Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 8:01:59 GMT -5
beer, this isn't an incident of a teacher reaching for something in a cupboard and it tumbles out and hits a student accidentally - that would be unintentional. He didn't tap the student on the shoulder and startle him so he fell out of his seat - also an unintentional situation.
This guy picked up a weighty object and struck a kid with it - in the head, possibly a student that was sleeping. There is absolutely nothing unintentional about that.
If someone is being aggressive & threatening, those are reasons to strike out as a fear or defensive reaction.
I can't imagine what the teacher was thinking. There is no possible rationale for striking a sleeping student. This school is not reacting appropriately and is closing ranks to cover the teacher. NOT OK.
There is both criminal & civil liability for the teacher and school. I am disgusted by the schools response & I'd move quick to ensure they understand what a major issue this is. They're trying to sweep it under the rug and minimize it to some sort of joke, and are penalizing the kid. WRONG WRONG WRONG.
Double thumbs up to the "you don't touch a student" comments from SS and debt. My DD has just completed her Teacher Certification and for 2 years it was DRILLED into her that you never ever touch a student, ever. Very difficult when you are dealing with a teen whose life has gone upside down, is in tears, and doesn't have the coping mechanisms to deal with it. Very difficult, because you are human.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 8:15:40 GMT -5
I believe the degree of injury caused was unintentional. I don't think he picked up the backpack and said to himself "maybe a concussion will remind him to stay awake in my class". Is it that difficult for everyone to understand?!?!
And for the 3rd time, I AGREE THAT HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE TOUCHED A STUDENT AND THAT HE SHOULD BE PUNISHED FOR IT!!
You can continue to try to educate the masses on why this was wrong, but I get it.
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Oct 4, 2013 8:32:24 GMT -5
My DD's honors history teacher has a fly swatter in his room. I don't think he actually hits them but he swats the desks if they fall asleep. I guess he could miss, but I doubt anyone would make a fuss about it because all the kids know he isn't trying to hurt them or insult them just wake the class up. I can't imagine picking up a bookbag though. That was just such poor judgement on his part. Even if he thought it would just be a tap that is beyond stupid.
As far as what should happen I don't actually know what I would do. The student definately shouldn't be punised by getting KP duty because his teacher was an idiot. It probably would depend on the teacher, and if this was a very out of character mistake, or the actions of someone who clearly needs a new job that doesn't involve being around others.
As mad as I probably would be I try to never make decisions when I am angry. I always try to teach my kids about forgiveness and understanding. How can they expect forgiveness themselves if they don't forgive others? If it was truly a mistake I would accept them apoligizing and more on.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 8:34:22 GMT -5
I believe the degree of injury caused was unintentional. I don't think he picked up the backpack and said to himself "maybe a concussion will remind him to stay awake in my class". Is it that difficult for everyone to understand?!?!
And for the 3rd time, I AGREE THAT HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE TOUCHED A STUDENT AND THAT HE SHOULD BE PUNISHED FOR IT!!
You can continue to try to educate the masses on why this was wrong, but I get it.
I think everyone's reaction, I know my attitude is, that he should have been able to see that, that level of damage was possible and that even if he was dumb enough to not think that, as you said he still should not have touched a student.
|
|
sheilaincali
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 17:55:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,131
|
Post by sheilaincali on Oct 6, 2013 20:42:39 GMT -5
Update- I spent the weekend at a scrapbooking retreat with the Boy's mom so I got more of the story and an update to what's happening now.
1. Yes Kyle did have his head down and the mom feels it was partially her fault. He was complaining about feeling sick that morning and having a headache but he had a couple of tests that day so she encouraged him to press on and go to school so he wouldn't miss the tests. By the time the Ecology class rolled around he was not feeling well at all and did put his head down during the "work on your assignment" portion of the class.
2 The local newspaper is doing an article on the situation and called to ask her for her and her son's side of the situation.
