The Oregon Bakery part lll

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

If the baker were really in the business of baking cakes, she would be focusing her attention on her business and making a profit/sale - instead of dragging her bias/prejudice in the door with her.

She could have baked the cake, collected her money, and gone on to her next order/sale.

Instead she let her personal hatred of a certain class of people influence her decision. This wouldn't even be being discussed/newsworthy if she'd just done what she was in the business to do.

Now she can bake her little cakes in her little kitchen at home. She won't be getting the same walk-in traffic or custom orders she once had - but that's the consequence she gets to live with.

All this negative publicity she's getting (by her own actions) is probably going to ruin her business completely. Word spreads like wildfire. Look how much it's being talked about here alone.

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 5, 2013 15:44:32 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I have no idea what I am.  I get yelled at over here for being a liberal. But over on YM when I say I wouldn't let my kid go goth I'm told I'm and overly controlling conservative who won't let my kid hypothetically express herself.

I'm so confused.

I'm a staunch conservative who doesnt' care if two lesbians want to marry (but I draw the line at the mullet ) and Im ok with limited gun control...realistically, if someone needs a gun RIGHT NOW and doesn't want to wait for a background check, that might be a person that we don't want having a gun....does that make me a liberal

[Deleted]

Sept 5, 2013 15:41:09 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 5, 2013 15:37:50 GMT -5 @financialtexan said:

What does it matter whether you agreed or disagreed with her? You've stated here over and over again that you are not a liberal. So if that's truly the case then why would you feel the need to respond to a post about "liberals" slamming her?

Umm, no.  Dj has repeatedly let people know he IS a liberal.

Since you are aware of these "I'm a liberal" posts by DJ...can you reference some posts for me? I'll be glad to admit I'm wrong if I truly am.

Siding with liberals on some things and truly identifying yourself as a liberal are not the same thing.

I'm sure DJ could also point me to these posts where he professes his liberalism.

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 5, 2013 15:49:35 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

If the baker were really in the business of baking cakes, she would be focusing her attention on her business and making a profit/sale - instead of dragging her bias/prejudice in the door with her.

She could have baked the cake, collected her money, and gone on to her next order/sale.

Instead she let her personal hatred of a certain class of people influence her decision. This wouldn't even be being discussed/newsworthy if she'd just done what she was in the business to do.

Now she can bake her little cakes in her little kitchen at home. She won't be getting the same walk-in traffic or custom orders she once had - but that's the consequence she gets to live with.

All this negative publicity she's getting (by her own actions) is probably going to ruin her business completely. Word spreads like wildfire. Look how much it's being talked about here alone.

Because she lives in liberal land I probably agree with you.  Because I feel her rights were trampled, I would actually make it a point to buy a cake from her if she were local....and I'm sure there are lots of conservatives who feel the same way.  She just needs to move to a less hippy dippy state

[Deleted]

Sept 5, 2013 15:52:16 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 5, 2013 15:49:35 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

If the baker were really in the business of baking cakes, she would be focusing her attention on her business and making a profit/sale - instead of dragging her bias/prejudice in the door with her.

She could have baked the cake, collected her money, and gone on to her next order/sale.

Instead she let her personal hatred of a certain class of people influence her decision. This wouldn't even be being discussed/newsworthy if she'd just done what she was in the business to do.

Now she can bake her little cakes in her little kitchen at home. She won't be getting the same walk-in traffic or custom orders she once had - but that's the consequence she gets to live with.

All this negative publicity she's getting (by her own actions) is probably going to ruin her business completely. Word spreads like wildfire. Look how much it's being talked about here alone.

Because she lives in liberal land I probably agree with you.  Because I feel her rights were trampled, I would actually make it a point to buy a cake from her if she were local....and I'm sure there are lots of conservatives who feel the same way.  She just needs to move to a less hippy dippy state

Their hippy diippy state doesn;t even allow gay to get married.

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 5, 2013 15:51:40 GMT -5 @financialtexan said:

Sept 5, 2013 15:41:09 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Umm, no.  Dj has repeatedly let people know he IS a liberal.

Since you are aware of these "I'm a liberal" posts by DJ...can you reference some posts for me? I'll be glad to admit I'm wrong if I truly am.

Siding with liberals on some things and truly identifying yourself as a liberal are not the same thing.

I'm sure DJ could also point me to these posts where he professes his liberalism.

