Teacher vs Student Assault? WWYD UPDATE Post #65

[sheilaincali]

The following is a facebook post from a friend of mine.  We aren't super close but we do hang out a few times a year and have mutual friends in common.  She isn't typically one of those drama filled people so this entire post is pretty out of character for her.  The son in question is a senior and a stand out on more than one of the school sports teams.  From what I know he is not typically a trouble maker.  Some names/towns changed to generics to protect their privacy.

Robert S –Kyle’s Ecology teacher. Hit Kyle in the back of the head last Thursday. Kyle had his head down (teacher thought he was sleeping) and Mr. S picked up Kyle’s 11lb. back pack and hit him with it (a sledge hammer weights 12lbs) Kyle was taken to the ER by the school nurse and left there. Mr. S is still teaching and school officials are refusing to remove him from the classroom during the investigation process. The school notified the police and a report have been given, the officer said it sounds like 5th degree assault, but it up to the county prosecutor to file charges. Yesterday Kyle was removed from class and told he can help in the lunchroom and still earn graduating credits. I am outraged what should I do. I can I do?

What would you do if this were your child?  Was it a harmless prank that went wrong?  Was the teacher at fault?  The kid for putting his head down a few minutes before class ended? 

Points to clarify- the school called Kyle's mom after they had taken him to the ER.  The nurse left him at the ER alone and returned to school.  Mom didn't find out until she got to the ER that they had just left her kid there.  He is a senior in High School so 17 or 18. 

[Deleted]

sounds like the school is taking it seriously. 

[Deleted]

I don't think the teacher intentionally caused him harm. But the kid was hurt just the same so he is at fault for that.

I don't know the protocol for a school nurse taking a kid to the hospital. Did she leave him sitting in the waiting room or did she wait until he was under the care of a doctor? If he was in an exam room I would feel differently than if she left him in the waiting room by himself.

[sheilaincali]

But who should be removed from the class?  The teacher while they figure things out or the student?  The school went with the student and removed him from class.
He was told he couldn't attend that class and instead has to help the lunch lady in the cafeteria during that class hour.  How is that educating him? 

[sheilaincali]

Beer- this is all she wrote on the ER subject. 

She called and told me she was taking him but not that she was leaving him there alone.

So I'm not sure at what point she left him at the ER. 

[Deleted]

Do they only have the one Ecology Teacher?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Why was the kid removed from class?  He didn't do anything wrong.   Even if it was a "prank" and the teacher didn't mean to hurt him the kid still ended up in the ER.   IMO he should be removed and a substitute hired till the investigation is over.  The kid shouldn't be expected to work in the cafeteria.

I don't think I'd be too mad about the school nurse.  It'd have been nice for her to stay but she can't make any decisions regarding his care so it's not like he was in danger if she wasn't there with him till I arrived.

[Deleted]

He will get more real world education about ecology in a lunchroom cafeteria than any classroom could teach him.

[Opti]

My guess is its policy to leave the teacher in class and remove the student. Its also possible
they aren't having an easy time finding an appropriate temp for Ecology class. I would think that's not a typical specialization.

I hope the teacher did it so quickly he didn't realize he was being an idiot, but I don't understand hitting the kid with anything. I would have expected a loud clap perhaps by the student's ears instead.

I agree with other posters that being left at the ER alone shouldn't be a big deal as long
as he was seen by a Doctor or in the process thereof before the nurse left.

[Formerly SK]

What exactly were the injuries?  Being taken to the ER could be a school's CYA.  Was the boy actually hurt?

Assuming the teacher simply made a bad call (thought he was being funny to do it but the book was heavier than he thought) I don't see why anyone needs to be separated more than a day or so until the investigation happens.  Then the teacher can apologize to the kid and everyone can move on. 

Now, if the teacher is an asshole and this was just the latest incident, my answer would be different. 

To answer your question specifically, I would not be outraged that my 17/18 year old was left at the ER alone.  IMO he's an adult and can sit in a room until his name is called.  I also wouldn't be expecting the teacher to lose the rest of the school year over it (assuming it was an innocent accident).  I would not pursue prosecution for an accident.  I would definitely expect my kid to be back in class asap, and I would help my kid to work through his emotions as they re-establish their normal academic partnership. 

