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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 11:05:21 GMT -5
My HS Accounting teacher had one of these that he would slam on the desk to wake people up:
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justme
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Post by justme on Oct 2, 2013 11:19:30 GMT -5
In my HS the teachers liked to drop textbooks on the floor next to the sleeping kids. It was funny to see the kid jump at the noise.
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nogooddeed
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Post by nogooddeed on Oct 2, 2013 11:31:41 GMT -5
Tough to say what to think or do since we only have one side of the story. His head was down long enough for the teacher to walk over, pick up the back pack and swing it? Do I condone what the teacher did? Nope, but I think there's a lot more information that would have to be looked at before making a judgment. Personally, I would have launched the eraser at him, but unless it's a chalk eraser, it just doesn't have the same effect.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Oct 2, 2013 11:41:37 GMT -5
I had an algebra teacher that would smack you with the spiral side of her grade book if you didn't do your homework. She'd also "clean" her chalk erasers out on your head or threaten to color you with a marker if you fell asleep in class. I never saw it happen but I have no doubt it did at some point in her career. But even my stupidest teacher wouldn't pick up a backpack full of books and find that appropriate to swing at a kid's head. I'd be all kinds of ticked off over that and it would probably take me several days to calm down enough to NOT want his head on a platter. If that happened between students I bet the one swinging would go to jail for assault at that age. (I can't be the only person to see news reports of this kid or that being carted off to jail for the fight they got into in high school.) I would really be unappreciative of the nurse not having more details than "I'm taking him to the ER" too. She had to have enough info to give me a quick rundown and a CYA kind of statement wouldn't sit well with me at all. Then to find out that the injured party was removed and sent to kitchen duty instead of actually learning what he should be learning? That'd make me even less inclined to be forgiving. I don't think I'd sue unless I couldn't get my kid back into an equivalent class with a different teacher. I'd be mad but I'd try to be adult and reasonable as long as the school was being the same. It would seem that with all the various colleges in the area they'd be able to find someone who could cover the material with him on a one or one or some other level. There is no way that I'd want the teacher grading anything my kid did after that for fear of either letting him skate (because of fear of being called retaliatory) or actual retaliation.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Oct 2, 2013 11:52:12 GMT -5
DH grew up in the South and this sort of thing is a real trigger for him. He struggles with Math and his 6th grade teacher would line the kids up in the hall every day if they didn't do well on the homework and paddle them with a canoe paddle. He has also been smacked with rulers and had his hands slapped by every office supply imaginable (erasers, rulers, staplers, etc). He reacted to my friend's post in a rather visceral manner.
I agree with you CL- I'd want my kid to learn the material and get the education he deserves but I wouldn't trust that teacher to be impartial. At this point I can only assume he is aware of the ER visit and the report to the police.
nogooddeed- Agreed. On the flipside the teacher could have been making the rounds and come up behind Kyle, noticed his head was down and picked up the backpack and swung it all in a matter of several seconds. But we weren't there and the only information that I have to go on is what his mom said in her post and comment.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Oct 2, 2013 12:00:22 GMT -5
I'm still in the South Sheila and I can tell you I ran into only 2 teachers that whacked ME with anything. One was a nun with a ruler, the other was the algebra teacher. I did go to school in the dark ages when boys still got paddled. And it wasn't for no homework. You had to really act up to get that far. It's a shame your DH had such a different experience I hope those teachers get a little karma of their own .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 12:30:35 GMT -5
What the teacher did is NOT ok. I don't care if the kid was sleeping or not, HE is the teacher and should know better than to hit the student with anything. I do not understand why any teacher would think it was ok.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 2, 2013 12:54:13 GMT -5
::If the backpack was truly 11 pounds then I don't know how the teacher could pick it up and not realize it was too heavy an object to hit someone on the back of the head with.:: An 11 pound backpack isn't that heavy. And it's not comparable to a sledgehammer. Density matters. It matters greatly how the backpack was swung to hit him. can I hit you in the head with an 11 pound backpack when you aren't looking? I think the teacher was out of line, but I don't think he should be fired. Nor should the kid be removed from the class for something the teacher did. Put the kid back in, the teacher needs to suck it up and apologize, and everyone needs to move on.
