Economic Collapse Thread Recovery

[traelin0]

Stay Put
Message #1592 - 08/08/10 02:28 PM

Quotes on Government:

1. In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress.
-- John Adams
2. If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.
-- Mark Twain
3. Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But then I repeat myself.
-- Mark Twain
4. I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
-- Winston Churchill
5. A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
-- George Bernard Shaw
6. A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.
-- G. Gordon Liddy
7. Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
-- James Bovard, Civil Libertarian (1994)
8. Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries.
-- Douglas Casey, Classmate of Bill Clinton at Georgetown University
9. Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
-- P.J. O'Rourke, Civil Libertarian
10. Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
-- Frederic Bastiat, French Economist
(1801-1850)
11. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
-- Ronald Reagan (1986)
12. I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.
-- Will Rogers
13. If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free!
-- P.J. O'Rourke
14. In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the
citizens to give to the other.
-- Voltaire (1764)
15. Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you!
-- Pericles (430 B.C.)
16. No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session.
-- Mark Twain (1866)
17. Talk is cheap...except when Congress does it.
-- Anonymous
18. The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the other.
-- Ronald Reagan
19. The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
-- Winston Churchill
20. The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin.
-- Mark Twain
21. The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English
Philosopher (1820-1903)
22. There is no distinctly native American criminal class...save Congress.
-- Mark Twain
23. What this country needs are more unemployed politicians.
-- Edward Langley, Artist (1928-1995)
24. A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
-- Thomas Jefferson

[traelin0]

ReformedDayTrade
Message #1593 - 08/10/10 04:21 AM

From Newsone.com:

Glenn Beck compared Obama's America to "the damn Planet of the Apes," Thursday during a rant against the president's praise for the AFL-CIO.

Beck made the comparison while trying to blame union support of strong pensions for the nation's high unemployment rate. He doesn't like that former SEIU president Andy Stern sits on the president's panel on deficit reduction.

The segment's accompanying online article omits the Fox News host's Planet of the Apes comparison.

Click here to watch the video.

[traelin0]

Stay Put
Message #1594 - 08/10/10 04:48 PM

Pressure mounts on Fed to save recovery

Curious. If we are supposedly in a solid recovery, why does it need to be saved? Wouldn't a recovery be self sustaining if it is a "true recovery"?

[traelin0]

Stay Put
Message #1595 - 08/10/10 05:01 PM

ReformedDayTrade
Message #1593 - 08/10/10 04:21 AM
Glenn Beck compared Obama's America to "the damn Planet of the Apes," Thursday during a rant against the president's praise for the AFL-CIO.

Beck did not compare the President to Planet of the Apes, but the completely upside down world of Obama's administration in dealings with both America and the Unions. Only a true bigoted racist would take what Beck said completely out of context and make it into a racial slur that was NEVER intended or stated.

[traelin0]

ReformedDayTrade
Message #1596 - 08/10/10 05:05 PM

newsone.com/nation/newsonestaff5/glenn-beck-obamas-america-is-planet-of-apes-video/

[traelin0]

Stay Put
Message #1597 - 08/10/10 05:54 PM

Now, as to the "recovery" needing life support.......................

[traelin0]

LongSam
Message #1599 - 08/10/10 09:13 PM

Cedaredge, camouflage all you want we still know who you are attacking. See you in a week.

Sam/MSN Money Moderator

[traelin0]

ReformedDayTrade
Message #1600 - 08/10/10 10:26 PM

BREAKINGVIEWS-Fed reinvestment decision points policy wrong way


Tuesday 10 August 2010, 19:44 GMT (3:44pm EST)


-- The author is a Reuters Breakingviews columnist. The opinions expressed are his own --


By Martin Hutchinson

WASHINGTON, Aug 10 (Reuters Breakingviews) - The Fed has pointed its policy the wrong way. Spooked by slowing growth, the Federal Open Market Committee decided to loosen money marginally at its latest meeting on Tuesday. This was done by agreeing to reinvest the runoff in the central bank's agency and mortgage-backed securities portfolio into longer-term government debt.

However, weaker productivity has now joined rising global prices to add to U.S. inflationary pressure. The result is that the Fed has put itself in position to lag any economic shift.

The FOMC appears to have reacted to the slowing pace of recovery in output and employment. The small directional adjustment is more important than the policy itself. The Fed's holdings of agency and mortgage-backed securities averaged $1.3 trillion in the week of Aug. 4, or just $40 billion more than in the week of March 31, when Fed purchases of such securities were supposed to have ended. Overall, the Fed's balance sheet increased over the same period by a mere $19 billion, to $2.3 trillion. Thus, a decision to strictly reinvest maturing securities will not significantly alter the balance sheet trend.

Though prices may be stagnant in the United States, they are not so everywhere. Global commodity and energy markets continue to exert upward pressure, with new highs in copper, tin and wheat. Moreover, the rapidly growing economies of China and India, where wages and prices are rising, seem likely to feed through to U.S. goods and services imports in coming months.

Add to that the latest quarterly U.S. productivity report. It suggests the rapid productivity growth during the recession has ceased. The trend may be good news for unemployed American workers, but it's bad news for corporate profits, prices -- or, very likely, both.

