The drums of war?

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 4, 2013 15:45:10 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Like is or not, war is big business for weapons manufacturers.

Rather cynically some countries may have a vested interest in spinning this out.

How about we sell the weapons to the Saudis and they can do the fighting .....Its not like the Middle Eastern countries don't have massive armies.

They just don't like to get their hands dirty if someone else will do it.........and take the blame if it goes wrong...or take the blame anyway.
The Us is a scapegoat for everything that is bad about the Middle East
Blaming the US is a lot easier than admitting that this Muslim vs Muslim killing that has been going on centuries..... is being perpetuated by Muslims.

Tonight' political agenda on NBC was the war refugees in Turkey wanting America to topple the Syrian Government putting a feel good spin on an American attack.

You are being duped.

 Spell:

 Great post.  The time of the American scapegoat is coming to an end. 

The war after the war is really heating up. (Some will know what I mean.)

Al-Qaeda to Egyptians: Fight army
Backing Egypt’s generals, Saudi Arabia promises financial support
Saudis Go on Full Alert after Putin Threatens to Hit S. Arab in Reprisal for US Attack on Syria
CHINA'S WORLD: Beijing's Middle Eastern Dilemma

[Value Buy]

    Well, let me be first to say I was wrong about the President.
I thought sure we would blow up a camel (do they have camels in Damascus) over Labor Day weekend, while we are all half snookered.
We didn't.
Now the question is why?
Did President Obama back down?
Did he receive too much pressure from the leftwing of the party to not do it?
Did the leftwing of the party demand the President get a couple of Republican stooges to back the effort before unleashing the missles and fighter jets?

None of the above?

As I have stated, I have learned my lesson in the Middle East. We cannot win.
I am still wondering why Egypt is the non-event when the killing continues.
IMO, Egypt stands much more importantly in the scheme of things than Syria

[djAdvocate]

Sept 5, 2013 13:33:41 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

Sept 5, 2013 8:39:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I am really unclear as to what this response means.

It means the quote "The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations", is not correct, there are a great many problems where force is the correct solution. If you need to drive a nail into a piece of wood, direct force is a good solution to the problem.

I also thought it was an indirect way to reference "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

this is precisely the problem with having the world's largest military.  there is a strong tendency to use it for EVERYTHING.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 5, 2013 19:13:05 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

    Well, let me be first to say I was wrong about the President.
I thought sure we would blow up a camel (do they have camels in Damascus) over Labor Day weekend, while we are all half snookered.
We didn't.
Now the question is why?
Did President Obama back down?
Did he receive too much pressure from the leftwing of the party to not do it?
Did the leftwing of the party demand the President get a couple of Republican stooges to back the effort before unleashing the missles and fighter jets?

None of the above?

As I have stated, I have learned my lesson in the Middle East. We cannot win.
I am still wondering why Egypt is the non-event when the killing continues.
IMO, Egypt stands much more importantly in the scheme of things than Syria

i would like to think his conscience got the best of him- but who the hell am i kidding?

[OldCoyote]

John McCain was at a town meeting yesterday,  promoting bombing Syria.  He talk about the poor children being poisoned and how we needed to bomb Syria into submission.

If given the chance to ask a question of John, I would have asked just how many innocent children have we kill with our drones?

[zibazinski]

John McCain needs to go away, preferably quietly.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 6, 2013 9:17:43 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

John McCain was at a town meeting yesterday,  promoting bombing Syria.  He talk about the poor children being poisoned and how we needed to bomb Syria into submission.

If given the chance to ask a question of John, I would have asked just how many innocent children have we kill with our drones?

or, in the case of Iraq, with our bombs (the answer is about 50k).  he is such an ass.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 6, 2013 10:09:36 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

In order to save the village we had to destroy it.

his mind is gone, imo.  he has no more sympathy than a crabs eye on the end of a stalk.

[billisonboard]

He was raised in a military family, went to a military academy, and spent his adult years with a career in the military. Why is anyone surprised his answer to everything is military?

[billisonboard]

Sept 6, 2013 10:30:19 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

My comment was kinda non sequitor-

That was an actual quote from some nimrod officer back in Vietnam.

But yeah, I thought McCain showed lack of presence of mind back in 2008 when he suspended his campaign to "rescue" the economy.