[Deleted]

I think my answer is different if it was a CYA move to take the kid to the hospital or if he actually needed to be at the hospital.

If it was just a CYA and the kid was just like "ow! Man, that ain't cool" and maybe has a bump on his head, then I think the teacher should apologize in front of the class and talk about why it was wrong, etc. I think that, if possible, the kid should be moved to a different section of the class, but if not, then he stays. It might be worthwhile to have someone else grade him, though, so there is not a chance for an accusation of retaliation, etc. in this case, I'd also be fine with my kid sitting in a hospital waiting room.

If the kid was genuinely hurt (not saying the above isn't hurt, but there are degrees) and needed to be at a hospital, then the teacher should be removed immediately. Done. Out. And the nurse should stay with him until he is under the care of a doctor if he is very hurt.

Sounds like a CYA move from what has been said....but without knowing more, really can't tell.

[sheilaincali]

Answers:
The school is in a small town (like 12,000 people) so I am betting this is the only Ecology teacher.

Formerly SK- they were worried about a concussion.  He does football and wrestling and concussion is a big concern in high schools these days.  The nurse sent him in for a CT scan.

My friend wasn't so much mad that they left him there as she was mad that they hadn't given her much information.  It was a call to say "Kyle was injured at school today and we are taking him to the ER" that was all the info she got.  It wasn't until she talked to her son and went back to the school that the school said anything else to her.

this is what another person responded on facebook:

I agree with Mark! That is ridiculous! What kind of teacher does something like that and then the school not take any action. He should of been told to go home until the investigation was done! The same thing happen in LC a couple years ago and the school took action right away and the teacher was asked to leave until it was resolved.

So I don't know if there is a protocol for how to handle the teacher aspect or not.  Obviously SP left the teacher in play and removed the kid.  LC removed the teacher and left the kid in class.

[sheilaincali]

He was hit in the back of the head with an 11 lb backpack (full of books) when he wasn't expecting it so I imagine he yelled and that it hurt.  The teacher is the one that sent him to the nurse after hitting him and the nurse made the decision to take him to the ER. 

****Brain bleeds and that are big concerns these days.  When my grandma fell at the nursing home and got a bump on her head they made me take her to the ER to be checked out.  They specifically recommended that I request a CT scan.  Which they did anyway because my grandma with dementia (who only know who I am about 30% of the time) told the doctor I was her daughter Peg. 

From what she has said Kyle mostly had a bad headache- as would be expected after getting hit in the head.  The whole ER visit was the school nurses call, decision, idea, etc.  My friend didn't get called by the nurse until they were already at the ER.

[wvugurl26]

I get the small town thing and one teacher but I'd be outraged by my kid being removed from class. The kid put his head down for a few minutes. And for this he is expected to not have science class for the rest of the year? That's a pretty harsh punishment for the kid.

If the school doesn't want him back in the class then they need to allow him to do an online version or something. Helping the lunch lady in lieu of science class is a total punishment in my book.

[sheilaincali]

Wuvgurl- that was my DH's biggest issue- the removing the kid from class.  He thinks that they are in essence refusing to educate the kid and putting him at a disadvantage in the long run because of something the teacher did.

I was surprised reading the comments from her other friends- other people had similar instances with different teachers at different schools.  I don't know those parents or their children so I have no clue as the validity of their experiences.

[Wisconsin Beth]

It is not ok to hit.  Period.  Why did this teacher think hitting someone was an appropriate response? 

My response here is probably colored by the fact that we're working very hard on stopping my not quite 4 year old son from hitting/beating on his sister. 

[milee]

You guys are probably bored to tears with having me mention it, but this sounds eerily similar to the assault that I keep mentioning.  In our area, we had a teacher who had been growing increasingly verbally abusive to special needs students and then started "bopping" them on the back of the head with whatever was available - from her open hand to a water bottle.  When it found out, the school removed her from the classroom to protect the children while the investigation continued.  The teacher admitted to the conduct but successfully fought her termination because the union contract required a series of written warnings and documentations before a teacher could be removed or fired.

The school system in this OP may be dealing with a similar situation.  You might have set the school on fire, but unless the 3 written warnings and other steps are followed, you can't be fired... thanks, union.