3. She met with the principle on Thursday afternoon. According to the principal the police are going to charge the teacher with 5th degree assault. Once they officially charge him he will be removed from the classroom pending the criminal investigation. There will be a long term sub replacing the teacher but by the time that all happens Kyle will have missed 3 full weeks of class and be very far behind. The compromise is that they will pay for him to take a different online science class.
4. They very much would like to put this all behind them and move forward. They found out he needs knee surgery and they are worried about how that will effect his wrestling as he is being recruited by several colleges and being offered athletic scholarships.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2013 21:25:04 GMT -5
Is Kyle's mom an abuse victim? Why would she ever feel like it is her or her kids "fault" that this happened? Neither of their actions truly contributed to the abuse employed by the teacher.
A kid putting his head down because he is tired or does not feel well is NOT a big issue and did not warrant the response he got.
And now the school can explain why the teacher was kept in class and the student was relegated to non educational pursuits. The administration screwed up in their responses. Must be a problem at the district level as well as the local school.
The mom needs to be speaking to an attorney to know how this should be handled correctly and what reparations the student is entitled to.
|
|
happyscooter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 5, 2011 9:04:06 GMT -5
Posts: 2,416
|
Post by happyscooter on Oct 7, 2013 5:58:27 GMT -5
Considering kids cannot play 'tag' anymore because they can't touch someone else, I don't understand why more hasn't been done to the teacher.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 8:24:31 GMT -5
They are going to pay the kid to take an online class. That is weird.
|
|
wvugurl26
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:25:30 GMT -5
Posts: 21,882
|
Post by wvugurl26 on Oct 7, 2013 8:32:28 GMT -5
They are going to pay the kid to take an online class. That is weird. I interpreted it as the school paying for the online class. It's a small school with no other teacher for ecology. I don't see another solution. The kid absolutely should not be punished and miss a science class because of the teacher's actions.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 8:35:16 GMT -5
They are going to pay the kid to take an online class. That is weird. I interpreted it as the school paying for the online class. It's a small school with no other teacher for ecology. I don't see another solution. The kid absolutely should not be punished and miss a science class because of the teacher's actions. Oh yeah. Pay FOR him... not pay him. I really need to pay more attention.
|
|
sheilaincali
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 17:55:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,131
|
Post by sheilaincali on Oct 7, 2013 8:35:47 GMT -5
Rock it- She felt bad for sending him to school when she knew he wasn't feeling well. It was more of a "if I had let him stay home this wouldn't have happened".
She is a legal secretary for a criminal defense attorney so I'm sure she has mentioned to them what has been happening.
Archie- the school removed him from class and it was their decision to keep him for class for nearly 3 weeks. They are required to educate him and he needs another science class to graduate. I don't see a problem with the school paying for him to take a class since they made the decision to remove him from the science class he was taking.
|
|
Formerly SK
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2011 14:23:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,255
|
Post by Formerly SK on Oct 7, 2013 8:59:55 GMT -5
I'm confused...was the boy hurt? Did I miss that somewhere?
I don't condone what the teacher did at all, but if the boy wasn't hurt I'm flabbergasted he's getting charged with assault. It seems like this whole thing is blown out of hand. Seriously, the teacher could have immediately apologized in the principal's office and everyone could be back to work. Now look at the mess.
|
|
Nazgul Girl
Junior Associate
Babysitting our new grandbaby 3 days a week !
