kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Sept 5, 2013 14:13:23 GMT -5
If I am reading these posts correctly, the fact that they discriminated is ok but the fact that they were stupid enough to tell them why they deserve to be in trouble
No it's not but I'm not naive enough to believe it doesn't happen. I have no proof I've ever had it held against me I'm a woman, married or a mom but probably at some point it's happened. Employers don't tell me why they didn't hire me because they could face litigation. I have people ignore me in stores all the time, their reasons can be numerous and probably some I disagree and if voiced out loud would be violating something or other but since I can't read their minds I have no clue. I'm not the thought police. I have no problems with their beliefs about gay marriage and I have no problem with them not being comfortable making a wedding cake. They are free to believe whatever they want to believe. I disagree but it's not my life. But that's PERSONAL, not business. Don't mix the two because this is exactly what happens. I also think businesses have the right to refuse service. Doesn't make why you're doing it okay with me but it their business not mine. If they want to refuse service that's their call but give a business reason for the refusal, not a personal one. I don't disagree about lying about the reason. I said I would do it yesterday and then got slammed by the liberals...I guess you can't win here :-) Well if I were in business for myself (TG I'm not!) and knew/accepted that I had to obey certain rules as part of being and staying in business in a world larger than me-and-my-peeps-and-what-we-think, I would certainly learn to keep my mouth shut about my personal beliefs if I knew they were contrary to the rules of business and were going to get me in trouble. That's not lying, that's keeping my mouth shut and my opinions to myself. YMMV. It is perfectly legal to refuse business without giving a reason. It is perfectly moral to keep your opinions and beliefs to yourself - that's not lying. It is perfectly stupid to refuse business and give a discriminatory reason. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 14:49:14 GMT -5
this is precisely it. but Virgil seems to think not telling them that you are "not going to make a queerbo wedding cake" is somehow lying. in my world, it is called BEING DIPLOMATIC. And this is where I am going to call a lot of you hypocrites. If I am reading these posts correctly, the fact that they discriminated is ok but the fact that they were stupid enough to tell them why they deserve to be in trouble. So honesty is bad? Those shoes are ugly... |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2013 14:49:38 GMT -5
The joke was NOT pulled do to sensitivity of gay issues. It was pulled because it is not PG-13, and therefore is against the Code of Conduct set up by ProBoards. If we violate that this whole board can be shut down for good. This does not offend our sensibilities, it offends our hosts sensibilities. Therefore, any post that is not suitable for PG-13 audiences will continue to be pulled. deminmaine- Moderator.  Who determines what is considered PG-13? the fascist church marms at the MPAA. don't get me started. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2013 14:51:05 GMT -5
If I am reading these posts correctly, the fact that they discriminated is ok but the fact that they were stupid enough to tell them why they deserve to be in trouble
No it's not but I'm not naive enough to believe it doesn't happen. I have no proof I've ever had it held against me I'm a woman, married or a mom but probably at some point it's happened. Employers don't tell me why they didn't hire me because they could face litigation. I have people ignore me in stores all the time, their reasons can be numerous and probably some I disagree and if voiced out loud would be violating something or other but since I can't read their minds I have no clue. I'm not the thought police. I have no problems with their beliefs about gay marriage and I have no problem with them not being comfortable making a wedding cake. They are free to believe whatever they want to believe. I disagree but it's not my life. But that's PERSONAL, not business. Don't mix the two because this is exactly what happens. I also think businesses have the right to refuse service. Doesn't make why you're doing it okay with me but it their business not mine. If they want to refuse service that's their call but give a business reason for the refusal, not a personal one. I don't disagree about lying about the reason. I said I would do it yesterday and then got slammed by the liberals...I guess you can't win here :-) did you? i remember agreeing with you. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 14:52:03 GMT -5
I think you got slammed for saying you would mess up their cake and then sell it to them, or give it to them too late for the problem to be rectified...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2013 14:52:45 GMT -5