Thomas Hoenig rightly wanted to nudge the Fed in the other direction. The president of the regional Fed bank in Kansas City recommended the FOMC remove its "extended period" language for maintaining current ultra-low rates to give itself flexibility to tighten rapidly if it proves necessary. That would seem a wise precaution; the number of inflationary signs is outpacing the deflationary ones, and popping up fast enough that a swift and powerful Fed response could become necessary.

CONTEXT NEWS

-- The Federal Open Market Committee at its meeting Aug. 10 maintained the target range for the federal funds rate at 0 to 0.25 percent and "continues to anticipate that economic conditions, including low rates of resource utilization, subdued inflation trends, and stable inflation expectations, are likely to warrant exceptionally levels of the federal funds rate for an extended period."

-- The Fed also announced that "to help support the economic recovery in a context of price stability," the FOMC would keep constant the Fed's holdings of securities at their current level by reinvesting principal payments from agency debt and agency mortgage-backed securities in longer-term Treasury securities.

-- Non-farm business productivity fell at a 0.9 percent annual rate in the second quarter of 2010, with output rising at 2.6 percent and hours rising at 3.6 percent. From the second quarter of 2009, both output and productivity increased 3.9 percent; hours were unchanged.

-- FOMC statement: link.reuters.com/hur34n

-- Federal Reserve release H4.1 "Factors affecting Reserve Balances": link.reuters.com/meq23h

-- Bureau of Labor Statistics Q2 productivity and costs release: link.reuters.com/nyr34n


-- For previous columns by the author, Reuters customers can click on [HUTCH/]

(Editing by Jeffrey Goldfarb and Martin Langfield)

(([e-mail])) Keywords: BREAKINGVIEWS FED/

[traelin0]

Stay Put
Message #1601 - 08/10/10 10:58 PM

PORKULUS II BILL


There will be a vote tomorrow on the second Stimulus bill. Talking points and targeted Congressmen to contact are listed below.

Porkulus II: States Held Hostage


Why is Congress demanding governors and mayors fire teachers, cops, and firefighters before cutting ridiculous spending like this:

$120,000,000 spent on state-run liquor stores - Washington State

$39,608,662 spent on neighborhood & recreational services - Newark, New Jersey

$7,000,000 spent on museums - Oakland, California

$1,607,367 spent on awards and prizes at county fairs - Illinois

$1,000,000 spent on mural art - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

$750,000 spent on the opera house - Baltimore, Maryland


The Porkulus II:

Forces states to take bailout dollars, bypassing Governors who refuse the money, and forbidding them from making necessary budget cuts.

Gives teachers unions roughly $50 - $100 million through trickle-down.

Will increase the deficit by $12.6 billion, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Will result in a permanent tax increase of $9.7 billion for U.S. multinational companies - increasing the cost of doing business and risking jobs during the recession. (Interestingly, the revenue from these same tax increases have already been spent...twice, in two other pieces of legislation!)


The fact is the federal government cannot afford to bailout states who refuse to cut back spending. In case Nancy Pelosi forgot, the American people still fund the federal government. If states can't afford it, neither can the federal government. Bailing out states and extending failed stimulus programs only perpetuates states' reliance on the federal government.




State Bailouts

This week Speaker Pelosi has called the House of Representatives back to Congress. The intent is to spend another $26.1 Billion. The House of Representatives will vote on 2 bills this week:


1. HR 1586, which was originally a House FAA bill and has now been replaced as a $26.1 billion bailout that includes $10 billion to teacher salaries and $16.1 billion for extension of Federal Medicaid matching rates.

Read additional commentary by Heritage on the bill here.
Read commentary from the Evergreen Foundation about the State Bailouts here.


2. The House will take up the privileged resolution that Congressman Tom Price has introduced to insure there is not a lame duck session of Congress unless there is an emergency. It is our understanding that since this is a privileged resolution it cannot be blocked from being voted.

[traelin0]

Goober Steve
Message #1602 - 08/10/10 10:58 PM

Even the MSM or PRAVDA as I call it these days is starting to fade on Obamanomics. I notice in many other outlets, comments starting to realize the jig is up, CNN/Fox/Bloomberg/WSJ/and yes even CNBC is sartiong to realize a smal bit of reality. I have been catching the swings on a regular basis and piing up cash waiting for the opportune time to convert it. Tried to warn some of you and inform, but the horse to water thing ............ ;D


www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-11/u-s-is-bankrupt-and-we-don-t-even-know-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html


The ES is tanking tonite in asia so SP futures will be down in AM likely, still have europe to go though? All you that went long on hope are now screwed. The rest of this year and as far as the eye can see is not a good picture. This has been obvious for over a year, so probably time to pay attention. SP 9500 or lower right around the corner, the election pump is all that is holding it together. A few fake rallies here and there, but based on what? Good luck, your gonna need it!

[stayput]

traelin0, how the hell can your last post be at 11:44 when I don't even have 11:00 PM (EST)?

[stayput]

You are being lied to by those in Washington when the average person cannot easily discern the facts. You are lying to yourself when you refuse to look at the facts.