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 23:25:02 GMT -5
Posts: 5,913
Today's Mood: excellent
|
Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 7, 2013 9:12:15 GMT -5
I'm confused...was the boy hurt? Did I miss that somewhere? I don't condone what the teacher did at all, but if the boy wasn't hurt I'm flabbergasted he's getting charged with assault. It seems like this whole thing is blown out of hand. Seriously, the teacher could have immediately apologized in the principal's office and everyone could be back to work. Now look at the mess. Oh please. If he had choked the kid, but the kid wasn't hurt, would you still write the same thing ? If somebody takes a shot at someone else was misses, do they get a pass ? In our state, if a teacher puts their hands on a child, except to break up a fight or something like that, or to rescue them or hold them back from falling down the stairs, they can be disciplined, dismissed, referred to the licensing board, and ultimately lose their teaching license. They can also be prosecuted for assault. If this kid's teacher picked up an object and deliberately hit him with it, that's assault. He doesn't need to "get back to work." He needs to be gone. There was a teacher of long-standing at one of the high schools in the next school district over from where we live. He had gotten into some kind of fracas with the administration over some point about something. The next day, he arrived at school as usual, with one difference. Someone walking by his car noticed that there was a pistol lying on the backseat. They reported it, since there is a no weapons policy on school grounds ( naturally ). He got suspended and ultimately fired. He never threatened anyone with it, brandished it, or took it out of the car. Some were upset that he wasn't able to keep his job and get counseling. Nope. If he's smart enought to be teaching hundreds of kids each day, then he's smart enough to follow the rules. No free passes. As I had posted previously, if it was my son, the district would have been paying for his college tuition, not just an online class.
|
|
teen persuasion
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 4,161
|
Post by teen persuasion on Oct 7, 2013 9:27:40 GMT -5
I don't understand why it has taken 3 weeks to charge the teacher. When my DH was in a reversed situation (he stepped between 2 students to break up a looming fight, and unfortunately got hit by both students as they wound up) he was strongly encouraged by his principal to press charges that same day. He did not want to press charges (he's trying to keep these troubled kids out of jail and in school), but the principal convinced him to do it to so as not to set a bad precedent; several of the female teachers were pregnant and thus even more vulnerable.
I also don't understand why the student was not assigned a tutor for the class in question. Any students w/ OSS get tutors to keep up w/ their classes, they don't just get put on hold when they can't be in class/school - same concept here, just for the one class.
|
|
sheilaincali
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 17:55:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,131
|
Post by sheilaincali on Oct 7, 2013 9:29:45 GMT -5
Formerly- no permanent damage. The boy did have a bad headache and required (at the school's insistence) a CT Scan. He was removed from the class pending an investigation. The school's are mandatory reporters. A child was hit by an authority figure in front of witnesses. They were (I believe) legally required to report this. The actual filing of criminal charges is up to the cops because the boy in question is a minor.
The mom did not go to the cops and report it. The bulk of the information that the cops have regarding the situation came from the school administration.
Why wouldn't he be charged? He picked up a backpack with the sole intention of hitting a child with it. Why would a teacher ever think that it was ok to hit a child with an backpack? I think it's unfortunate since this is a long term teacher that should have known better. But I don't think laying his head down on his desk during a quiet period of the class warrants getting hit hard enough by your teacher that you need a CT scan.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 9:30:43 GMT -5
I interpreted it as the school paying for the online class. It's a small school with no other teacher for ecology. I don't see another solution. The kid absolutely should not be punished and miss a science class because of the teacher's actions. Oh yeah. Pay FOR him... not pay him. I really need to pay more attention. Will you never learn? How many misinterpretted posts and fend benders have to happen before you get with it??
|
|
sheilaincali
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 17:55:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,131
|
Post by sheilaincali on Oct 7, 2013 9:31:01 GMT -5
I think because it's a small town and it was a well known teacher that they were covering all of their bases so they didn't get sued by the teacher or the teacher's union. Small towns have big "old Boys" clubs and tend to drag their feet when it comes to doing anything they feel is uncomfortable.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 9:31:44 GMT -5
Oh yeah. Pay FOR him... not pay him. I really need to pay more attention. Will you never learn? How many misinterpretted posts and fend benders have to happen before you get with it?? I don't think i will ever learn. I am 36 and oblivious. It is not going to change.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 9:40:48 GMT -5
It's a good thing you're cute!