I don't disagree about lying about the reason. I said I would do it yesterday and then got slammed by the liberals...I guess you can't win here :-) Well if I were in business for myself (TG I'm not!) and knew/accepted that I had to obey certain rules as part of being and staying in business in a world larger than me-and-my-peeps-and-what-we-think, I would certainly learn to keep my mouth shut about my personal beliefs if I knew they were contrary to the rules of business and were going to get me in trouble. That's not lying, that's keeping my mouth shut and my opinions to myself. YMMV. It is perfectly legal to refuse business without giving a reason. It is perfectly moral to keep your opinions and beliefs to yourself - that's not lying. It is perfectly stupid to refuse business and give a discriminatory reason. it might be worse- it might be openly contemptuous of the law. which is fine, if you are in mind for a battle. i have no objection to that, obviously. it is all of the high pitched howling about it that bothers me. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2013 14:55:05 GMT -5
this is precisely it. but Virgil seems to think not telling them that you are "not going to make a queerbo wedding cake" is somehow lying. in my world, it is called BEING DIPLOMATIC. And this is where I am going to call a lot of you hypocrites. If I am reading these posts correctly, the fact that they discriminated is ok but the fact that they were stupid enough to tell them why they deserve to be in trouble. i don't use the word "deserve". that is between God and them. i used the term "expect". so did mmhmm.So honesty is bad? no. but honesty can be hurtful, mean, and possibly illegal, depending on the circumstances. if you are good with all that, then by all means, be honest. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 14:55:29 GMT -5
the fascist church marms at the MPAA. don't get me started. Have you seen a PG-13 movie recently? |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2013 14:56:42 GMT -5
No, discrimination is bad. Their religion may not call it discrimination, but the law does. Like it or not, there it is. I'm not disagreeing that the law does. The fact that I disgree with the law doesn't mean it isn't the law. But I am reading some of these posts in this thread and seeing "they should have been smart in their discrimination".....so discriminating but concealing it is ok?? i wouldn't say "OK", i would say "smart". |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 14:56:49 GMT -5
And honestly, yes, hidden, silent discrimination is a step towards the witling away of discrimination. It is hard to change people's minds when they are set in their ways. But if you can just get them to shut up about it... then it is much easier for the next generation to just accept tolerance as normal/ not adopt the same discriminations.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2013 14:57:03 GMT -5
the fascist church marms at the MPAA. don't get me started. Have you seen a PG-13 movie recently? are they still not showing men's asses? |
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 5, 2013 14:59:37 GMT -5
Have you seen a PG-13 movie recently? are they still not showing men's asses? and WHY exactly would that interest you DJ?  |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2013 15:01:03 GMT -5
And honestly, yes, hidden, silent discrimination is a step towards the witling away of discrimination. It is hard to change people's minds when they are set in their ways. But if you can just get them to shut up about it... then it is much easier for the next generation to just accept tolerance as normal/ not adopt the same discriminations. this is precisely my position. discrimination needs to be carefully taught, reinforced, and socially accepted. if it is NONE of these things, it will die a quiet death. and good riddance. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2013 15:02:11 GMT -5
are they still not showing men's asses? and WHY exactly would that interest you DJ? i blame Chick-Fil-A. however, it makes little sense that you can show someone (usually guy) getting 5 rounds put in their ass, but never once see one bare butt. oh, but women's asses are perfectly fine. the MPAA is a really strange bunch. |
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Sept 5, 2013 15:08:09 GMT -5
And honestly, yes, hidden, silent discrimination is a step towards the witling away of discrimination. It is hard to change people's minds when they are set in their ways. But if you can just get them to shut up about it... then it is much easier for the next generation to just accept tolerance as normal/ not adopt the same discriminations. Exactly. No one is born a bigot. Think about it. ETA: dj beat me to it. |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 5, 2013 15:23:26 GMT -5
I don't disagree about lying about the reason. I said I would do it yesterday and then got slammed by the liberals...I guess you can't win here :-) did you? i remember agreeing with you. Sorry...i lumped all liberals together, which was wrong...some agreed with me, but a bunch jumped on the "well lying is ALL Christian" attitude...so I thought it was funny that self-proclaimed liberals (that isn't meant as a slam!) agreed that they should have lied....but neither you or DQ were the ones jumping my ass...and not in a good way  |
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 5, 2013 15:24:21 GMT -5