Stay Put
Full Member
(for now)

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Kindly illustrate from history the great nation that taxed, spent, and regulated itself into prosperity? It hasn't happened. Rather, overburdensome regulation, heavy taxation, and profligate spending are usually what precipitate the collapse of great empires.

In all of human history, ONLY America has experienced real freedom underpinned by a belief that there is in fact a higher power than government- God; and that this Creator God has endowed the individual with rights, and that the only legitimate purpose of government is to acknowledge, protect, and defend our rights.

There have been many nations who play at freedom- but a close look at Europe exposes a kind of soft tyranny enabled by an American military defense welfare program that permitted them to be soft, lazy, and continue to ignore genuine threats.

It's easy to believe that we can legislate ourselves out of the mess we are in, but the problems we face are not the problem, but the symptoms of the problem. The problem we face is progressivism. Oh, you can call it communism, socialism, social democracy, state capitalism, or dress it up any way you please-- but at the root of ALL of our problems is a belief that we can have, through tax-and-spend policies, a man-made utopia where everyone is healthy, well-nurished, and sheltered; everyone is civil and those who aren't can be "reformed", and nobody ever ever, no matter what, gets their feelings hurt.

The result is that problems that once might have been easy to solve have become impossibly complicated. When internationally recognized authority on civilization, Phil Donahue when Phil said, "The problem with conservatives is that they always suggest simple solutions to complex problems", Cal Thomas correctly responded, "The problem is that we've ignored simple solutions for so long that the problems have become complex".

We have responded to out of control spending with more taxes of all kinds, and we've mislabeled many of them "fees" or anything other than taxes.

The solution is to cut spending. It is to admit that it'd be "nice" to have certain programs, but that we can't afford it so we aren't going to have them. It'd be nice if we could increase spending on essential programs (which are very few) every year, but the reality is that even for essential government programs there's only so much money and so the job must be done with what we have.

We responded to the failure of a giant, bloated, too-many-layered, unaccountable national security bureaucracy on 9.11.01 with the creation of more layers of bureaucracy. Has anyone yet lost their job as a result of 9.11.01?

The solution is a smaller, streamlined, more agile national defense program with clear, transparent, INDIVIDUAL accountability for decisions made.

We have a government run school monopoly that is failing by every objective measure a thoughtful person would care to cite. The solution is always more money, and bigger bureaucracy. More testing, more this, more that.

The solution is breaking up the monopoly. It is to get out of the way, give parents- not government- the final say about where their kids go to school AND what they learn while they are there. It is to fire poorly performing teachers, and close the doors of poorly performing schools.

It's interesting to note that education is a great place to look for the solution to just about every other problem. What works? Well, for the last 15 years educational success as been found in home-schooling. Individuals do the BEST job. After home schooled kids, private school students perform best, then charter schools, then public schools forced into competition / choice with other public schools, and rounding out the bottom are the forced government monopoly schools. The lesson is clear- things are best handled as close to the individual level as possible-- and that includes education, national defense, and providing for our own personal welfare.

[Deleted]

Palmbeachpaul, I agree with you! However I feel that...

In all of human history, ONLY America has experienced real freedom underpinned by a belief that there is in fact a higher power than government- God; and that this Creator God has endowed the individual with rights, and that the only legitimate purpose of government is to acknowledge, protect, and defend our rights.

We have strayed from this fundamental element of our nation.

My mom was a (good) public school teacher who became sick and tired of receiving the same benefits/pay as the teachers who did the least amount of mediocre work they could get away with. It makes me sick that some teachers are rewarded for second(or third)-rate skills when it involves our future, but there is just no incentive today with unions, government reform, etc

I have been doing research on home-schooling and if I can only convince dh that is the way I want to go. I can't imagine anything more fulfilling than to raise our children with self-driven initiative to learn the truth. However, even with homeschooling there are now regulations that have to be met (albeit these are state laws, now) and I'm almost positive that with it's recent growth (some numbers are estimating 4-6% of all children in US are home-schooled) the federal government will try to regulate for the "safety of our children".

When did we give the government the right to decide what's best for our children?

[deziloooooo]

I guess I am to old to really understand the "home schooling " yet i give those who do it a thumbs up as it has to be a large chore. I have a problem with those who do it because they are not happy with what is taught or thought of thinking what is taught as agains their what evers.
I guess I feelo this way because as i have said before, my four grand kids are getting a great education so far in the public sector..this I know from their parents who are into the education of the kids and are aware of what they are learning and involved in the schools.

[stayput]

So what did I miss?

[lakhota]

Only the fictitious apocalypse you predicted.

[stayput]

Jan 2, 2011 0:37:53 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

Only the fictitious apocalypse you predicted.

lachota. You so funny. You make me laugh long time.
When it does happen, I and others will then be laughing at you, and those like you, as you stand in line for your ration of soup.

[lakhota]

Glenn Beck and Survival Seed Bank will protect me.

[stayput]

Jan 2, 2011 0:49:21 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

Glenn Beck and Survival Seed Bank will protect me.

So you can be taught! ;D

[deziloooooo]

Jan 2, 2011 0:49:21 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

Glenn Beck and Survival Seed Bank will protect me.