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Oct 7, 2013 9:41:52 GMT -5
|
|
Formerly SK
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2011 14:23:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,255
|
Post by Formerly SK on Oct 7, 2013 9:46:40 GMT -5
I agree...the cure is worse than the disease. But you can't have lawsuits without medical reports so yeah, subject the kid to radiation.
|
|
Formerly SK
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2011 14:23:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,255
|
Post by Formerly SK on Oct 7, 2013 9:55:35 GMT -5
I'm confused...was the boy hurt? Did I miss that somewhere? I don't condone what the teacher did at all, but if the boy wasn't hurt I'm flabbergasted he's getting charged with assault. It seems like this whole thing is blown out of hand. Seriously, the teacher could have immediately apologized in the principal's office and everyone could be back to work. Now look at the mess. Oh please. If he had choked the kid, but the kid wasn't hurt, would you still write the same thing ? If somebody takes a shot at someone else was misses, do they get a pass ? In our state, if a teacher puts their hands on a child, except to break up a fight or something like that, or to rescue them or hold them back from falling down the stairs, they can be disciplined, dismissed, referred to the licensing board, and ultimately lose their teaching license. They can also be prosecuted for assault. If this kid's teacher picked up an object and deliberately hit him with it, that's assault. He doesn't need to "get back to work." He needs to be gone. There was a teacher of long-standing at one of the high schools in the next school district over from where we live. He had gotten into some kind of fracas with the administration over some point about something. The next day, he arrived at school as usual, with one difference. Someone walking by his car noticed that there was a pistol lying on the backseat. They reported it, since there is a no weapons policy on school grounds ( naturally ). He got suspended and ultimately fired. He never threatened anyone with it, brandished it, or took it out of the car. Some were upset that he wasn't able to keep his job and get counseling. Nope. If he's smart enought to be teaching hundreds of kids each day, then he's smart enough to follow the rules. No free passes. As I had posted previously, if it was my son, the district would have been paying for his college tuition, not just an online class. I think intent is the issue for me. I'm assuming the teacher was joshing around and didn't realize the force of the backpack until it was too late. I admit it could be the opposite and the teacher had malice when he swung it. The other kids would be good witnesses to testify either way. But let's not be hyperbolic: the child is 17/18 and is on the wrestling team. He's not a 30lb 5yo. For all we know he's larger than the teacher. I also don't agree with the gun analogy. Bringing the gun to school against rules is premeditated. Swinging the backpack was an impulse. A bad one admittedly, but hardly the same category of behavior. So a teacher causes a headache and the school district should fork over 100K or 200K? Really? That's justice?
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Oct 7, 2013 10:04:28 GMT -5
To be fair, those studies are for those under 14/15 and the child in question was a senior. So most likely 17 since it's the beginning of the school year, but possibly 18 and an adult.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Oct 7, 2013 10:22:55 GMT -5
I mentioned this to my SIL this weekend. She teaches. She can't believe that he's still in the classroom and the kid's in the lunchroom. I also mentioned the "no touch" rule that a couple of teachers posted about. She said she'd fail that one because she hugs her kids. I think for some of her students - she's the only one who DOES hug them.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 10:45:03 GMT -5
Oh please. If he had choked the kid, but the kid wasn't hurt, would you still write the same thing ? If somebody takes a shot at someone else was misses, do they get a pass ? In our state, if a teacher puts their hands on a child, except to break up a fight or something like that, or to rescue them or hold them back from falling down the stairs, they can be disciplined, dismissed, referred to the licensing board, and ultimately lose their teaching license. They can also be prosecuted for assault. If this kid's teacher picked up an object and deliberately hit him with it, that's assault. He doesn't need to "get back to work." He needs to be gone. There was a teacher of long-standing at one of the high schools in the next school district over from where we live. He had gotten into some kind of fracas with the administration over some point about something. The next day, he arrived at school as usual, with one difference. Someone walking by his car noticed that