[wvugurl26]

While I think removing the kid and providing no acceptable alternative method of getting the material is wrong no matter what, they are removing him from a science class, not basket weaving.

Sure it would cost them money but in this age there is zero reason why the school does not find an acceptable online curriculum and allow it to be completed under the supervision of another teacher. I'd hope they have more than one science teacher but any teacher could supervise him.

The teacher should not have hit him like that either. That is one thing but to further punish the kid for the actions of a teacher, is so wrong. I'd be telling the school and the board of education that their proposed alternative was absolutely unacceptable to me.

The school is also in the wrong for putting ecology on his transcript with passing marks knowing he didn't complete the course.

[sheilaincali]

To give the benefit of the doubt to the teacher I'm assuming/thinking/hoping that he thought he was being funny or just joking around.  But when he picked up the backpack in the first place he had to notice it felt heavy.

I wonder if social media isn't to blame? If you are on pinterest there are a couple of memes about awesome teachers and one shows a teacher on the floor tying a kids shoe laces together as punishment for sleeping in class.  Presumably the kid will wake up when the bell goes off and fell when he goes to stand up.  All I can imagine it this kid hitting the corner of the teachers desk or tripping other kids or something.

I'm biased because I'm a parent of a teenager.  I get pissed when my kid comes home and tells me "gym teacher beamed me with a ball in gym class today"  I don't throw a big fit over it because my kid is super uncoordinated and expecting him to catch anything is a recipe for disaster.  However, in this case the teacher hitting Kyle with a backpack is not the same thing as the PE teacher throwing a basketball to my kid (who is expecting it) during the basketball section of PE. 

[wvugurl26]

The teacher had a lapse in judgement. The student should not suffer more than he already has due to the teacher's lapse in judgement. His education and particularly a core area like science should not be downgraded because the teacher thought this was a good idea.

I understand the school not placing the kid back in the teacher's classroom. However, their proposed alternative placement for the kid instead of ecology is absolutely unacceptable. This is the internet age. One of my coworkers has their kid in a 100% internet based school approved by their state. Surely the school can find an ecology course for the kid to take. That is what they should do.

[Formerly SK]

See, and I think getting a CT scan is a CYA.  Kids hit each other with backpacks all the time.  I'm not saying we shouldn't be diligent about concussions, but a CT scan for this incident seems over the top.  Not to mention, CT scans come with a lot of exposure to radiation...not exactly something I want my kid to go through unless I really thought it was necessary.

www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-much-ct-scans-increase-risk-cancer

But a single CT scan subjects the human body to between 150 and 1,100 times the radiation of a conventional x-ray, or around a year's worth of exposure to radiation from both natural and artificial sources in the environment.

Anyway, I hope the kid is OK and he gets back in class asap.  Hopefully both sides can get resolve this quickly so the kid's education isn't affected by a single incident. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I agree with study hall.  I can teach my kid ecology easy.  I would be peeved with the solution of having my kid be free labor in the cafeteria, seriously you can't think of a better option?

[movingforward]

If the backpack was truly 11 pounds then I don't know how the teacher could pick it up and not realize it was too heavy an object to hit someone on the back of the head with.  I remember I once had a Spanish teacher that dropped an eraser on a kid who fell asleep.  That was pretty funny actually... but an eraser is extremely light.  Had the backpack been empty that would have been one thing but while it is full of books  Not so sure how the teacher could not know that is inappropriate. 

I agree with others about doing study hall.  Why should he have to work in the cafeteria? 

[sheilaincali]

I appreciate you all weighing in on this.  When it comes to facebook people tend to automatically side with the injured party.  As a result all of the responses were of the "poor Kyle" and "Sue the school" variety. 

The "sue the school" comments may have something to do with the fact that the mom is a paralegal and several of her friends/co-workers are obviously in the same profession.  FWIW- at no point did the mom say anything about suing the school.  Her two fb comments have been copied and pasted here (the original post and her response to the nurse leaving her son at the ER). 

We actually have a big scrapbooking out of town weekend planned for this weekend so I will be hanging out with my friend, her mom (Kyle's grandma) and 9 other ladies.  So I'm thinking we might get more info on the situation this weekend.  Like I said- she isn't big on FB drama. 

[milee]

Oct 2, 2013 10:03:46 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I remember I once had a Spanish teacher that dropped an eraser on a kid who fell asleep.  That was pretty funny actually... but an eraser is extremely light. 

We had a Geometry/Trig teacher who would toss erasers at people who were sleeping.  We all loved that guy, even those of us who had an eraser tossed at us.  99% of the time, the eraser didn't even touch the student, just land with a "thunk!" on the desk and kick up a huge, billowing cloud of chalk dust. 

I'm not condoning throwing things at kids and it's not something I would do, but as a parent of a high schooler in Geometry/Trig, I wouldn't complain about the eraser thing either.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Based on the information provided I think suing is complete overkill and would create more bad will between everyone than needed.

I would be sitting down with the principal and asking them to explain to me why Kyle had to be removed and how did they come up with the brilliant idea of making him work in the cafeteria.  I would want to find another solution that doesn't involve my kid being free labor.

If he was at fault I'd be all for it but he's not.  The teacher is an adult and should know better.  I wouldn't be after his head on a silver platter but it shouldn't be my kid working in the cafeteria either.

[hoops902]

::If the backpack was truly 11 pounds then I don't know how the teacher could pick it up and not realize it was too heavy an object to hit someone on the back of the head with.::

An 11 pound backpack isn't that heavy.  And it's not comparable to a sledgehammer.  Density matters.  It matters greatly how the backpack was swung to hit him. 

[sheilaincali]

I doubt the mom will sue the school or has any plans in that direction.  She is upset that A. it happened in the first place, B. the school wasn't very forthcoming with the information initially, and C. that Kyle was removed from the science class and assigned to help in the lunchroom in exchange for "graduation credits".   She hasn't made any references to getting the teacher fired.  She mostly just wants Kyle to be able to go to class. 

This is the teacher's bio on the school's website:  (changed some things for his privacy)

Hello,

I'm Robert S, long time Biology teacher here at (The) High School. I currently have several responsibilities within the district but first and foremost it's about teaching the basics of biology in three different required and elective classes.

I work primarily with sophomores in my required Biology class and then juniors and seniors in Ecology or Biology 105. Biology 105 is the highest level of Biology that we offer at (the) High School and it is a "college in the schools" offering with Minnesota State - (my city) that is the equivalent to taking freshman level Biology for Science Majors on their campus.

I also teach, and work for (very expensive local private college in this town) in several capacities and occassionally teach during the summer with my alma mater, (respectable university in this state) within their graduate degree program. If that isn't enough, I am the advisor and help organize the HS Ecology Club.

I have two bachelor of science degrees. One in Biology and the other in Life Science Education, I also have a master's degree in Biology from (X University).

I removed the references to the town and his alma mater otherwise it's directly from his biography on his school webpage.  So he is not a new teacher, not inexperienced, and appears to be well educated for the area.  I don't think this is or should be a career ending situation.  I think he made a mistake and should apologize and move forward (and agree to let Kyle back in his class)  

[sheilaincali]

Hoops- I agree with you on that- yes a 12 lb sledge hammer has all the weigh concentrated in a smaller area and would do more damage.  However, hitting someone it the head will 11 lbs worth of books in a backpack is still not going to feel pleasant.

I'm assuming that the mom weighed the backpack given her specifically stating that it was 11 lbs.  Like I've said previously- she isn't given to drama and/or hysterics so I can only assume she had some concrete information to base her "11 lb" claim on.

[movingforward]

Oct 2, 2013 10:36:13 GMT -5 milee said:

Oct 2, 2013 10:03:46 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I remember I once had a Spanish teacher that dropped an eraser on a kid who fell asleep.  That was pretty funny actually... but an eraser is extremely light. 

We had a Geometry/Trig teacher who would toss erasers at people who were sleeping.  We all loved that guy, even those of us who had an eraser tossed at us.  99% of the time, the eraser didn't even touch the student, just land with a "thunk!" on the desk and kick up a huge, billowing cloud of chalk dust. 

I'm not condoning throwing things at kids and it's not something I would do, but as a parent of a high schooler in Geometry/Trig, I wouldn't complain about the eraser thing either.

Yeah, we all loved this Spanish teacher too.  My high school had no AC so on warm days we would have the windows open.  Sometimes she would stick her head out the window and scream when a student was clueless.  She was a trip!