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greeniis10
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Post by greeniis10 on Oct 2, 2013 13:04:41 GMT -5
I agree with Swamp: teacher needs to apologize, student needs to pay attention in class and realize HE was in the wrong as well and just get over it and move on. As a parent, yes, this would upset me, but there are bigger things to worry about. No need to purposely turn this into one of them. (Not saying the parent in the OP is doing that, but given enough publicity and fuel it can escalate quickly.)
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 2, 2013 13:46:31 GMT -5
I can't be.ieve he hit the kid with the backpack. Seriously? In this day and age? I accidentally hit a kid with a ball one time because the kid looked away when I was bouncing to him. Yes, he knew he was next so it was no surprise but for some reason, other than the obvious one of being he's a KID, he looked away. It hit him in the face and knocked him down which made him hit his head. Jesus! It happens that fast and that innocently. Thank GOD his parents weren't a-holes and knew it was an accident but the kid looked like he got beat up at PE and enjoyed telling the story that his PE teacher hit him. Argh.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Oct 2, 2013 13:47:10 GMT -5
first things first- I'd demand my kid be taken out of the cafeteria. WTF? who even thought that up. There should be no problem passing along the appropriate material for class and finding him a place where he can continue his work until the investigation is over. I can't really wrap my head around why the teacher thought this was okay- and I'm usually of the mind that most kids deserve a good smacking
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 2, 2013 13:48:17 GMT -5
I'm wondering why a tap on the shoulder wasn't sufficient?
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Oct 2, 2013 14:24:13 GMT -5
CL- DH went to school in a tiny town in rural Tennessee. He had teachers who taught his dad and his dad was 40 when DH was born. They were of the firm opinion that if it wasn't in the local, once a week newspaper than it wasn't news or anything they needed to discuss in class. His social studies teacher had never been out of their county. Not country- county. DH got paddled and slapped with rulers for all sorts of offenses- not having homework done and/or not doing well on his math test was a common one. He claims he got paddled every day of 2nd grade by his teacher.
Swamp- I agree. Teacher should apologize and they should all just move on. What he did was wrong and Kyle (if he was in fact sleeping) should have been participating in class and not napping. It's unclear if he was sleeping or had just put his head down while he was reading or something of the sort.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 17:51:47 GMT -5
Ok, I'll chime in, but I'm not the Voice of Education here.
What the OP described is sort of fostered by NCIS, which is one of my favorite tv shows. It is the "Gibbs slap" on the head. I tell my kids all the time that I'm giving them the "Gibbs slap, but then my hand just blows air by their head. Or maybe not. I am extra-careful because I don't want to accidentally hit them while pretending to hit them.
I can see how this happened, but it is incredibly stupid. The teacher is incredibly stupid. If my students fall asleep, I have a cowbell that I ring in their ear. The cowbell is a gift of a former senior class who found the bicycle horn less funny. I guess I could be sued for causing deafness, but that's because you can be sued for anything.
You do not touch students. Unfortunately, that means you have to also be careful about hugging them, etc. I do thumbs up and thumbs down a lot. I blow kisses. I applaud. I do mock tears. I do the "world's smallest violin" (thanks to my son). Quite simply, you do not touch kids. You do not truly humiliate them. You do not shame them. You can correct in a pleasant way. Sometimes that includes "teasing." I often tell kids that don't turn in stuff, "Do you love my class so much that you want to do it again next year? But I tell the same jokes!" That gets the message across.
