternoon with them, planned activities for the summer, made dinner, etc.  Then the kids started full time school.  I was always wondering what he did with the rest of the day, because the house was a mess.  As the kids got older and more independent, he still didn't get a job, nor did he seem to have any other hobbies or whatever.  Then we found out.  He spent the day drinking, and sleeping it off.  So, he goes to AA, and talks it all out, and says that he just feels so unsuccessful because he doesn't have a career and his dreams are squashed.  But, AA tells him not to even think about getting a job for a year, as he has to just concentrate on not drinking.  I understand the whole concept of stress and what-not.  But to take a guy who was so bored and disappointed with his life that he sat in his house and drank all day and tell him that he shouldn't do something that would make him proud - and oh, by the way, he still has to sit in his house all day - hours and hours and hours by himself, wallowing in his failure - but this time, don't drink.  How is that going to work?!  I asked if he could spend the time cleaning and fixing up the house and stuff, and he said that he has been warned against starting a "big project" like painting the living room, etc.  So, there he sits in the house - with nothing to do - just like 10 years ago when this all started.  Isn't insanity doing the same thing, but expecting a different outcome?  Why not encourage him to create a new life, and keep himself busy with things that discourage drinking?

[thyme4change]

(And BTW - when has painting the living room been considered a big project?)

[swamp]

He's full of shit. 

You don't start a big thing like a new career because you need to learn new coping skills and a whole new way of living, but it's not an excuse to shirk your responsibilities to your family.

[swamp]

Oct 18, 2013 10:17:20 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

(And BTW - when has painting the living room been considered a big project?)

It's not.

They also recommend finding sober constructive ways to pass time like crafts, reading, exercising, etc.  

[thyme4change]

Exercise, yes, but weight loss, no.  I've heard that from several people.

[Shooby]

  I am not sure of the wording or what they teach exactly.  I have known some people who went to AA.  And, they focus a lot on the gratitude of living and letting go of things past and things you can't change but living day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute and not succumbing to the inner demons of addiction.  And of course, until you heal yourself, you certainly would not want to insert yourself into a new and stressful situation.  But start with the immediate world around you.   Taking the dog for a walk, cleaning the kitchen, making the bed, etc.  And, yes using that time he would have spent drinking in other ways.
  So, I think his interpretation of "not starting any new projects" is suspect and he is using it in a way to continue to shirk his responsibilities.

[Shooby]

Oct 18, 2013 10:18:55 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 18, 2013 10:17:20 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

(And BTW - when has painting the living room been considered a big project?)

It's not.

They also recommend finding sober constructive ways to pass time like crafts, reading, exercising, etc.  

Or, anonymous message boarding? 

[swamp]

Oct 18, 2013 10:25:57 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Exercise, yes, but weight loss, no.  I've heard that from several people.

All the druggies in court seem to get fat when they get sober.  Probably because they're now eating instead of subsisting on vodka and oxys. 

[imawino]

Oct 18, 2013 10:18:13 GMT -5 swamp said:

He's full of shit. 

You don't start a big thing like a new career because you need to learn new coping skills and a whole new way of living, but it's not an excuse to shirk your responsibilities to your family.

They advise against making any major life changes at first.  They do not advise you sit on your ass and twiddle your thumbs and not contribute to your home life.   

He is either lying to suit his purposes or he misinterpreted what he was told.

[Taxman10]

if anyone can explain AA...it's Imawino...

[Cookies Galore]

My father-in-law has been sober 25 years and still attends and hosts (tries to, ALS limits him severely) regular AA meetings. I don't believe in it. It's just a way for him to deflect any personal responsibility for his life because he is "powerless over his disease." He's always going to be an addict, he just traded booze and drugs for sky diving and computers and printers. But he's powerless after all!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

So, he goes to AA, and talks it all out, and says that he just feels so unsuccessful because he doesn't have a career and his dreams are squashed. But, AA tells him not to even think about getting a job for a year, as he has to just concentrate on not drinking

I think he misinterpreted. Is using it an excuse.  Or his AA spponse is full of shit. You're not supposed to stop living your life and shirk your responsbilities.   Life has to continue on.

You're just not supposed to do something drastic like going to law school for example.  Don't be making huge life changes because deciding not to be an active addict is already a huge life change.

If he's that bad that he can't do anything beyond not drink then he should be in an in patient rehab facility.