Seriously...what is it with posters on Y&M wiht the "show me some posts to support what you said"....do you all have nothing better to do than dig through old posts to "prove" what you said??  I can't imagine caring enough to ask someone to copy posts to prove something to me.  I certainly don't care enough to find old posts to prove to someone else

[Miss Tequila]

Cripes...what the hell and I doing on P&M  I just realized I wrote YM and that this is NOT YM....how drunk was I when I started posting on this threadlol

[Miss Tequila]

And I need to stop putting three ? together...I keep getting creepy faces in my posts!

[Deleted]

Yeah, liberals suck the way they always want the facts to back stuff up...

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 5, 2013 15:53:24 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sept 5, 2013 15:52:16 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Because she lives in liberal land I probably agree with you.  Because I feel her rights were trampled, I would actually make it a point to buy a cake from her if she were local....and I'm sure there are lots of conservatives who feel the same way.  She just needs to move to a less hippy dippy state

Their hippy diippy state doesn;t even allow gay to get married.

LOL...that does make it even funnier....

[Deleted]

Sept 5, 2013 15:56:21 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 5, 2013 15:53:24 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Their hippy diippy state doesn;t even allow gay to get married.

LOL...that does make it even funnier....

Finally someone else sees the irony.

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 5, 2013 15:56:00 GMT -5 oped said:

Yeah, liberals suck the way they always want the facts to back stuff up...

That poster isn't a liberal...and asking for someone to find their own old posts to prove that they claimed to be a liberal is crazy....who cares if someone claimed or didn't claim to be a liberal?  geesh, you guys are nuts over here

[NancysSummerSip]

Sept 5, 2013 15:57:17 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 5, 2013 15:56:00 GMT -5 oped said:

Yeah, liberals suck the way they always want the facts to back stuff up...

That poster isn't a liberal...and asking for someone to find their own old posts to prove that they claimed to be a liberal is crazy....who cares if someone claimed or didn't claim to be a liberal?  geesh, you guys are nuts over here

And you're just finding this out?    I wandered over too, and my brain hurts admitting it.

[The Captain]

Sept 5, 2013 15:49:35 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

If the baker were really in the business of baking cakes, she would be focusing her attention on her business and making a profit/sale - instead of dragging her bias/prejudice in the door with her.

She could have baked the cake, collected her money, and gone on to her next order/sale.

Instead she let her personal hatred of a certain class of people influence her decision. This wouldn't even be being discussed/newsworthy if she'd just done what she was in the business to do.

Now she can bake her little cakes in her little kitchen at home. She won't be getting the same walk-in traffic or custom orders she once had - but that's the consequence she gets to live with.

All this negative publicity she's getting (by her own actions) is probably going to ruin her business completely. Word spreads like wildfire. Look how much it's being talked about here alone.

So everytime someone does not agree with someone it amounts to hatred in your book?

Good to know.

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 5, 2013 16:07:30 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Sept 5, 2013 15:28:34 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I got slammed for that, too....and I still stand by that.  If I were the bakers and I knew that they would file a complaint which would ruin me, I would totally fuckk up their cake....

But if you were the baker and you had made them the cake, they would not have filed a compalint.  <<pats Tina on the head>>  You're so pretty...  

I know!lol  But I'm saying if I could see the future and what would have happened (I can't obviously) I would have made it but fucked it up just for spite...because I feel them filing the complaint was done out of spite. 

[mmhmm]

Sept 5, 2013 15:51:40 GMT -5 @financialtexan said:

Sept 5, 2013 15:41:09 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Umm, no.  Dj has repeatedly let people know he IS a liberal.

Since you are aware of these "I'm a liberal" posts by DJ...can you reference some posts for me? I'll be glad to admit I'm wrong if I truly am.

Siding with liberals on some things and truly identifying yourself as a liberal are not the same thing.

I'm sure DJ could also point me to these posts where he professes his liberalism.

Reply #120 on this thread, this page should serve your needs nicely, FinancialTexan.  Any further evidence you need should be supplied by dj, if he wishes to do so.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Well, she'd baked orders for the woman/women before. But because of her bias and prejudice toward gays (which is a form a hatred), she refused tis order for them because it was a wedding cake for a gay marriage.

It was her choice, of course - but she wouldn't be facing the repercussions of having to shut down her store and move her business into her home -r have the incident plastered all over the media/internet/blogs if she'd just baked the damned cake and collected her fee.

If her business now fails, she can look in the mirror to find out why that is.

[Deleted]

Sept 5, 2013 16:12:13 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Well, she'd baked orders for the woman/women before. But because of her bias and prejudice toward gays (which is a form a hatred), she refused tis order for them because it was a wedding cake for a gay marriage.

It was her choice, of course - but she wouldn't be facing the repercussions of having to shut down her store and move her business into her home -r have the incident plastered all over the media/internet/blogs if she'd just baked the damned cake and collected her fee.

If her business now fails, she can look in the mirror to find out why that is.

All things happen but for the grace of God.

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 5, 2013 16:12:13 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Well, she'd baked orders for the woman/women before. But because of her bias and prejudice toward gays (which is a form a hatred), she refused tis order for them because it was a wedding cake for a gay marriage.

It was her choice, of course - but she wouldn't be facing the repercussions of having to shut down her store and move her business into her home -r have the incident plastered all over the media/internet/blogs if she'd just baked the damned cake and collected her fee.

If her business now fails, she can look in the mirror to find out why that is.

or...she claimed to be booked that weekend.....

She can look in the mirror and be proud that she stood behind her morals...she can also realize that she was dumb in the way she went about it

[Deleted]

I don't even look where threads originate anymore. I just use New Thread...

[Deleted]

Sept 5, 2013 16:10:08 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Sept 5, 2013 15:51:40 GMT -5 @financialtexan said:

Since you are aware of these "I'm a liberal" posts by DJ...can you reference some posts for me? I'll be glad to admit I'm wrong if I truly am.

Siding with liberals on some things and truly identifying yourself as a liberal are not the same thing.

I'm sure DJ could also point me to these posts where he professes his liberalism.

Reply #120 on this thread, this page should serve your needs nicely, FinancialTexan.  Any further evidence you need should be supplied by dj, if he wishes to do so.

After the fact of my post..but as I've looked through the last 34 pages of his posts, he's mentioned that he's a liberal exactly twice that I could see and one is the post you are referencing so I was wrong. While he doesn't mention that he's a liberal "all the time" as you incorrectly suggested...he has in fact said he's a liberal....at least as far back as I can go...

[Deleted]

Sept 5, 2013 15:54:09 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Sept 5, 2013 15:51:40 GMT -5 @financialtexan said:

Since you are aware of these "I'm a liberal" posts by DJ...can you reference some posts for me? I'll be glad to admit I'm wrong if I truly am.

Siding with liberals on some things and truly identifying yourself as a liberal are not the same thing.

I'm sure DJ could also point me to these posts where he professes his liberalism.

Seriously...what is it with posters on Y&M wiht the "show me some posts to support what you said"....do you all have nothing better to do than dig through old posts to "prove" what you said??  I can't imagine caring enough to ask someone to copy posts to prove something to me.  I certainly don't care enough to find old posts to prove to someone else

I'm sure it has to do with the same thing when a liberal or conservative posts a link to from Breitbart or Huffington Post and a poster comes in and says....."Yeah...but that's HuffPo! Can you find a credible link".

[Virgil Showlion]

Instead she let her personal hatred of a certain class of people influence her decision.

Can you truly not discern between hatred of an act or ideology and hatred of an individual?

Am I just a mindless hater of homosexuals in your mind?

Am I necessarily a hater of men who practice or condone an act if I hate the act itself?

Am I like-minded to men who seek out, beat and torture homosexuals, differing only in the sense that I do not act out on my hatred?

Considering the clear and profound hatred being expressed for fundamentalist Christian 'homophobic' views on homosexuality, and considering most here would claim not to hate Christians who hold these views, I would think you fathom the distinction. Furthermore I would think that you'd extend us and the bakery owners the decency of respecting it in your writing.

I do not "personally hate" homosexuals. You may refuse to believe it, but the bakery owners' comments makes a compelling case that their decision was based on principle and that they do not "personally hate" homosexuals.

Some posters throw around "hateful bigots" like lawnmowers chewing up dog feces. Their predilections are known and their arguments are largely ignored. But for the rest of you, if you have any interest whatsoever in assaying the minds of your opponents, respect and acknowledge in your writing the distinction between hatred of person and hatred of action/ideology.

[Miss Tequila]

Sept 5, 2013 16:23:53 GMT -5 @missmargarita said:

Sept 5, 2013 15:54:57 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Cripes...what the hell and I doing on P&M  I just realized I wrote YM and that this is NOT YM....how drunk was I when I started posting on this threadlol

It's like going out drinking the night before and waking up the next morning not knowing where your pants are...