We have a lawsuit currently pending because an Inschool Suspension teacher tried to wake up a sleeping student by banging a book by her head. Evidently the book caused the side of the study carrel (or whatever they are called/spelled) to hit the student. Somehow she got led out of the room the school resource officer (police). She and her mother went to the ER. As soon as she was sure to graduate, they filed a lawsuit.
I already said this, but the teacher was stupid. The school system is stupid. They can't win this one so why are they even trying. They need to give the teacher a really "official" reprimand that says, "You will be fired if you touch a kid again." The warnings, etc. don't apply in assault cases. If he is the only ecology teacher in the school and the kid really wants to take ecology, they find another teacher to do an "independent study" with him.
It's not an accident, guys. Every teacher knows how heavy those backpacks are. Every teacher knows that there are studies showing that we are really crippling kids with those backpacks. That is part of the impetus to online textbooks. The teacher knew the backpack would hurt.
Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
You can't defend the teacher. I teach, and I can't. If you were talking about something verbal that could have multiple meanings, I might be 100% on the teacher's side. But that was a physical act that had the ability to cause harm. And, as many other posters have said, concussions are a big issue in education today. I have kids who are home for a week with a concussion because they aren't even supposed to "think" until their brain recovers.
I can't imagine any system condoning causing that situation.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Oct 2, 2013 18:21:13 GMT -5
Didn't read the whole thread....
I just want to make sure I understand -
Schools have zero tolerance policy on hitting/touching and suspend 1st graders for horsing around on the playground
But!! an adult HITS a kid (I don't really care if it was a prank or whatever else) and he is still teaching??
Yeah, OK.............
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 18:26:04 GMT -5
I'd be speaking to the DA in this case. What the teacher was assault. I would be speaking to the school about independent study, my child would not be in the cafeteria. I'd also be upset if the student was underage and left in the ER. The school is in loco parentis in that case, in most states. Again, an issue to speak to a lawyer and the school. I would be considering suing if they did not suspend the teacher. And I've read a ton of union contracts and in each and every one, there are exceptions for assult/break the law etc. To be honest, most often the bosses don't know how to follow procedures and people get off but it should not be impossible to fire this man. I am livid and I don't know the kid.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Oct 2, 2013 18:35:51 GMT -5
What the teacher did is NOT ok. I don't care if the kid was sleeping your not, HE is the teacher and should know better than to hit the student with anything. I do not understand why any teacher would think it was ok.
He was mad that his class was so boring the kid fell asleep so he took it out on the kid? But I agree with others that when he lifted the backpack full of books he had to know that could do the kid's head head some damage if hit just wrong. A really bad idea and I'm betting one that will not be repeated if he still has his job after they dig further to what really happened.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Oct 2, 2013 18:39:21 GMT -5
This sounds sooo wrong. The teen boy "Kyle" is the one who's being punished - but it was the teacher "Mr S" who struck the student with what could only be described as a heavy object.
"Kyle" was removed from the class to basically do punishment (cafeteria work) but the teacher is still in the classroom & in control of his class and students?
The teacher should have been placed on suspension pending an investigation - and "Kyle" should have been able to complete his semester.
Even if he was dozing with his head down, the teacher had no right to lay a hand (or backpack) on him.
At the very most, he should have sent the boy to detention or the principal's office. But I was under the assumption that corporal punishment was no longer allowed in school.
If I were "Kyle's" parent(s) I'd be pressing charges of assault - and possibly more - depending if the school nurse just dumped him off in the ER and left.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Oct 2, 2013 19:26:20 GMT -5
Susana- thank you for chiming in from the perspective of an educator. I appreciate your insights. DS has had a series of excellent teachers and the ones he likes the best are the ones the joke around and verbally tease (like how you have described).
Gin- I had an emergency root canal today- while I was making my follow up appointments I made DS' next cleaning appointment. He is 15. They were very specific with me and told me no fewer than 3 times that because he is a minor either myself, his father or a designated guardian need to be in the waiting room throughout his entire appointment in the event there is an emergency or question about treatment. I finally told them "he can't drive yet, I'm his ride so I will be here" She said that they have to chase parents out to the parking lot all the time and make them come back and wait inside.
Whole situation- did happen. The facebook post was copy and pasted directly from FB. Only thing I changed was to change the teachers name from his full name to be the first initial of his last name and I took out the name of the city. Otherwise I didn't make any other changes. The mom has yet to respond to everyone else's responses other than to say the bit about the nurse leaving him in the ER. She has said nothing about suing the school or anything to suggest that. Many of her FB friends were pushing for that and recommending she do that. Honestly- he is a good kid that wants to go on the college and participate in his chosen sports. I think he'd prefer to put this behind him and get back into class.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 19:48:56 GMT -5
He should be able to put it behind him, but being assaulted in school, basically punished in school for being assaulted and the person who assaulted you still being an authority figure over you may make it difficult to put it behind him. It is up to his mother to protect him which may mean flipping out or being calm depending on what is to his overall benefit. I personally would raise Cain, mostly cause my husband after I read the OP to him was at lawsuit so fast my head spun. He is the nice one, I am the one who will raise on earth so.... Yea, you don't get to assault my child, I will end you. Susana- thank you for chiming in from the perspective of an educator. I appreciate your insights. DS has had a series of excellent teachers and the ones he likes the best are the ones the joke around and verbally tease (like how you have described). Gin- I had an emergency root canal today- while I was making my follow up appointments I made DS' next cleaning appointment. He is 15. They were very specific with me and told me no fewer than 3 times that because he is a minor either myself, his father or a designated guardian need to be in the waiting room throughout his entire appointment in the event there is an emergency or question about treatment. I finally told them "he can't drive yet, I'm his ride so I will be here" She said that they have to chase parents out to the parking lot all the time and make them come back and wait inside. Whole situation- did happen. The facebook post was copy and pasted directly from FB. Only thing I changed was to change the teachers name from his full name to be the first initial of his last name and I took out the name of the city. Otherwise I didn't make any other changes. The mom has yet to respond to everyone else's responses other than to say the bit about the nurse leaving him in the ER. She has said nothing about suing the school or anything to suggest that. Many of her FB friends were pushing for that and recommending she do that. Honestly- he is a good kid that wants to go on the college and participate in his chosen sports. I think he'd prefer to put this behind him and get back into class.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 3, 2013 7:26:10 GMT -5
That's how boys are, thankfully. Just want to get on with their lives. DS was so easy in high school and I can so see this same scenario with him, although he wouldn't have put his head down to begin with but I think some easy going natures seem to attract bullies. This jerk of a teacher is a bully.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 3, 2013 7:28:30 GMT -5
Some schools, when students get to high school, seem to drop the ball with them thinking they can handle it themselves. I will never forget finding DD on the bathroom floor of the school office after the school called me that she was in pain! No one knew where she was when I showed up and I went looking for her and found her on the floor!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 15:31:26 GMT -5
This thread just breaks my heart. It is SO easy for a student to go "downhill" in the face of somebody with authority, and screw up his future, through basically no fault of his own. (Yes I know the kid put his head down on the desk. Can you imagine the headlines?! "Kid put his head down, and teacher belted him with his 11lb backpack. Now kid is working the cafeteria, but teacher is safe and he's still teaching YOUR kids!")
Sheila, can this child transfer to another school? I agree that he shouldn't HAVE to, but given that the school is defending the teacher, and putting this poor kid to work in the cafeteria, it may be the best option for him.
Once again, SS is right on the mark. She is really lucky she lives so far away from me, LOL, because she is my hero, and if she didn't, I might be stalking her and / or moving in.
SS is absolutely right. You NEVER touch a kid. NEVER EVER. I got a lot wrong when I was starting out in the MS but thankfully I got that right. When I was in MS I had a kid standing on a desk and threatening to pull his pants down and crap on the desk. I wanted to whack him from here to eternity and back, but I still didn't touch him.
This teacher has a kid in a totally passive position, head down. So the kid's crime was that he was either asleep or not paying attention. And the teacher whacks him with an 11lb backpack?! That is beyond stupid. But what is way worse IMO, is that the school is defending the teacher. The teacher's place is safe, and the kid is out of that science class, and working in the cafeteria instead.
And like SS said, it works both ways. I teach second-years who are the age of my own kids. I have become very attached to some of them. So when they come back in 4h year (Masters) after their year abroad, they see me and they want to hug me. At which point my arms drop to my side, I go wooden, and I do my best to try to make them understand that I am absolutely thrilled to see them, but I don't hug them back. How sad is that?!
Other thought: can the family call a child-abuse hotline? I'm really not sure what would happen in that situation but this is just SO TERRIBLY unjust!
I really think the family should get that kid into another school. That does not prevent them from legal action if they should choose to pursue it. But I'm thinking they probably need to wait until he graduates.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 18:49:19 GMT -5
I teach at a high school in Minnesota and I can't even imagine this scenario happening. There is no way that a teacher taking an eleven pound backpack to a sleeping student is okay.
Seriously, I don't understand how the student ended up working in the cafeteria. I realize that the school year is well under way so transferring to another class may not be possible but working in the cafeteria? I agree that an online class should be an option.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 3, 2013 19:51:26 GMT -5
No touch the kids. Period. Teacher needs to be fired, or at the minium, suspended until the semester is over. The child/student/whatever was not physically endangering him, only his ego. I would get an attorney and discuss the options. The school would be making a cash payment to the child/student for college.
Also, I don't like it when kids are assaulted. I had a band teacher in junior high who was a vicious sadist. He broke the front teeth of a trombone player by jamming the guy's trombone back in his mouth because the teacher didn't like the way he was playing. He also put a kid through a plate glass door window during our lunch period. He was not disciplined or fined in any way. He was not fired.
We were all like sheep in our small town. No-one did anything about Mr. C. Luckily, he was known as "Bozo" and boys would call out his nickname in the cateteria in a low voice. We would watch him just go nuts. He had it coming.
Who knows what other shit this teacher is pulling ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 22:36:54 GMT -5
I don't think the teacher intentionally caused him harm. But the kid was hurt just the same so he is at fault for that. I don't know the protocol for a school nurse taking a kid to the hospital. Did she leave him sitting in the waiting room or did she wait until he was under the care of a doctor? If he was in an exam room I would feel differently than if she left him in the waiting room by himself. WTE are you talking about The teacher hit him with a loaded back pack. What is unintentional about that? The teacher should be on administrative leave. I'd have a lawyer on this so fast their heads would spin (civil suit) I'd be in the police chief's face & city attorney as well, demanding criminal prosecution. I'd have a criminal attorney on retainer to advise me how to get the right attention on this. NO WAY I'd let "the system" play this one out. This was an intentionally hostile, abusive act to a NON CONFRONTATIONAL student. Hey, taking a nap in my class pisses me off. I can't imagine what this moronic teacher was thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 7:29:12 GMT -5
Oy. I don't think the teacher hit him in the head with the intent of giving him a concussion. THAT is what I meant.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 7:37:59 GMT -5
Oy. I don't think the teacher hit him in the head with the intent of giving him a concussion. THAT is what I meant. No matter if he intended that to be the result of his assault, the teacher did intend to assault him. And based on, my frankly limited, understanding of the law that makes him responsible for result as long as the result could have been expected. Giving someone a concussion, if you drop 11lbs on them, should be someone one would expect. Given that I can break someone's neck with 20lbs, you'd have to be an idiot to not realize 11lbs could do damage. If the teacher is that idiotic that he did not see this as a possibility, he should not be teaching anyway.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Oct 4, 2013 7:48:10 GMT -5
Sheila, any updates?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2013 7:49:15 GMT -5
And I agree. See:
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