I am thinking that one deserves in the book of one liners....Ok, thought about it, so preposterouse..it's in .

[Virgil Showlion]

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VirgilBot TP v0.02 Started Thread Port on 01/03/2011

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[Virgil Showlion]

ReformedDayTrade
Message #1603 - 08/11/10 11:04 AM

Asian Companies [topnewsbanker.reuters.com/topnews/genStory.aspx?id=nN05228477&imageid=&page=SP_PAGE_004&pv=&alertpg=true] Previous Article 3 of 16 [topnewsbanker.reuters.com/topnews/genStory.aspx?id=.T&imageid=&page=SP_PAGE_004&pv=&alertpg=true] Next Article Print Article ANALYSIS-Cheap valuations make China stocks a great takeaway
Thursday 29 July 2010, 9:00 GMT (5:00am EST)


* Valuations at 19-mth lows

* Stable policy outlook seen boosting A shares

* Higher turnover signals upward trend for benchmark index

* Analysts see index reaching 3,000 points by year-end

By Farah Master

SHANGHAI, July 29 (Reuters) - Shanghai's stock market, the world's worst performer this year after Greece, has started to rebound after plunging as much as 30 percent this year.

With valuations at their lowest in 19 months and as confidence mounts that China can orchestrate a controlled slowdown, analysts say the benchmark index <.SSEC> could gain another 13 percent by the year end.

Despite recording the strongest growth amongst the major economies, China's domestic share market tumbled in the first half as Beijing took a slew of steps to cool the red-hot property sector and liquidity tightened due to large initial public offerings.

The sharp slide has also pushed Shanghai's A shares into a discount versus mainland stocks listed in Hong Kong <.HSCAHPI>, for the first time in four years in June, and combined with technical indicators, point to a reversal in the trend.

As expectations grow that policymakers have done enough for now to cool the economy, Chinese retail investors, who account for two-thirds of stock market turnover, are rushing back to pick up shares now at their cheapest since December 2009.

Benjamin Chang, CEO of LBN Advisers, in Hong Kong said now was the time to buy into the A share market.

"Actually I was already buying a week or two ago. We thought the valuations were reasonable with good growth," Chang said.

Well-known investors such as Fidelity fund manager Anthony Bolton are also arguing that now is the time to buy into the Chinese stock market. [nTOE66E042]

The steep fall has left the Shanghai benchmark index trading at 12.60 times estimated forward 12-month earnings, its lowest in 19 months and down about 40 percent from a year ago.

The last time valuations were this low, the index gained about 60 percent in the following six months, according to Thomson Reuters I/B/E/S data.

But analysts and traders expect the rebound to be much more subdued this time, with the index seen gaining 13 percent to 3,000 points by year end, as a flood of new share sales are expected to continue.

IPOs, rights and other share issues have totalled about 450 billion yuan ($66 billion) so far this year, including Agricultural Bank of China's <601288.SS> mammoth $20 billion IPO this month, and some 350 billion yuan more are expected for the rest of the year, traders say.

POLICY ASSURANCE

[Virgil Showlion]

ReformedDayTrade
Message #1604 - 08/11/10 11:07 AM

Asian Companies 3 of 16   ANALYSIS-Cheap valuations make China stocks a great takeaway



 



 

 

 

 



POLICY ASSURANCE

Annual economic growth hit 11.9 percent in the first quarter, raising concerns the world's third-largest economy may be overheating. The worries have subsided as signs emerged that Beijing would succeed in slowing growth to around 10 percent in 2010.

Premier Wen Jiabao and President Hu Jintao have in the last week emphasised the need for monetary policy to be accommodative while improving measures to stimulate domestic consumption, comforting investors who feared more policy tightening. [nTOE66L07U]

"There is increasing confidence that the stock market is recovering. Investors are expecting a more steady macro policy outlook and do not expect large changes in policy adjustments this year," said Xu Yinhui, analyst at Guotai Junan Securities in Shanghai.

After hitting a 15-month low early this month, the Shanghai index has rebounded 11 percent, with daily trading volumes nearly doubling.

Property and banking stocks, which were hit hardest during the downturn, have outperformed with heavyweight property developer Gemdale <600383.SS> rising 16 percent and Merchants Bank <600036.SS> gaining 13 percent since early this month.

Chinese retail investors, who often flock to the market during upturns and stay away during downturns, have been rushing back to open trading accounts in the last few weeks, further evidence the rally has legs.

Technical indicators are pointing to a more bullish market, analysts said, adding that if volume levels remained strong there may be a steeper rise.

The fast and the trend lines on the weekly Moving Average Convergence Divergence (MACD) are about to cross, which would signify a turn in the trend.

($1=6.778 Yuan)

(Additional reporting by Vikram Subhedar in HONG KONG; Editing by Kazunori Takada)

(([mailto:[e-mail]] [e-mail]; [phone]; Reuters Messaging: [e-mail]))

((If you have a query or comment on this story, send an email to [mailto:[e-mail]] [e-mail]))

Keywords: MARKETS STOCKS CHINA/



.