and WHY exactly would that interest you DJ? i blame Chick-Fil-A. however, it makes little sense that you can show someone (usually guy) getting 5 rounds put in their ass, but never once see one bare butt. oh, but women's asses are perfectly fine. the MPAA is a really strange bunch. I'm pretty sure I can't see a guy getting 5 rounds up the ass...wait, are we talking about the same thing? |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 5, 2013 15:28:34 GMT -5
I think you got slammed for saying you would mess up their cake and then sell it to them, or give it to them too late for the problem to be rectified... I got slammed for that, too....and I still stand by that. If I were the bakers and I knew that they would file a complaint which would ruin me, I would totally fuckk up their cake.... |
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 5, 2013 15:35:09 GMT -5
You didn't mention anything about doing it if you knew they were going to file a complaint - you just said you'd totally F-up their cake and time it so that the problem couldn't be rectified before the wedding.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 15:36:50 GMT -5
I think you got slammed for saying you would mess up their cake and then sell it to them, or give it to them too late for the problem to be rectified... I got slammed for that, too....and I still stand by that. If I were the bakers and I knew that they would file a complaint which would ruin me, I would totally fuckk up their cake.... What, like making it with man milk? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 15:37:50 GMT -5
did you? i remember agreeing with you. What does it matter whether you agreed or disagreed with her? You've stated here over and over again that you are not a liberal. So if that's truly the case then why would you feel the need to respond to a post about "liberals" slamming her? |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 5, 2013 15:38:12 GMT -5
You didn't mention anything about doing it if you knew they were going to file a complaint - you just said you'd totally F-up their cake and time it so that the problem couldn't be rectified before the wedding. Umm...I clearly said SAID times that I have the benefit of playing MOnday Morning Quarterback and if I KNEW that me declining to make their cake would cause them to file a complaint that I would definitely have made them a fucked up cake. Go back and read what I wrote... |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 5, 2013 15:40:12 GMT -5
I think most people said you were entitled to do whatever you liked, Miss Tequila, as long as you were prepared to suffer the consequences if your choice brought them upon you. If I remember correctly, that was fine with you. In that case, I don't think there's much disagreement. While people might not agree with your choice, it's certainly yours to make.
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steff
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Post by steff on Sept 5, 2013 15:40:58 GMT -5
This "self proclaimed liberal" doesn't think lying is the answer. I think don't be a bigot & don't use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against others is the answer.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 5, 2013 15:41:09 GMT -5
What does it matter whether you agreed or disagreed with her? You've stated here over and over again that you are not a liberal. So if that's truly the case then why would you feel the need to respond to a post about "liberals" slamming her? Umm, no. Dj has repeatedly let people know he IS a liberal. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2013 15:42:58 GMT -5
What does it matter whether you agreed or disagreed with her? You've stated here over and over again that you are not a liberal. au contraire. i have stated over and over again that i AM a liberal. check your notes. |
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 5, 2013 15:43:52 GMT -5
I got slammed for that, too....and I still stand by that. If I were the bakers and I knew that they would file a complaint which would ruin me, I would totally fuckk up their cake.... What, like making it with man milk? Ewww...while that would be tempting, no I would never do something like that...disgusting. But I would find a way to sabotage the cake...forget the sugar or fuck up the decorations....hey,. they wanted me to make them a cake so I made them their f'n cake! Adn again, I am speaking as if I cared that lesbians got married (I don't) and someone who wouldn't sell to the devil for the right price :-p |
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 5, 2013 15:44:32 GMT -5
I have no idea what I am. I get yelled at over here for being a liberal. But over on YM when I say I wouldn't let my kid go goth I'm told I'm and overly controlling conservative who won't let my kid hypothetically express herself. I'm so confused.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2013 15:45:40 GMT -5
I have no idea what I am. I get yelled at over here for being a liberal. But over on YM when I say I wouldn't let my kid go goth I'm told I'm and overly controlling conservative who won't let my kid hypothetically express herself. I'm so confused. You're a sheeple like 85% of the population. |
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 5, 2013 15:48:38 GMT -5
You're a sheeple like 85% of the population.
Great, I'm allergic to wool. 
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