The drums of war?

[zibazinski]

They ALL need to be in their offices. We are talking about bombing another country. Starting ANOTHER war and, yes, I was also opposed to Iraq and Afghanistan. We never learn.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 2, 2013 13:03:32 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 2, 2013 12:14:42 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

He needs to be in his office. ...

I love the idea that "if only President Obama spent more time in his office" that he would solve the problems facing this country.

i can understand the logic after Bush: a failed president who spent more time on vacation than any president in modern history; trimming the brush while American's died due to his negligence.  but it really is more the man than the amount of time spent.  by the time he left office, i was wishing he spent ALL of his time on vacation.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 2, 2013 13:20:09 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

LOL!!! Looks like I managed to stir a pot.

don't know what you mean.  i take every opportunity to bash Bush. 

[mmhmm]

I don't think the problem is pot-stirring as much as obvious bias obscuring the point.  As I've said before, when someone brings obvious bias into a debate, the debate never benefits.  In fact, it usually either dies, or turns into a flaming match.  If you enjoy flaming wars, that might be just fine with you; however, since they're not allowed here the other choice (death of the debate) becomes the only choice.  That seems a shame to me.

There is something to be discussed here.  I think there are quite a few of us who are concerned about what's going on.  We're looking for someone in government to show us they care as much as we do.  So far, we're not seeing that.  The president has tossed the ball to congress as several members of congress were asking.  Congress, apparently, doesn't feel this matter is important enough for them to get their butts back into session and deal with it.  Had the congress done that, and the president decided to wander off to play golf, I'd be ripping mad, too.

[zibazinski]

[billisonboard]

Sept 2, 2013 13:36:12 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

... The president has tossed the ball to congress as several members of congress were asking called on Congress to fulfill its constitutional responsibility. ...

fixed

[mmhmm]

It says the same thing, billis.  For the record, I'm one of those who doesn't care for having my posts "fixed".

[billisonboard]

Sept 2, 2013 14:33:39 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

It says the same thing, billis.  For the record, I'm one of those who doesn't care for having my posts "fixed".

Disagree that it says the same thing. For the record, I'm one of those who will never remember that you don't like to have your posts "fixed".

[mmhmm]

In that case, billis, you'll probably read, again, my feelings on having my posts "fixed".  I find it disrespectful.

[billisonboard]

Sept 2, 2013 15:13:09 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

In that case, billis, you'll probably read, again, my feelings on having my posts "fixed".  I find it disrespectful.

I will work to remember to not use the technique with any post.

[mmhmm]

Thanks, billis.  I think there are probably quite a few posters who'll really appreciate your thoughtfulness. 

[Deleted]

 When things go to the dogs it can get quite bitchy.
 Ironically, that's when it can get quite catty as well.

 The problem with the MidEast is that there are too many control freaks  that think they know better than anyone else and refuse to let anyone dance... unless it's to their tune.
 One can see the same thing happening on the internet, too.

[Value Buy]

Speaking of the drums of war......
Egypt is still not in the news, and off the President's worry board. Lest we forget, the Egyptian army just attacked a bunch of people in the Sinai over the weekend, but major media does not know it exists anymore.
Tonight' political agenda on NBC was the war refugees in Turkey wanting America to topple the Syrian Government putting a feel good spin on an American attack.

And lest we forget, his hometown of Chicago only murdered eight civilians over the weekend and injured another twenty eight. almost All victims, a person of color......
But let's worry about an internal civil war in the ME that is very much now a religious civil war.

And the beat goes on.............

[workpublic]

it was good to see the protesters sitting behind kerry this morning. it took a while for the cameras to realize it.

what a 360 his views have taken since back in the day.

[mmhmm]

Sept 4, 2013 6:08:31 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I saw that news report Value Buy.  It could have been produced and directed by the Syrian Rebel Propaganda Ministry.  Right down to the smiling faces of the adorable children.  They've just finished a journey of many miles, and are staying in a park with no water or sanitation, and yet they are nicely clean and scrubbed.  hmmm.

One other tidbit I caught yesterday was that Russia's President Putin declared that Russia would vote in the UN for action against the Syrian Gov't if the UN gave proof that the government was responsible for the chemical attack.  This is most likely spin and delay on his part.  Too bad, because this, imo, is where punitive actions against the regime should come from.  It would be wholly appropriate and just.

ETA- Of lesser moral weight but still important, the Arab League endorsed action against Syria.

What I want to see now, deminmaine, is action from the Arab League.  They're always quick to endorse action from somebody else if it's in their interests to do so.  They tend to be a bit slow to act on their own, even with UN approval.

[Taxman10]

Sept 2, 2013 14:33:39 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

It says the same thing, billis.  For the record, I'm one of those who doesn't care for having  needs my posts "fixed" regularly.

Fixed.

[mmhmm]

Strangely enough, dem, I heard from a Saudi friend of mine just yesterday.  He's in the states on business.  He was talking about Syria and what's going on and said just what you and I have said.  The Arab League wants to whine and complain, but they don't want to take action.  As he put it, they're like a mother camel with no teats!

[frankq]

As he put it, they're like a mother camel with no teats!

That explains the big hump.....

[Spellbound454]

Like is or not, war is big business for weapons manufacturers.

Rather cynically some countries may have a vested interest in spinning this out.

How about we sell the weapons to the Saudis and they can do the fighting .....Its not like the Middle Eastern countries don't have massive armies.

They just don't like to get their hands dirty if someone else will do it.........and take the blame if it goes wrong...or take the blame anyway.
The Us is a scapegoat for everything that is bad about the Middle East
Blaming the US is a lot easier than admitting that this Muslim vs Muslim killing that has been going on centuries..... is being perpetuated by Muslims.

Tonight' political agenda on NBC was the war refugees in Turkey wanting America to topple the Syrian Government putting a feel good spin on an American attack.

You are being duped.

[Spellbound454]

I reckon the first thing that will happen when these missiles are launched...... is that we will see film of a load of dead kids that America have killed in the strikes.

The Syrians will get behind their government to oppose the foreign aggressor....ie the US

[djAdvocate]

this is a war that has no possible victory path.

the smartest move is not to play.

but my money is on NOT making the smartest move.

[OldCoyote]

Putin calls Kerry a liar, Unfortunately I believe Putin.
This is a sad state of affairs when I would believe the Russian leader over our leaders in the U.S.
If Obama, Kerry, McCain and others statements are true why don't we have the backing of many the other countries around the world?
What if The Drums of War was nothing but a distraction from the other problems we have?
What if this is nothing but a distraction to lead us away from Benghazi being a CIA op with a unproven report of 400 shoulder fired surface to air missiles missing?
With Syria in the headlines we don't hear about the misdeeds of the NSA, FBI, DOJ, IRS ATF?

world.time.com/2013/09/04/putin-sets-uncompromising-tone-ahead-of-g-20-summit/?iid=gs-main-lead?xid%3Dgonewsedit&google_editors_picks=true

By the way, I believe one of the reasons Bush pushed for WMD was to invade Iraq, It was his father's popularity when he invaded Iraq.
Like three or four weeks of battle, we win the war, bring the troops home and I'm a hero like Dad.

where were the WMD?  I feel the same about the proof of who actually deployed the chemicals.





 

[billisonboard]

The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. ~David Friedman

[fairlycrazy23]

Sept 5, 2013 8:06:27 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. ~David Friedman

Not for a nail, direct force , as applied by the hammer works great.

[billisonboard]

Sept 5, 2013 8:26:58 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

Sept 5, 2013 8:06:27 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. ~David Friedman

Not for a nail, direct force , as applied by the hammer works great.

I am really unclear as to what this response means.

[Value Buy]

Sept 5, 2013 7:12:25 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I don't know what the F to believe anymore, sadly.

I do know that the world's problems are not solved by the military industrial complex.  There is big money in war.

But but, but, but, this is the Obama Administration.
Surely he would not lead our country on.
That is impossible.

Saw Chris Mathews the other night.
He almost sounded like he belonged on the Fox station rather than MSNBC.
I think he feels betrayed.
And, I have to say (and I find this hard to say) I totally agree with Mathews on this situation. 

[billisonboard]

Sept 5, 2013 8:42:40 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

...

Saw Chris Mathews the other night.
He almost sounded like he belonged on the Fox station rather than MSNBC.
I think he feels betrayed.
...

No, he belongs on MSNBC because he can sound like he belongs on Fox and keep his job on MSNBC.

[billisonboard]

"If there are no good options, why pick the one that involves cruise missiles?"

Rachel Maddow captures my thoughts exactly with the above quote.

[Value Buy]

Sept 5, 2013 8:48:57 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 5, 2013 8:42:40 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

...

Saw Chris Mathews the other night.
He almost sounded like he belonged on the Fox station rather than MSNBC.
I think he feels betrayed.
...

No, he belongs on MSNBC because he can sound like he belongs on Fox and keep his job on MSNBC.

No he will keep his job on MSNBC because this station now believes they have lost control of the Federal Government.
I think they realize the President is doing his own agenda now. Loose cannon, comparable to Bush II in their eyes.

[fairlycrazy23]

Sept 5, 2013 8:39:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 5, 2013 8:26:58 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

Not for a nail, direct force , as applied by the hammer works great.

I am really unclear as to what this response means.

It means the quote "The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations", is not correct, there are a great many problems where force is the correct solution. If you need to drive a nail into a piece of wood, direct force is a good solution to the problem.

I also thought it was an indirect way to reference "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"