[swamp]

Oct 18, 2013 10:42:30 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

My father-in-law has been sober 25 years and still attends and hosts (tries to, ALS limits him severely) regular AA meetings. I don't believe in it. It's just a way for him to deflect any personal responsibility for his life because he is "powerless over his disease." He's always going to be an addict, he just traded booze and drugs for sky diving and computers and printers. But he's powerless after all!

LOL, he missed the point too. 

part of it is atonement for past transgressions and apologies to the right people. 

[swamp]

1. Surrender. (Capitulation to hopelessness.)

2. Hope. (Step 2 is the mirror image or opposite of step 1. In step 1 we admit that alcohol is our higher power, and that our lives are unmanageable. In step 2, we find a different Higher Power who we hope will bring about a return to sanity in management of our lives.)

3. Commitment. (The key word in step 3 is decision.)

4. Honesty. (An inventory of self.)

5. Truth. (Candid confession to God and another human being.)

6. Willingness. (Choosing to abandon defects of character.)

7. Humility. (Standing naked before God, with nothing to hide, and asking that our flawsin His eyesbe removed.)

8. Reflection. (Who have we harmed? Are we ready to amend?)

9. Amendment. (Making direct amends/restitution/correction, etc..)

10. Vigilance. (Exercising self-discovery, honesty, abandonment, humility, reflection and amendment on a momentary, daily, and periodic basis.)

11. Attunement. (Becoming as one with our Father.)

12. Service. (Awakening into sober usefulness

[Abby Normal]

They don't want you substituting one addiction for another.  But it doesn't mean sit around all day and do nothing.

[imawino]

Oct 18, 2013 10:42:30 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

My father-in-law has been sober 25 years and still attends and hosts (tries to, ALS limits him severely) regular AA meetings. I don't believe in it. It's just a way for him to deflect any personal responsibility for his life because he is "powerless over his disease." He's always going to be an addict, he just traded booze and drugs for sky diving and computers and printers. But he's powerless after all!

If he's been sober for 25 years AA is working for him. 

[greeniis10]

I agree with the other posters: either he misunderstood or is being misled.  Could be a case of self-sabotage, too.  Definitely good for him for taking the first steps: admitting the problem, going to AA, etc.!  But, you will only change if you WANT to. 

Just because he is TOLD not to do things at home doesn't mean he should just follow those instructions arbitrarily.  He has to help himself, too, and if keeping busy helps, then do it!  Not all rules apply to everyone.

[greeniis10]

Oct 18, 2013 10:50:43 GMT -5 imawino said:

Oct 18, 2013 10:42:30 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

My father-in-law has been sober 25 years and still attends and hosts (tries to, ALS limits him severely) regular AA meetings. I don't believe in it. It's just a way for him to deflect any personal responsibility for his life because he is "powerless over his disease." He's always going to be an addict, he just traded booze and drugs for sky diving and computers and printers. But he's powerless after all!

If he's been sober for 25 years AA is working for him. 

Yep, and it seems to work for him HIS way.  I don't really get the "powerless" aspect of it, but if that works for him then by all means use it!  AA sets guidelines, but you have to find a way to tailor it (within reason, of course) to your own situation. 

Surely, if the guy in the OP clearly identified his reason for drinking as boredom then he should definitely find productive ways to use his time.  JMHO. 

[bean29]

I know a few people who are recovered alcoholics for many years...but I know very little about the recovery itself. 

I agree that someone that is recovered for 25 years found something that works for them.

I have a coworker that is sober for at lease 10 years and  is an AA group leader and my BIL - I only recently realized he is a group leader.  I don't know how long he is sober and I do have the impression that he may have recently "fallen off the wagon" but I think he got right back with the program.

AA works.  I know people even my BIL that have gone to AA and found other alcholics to go on a drinking binge with, but I think when people hit bottom, the AA formula is a formula that really helps people find the path to sobriety.

[Cookies Galore]

Oct 18, 2013 10:50:43 GMT -5 imawino said:

Oct 18, 2013 10:42:30 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

My father-in-law has been sober 25 years and still attends and hosts (tries to, ALS limits him severely) regular AA meetings. I don't believe in it. It's just a way for him to deflect any personal responsibility for his life because he is "powerless over his disease." He's always going to be an addict, he just traded booze and drugs for sky diving and computers and printers. But he's powerless after all!

If he's been sober for 25 years AA is working for him. 

The sobriety is a good thing but the man is a trainwreck. Like my FIL and the person in the OP, there are a lot of people who use AA as a crutch to shirk personal responsibility. But I'm extremely biased.

[swamp]

Oct 18, 2013 11:29:43 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

Oct 18, 2013 10:50:43 GMT -5 imawino said:

If he's been sober for 25 years AA is working for him. 

The sobriety is a good thing but the man is a trainwreck. Like my FIL and the person in the OP, there are a lot of people who use AA as a crutch to shirk personal responsibility. But I'm extremely biased.

AA can't stop someone from being an asshole.

[Deleted]

Oct 18, 2013 10:33:49 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 18, 2013 10:25:57 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Exercise, yes, but weight loss, no.  I've heard that from several people.

All the druggies in court seem to get fat when they get sober.  Probably because they're now eating instead of subsisting on vodka and oxys. 

So true. I have a neighbor with an addiction problem. We can always tell when hes in rehab because he gets fat. 
He thins out often which means he is back on the dope/booze.

[Deleted]

Oct 18, 2013 11:31:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 18, 2013 11:29:43 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

The sobriety is a good thing but the man is a trainwreck. Like my FIL and the person in the OP, there are a lot of people who use AA as a crutch to shirk personal responsibility. But I'm extremely biased.

AA can't stop someone from being an asshole.

No but they have been known to promote assholedness.
Each AA group is only as good as its leader.

[swamp]

Oct 18, 2013 11:37:00 GMT -5 @joey said:

Oct 18, 2013 11:31:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

AA can't stop someone from being an asshole.

No but they have been known to promote assholedness.
Each AA group is only as good as its leader.

I thought they took turns being leader?

[Cookies Galore]

Oct 18, 2013 11:31:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 18, 2013 11:29:43 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

The sobriety is a good thing but the man is a trainwreck. Like my FIL and the person in the OP, there are a lot of people who use AA as a crutch to shirk personal responsibility. But I'm extremely biased.

AA can't stop someone from being an asshole.

Very true. AA is definitely not for everyone, especially for those apt to get stuck on the first step. I see the "it's not my fault" thinking in the OP.

[swamp]

Oct 18, 2013 11:37:57 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

Oct 18, 2013 11:31:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

AA can't stop someone from being an asshole.

Very true. AA is definitely not for everyone, especially for those apt to get stuck on the first step. I see the "it's not my fault" thinking in the OP.

I agree with you there. 

[imawino]

Oct 18, 2013 11:29:43 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

Oct 18, 2013 10:50:43 GMT -5 imawino said:

If he's been sober for 25 years AA is working for him. 

The sobriety is a good thing but the man is a trainwreck. Like my FIL and the person in the OP, there are a lot of people who use AA as a crutch to shirk personal responsibility. But I'm extremely biased.

Listen, I'm not an AA expert or anything, but I think AA's goal is to get and keep people sober.  As far as I know they don't claim to change your entire personality into someone that everyone will like.  My point is just that you shouldn't decide not to "believe in" AA because you don't like the man that your FIL is.  If AA has helped him stay sober for 25 years that is something to believe in, regardless of whether your FIL is a charmer or not.  For all you know, he would be even LESS likable if he was drunk all the time. 

[Deleted]

Oct 18, 2013 11:37:53 GMT -5 swamp said:

Oct 18, 2013 11:37:00 GMT -5 @joey said:

No but they have been known to promote assholedness.
Each AA group is only as good as its leader.

I thought they took turns being leader?

They do take turns chairing meetings but there is often an over all leader/organizer/mentor involved.

[cronewitch]

One thing they say when fighting your demons is not to get too hungry, too tired, too angry. So starting a new stressful career might be bad but getting a job where you can still get a full night sleep and regular meals isn't bad.

Also most people need a whole new set of friends and maybe family. You can't go to the bar with your drinking buddies and have a soda. It might work the first week but soon you justify you can have just one and your buddies want you back drinking, your making them uncomfortable. Just one will actually hurt you.

[Deleted]

Oct 18, 2013 11:55:00 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

One thing they say when fighting your demons is not to get too hungry, too tired, too angry. So starting a new stressful career might be bad but getting a job where you can still get a full night sleep and regular meals isn't bad.

Also most people need a whole new set of friends and maybe family. You can't go to the bar with your drinking buddies and have a soda. It might work the first week but soon you justify you can have just one and your buddies want you back drinking, your making them uncomfortable. Just one will actually hurt you.

It is a lifestyle change for certain.