there was a pistol lying on the backseat. They reported it, since there is a no weapons policy on school grounds ( naturally ). He got suspended and ultimately fired. He never threatened anyone with it, brandished it, or took it out of the car. Some were upset that he wasn't able to keep his job and get counseling. Nope. If he's smart enought to be teaching hundreds of kids each day, then he's smart enough to follow the rules. No free passes. As I had posted previously, if it was my son, the district would have been paying for his college tuition, not just an online class. I think intent is the issue for me. I'm assuming the teacher was joshing around and didn't realize the force of the backpack until it was too late. I admit it could be the opposite and the teacher had malice when he swung it. The other kids would be good witnesses to testify either way. But let's not be hyperbolic: the child is 17/18 and is on the wrestling team. He's not a 30lb 5yo. For all we know he's larger than the teacher. I also don't agree with the gun analogy. Bringing the gun to school against rules is premeditated. Swinging the backpack was an impulse. A bad one admittedly, but hardly the same category of behavior. So a teacher causes a headache and the school district should fork over 100K or 200K? Really? That's justice? joking or not...hurt or not.....not realizing the force or not.....what on earth would have even made this teacher think that this was acceptable....if nothing else, he's guilty of poor judgment and probably shouldn't be teaching. I can't believe the whole - the teacher didn't mean it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 10:54:44 GMT -5
And I can't believe that no one is allowed to make a stupid mistake in your world.
So far, EVERYONE is in agreement that the teacher should be punished for his actions even though SOME of us believe he didn't hit the kid with the express intent to cause him harm.
|
|
Formerly SK
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2011 14:23:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,255
|
Post by Formerly SK on Oct 7, 2013 10:57:56 GMT -5
Of course it was poor judgement. But does that mean it ends a career, or creates a criminal background, or fines a school district 100K? Why does everything have to be blown up into such gigantic proportions? When did minor injuries turn into such life altering events? And more importantly, what kind of world do our kids grow up in when the legal system is introduced to everything? How do they learn how to solve their own problems when outside parties intrude on everything? What is the lesson from stories like this? Obviously I'm the minority on this. We can agree to disagree.
|
|
Nazgul Girl
Junior Associate
Babysitting our new grandbaby 3 days a week !
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 23:25:02 GMT -5
Posts: 5,913
Today's Mood: excellent
|
Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 7, 2013 11:04:38 GMT -5
I agree with us disagreeing, SK. But there is no going back on this type of thing in the educational world anymore, at least in most cases. It's the equivalent of violating HIPPAA in the medical world.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 11:05:06 GMT -5
Of course it was poor judgement. But does that mean it ends a career, or creates a criminal background, or fines a school district 100K? Why does everything have to be blown up into such gigantic proportions? When did minor injuries turn into such life altering events? And more importantly, what kind of world do our kids grow up in when the legal system is introduced to everything? How do they learn how to solve their own problems when outside parties intrude on everything? What is the lesson from stories like this? Obviously I'm the minority on this. We can agree to disagree. the schools made it this way with their zero tolerance policy.....where having an advil on you is grounds for expulsion....where if another student did this they would have been disciplined. as was said above, the parent didn't call the police or require a CT scan....the school is a mandated reporter and in order to CYA they wanted a CT scan. the mother could have refused it - I find it hard to believe that the hospital performed it because the school nurse said so. unless it's life threatening, they don't do things without parental consent (unless the kid was 18 and consented himself).
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 7, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2013 11:17:42 GMT -5
And I can't believe that no one is allowed to make a stupid mistake in your world. So far, EVERYONE is in agreement that the teacher should be punished for his actions even though SOME of us believe he didn't hit the kid with the express intent to cause him harm. That is not a mistake, it is a decision to assault someone. Anyone who decides to assault my child is going to pay, and pay heavily. You do NOT touch my child without consent.
|
|