imawino
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Oct 11, 2013 18:49:36 GMT -5
Post by imawino on Oct 11, 2013 18:49:36 GMT -5
I think you were reading into things quite as much if not more than you accuse him of... Which is why the women wars will persisting guess... Did you read it? Did he NOT say the stuff about zombies, revering, pedestals, society coming apart at the seams, everything to everybody, work being neither liberating nor empowering? Because I'm pretty sure I wasn't reading INTO it, simply READING it. I don't care if you agree with him, but he literally typed that stuff out. My reading comprehension is just fine, generally.
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Deleted
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Oct 11, 2013 20:31:24 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2013 20:31:24 GMT -5
I did read it, yesterday... It was all over facebook. No, he didnt really say what you are interjecting. Yes he said mothers should be put on pedestals and revered. I don't have issue with that, I guess ... I don't think it's automatic, but I know lots of moms who deserve the accolades. I certainly think they shouldn't be degraded or looked down on... He said for him a job wasn't liberating or empowering. "Having a job is necessary for some — it is for me — but it isn’t liberating or empowering." When he said she was everything to everyone, it was the culminating sentence of a paragraph where he stated she was everything to his household, his children and himself... You think if all moms quit doing what they do, society wouldn't fall apart? You think mothers are that dispensable? I just don't see what you are reading...
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 11, 2013 20:41:53 GMT -5
I kinda think we might all, as moms, get our britches in a bunch over this for one reason: When you have a child you suddenly (it seems) realize you've just embarked on the most important journey of your life. This is the thing you'll do that will count for more than anything else. You're about to raise another human being and you want to do it right! You want that little being to grow up to be happy, productive, healthy, intelligent, and wise. The responsibility for all of that weighs pretty darned heavily when you think about it. No wonder moms are stressed and feel inadequate!
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toomuchreality
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Oct 12, 2013 5:50:08 GMT -5
Post by toomuchreality on Oct 12, 2013 5:50:08 GMT -5
I'm kinda surprised that people need this pointed out, actually. Women are more in their heads than men are, generally. I think that has a lot to do with it. I think it does EVERYONE good, to hear a compliment once in awhile, no matter how small or insignificant the reason. -I need to go sleep for a bit. Catch you all later!
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happyscooter
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Oct 12, 2013 7:24:43 GMT -5
Post by happyscooter on Oct 12, 2013 7:24:43 GMT -5
chocolate lover, I would say the same thing the friend said. why does it bother you?
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 12, 2013 9:14:15 GMT -5
Anyone who doubts the amount of judgment that is heaped on moms should read the thread about proof that abuse doesn't just happen to trailer trash. Based on the fact that the mother wasn't married to the father, the father is wealthy and very little else, several posters concluded that the mom is completely at fault that another person killed her child and that she is a trashy whore that only had a child so she could extort the wealthy father. Nice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2013 14:32:27 GMT -5
If you work, you're neglecting your child. If you stay home, you're a moocher with no sense of identity. If you take time for yourself, you miss your child. If you don't cook healthy dinners, you are malnourishing your family. If your house isn't clean you're a slob. If you aren't back in your pre-pregnancy jeans, you're a fat slob. If you are back in your pre-pregnancy jeans, it's because you ignored your child to exercise. Need I go on? LOL- no, I think you covered most of it! We're all expected to be perfect. Remember the stupid perfume commercial with the jingle, "I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan.. and never, never let you forget you're a man"? I try not to be too judgmental of other mothers. I didn't do a perfect job (although, bless him, he said to the people attending his wedding that I was the greatest mother in the world) and every kid is different. Last week one of my staff took her 8-month old to the doc because, after she and her DH had had 24-hour viruses, guess what- the baby was feverish and not her usual sunny self. I would have given it another day to see if it went away on its own, but... I kept my mouth shut. Sure enough, the baby was fine and we were all happy. It also occurred to me that if she hadn't taken the baby to the doctor and the baby had gotten worse, she would have been open to criticism for that, too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 7:08:57 GMT -5
Women can be so judgemental of other women. And I think, knowing that, we sit there and think everyone is judging us (cause a lot of us are judging them in our mind, even if we don't say anything). I felt pretty horrible for a while around the birth of DD. And you hear all these stories....isnt being pregnant the most awesome thing ever? A human life! Umm...yeah, it kinda sucked, honestly. And then you hear about people saying "I knew the instant I laid eyes on my child that she was the love of my life" or something like that. You want to know what I said when they showed her to me? "Why is she grey?" I didn't cry, I didn't feel bonded. And I didn't feel bonded for weeks. Then breast feeding....it's the most natural thing in the world, it's so great, it's the best thing for baby. Yeah, we'll, it doesn't work for all of us. So even though, medically, I wasn't able to do it, I still felt incredibly guilty. Those first few weeks were rough. I would look at her and think, "OMG, what have I done? Is there a return policy?" Even now, when she mostly sleeps through the night, I sometimes think, as she wakes up at 4am and starts yelling, not because she's unhappy but because she wants to hear herself, "for the love of god will you please SHUT the F UP!!!" When i dropped her off at daycare the first day, they said it was OK if I cried, or if I wanted to call in a few times. Yeah, I was fine. I left the parking lot, went home and took a 4 hour nap. Didn't feel the need to call. If something went wrong, they knew where I was. Does that make me a horrible mom? It's supposed to be the most amazing thing you have ever done, and a lot of the time it is awe inspiring, but I don't think most people feel that way 100% of the time. I'm tired. I work (and I couldn't WAIT to get back from maternity leave...yeah, another thing to feel guilty about), I make sure the bills are paid. I cook (sometimes) and clean (not enough) and plan meals and make sure we have enough of whatever it is we might need on hand. I can't do everything 100% , 100% of the time. And that makes me feel bad about myself. But then I have a glass of wine, take a sleeping pill, hand the monitor to DH and forget about it.
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zibazinski
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Oct 14, 2013 7:22:21 GMT -5
Post by zibazinski on Oct 14, 2013 7:22:21 GMT -5
Nope, I was one of those bad moms. I hated every second of being pregnant, was sick most of the time, and labor, childbirth and the after also sucked. Kids not sleeping sucked, teething sucked. I was glad to go back to work and get a break from it all so I was a terrible mom. Thank GOD I had an excuse of that I needed to work or I'd be on welfare and that is worse than being a working mom, well, at that point in time anyway. My whole world did not revolve around my kids. They were never breast fed, and I know DSs caregiver gave him some cereal in his formula extremely early. Probably so the little bugger would sleep for more than an hour at a time. Even when they got older, we lived in a family neighborhood so they played outside all day long, coming in for food and potty breaks. Maybe I raised them to be independent, maybe I raised them to not be close knit. Don't know. I seemed to do a good job and they seemed happy until the divorce. I'm sorry about that but it wasn't my idea but it was best for all of us anyway because their father wasn't a good person anymore and being around him wasn't healthy for all of us. We didn't have the money that we had pre divorce but they didn't have to live in a ghetto or change schools, either. There was money for their stuff they needed for school and all. I worked 2 other jobs besides teaching but they weren't hugely time consuming either and they added to the coffers. So financially, we were okay. But I still worked and worked until DD graduated high school. I wish I'd have stayed working now because two of the reason I retired were gone within 6 months. But no one can foresee the future.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Oct 14, 2013 8:44:49 GMT -5
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 14, 2013 8:44:49 GMT -5
You want to know what I said when they showed her to me? "Why is she grey?"
Don't feel bad. I was so hyped up on adereline and stuff that I can barely remember what went on in the minutes between giving birth and my parents coming in to see Gwen. My first thought was "Now I totally understand why my lab mice eat their babies if I agitate her shortly after birth". I was wound tighter than a two cent watch.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Oct 14, 2013 8:49:20 GMT -5
Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 14, 2013 8:49:20 GMT -5
...:::"The only parenting constant is that you're doing it wrong.":::...
Love it! The entire consumer industry would collapse if we didn't feel bad about ourselves!
...:::"My first thought was "Now I totally understand why my lab mice eat their babies if I agitate her shortly after birth".":::...
Baby! The OTHER other white meat!
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giramomma
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Oct 14, 2013 8:57:56 GMT -5
Post by giramomma on Oct 14, 2013 8:57:56 GMT -5
You want to know what I said when they showed her to me? "Why is she grey?"
Don't feel bad. I was so hyped up on adereline and stuff that I can barely remember what went on in the minutes between giving birth and my parents coming in to see Gwen. My first thought was "Now I totally understand why my lab mice eat their babies if I agitate her shortly after birth". I was wound tighter than a two cent watch. I was in active labor for 24 hours, which resulted in my first kid having a very pointy head. My first thought was, "OMG. My kid looks like a ConeHead from Saturday Night Live." I didn't bond with my oldest for a really long time, actually. He was the one most upset that I went away for the weekend. Really, I only had one out of my three kids that I fell in love with instantly..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 9:02:14 GMT -5
You want to know what I said when they showed her to me? "Why is she grey?"
Don't feel bad. I was so hyped up on adereline and stuff that I can barely remember what went on in the minutes between giving birth and my parents coming in to see Gwen. My first thought was "Now I totally understand why my lab mice eat their babies if I agitate her shortly after birth". I was wound tighter than a two cent watch. My other thought was, OMG I feel so much better. It's like you just took the best poop of your LIFE. And I had a pretty good labor and delivery. I had the epidural and didn't have a lot of pain. I was just ready for that thing to be OUT. And then the doc pushed on my stomach for the placenta and I was like "holy crap doc, that hurts!!" im so glad that it was just DH and me. Our families would have been appalled at how I reacted.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 14, 2013 9:06:58 GMT -5
My other thought was, OMG I feel so much better. It's like you just took the best poop of your LIFE
Nurses cracked up because as soon as she popped out I said "OMG I feel so much f-ing better now!"
I also did not do the "place baby on chest right away to bond" thing. I wanted a few moments to myself to process what just happened.
In Pregnancy Week by Week they say that whole "bonding ASAP" thing is bullshit. The memory cortext is one of the last areas in the brain to develop and does most of it outside the womb. Babies have no short term memory when they are born. So it doesn't matter if you hold them 5 seconds after they are born, they won't remember it 10 seconds later. So you're not "failing to bond" with your kid.
Besides it takes on average 6-8 weeks for your body to convert the hormones from pregnancy and birth into the long term hormones needed to bond you to the baby.
I wish more moms knew that so they'd quit being guilted by all the pop culture bonding theory garbage.
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Deleted
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Oct 14, 2013 9:10:51 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 9:10:51 GMT -5
I also did not do the "place baby on chest right away to bond" thing. I wanted a few moments to myself to process what just happened. You monster.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Oct 14, 2013 9:14:35 GMT -5
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 14, 2013 9:14:35 GMT -5
To top it off DH and my dad were the first ones to hold her. My mom had to remind my dad I hadn't gotten to hold her yet, we didn't think he'd give her back for awhile there.
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Deleted
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Oct 14, 2013 9:45:56 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 9:45:56 GMT -5
I also did not do the "place baby on chest right away to bond" thing. I wanted a few moments to myself to process what just happened. You monster. They did the whole place baby on chest thing to me and I don't think I touched her. She was grey and I was a little overwhelmed at the time...I don't think it matters from a bonding perspective.
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Chocolate Lover
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Oct 14, 2013 10:21:11 GMT -5
Post by Chocolate Lover on Oct 14, 2013 10:21:11 GMT -5
chocolate lover, I would say the same thing the friend said. why does it bother you? If you're asking about the Facebook drama queen I was talking about it's because one: she's an in law so she's messing with family and two: regardless of family or not, her kids are not happy, they're just hoping mom will be happy enough to sit still for 2 minutes. Her latest loser in still in jail. And the last time she was with him, he abused her. That could be what he's in jail for. But it's ok, he's taking court ordered DV classes, he really wants to change... Uh huh..... That's why it bothers me. If you weren't asking about that, oops. ETA: and all this boyfriend drama is going on between bounces back and forth to my BIL, who she is still actually married to. (yeah, he annoys me too, but he's not broadcasting nearly as much of this crap on FB as she is)
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 14, 2013 10:47:18 GMT -5
I've never read anything that says skin to skin right away affects the baby bonding to mom. It is supposed to help mom.bond to baby (and moms body helps regulate the babys temperature). And it definitely worked for me so I do recommend it. I never saw anything that said the kid would never love me if I couldn't do skin to skin.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Oct 14, 2013 10:52:25 GMT -5
I've never read anything that says skin to skin right away affects the baby bonding to mom. It is supposed to help mom.bond to baby (and moms body helps regulate the babys temperature). And it definitely worked for me so I do recommend it. I never saw anything that said the kid would never love me if I couldn't do skin to skin. You obviously aren't reading the right articles.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 10:53:47 GMT -5
I've never read anything that says skin to skin right away affects the baby bonding to mom. It is supposed to help mom.bond to baby (and moms body helps regulate the babys temperature). And it definitely worked for me so I do recommend it. I never saw anything that said the kid would never love me if I couldn't do skin to skin. The kid will never love you for different reasons, like not letting them watch TV when they want to, not letting them go out with their friends, not letting them throw keggers at your house...
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Oct 14, 2013 10:58:36 GMT -5
imawino - I read the Matt what's his name's post the same way you did. And maybe I read it that way because in my house, DH is the primary caregiver, and his post gave fathers no agency. Per his post, as long as the money came from somewhere, his existence doesn't matter to his kids. Mom is everything. And he makes the comment at the end about if society is destroyed it's because we didn't revere moms and kids enough. Once again, we're taking dads out of the picture, discounting all the amazing things dads do. That same thing could be just as easily said, if society is destroyed it's because we didn't revere parents and kids enough, or families enough, and it would convey a message that speaks to more people. But I've read this guy's stuff before. He knows exactly what words he is choosing and why.
At the same time, I also don't find the question "What do you do all day" offensive, or the comment "oh fun" offensive. And I say that because I have a job and people ask me what I do all day all the time. During the summer, I asked C what he and pop tart did during the day, too, because every day is not the same. I've also had people comment "oh fun" when I've taken a new job, or when I decided to go back to school full time for my masters while working full time. I don't assume anyone who makes that comment thinks that I'm not working hard. I think they think how exciting for me that I'm starting a new adventure, a new phase in my life. He and his wife are at a point where she can choose to stay home with their twins. That's an exciting new adventure for her, and I don't think "oh fun" is an insult.
But, without those comments, he wouldn't have had a mommy war blog to write, and mommy war blog posts bring a lot of traffic. Plus, he gets to be the guy who is sticking up for his wife, who truly appreciates everything she does. (Personally, I'd rather he skip a blog post and be the one to rock the kid to sleep that night, but if this is the dynamic that works for his marriage, it's not my place to judge.)
As for the OP, one of the reasons we need to tell our friends that we're being good moms (or good parents in general) is because no one else will. In general, the media assaults us with all the ways we could mess up our kids, from microwaving to tupperware to needing to disinfect everything anyone has ever touched ever or NOT. There are commercials that tell us that discerning moms only use this one kind of peanut butter (choosy moms choose Jiff), and an entire body of literature out there telling us ow we are messing up our children by working, not working, etc.
There is no body of literature, no scientific study on "the effect of working fathers on toddlers" but there's more than you can read on working moms.
When you go to large support groups, or even online support groups, many people feel more free than they should to judge. They will happily tell you you are being a bad mom.
And just like at a paycheck job, if all you ever hear is how you are doing it wrong, you are miserable and probably become worse at it, only hearing that you are being a pad parent helps no one, not you, not your kid. Positive feedback is a necessity. We're finally realizing this holds as true for parenting as it does for anything else. So there is a movement to remind people to give that positive feedback. So yes, look at your friends and tell them they are good parents. It will do them good, which means it will do their kids good. And it might even do you some good too, to see the positive in the world and call it out.
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swamp
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Oct 14, 2013 11:00:21 GMT -5
Post by swamp on Oct 14, 2013 11:00:21 GMT -5
I got the vibe that Matt Whatsisname is kind of a douche too.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Oct 14, 2013 11:03:37 GMT -5
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 14, 2013 11:03:37 GMT -5
Per his post, as long as the money came from somewhere, his existence doesn't matter to his kids. Mom is everything. He must be SuziQ's husband. As far as the importance of dads, you'll have to dig for it outside of pop culture but there is a growing body of information on the importance of fathers and the biological changes fathers undergo. Turns out men change hormonally just like women and are also susceptible to PPD. Unfortunately this body of lit is pressing up against decades of stereotypes and reinforced societal norms/expectations about women and parenthood.
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muttleynfelix
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Oct 14, 2013 11:25:51 GMT -5
Post by muttleynfelix on Oct 14, 2013 11:25:51 GMT -5
My other thought was, OMG I feel so much better. It's like you just took the best poop of your LIFE. Yep! Both kids, I popped out the baby and instantly felt better. DD was even better because I got to have a Mt. Dew as soon as she was born (I had GD with her, didn't with DS)! I hated being pregnant both times. Second time was worse of course. Having GD was a pain although controllable. I can honestly say that I have not missed being pregnant one bit. I am so glad that stage of my life is done.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 14, 2013 11:28:20 GMT -5
My other thought was, OMG I feel so much better. It's like you just took the best poop of your LIFE. Yep! Both kids, I popped out the baby and instantly felt better. DD was even better because I got to have a Mt. Dew as soon as she was born (I had GD with her, didn't with DS)! I hated being pregnant both times. Second time was worse of course. Having GD was a pain although controllable. I can honestly say that I have not missed being pregnant one bit. I am so glad that stage of my life is done. I found pregnancy to be miserable and I wanted to smack everyone who made some comment along the lines of "Oh, this is the most magical time of your life, you should be enjoying every second." I'm sorry, but I found heartburn, hemorrhoids, sciatica, insomnia, itchy skin, constipation, and daily vomiting to be the least fun part of my life.
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shanendoah
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Oct 14, 2013 11:32:28 GMT -5
Post by shanendoah on Oct 14, 2013 11:32:28 GMT -5
I determined in advance that I would hate being pregnant, so decided to just skip over that step entirely. Regrets? ZERO
(But I feel compelled to add, since this is a mommy wars thread, that this was the right choice for me. I am in no way judging how anyone else chose to bring children into their lives. I have mad respect for all parents. Everyone on this thread who is a parent is a good parent.)
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Oct 14, 2013 11:39:18 GMT -5
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 14, 2013 11:39:18 GMT -5
who made some comment along the lines of "Oh, this is the most magical time of your life, you should be enjoying every second."
I wanted to kill my SIL. I'd been discharged only a few hours before and she told me I'll be wanting to try for another one ASAP because I'd realize being pregnant is so awesome.
My MIL laid into her over that one.
Entire time we were there she followed me around insisting I wanted a second one.
I told DH I don't want her knowing we're considering trying for a second, I don't want to hear it. We're also going home straight from the hospital this time even if I have to drive myself. I'm not playing family reunion and being asked when we're going to start on #3!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 14, 2013 11:39:35 GMT -5
I've never read anything that says skin to skin right away affects the baby bonding to mom. It is supposed to help mom.bond to baby (and moms body helps regulate the babys temperature). And it definitely worked for me so I do recommend it. I never saw anything that said the kid would never love me if I couldn't do skin to skin. It calmed my baby down...I loved the skin to skin contact...I also loved being pregnant. I'm a freak As the mom of an almost 15 year daughter, I can tell you that the baby and toddler stages were awesome compared to the teenage years
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swamp
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Oct 14, 2013 11:41:31 GMT -5
Post by swamp on Oct 14, 2013 11:41:31 GMT -5
I've never read anything that says skin to skin right away affects the baby bonding to mom. It is supposed to help mom.bond to baby (and moms body helps regulate the babys temperature). And it definitely worked for me so I do recommend it. I never saw anything that said the kid would never love me if I couldn't do skin to skin. It calmed my baby down...I loved the skin to skin contact...I also loved being pregnant. I'm a freak As the mom of an almost 15 year daughter, I can tell you that the baby and toddler stages were awesome compared to the teenage years skin to skin is great, especially for a fussy baby. But not getting that contact immediately after birth isn't fatal.
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