Yes, suspended his campaign and immediately flew back to D.C. And then published a picture of himself on his cell phone making calls from his townhouse in Washington to save us all.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 6, 2013 10:30:19 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

My comment was kinda non sequitor-

That was an actual quote from some nimrod officer back in Vietnam.

But yeah, I thought McCain showed lack of presence of mind back in 2008 when he suspended his campaign to "rescue" the economy.

i kinda liked him in 2000, when he was still a campaign finance reformer and anti-torture.  amazing what a run for the presidency does to a fella.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 6, 2013 10:34:10 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 6, 2013 10:30:19 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

My comment was kinda non sequitor-

That was an actual quote from some nimrod officer back in Vietnam.

But yeah, I thought McCain showed lack of presence of mind back in 2008 when he suspended his campaign to "rescue" the economy.

Yes, suspended his campaign and immediately flew back to D.C. And then published a picture of himself on his cell phone making calls from his townhouse in Washington to save us all.

he should never have stood for Palin, either.  it was an amazing "wtf" moment.

[Deleted]

I heard on the ABC network news that Dianne Feinstein has come out in favor of the attack on Syria.  Interesting that a gun restriction nut like her has no problem dropping a big load on a city in another country.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 6, 2013 11:21:17 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

I heard on the ABC network news that Dianne Feinstein has come out in favor of the attack on Syria.  Interesting that a gun restriction nut like her has no problem dropping a big load on a city in another country.

never liked her, even when she was mayor of SF.

[Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger]

Sept 5, 2013 19:13:05 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

    Well, let me be first to say I was wrong about the President.
I thought sure we would blow up a camel (do they have camels in Damascus) over Labor Day weekend, while we are all half snookered.
We didn't.
Now the question is why?
Did President Obama back down?
Did he receive too much pressure from the leftwing of the party to not do it?
Did the leftwing of the party demand the President get a couple of Republican stooges to back the effort before unleashing the missles and fighter jets?

None of the above?

As I have stated, I have learned my lesson in the Middle East. We cannot win.
I am still wondering why Egypt is the non-event when the killing continues.
IMO, Egypt stands much more importantly in the scheme of things than Syria

We have already won VB, no other military complex has push universal human rights.  War is always messy, it's the end game that counts..

Saudi Arabia must choose freedom

  What happens if the UN says their have been chemical weapons used? Germany is the latest country to agree with the physical evidence that it was Assad. How about? We already said that we would go in, but you know what, China, how about you STEP UP and deal with it.. It's all about strategy...

China Calls For UN Role In Syria Crisis After U.S. Gives Up On Security Council

[djAdvocate]

the irony here is amazing.  the US has been holding up the UN since the mid-70's.  but i am guessing most Americans don't even know that. (before that it was the USSR)

[Deleted]

 Whoever used the Chemical Weapons (Sarin, nerve gas, whatever) can NOT be allowed to use them again.
 Whether it was authorized by Assad- or by one of his flunkies, or by a rogue operative, or some other entity- it has not yet been PROVEN which party is responsible; Assad may try to claim that it's a set-up and that he's being framed by agents provocateurs. But the accusations are just as likely to be correct, Assad is most likely the party that is responsible by most accounts.
 In any case, it is urgent and critical that the user of the poison cannot be allowed to poison again.
 The civilized nations of the world DO have an interest in this affair... a vital interest.
 Unilateral action is unacceptable.
 We have to stand together on this, Russia and China with us as well. 

 Unfortunately, Vladimir Putin has the ball.

 

[Spellbound454]

Nobody wants to see film of dead children....Its outrageous. The US do not have the monopoly on that emotion.

What the rest of the world cannot agree on..... is if sending rockets to potentially kill more people, is the best course of action.
Opinion is split right across through the refugees themselves..... and to the populations of the wider world.

What if it escalates?...Hezbollah will almost certainly retaliate as will Iran and Syria.
What if we start something we cannot get out of?....and our own soldiers start dying.

These Sunni/Shia power struggles and wars have been going on centuries..... and will doubtless continue, whether we involve ourselves or not.

We had a televised debate the other night and Syrian students were making the case for British intervention.
but I had to ask myself....Why are they asking us? How about going and trying one of the Arab countries who have more of a stake in the area?

Most of us couldn't point to Syria on a map.... let alone think we had an association or duty to that Country to intervene in civil war.

A lady on the news saying that "the world had let Syria down"......Well no.....Syria has let Syria down. Its their own fighting forces who are responsible.
All we can do is help negotiate a cease fire... and get people around the table for talks.

[OldCoyote]

Our politicians shouting at the top of their lungs about how bad Syria is treating it's citizens.

How would our Government treat it's citizens if they started to rebel?  It would be much worse than Syria.

Would they use a gas that caused many deaths of women and children? 

Would they shoot people running out of a burning building?

Would they cover it up?   What would you think if this has already happened?

I would really like to hear from the pro government posters about this.

One of these was Waco.

[OldCoyote]

By the way the people at Waco were not even rebelling!

[OldCoyote]

The gas used was CS (2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile). a tear gas.  many of the children that died at Waco, died from asphxiation.  
the same so called hostage rescue team had refused to use it at Ruby Ridge because danger to Randy Weaver's 10 month old baby.



 

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2013 6:16:05 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Nobody wants to see film of dead children....Its outrageous. The US do not have the monopoly on that emotion.

no, and i am of the mind that we should not base policy on that video.  if we were to do that, then not funding the Contras and any other number of terrorist organizations would have been strictly avoided by us.  but that is NOT how we run policy, in practical terms.

no, videos like this only become part of the discussion when the subject of the videos won't play ball.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2013 9:57:03 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Our politicians shouting at the top of their lungs about how bad Syria is treating it's citizens.

How would our Government treat it's citizens if they started to rebel?  It would be much worse than Syria.

Would they use a gas that caused many deaths of women and children? 

Would they shoot people running out of a burning building?

Would they cover it up?   What would you think if this has already happened?

I would really like to hear from the pro government posters about this.

One of these was Waco.

i am not "pro-government", but the government will ALWAYS align with powerful interests.  that is who they serve.  and this is why a standing army is such a danger to a free society.

[Virgil Showlion]

Come on. I know you chuckled.

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 7, 2013 11:17:09 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 7, 2013 6:16:05 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Nobody wants to see film of dead children....Its outrageous. The US do not have the monopoly on that emotion.

no, and i am of the mind that we should not base policy on that video.  if we were to do that, then not funding the Contras and any other number of terrorist organizations would have been strictly avoided by us.  but that is NOT how we run policy, in practical terms.

no, videos like this only become part of the discussion when the subject of the videos won't play ball.

My thoughts on the video are aptly summed up by another editorial cartoonist.

[djAdvocate]

yeah.  what Virgil said.

[EVT1]

I agree- and I still love to see the party of war fighting it because of Obama.    I think we need to just stay the hell out of it all.  Of course that comes with major consequences- the end to the jobs program known as the military, the end of countless sweet deals to the MIC, the end of a lot of shit that will never be allowed to end.  Not going to happen.  If the people in charge want to go in- we are going in- some dickless congressmen  will not stand in their way.  But I like it this time- every vote is on record and if the votes aren't there then Obama needs to say eff it.  He can't lose regardless of the blame campaign soon to follow.  And poor McCain- he is catching so much hell in the town hall meetings you would think he tried to give people health care

[workpublic]

obama et al are no where near putin's league. they should quit while they're still not that far behind

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 9, 2013 11:52:45 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

If this isn't just a delaying tactic by Putin and Assad it could be the means of Obama's great escape from his lose- lose situation at the current time. 

Presuming he wants to.

Nobody knows exactly why he wants to go in in the first place. I'm curious myself. I'm 90% certain it has nothing to do with chemical weapons.

[Virgil Showlion]

A-a-and it apparently didn't take long for the White House to come up with a new reason.

US Refuses To Admit Checkmate By Russia And Syria, Redirects Purpose Of Military Incursion: Admits Regime Change Intention

They definitely get points for speed. I'll give 'em that much. It took the Bush regime weeks to come up with the "Osama bin Laden", "harbouring terrorists", "WMDs", "greeted as liberators", ... dog and pony show. And thems was 2003 weeks.

Well, it may not be pretty, but I suppose I should officially congratulate you at this point. Mazel tov! It's a brand new baby war for you guys.