The drums of war?

[Spellbound454]

uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/27/uk-syria-crisis-idUKBRE97K0AJ20130827

There are war planes in Cyprus, submarines are gathering, troops are moving

Assads government have denied any wrong doing and Russia says the gas attacks have been staged.
The UN report isn't in yet but the Israelis say that Assad is definitely responsible.
www.debka.com/article/23218/

Its not looking good.

What do you think?

[Spellbound454]

I think you'll be getting an announcement as to why its necessary to strike Syria.
Our guy Cameron has already nailed his colours to the mast...he is supposed to wait for parliament (but they are unlikely to agree) and
So...we wait, I guess.

[mmhmm]

I don't have a clue, Spellbound.  There's really no way to know who's done what to whom, as I see it.  It wouldn't be the first time an attack has been faked.  It also wouldn't be the first time an attack has been a reality.  How does one figure out who to believe?

[pappyjohn99]

The Syrians danced in the streets and handed out candy to children when they heard the news on 9/11. If someone is gassing them, why should we care?

www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/120473/Syrian_Rebels_Praise_Bin_Laden_Celebrate_911_Attacks/

Edit- link added

[mollyanna58]

Neither the USA or England should be the world's police force. This is nothing that will be solved with a single bombing raid.

[billisonboard]

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.), for example — a leading House Republican voice on national security issues — said Monday evening that he believes Obama can take military action without congressional authorization.

Rep. Scott Rigell ... the Virginia Republican issued a press release Monday calling on Obama to consult with Congress before any engagement in Syria.

“Congress is not a potted plant in this process, and President Obama should call us back into emergency session before authorizing the use of any military force,” Rigell’s press release said. “We stand ready to share the burden of decisions made regarding U.S. involvement.”

Later Monday, Rigell told CQ Roll Call that as the president considers military options in Syria, his actions “must include proactive consultation with Congress and explicit, definitive authorization” if he wants to take military action in the embattled country.

Read more: nation.foxnews.com/2013/08/27/va-rep-obama-%E2%80%9Ccongress-not-potted-plant%E2%80%9D-syria-debate#ixzz2dDsHOa87

King needs to take up his constitutional responsibility as Rigell is calling for Congress to do.

[djAdvocate]

i think we are going to bomb Syria.  that is what i think.

but here is my question: how come mr-one-world-government-tool-of-the-UN is not using the UN inspectors that are already on the ground to determine who is responsible for the attack before we bomb them into oblivion?  unless, of course, we are afraid of what they will find out.  that would explain it, actually.

edit: and that, of course, should remind any person paying any attention for the last decade of at least one other war we have engaged in.

[mmhmm]

I don't think they'll bomb Syria, but I do expect the use of drones and/or targeted missile strikes.

I, too, would like to be sure who did what to whom, but how to go about getting real, concrete proof of that is beyond me.  I'm not sure it can be done.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 27, 2013 21:33:28 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I don't think they'll bomb Syria, but I do expect the use of drones and/or targeted missile strikes.

I, too, would like to be sure who did what to whom, but how to go about getting real, concrete proof of that is beyond me.  I'm not sure it can be done.

i'd be more interested in just hearing WHY it is NOT being done.  what is the rationale for having UN weapons inspectors if you never let them do their job?  i am seeing a pattern here- a pattern that has gotten us into trouble TWICE in 20 years.

[mmhmm]

I agree, dj; however, I find myself wondering how the inspectors would go about figuring out who's responsible for using chemical weapons, as was done in this case.  If you weren't there to see them used, how in the heck are you to know who actually used them?  Did the rebels do it and blame it on government troops, or was it the other way around?  How would the inspectors know?

[djAdvocate]

Aug 28, 2013 1:26:42 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I agree, dj; however, I find myself wondering how the inspectors would go about figuring out who's responsible for using chemical weapons, as was done in this case.  If you weren't there to see them used, how in the heck are you to know who actually used them?  Did the rebels do it and blame it on government troops, or was it the other way around?  How would the inspectors know?

well, the way i understand it is that these weapons leave signatures.  typically impurities, and the method of deployment.  because the weapons inspectors were on the ground within 48 hours, they also have obtained the actual chemicals, as well as skin samples that have the agents.  this is very unusual, and very high quality data.  here is what i think: if the UN inspectors can't figure THIS one out within (30) days, then they are of no use.  but i am fairly optimistic that they WILL, in this case, make a determination.

the question is: will we wait the 30 days it takes to get that done?  or will we bomb Syria first?

[EVT1]

I can sum it up- if Obama attacks he's a fucking idiot, if Obama does not attack he's a fucking idiot.

[Spellbound454]

The UN team were never there to determine who had used the poison gas.....
There where just there to determine if gas had been used at all.

The report will be ready soon, I think.

I think like dj there will be cruise missile strikes in the next couple of days.
Having said that a "red line" cannot be crossed.......Obama would look weak if he did nothing.

The Russians and Syrians think there is going to be a strike as well because planes have been taking the Syrian elite to Russia.

The French are talking about "punishment" which is a strange tone of French. Since when did we bomb people out of punishment?

I just hope this is a snowball we can jump off of....Very few of us have the heart for war

[OldCoyote]

When I listen to the claims about Syira, I think of Bush, "Weapons of mass destruction".

Any spokesperson out of Washington, in the last year no matter what they said  turned out to be a lie.

Why should we believe any of this?  Stay out of this, let the UN be the world police.

[Deleted]

Wasn't one of the reasons we went to war in Iraq was because he gassed the Kurds in the northern part of his country ?  Not just WMD's ?

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2013 2:12:59 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

I can sum it up- if Obama attacks he's a fucking idiot, if Obama does not attack he's a fucking idiot.

The situation has nothing to do with Obama. He can still be your idiot if you feel that way.

[billisonboard]

Aug 28, 2013 8:32:10 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Wasn't one of the reasons we went to war in Iraq was because he gassed the Kurds in the northern part of his country ?  Not just WMD's ?

On 16 March 1988, Iraq dropped bombs containing mustard gas, Sarin and Tabun on the Kurdish city of Halabja. news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/02/iraq_events/html/chemical_warfare.stm

Bit of delayed reaction if that was one of the reasons.

[workpublic]

Bit of delayed reaction if that was one of the reasons.

so we shouldn't get involved in syria for something we didn't get involved in iraq for, right?

[Deleted]

The white house says its not a matter of if we attack Syria but a matter of when.  (Told to Fox news) 

[djAdvocate]

Aug 28, 2013 8:32:10 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Wasn't one of the reasons we went to war in Iraq was because he gassed the Kurds in the northern part of his country ?  Not just WMD's ?

no.  that had nothing to do with it.

or i should say, if it did, that would be pretty stupid of us, since we had a hand in that gassing, and did nothing to stop it while it was happening.

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2013 11:43:38 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 28, 2013 8:32:10 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Wasn't one of the reasons we went to war in Iraq was because he gassed the Kurds in the northern part of his country ?  Not just WMD's ?

no.  that had nothing to do with it.

or i should say, if it did, that would be pretty stupid of us, since we had a hand in that gassing, and did nothing to stop it while it was happening.

If we had a hand in that gassing attack against the Kurds in Iraq how did they not know about it? Being deployed to the Kurdish northern part of Iraq was like a vacation for our soldiers. They were so well liked that I remember a network news report on great it was to be a deployed soldier in that area, welcome US signs and stuff like that.

[workpublic]

is code pink ramping up for it's upcoming protest of obama's illegal, unnecessary war yet?

[djAdvocate]

Aug 28, 2013 11:56:09 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Aug 28, 2013 11:43:38 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

no.  that had nothing to do with it.

or i should say, if it did, that would be pretty stupid of us, since we had a hand in that gassing, and did nothing to stop it while it was happening.

If we had a hand in that gassing attack against the Kurds in Iraq how did they not know about it?

how did who not know about it?

Being deployed to the Kurdish northern part of Iraq was like a vacation for our soldiers. They were so well liked that I remember a network news report on great it was to be a deployed soldier in that area, welcome US signs and stuff like that.

not following you.  i was talking about 1988.  what are you talking about?

[djAdvocate]

Aug 28, 2013 12:56:25 GMT -5 workpublic said:

is code pink ramping up for it's upcoming protest of obama's illegal, unnecessary war yet?

they damn well should be.

[rockon]

worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/28/20227083-us-official-says-syria-crisis-is-past-the-point-of-no-return-as-un-members-meet?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1

   Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are one this one? Do we get in another conflict without the UN or congress approval?
I really don't know what the best answer is but just hate to see us get caught in this same trap yet again.

[mmhmm]

There's a thread going on this subject in Current Events, rockon.  I'm going to merge this into that thread to maintain continuity of discussion.

mmhmm, P&M Moderator

[Value Buy]

Well, the White House has pretty much publicly stated they will attack.
They have sent out memos that we are past the point of no return.
The only question is, do they wait til Friday evening when everyone is on a long weekend so they can avoid political disillusionment with their left wing constiuency

[mmhmm]

Left wing constituency?  Do you think those are the only folks who are going to object to the US wading into another Middle Eastern mess?

[Value Buy]

Aug 28, 2013 16:31:08 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Left wing constituency?  Do you think those are the only folks who are going to object to the US wading into another Middle Eastern mess?

Of course not, but do you really believe they worry what Glenn Beck or Rush will say about it? The WH knows they will never get their backing.

I kind of thought it was anti climatic to include the far right.
And PBP and myself.

[mmhmm]

I doubt very seriously they'll worry about what Glenn Beck or Rush will say.  I certainly wouldn't.  I wouldn't worry about what any talking head might say, regardless of their political slant.

I don't see any mention here of the "far right"; nor, do I see any mention of you ... or PBP.