(C) Reuters 2010. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by caching, framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters and the Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters group of companies around the world. nTOE66Q05W

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Stay Put
Message #1605 - 08/11/10 04:26 PM

The Tea Party wins again with Buck’s victory in Colorado

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Goober Steve
Message #1606 - 08/13/10 03:44 PM



A realistic assessment

www.zerohedge.com/article/only-things-matter%E2%80%A6-and-no-one-talks-about

 

Markets have been down rather large and overall sentiment has turned against Obama/Fed policies so expect Obama/Dem policies to change and morph into a much more "supposed" fiscally responsible tone, even though it will only be another lie and more subterfuge to SAVE them in the elections. In fact I am certain there will be some sort of recant on the Bush Tax cuts. Likely not a full bore recant but some form of adjustment from previous of dems anti tax cut position. I am certain this will happen as they have no other choices with elections approaching. This WILL spike the markets so time to start getting long for next weeks new surge that will be 100% manipulated. After the elections it will be downward again unless Reps take back both houses. Personally I don't see the Reps any more credible, but we will have to wait and see what happens. It is very possible people will be fooled if Reps come on strong and that would fuel the markets in a fit of hope although unwarranted IMO. Until we see the actual underlying economic fundamentals change as pointed out in the above article, nothing can change long term. A market pop is right around the corner but it won't last long, it can't. Last week I caught numerous shorts like Cree/CME/FSLR/ISRG now time to  reverse. FSLR lost their european subsidies and that hasn't hit the press and their Big china deal is tanking and their recent report was 100% a lie by their own figures, so other than the coming pop, they will be a big short in the near future, just have to watch as they will have many downgrades coming and Big money will be made. Don't forget and carried get away, the pop is temporary so don't listen to the fools who are still saying GO LONG HARD indefinitely! Those on these boards who have said that have not made any money at all or have lost their shirts in the last 90 to 120 days days. The idea of one directional stock movement is really quite stupid when you stop and think about it, especially in this new paradigm. Treasuries are a bad joke for yield unless you are OK with nearly nothing 2.5% or? Being flexible in direction and method is FAR more profitable, wise and fun. There is a lot of money to be made right now and in recent past and immediate future by simply paying attention and catching direction, up or down? It doesn't matter which, just don't forget the true underlying facts and you cannot lose. 

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ReformedDayTrade
Message #1607 - 08/13/10 04:37 PM



Msg#1606.....Good Stuff Goob..

 

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Stay Put
Message #1608 - 08/18/10 06:47 PM

How about this recovery?!  Is everyone excited yet?!!

[Virgil Showlion]

cedaredge
Message #1609 - 08/19/10 01:23 AM

How about this recovery?!  Is everyone excited yet?!!

Ask Gumby

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Stay Put
Message #1610 - 08/19/10 01:53 AM

Can't.  He's getting Pokey.

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cedaredge
Message #1611 - 08/19/10 12:24 PM

Can't.  He's getting Pokey.

What??? His slip is showing?

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Stay Put
Message #1612 - 08/19/10 05:26 PM

How about this recovery?!  Is everyone excited yet?!!

I asked this question yesterday when the FED was pouring more of our tax dollars into the markets to artificially support them, as they have been doing for the past year and a half.  In the final analysis, no matter how many trillions of our tax dollars that they spend, the economy is proving that the meltdown is inevitable.  They have only made what everyone will be forced face, for the next 10 - 15 years, multiple times worse.

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LongSam
Message #1613 - 08/19/10 07:38 PM



Cedar, I've given you a week off for posting insults.   Only a week this time, but next time it will be far longer.   Please try to control yourself.

Sam/MSN Money Moderator

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oots
Message #1614 - 08/19/10 10:26 PM

How about this recovery?!  Is everyone excited yet?!!

The Dem's are trying fervently to keep the market and economic data from imploding until November 3.

 

We have a choice: For most of us it could be another two years of added misery of more failed policies and passage of bills that will add more misery. On the flip side of the coin there will be the "chosen" who benefit. This election will tell us loads ....... whether this country is shot as we used to know it or whether there is still hope. For the last 1 3/4 years the places I go to and the conversations I have and hear give me hope. The problem is I don't know the numbers on the other side, that is to say the places I don't go to and people I don't talk to.  My gut tells me my guys outnumber the other guys.  We'll see.

[Virgil Showlion]

hum-ok
Message #1615 - 08/19/10 10:37 PM

collapse is inevitable and intentional. It is coming. The only for the govt to justify changing the currency that the world govt and globalist want.

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Goober Steve
Message #1616 - 08/20/10 12:12 AM



The GOM spill is a big lie/coverup and always has been from BP and this administration?

www.zerohedge.com/article/senior-noaa-scientist-admits-he-lied-gulf-spill-oil-gone-puts-administrations-spill-disclosu

 

The damages are far worse than teh administration ahs llowed to be known. But it will get out mostly from those that cannot be coerced or bought off.