Pft, like anyone believes you ever wear pants

[Virgil Showlion]

Well, she'd baked orders for the woman/women before. But because of her bias and prejudice toward gays (which is a form a hatred), she refused tis order for them because it was a wedding cake for a gay marriage.

This fact is the greatest proof we have that the bakery owner didn't hate the lesbian couple.

She knew their orientation. She baked them cakes as she would anyone else.

When it came to contributing to their wedding, she took a principled stand. She would not contribute to such a celebration. In her mind, such a contribution would constitute condoning the act. Condoning the act is not only undesirable, Christian doctrine makes it clear that it is also immoral.

We've debated for nearly 50 pages now whether this judgment call was legal, moral, sensible, etc. My point here is that it in no way constitutes "personal hatred" for the couple, and I've seen nothing in half a dozen articles documenting the story to justify such a claim.

[The Captain]

Sept 5, 2013 16:12:13 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Well, she'd baked orders for the woman/women before. But because of her bias and prejudice toward gays (which is a form a hatred), she refused tis order for them because it was a wedding cake for a gay marriage.

It was her choice, of course - but she wouldn't be facing the repercussions of having to shut down her store and move her business into her home -r have the incident plastered all over the media/internet/blogs if she'd just baked the damned cake and collected her fee.

If her business now fails, she can look in the mirror to find out why that is.

So again even though she served these customers in the past you call her disagreement with their desire to marry the equivalent of hate?

To me hate represents a very strong and active emotion, which is not what I see from this woman since she willingly engaged in transactions with the women before.  She took a stand (which I don't necessarily agree with) on her convictions and appears to be willing to abide by the consquences.

I didn't see anything in the news about the bakery owner bombing gay weddings or picketing gay unions, that to me is more indicative of a level of personal emotional antithesis that rises to the level of hate.

To me bias and prejudice is more of a form of lack of information/understanding/compassion than an active strong negative emotion. 

[mmhmm]

Sept 5, 2013 16:19:44 GMT -5 @financialtexan said:

Sept 5, 2013 16:10:08 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Reply #120 on this thread, this page should serve your needs nicely, FinancialTexan.  Any further evidence you need should be supplied by dj, if he wishes to do so.

After the fact of my post..but as I've looked through the last 34 pages of his posts, he's mentioned that he's a liberal exactly twice that I could see and one is the post you are referencing so I was wrong. While he doesn't mention that he's a liberal "all the time" as you incorrectly suggested...he has in fact said he's a liberal....at least as far back as I can go...

Ahem.  This is what I posted:

"Umm, no. Dj has repeatedly let people know he IS a liberal."

Now, can you show me where in what I posted I indicate dj is a liberal "all the time"?  I can't know that, can I?  He might be a liberal only on Wednesday afternoons, for all I know.  The point is he's repeatedly said he's a liberal and he's told you again today he's a liberal.  If you have a problem with that, take it up with dj.  I'm through with your silly game.

[Tennesseer]

I am not so sure this woman/these women were past customers of this bakery.  

I believe there is confusion with a case in Washington state where two men, regular customers of a florist, asked the florist to provide flowers for their upcoming wedding.  While the florist had served the men plenty of times in the past, she refused to provide flowers for their wedding based upon her religious beliefs.

This Washington case was previously discussed on these boards.

Barronelle Stutzman, Arlene's Flower Shop Florist, Refuses Washington Gay Wedding Job Because Of Religion

[mmhmm]

I have seen no indication the bakery owners hated anybody.  All I've seen is that they refused to supply a wedding cake to a specific party when they are in business to sell wedding cakes to the general public.  Their refusal broke the law.  That's it.  That's all.  No indication of hatred to be found.

[mmhmm]

Sept 5, 2013 16:53:02 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I am not so sure this woman/these women were past customers of this bakery.  

I believe there is confusion with a case in Washington state where two men, regular customers of a florist, asked the florist to provide flowers for their upcoming wedding.  While the florist had served the men plenty of times in the past, she refused to provide flowers for their wedding based upon her religious beliefs.

This Washington case was previously discussed on these boards.

Barronelle Stutzman, Arlene's Flower Shop Florist, Refuses Washington Gay Wedding Job Because Of Religion

No, tennesseer.  These women were customers of the bakery.  One of them had bought a wedding cake at this bakery before.  The wedding cake was for her mother's wedding, I believe.