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Goober Steve
Message #1617 - 08/20/10 12:21 AM



Long Sam- On the Jubak side, Hamburger threw all kinds of insults and nobody did anything including you? He called me ignorant when I pointed out how wrong he was about the recovery? Didn'tike to have reality pointed out point blank? So why are you guys so selective?? I don't really care, but it is quite obvious you guys do show an unfair bias when that is supposedly what you stand for? That is why I don't come here much any more because of the double standards and overkill on censorship and supposed civility.

 

The recovery is a 100% illusion based on QE and lies, it always has been, nothing new. But a lot of your assocaites have spurned a lot of people who were 100% correct the entire time. Makes a lot of people look like fools in retrospect doesn't it. So are apologies coming forth on this politically correct site? I doubt it too! 

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davebuck
Message #1618 - 08/20/10 02:01 AM

listen SG.  I don't know you but I must say I have always been impressed and read your comments which are obviously well thought out.  Unfortunately, there are many who believe what they are told and are enamored by the process and not the facts.

Clearly, there are many who understand basic economics. They see the tidal wave building.  The illusions of recovery and of economic wealth in this country is being spread by the thieves in DC.  Most would rather believe in Santa Clause and take government handouts.  Unfortunately the experiments being performed by this administration which were started by GWB have only a 100% failure rate!!

It is a very sad situation when you see your demise and have little recourse or power to reverse it.  Let those who believe in fairy tales dream on and continue to spew out stupidity.  Rome, England, Argentina were just 3 of the powers of the past. I am sure none of those empires believed their leaders were leading them off a cliff into oblivion.

But getting back on topic. IMHO. Gold, Guns, silver and Oil may allow you to survive the future.  Otherwise expect a dramatic deterioration in lifestyle in this country.  The Hemorrhaging persists and there is no sign of it stopping until the patient dies!!!

---

Goober Steve
Message #1619 - 08/20/10 02:13 AM

The debt being added since 2008 is so obvious and the outcome of that debt has always been known. The simple truth is nobody or no entity can or ever will be able to spend their way out of debt. The premise is complete and total absurdity and always has been. Now we are seeing the results of all the lies that have been told and reality is setting in via data and market functions. This thing is in a dire mess and it was caused by the policies so m,any have believed in and lied about. There will be one more election pump and after that, look out below! I am not very smart but I do have common sense and only believe in facts not illusions which have been quite obvious. IMO some of what has happened is criminal starting with Hank Paulson and ending with the current PTB. The ugly part hasn't really started yet but it will. Enough have not suffered yet, but they will. Stay Put has been correct all along. Good Luck.

---

davebuck
Message #1620 - 08/20/10 12:44 PM



Agreed!

 

There will be The October Surprise!!

 

Add that to the expiration of the Bush Tax cuts plus Obies New Taxes, and you can expect at least a 30% drop in the major indices next year.

 

I betting on Double Dow Down for 2011!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Virgil Showlion]

davebuck
Message #1621 - 08/20/10 12:45 PM



Agreed!

 

There will be The October Surprise!!

 

Add that to the expiration of the Bush Tax cuts plus Obies New Taxes, and you can expect at least a 30% drop in the major indices next year.

 

I betting on Double Dow Down for 2011!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

Goober Steve
Message #1622 - 08/21/10 07:09 PM

The tax cuts and or capital gains are the only ammunition that would be effective for the donks to pump the Nov elections. I cannot think of any other method to accomplish said end results? It is now completely accepted that all stimulus has been a 100% failure and only made bad matters worse so I cannot imagine that the donks WON'T take one or both actions into serious consideration and perhaps tweek them a bit so they don't have to eat so much crow and make it palatable for the masses.   Makes total sense in a perverse double standard way.

---

Goober Steve
Message #1623 - 08/21/10 07:55 PM



I have noticed something on these boards as I haven't been here much for a while. I went back 20 pages and all POST's on illegal aliens or anything to do with them is gone? One post relates to Illegal college students and thats it? I see where numerous people have complained about their posts being deleted after a while and some all posts deleted? Also several people questioning why so much scrutiny on content/subject matter if related to politics and money? Well there is no doubt illegal aliens are 100% related to politics and money,  wasted. These boards are surely changing and falling prey to political correctness and basicly the mind/thought/brain police. None the less, here is a video and numerous others in links in regard to S. Arizona. Keep in mind it is 2009 and not totally up to date. In fact it has gotten far worse and much more taxpayer funds have been wasted in accomplishing nothing except political mind effing of the populace.



 

I am very familiar with the Huachuca area and all surrounding topography in a 50 to 100 mile radius. I was stationed at Ft Huachuca for a short stint before going to VietNam and flew in Cayuse helicopters and OV1 Mohawks in that training. From Agua Prieta to Nogales and all points in between. The area was quite beautiful but has sense been obliterated by many hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of illegals destroying the national park lands and private property as well. There is no doubt something is very wrong with this entire picture and nothing is actually being done and could be. As I have stated previously the borders could be sealed completely in 30 days or less. Another sign of the disintegration of a once great nation, right before our eyes. The illusions are many!

---

Goober Steve
Message #1624 - 08/21/10 11:37 PM



I just satumbled onto this. It is EXACTLY what I have been saying and doing for some time now. Comes from an unlikely source for me, but accurate and useful none the less.

[theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/even-tony-robbins-is-warning-that-an-economic-collapse-is-coming]

 

Interestingly this was from the winter of 2009 but is spot on in its analysis of this current time period. Since the economic data has recently proven previous prognostications. Stay Put and myself and others have had it right all along, but the time frame simply hasn't arrived to be so obvious that all the nay sayers would understand it as well and realize teh actual circumstance for what it is, a depression still to unfold even worse. Information and understanding are the only saviors and always have been. The illusions are melting rapidly. 

---

Goober Steve
Message #1625 - 08/21/10 11:40 PM

Maybe the time frame is 2010. It appears he made this in Aug 2010 for release in winter 2010?

---

Goober Steve
Message #1626 - 08/22/10 12:09 AM



Here is another excellent source with lots of documentation. the historical data/charts are very simple and explanatory

 

www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-preserve-and-protect-mapping-tipping-points

 

This weekend there is a lot of negative economic data floating around at all outlets, but I certainly would not discount it. It is finally floating to the surface unlike the oil in the gulf.  

[Virgil Showlion]

davebuck
Message #1627 - 08/22/10 12:23 AM

Reading Gerald Celente, Peter Schiff or The Golden Jackass.
What you are saying is out there for those interested!
Funny isn't it how someone just made apost about Ayn Rands books!!

old news

---

engleclair
Message #1628 - 08/22/10 01:01 AM

I just satumbled onto this. It is EXACTLY what I have been saying and doing for some time now. Comes from an unlikely source for me, but accurate and useful none the less.

[theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/even-tony-robbins-is-warning-that-an-economic-collapse-is-coming]

 

Interestingly this was from the winter of 2009 but is spot on in its analysis of this current time period. Since the economic data has recently proven previous prognostications. Stay Put and myself and others have had it right all along, but the time frame simply hasn't arrived to be so obvious that all the nay sayers would understand it as well and realize teh actual circumstance for what it is, a depression still to unfold even worse. Information and understanding are the only saviors and always have been. The illusions are melting rapidly. 

Thank you for this.  Good watch.

---

Goober Steve
Message #1629 - 08/22/10 01:43 AM



This interview is hilarious. It clearly shows the conflict of interest of Mishkin of the central bank and how absurd teh academics at Columbia are with thier own brand of malfeasance and ethical corruption.

 www.zerohedge.com/article/watch-former-fed-governor-fred-napoleon-dynamite-mishkin-dire-need-diaper-change

 

These guys are running the world no less and talking from both sides of their mouths. 

---

davebuck
Message #1630 - 08/22/10 03:51 AM

Our country is being run by a group of community organizers, communists, left wing radicals and academics who never worked in the real world in their lives!! Furthermore, they treat the populous like a bunch of morons, spewing out blatant lies without the slightest concern.  Their ends justifies their means and turning this country into a communist nation with a fascist government goes on unabated

---

fiscan
Message #1631 - 08/22/10 04:01 AM



Oh it will be abated at some point.

 

Guns and plenty of ammo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

Murphy Martin
Message #1632 - 08/22/10 11:59 AM

Add that to the expiration of the Bush Tax cuts plus Obies New Taxes, and you can expect at least a 30% drop in the major indices next year.

OBVIOUSLY, I don't care even slightly what happens to the indices. 

 

But if Obama can find a way to drive down the price of JNJ, MCD, KO, PEP, MO, CVX, XOM, and PG by a full 30% next year, then THIS diehard Republican will vote for him in 2012.  My fondest hope is that the aforementioned companies will have a 30%-off sale next year, because I have a ton of cash just waiting for this sale.  Since (obviously!) CVX will raise its $2.88 per share dividend, a 30% reduction in the share price could easily send the yield to 6%.  If Obama can pull THAT off, I'll consider switching my allegiance to the DEMs.

 

Of course, if this DOESN'T happen, then I'll never forgive you for getting my hopes up...

[Virgil Showlion]

Goober Steve
Message #1633 - 09/07/10 07:02 PM



BP and this administration have suppressed all truth related to the GOM spill. It is only a matter of time until more truth comes out as it is beginning to happen. We still have not had any huuricanes , but will.

www.zerohedge.com/article/blood-tests-show-elevated-level-toxic-hydrocarbons-gulf-residents

 

this guy has been telling the truth the entire time unlike many. excellent stuff.

---

cedaredge
Message #1634 - 09/07/10 07:14 PM

As many times as the effects of dispersants has been brought up in the media.......................in my opinion, the question has NEVER been satisfactorily been addressed or answered!!

---

Stay Put
Message #1635 - 09/13/10 01:55 AM

But if Obama can find a way to drive down the price of

Obama has a hard time trying to find his way off of vacations, paid for by the tax payers.  How do you honestly expect him to find a way out of all of his and the Democratic spending?

---

ReformedDayTrade
Message #1636 - 09/20/10 07:42 PM



The “Great Recession” has ended, officially.

At least, that's the word from the private, nonprofit research organization that calls the beginnings and endings of recessions, the National Bureau of Economic Research.

The NBER said Monday that the recession which began in December 2007 ended in June 2009, which marked the beginning of an expansion. The announcement rules out the possibility of a so-called “double-dip” recession, because any new downturn would be seen as a brand new recession.

[www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39271659/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy] Story: Obama: Much more work needed to fix the economy

President Barack Obama said that even though the NBER officially named an end to the recession, the economy has a long way to go and much work to be done to become healthy again. "Something that took ten years to create is going to take a little more time to solve," Obama said at a town-hall-style meeting shown live on CNBC.

The NBER said it chose the June 2009 date based on examination of [www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39269753/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/?GT1=43001#] data including gross domestic product, employment and personal income.

"The recession lasted 18 months, which makes it the longest of any recession since World War II. Previously the longest postwar recessions were those of 1973-75 and 1981-82, both of which lasted 16 months," the [www.nber.org/cycles/sept2010.html] NBER added in a press release on its website.

 

 

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39269753/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/?GT1=43001

 

Concrete cowboys, in any mental state, trying to go up against a group of fully trained ex-Marines, soldiers, and avid hunters, which my group encompasses, will not only hold them off but will see a serious decrease in the Texas census.

             So it appears that so called  group of fully trained ex-Marines, soldiers and avid hunters can put down their guns and ammo.  The Concrete cowboys rode off into the sunet, I think but who knows will we see the Concrete Cowboys riding into town again this fall???

---

fiscan
Message #1637 - 09/20/10 07:45 PM

hah aah ah ah ah ah ah h ah ah ah ah ah h ah ah ah ah hah ah ah ah ah ahah ah ahahahhahaahah ah ah  aha h h

---

ReformedDayTrade
Message #1638 - 09/20/10 07:53 PM



fiscan....does Oh Canada have any Concrete Cowboys riding around Alberta these days?? I never seen them in Montreal or Toronto..

[Virgil Showlion]

Rewnti
Message #1639 - 09/20/10 07:57 PM

That's funny.We all know there was no recession and it's all in peoples minds.

---

ReformedDayTrade
Message #1640 - 09/20/10 08:09 PM

How about this recovery?!  Is everyone excited yet?!!

It may not be much of a recovery but better than an economic collapse would be my guess?? And as Joe Six Pack would say " This ain't much of a recovery but whatever it is I'll take it"

---

Just a guy and his wife
Message #1641 - 09/20/10 08:14 PM

RDT You hit the nail on the head!

---

ReformedDayTrade
Message #1642 - 09/20/10 08:33 PM

RDT You hit the nail on the head!

         But I am not so sure about next year if we see a huge tax increase.  I think the only rays of hope would be for a clean sweep of the House and Senate Leadership and get rid of the dems who ruined this economy since January 2009 with their tax and spend policies.

 

         We need to see a roll back of government spending and let the economy grow without increased taxes which would be devastating for small businesses, and let's hope the repubs will scrap the health care,  revise social security and the income tax system as a start...and bring our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan ASAP....but Mom and Pop small businesses don't have a seat at the table and don't write big checks for the dems..

 

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama said Monday he doesn't care that the Great Recession has been declared over by a group of economists. For the millions of people who are out of work or otherwise struggling, he said, "it's still very real for them."

Obama denied that he was anti-business or anti-Wall Street in his economic proposals, commenting under close questioning during a town hall-style meeting broadcast live on CNBC.

He offered a mixed verdict on the growing tea party, calling its skepticism of government "healthy...That's in our DNA, right?"

[www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39269753/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy] Story: ‘Great Recession’ over, research group says

But, he added, "The challenge for the tea party movement is to identify specifically 'What would you do?'" to help turn around the economy and produce jobs

 

 

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39271659/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/?GT1=43001

 

---

Stay Put
Message #1643 - 09/21/10 03:22 AM

The ugly part hasn't really started yet but it will. Enough have not suffered yet, but they will. Stay Put has been correct all along. Good Luck.

I never get tired of hearing this.

---

ReformedDayTrade
Message #1644 - 09/21/10 01:03 PM

I never get tired of hearing this.

             Or having one's deflated ego continuously stroked ..

 

 

NEW YORK ([www.thestreet.com/] TheStreet) -- "We used to cower when the old President Obama came on the air," Jim Cramer told the viewers of his [www.thestreet.com/mad-money/index.html] "Mad Money" TV show Monday.

"But today," he continued, "we received the ultimate confirmation that the new and improved President Obama is here to stay."

Cramer said [www.thestreet.com/story/10865898/1/_msnh/cramers-mad-money-recap-market-likes-new-obama-update-1.html?cm_ven=MSNH&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#] investors don't need to love the president, or even like him, but they do need to care if the markets like him. And with today's rally, the markets have signaled loud and clear that it no longer fears Obama.

"There's no denying his change in attitude," said Cramer, adding the president is no longer demonizing big business. He said the facts have [www.thestreet.com/story/10865898/1/_msnh/cramers-mad-money-recap-market-likes-new-obama-update-1.html?cm_ven=MSNH&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#] c

 

www.thestreet.com/story/10865898/1/_msnh/cramers-mad-money-recap-market-likes-new-obama-update-1.html?cm_ven=MSNH&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA