Domestic Violence - Police -Filing Charges

[hoops902]

So I debated whether or not to post this, but I don't think there's enough identifying information to worry about it.  First of all, this is NOT me, but it is my brother.  If people want to post advice, that's fine, but my real question comes from not having any idea what to tell him to do or what the consequences of those actions would be.  This happened a week ago, so at this point suggested actions are theoretical to what he could have done, he's made his decision to not pursue things.  This is spawned really from having him come over, and talking to him at the time, but having no earthly idea what to do.  (We both agreed the "right" answer is to call the cops, and that we'd encourage anyone in the situation to do so, but inside the situation, he didn't want to).

Brief Background:  I can give more details if needed if there are questions.  His wife goes out partying, gets trashed.  Shows up at his retail job around 11:00 to get a ride home with him (this is a completely different story, but wanted to make it clear that while he's driving her home, he has not been out partying, he's been working).  Goes on a 30 minute tyrade on the way home about how she hates him, shitty father, etc.  She doesn't get wasted much, but this is her MO when she does.  Get home, she's just following him around screaming at him still.  He tells her to go to bed and she punches him in the mouth.  Hits him again, throws a pan at him, tries to hit him again and he grabs her wrists and restrains her.  Leaves with the dog to come to my house.  Kids are staying with grandparents already.

Here's the question(s):  He was debating calling the police, primarily because he is terrified either she's going to call them that night to say he was grabbing her (she will almost definitely have bruised wrists) or the next day she'll wake up and only have a partially blacked out memory and think he really did abuse her.  He sees calling the cops as a pre-emptive move as they will arrive and see she's trashed and he has a couple ring marks on his face from the punches.  (His motivation not to is essentially that it's not like he's actually hurt, and doing so will 100% mean the end of their marriage, and he didn't want to make that decision while he was worked up over what just happened)

If he calls the cops, he will not press charges.  So that's really the question...what happens if he calls the cops, but refuses to press charges?  (He didn't, but neither of us had any idea what would happen).  What he really wanted was a way to report what happened without her getting into trouble to pre-empt any illusion that he'd done something wrong. 

FWIW he's a 6'8" muscular guy with a serial killer beard and tattooed up, she's a 5'6" skinny blonde.  I'm sure seeing their address in the police blotter saying the cops came for a domestic fight played into his decision not to call the cops.  He/I were also worried that if he called the cops it would be one of those "you should both not press charges since you have a cut face and she has bruised wrists" but that she was so intoxicated that she wouldn't care and press charges anyways if given a chance.  She's spiteful when she's drunk.  He has a kid with another women from a previous relationship that they share custody of, he was worried this would bite him on that front as well if they ever had custody issues again.

Mostly, I've just rarely found myself in a position where I had NO idea what in the world would actually happen.  Usually I can at least kind of figure out likely outcomes.  My only thoughts here were any calls to the cops means they're going over to their house to talk to her (at which point their marriage is over, which wouldn't be a disappointment to me).

[Deleted]

"So that's really the question...what happens if he calls the cops, but refuses to press charges? "

I called the cops over my ex. I didn't press charges but they took him to jail anyway for that night. Then even though I didn't press charges, he still had to go to court because the state presses charges on your behalf. So even if he doesn't press charges, she may still be in trouble.

[Deleted]

Of course, when I called the cops it was at the time of the event. Not sure if it is different since some time has passed.

[Deleted]

I have no experience, but I would at least have taken pictures of him.  I would have had him write down as much as he could remember as well while it was still fresh in his memory.  He probably should include his rationale as to why he didn't call (scared it would end his marriage, affect his children, he wasn't really hurt but it was necessary to stop her before it escalated even further, etc.)

That would be, in my opinion, important to the police.  He does know this will probably happen again since you said this is her MO?  It doesn't matter if she doesn't get wasted often.  It will happen again, and it may be worse.

I wouldn't want to go out in a vindictive manner, but I would want out.  He needs to see a divorce lawyer as soon as possible.

[Sharon]

He should have called the cops immediately and not left the house.

I have a male relative who left the house when his ex started doing that kind of crap.  She broke some pictures and dishes etc and called the cops on him.  He was arrested.  When they separated and were trying to hammer out custody/visitation that became a real issue.  He had a DV mark against him even though the charges were dropped.  Just the fact that he had been arrested etc raised a suspicion. 

[hoops902]

Aug 19, 2013 16:50:26 GMT -5 @bunnysmom said:

Of course, when I called the cops it was at the time of the event. Not sure if it is different since some time has passed.

He's not calling them now for sure.  I'm telling the story now, but the question really came up that night about an hour after it happened.  We were both trying to come up with a solution which involved him having it recorded with the authorities without her getting into trouble.  Now that the time has passed and he knows she's not going to either call them based on anger that night or the next day due to a fuzzy memory of reality it's a non-issue to him.  It was totally a consideration for a pre-emptive measure so that if anything was going to be reported he wanted it to be immediately so that they could see how drunk she was and the slash on his face was still visible.

[Peace Of Mind]

I would take pictures of any bruising he may have from being punched in the mouth. Did he get a split lip from it? He needs to document exactly what happened while it's fresh in his mind.

If she has bruising from him holding her wrists he needs to document in detail what he did and why.

He should schedule marital counseling for both of them and she needs to go to AA. He may want to go to Alanon as well. These people have problems and they need to be worked out before it escalates.

[Deleted]

I agree with others. I would take pictures of what she did to him. If this repeats, at least he has evidence that she has done this before because to be honest anybody would have a hard time believing that a 5'6" skinny girl was able to hurt a 6'8" muscular guy.

[kittensaver]

I have a male relative who went through this with the X-DW. Initially, I believed him (that she attacked him), because of the history of some of her other behaviors. He was reluctant to say anything or call the cops because of embarrassment, and a fear that no one would believe him. Turns out, he was right. It turned into a total "he said, she said" thing. They both "took photos" and "documented incidents." They both accused each other of domestic abuse/physical violence. I don't think the real truth will ever be known. But at least he got divorced and moved on. Your relative should to the same - stat.

[hoops902]

::I have no experience, but I would at least have taken pictures of him. I would have had him write down as much as he could remember as well while it was still fresh in his memory.::

Definitely.  Did both.  Also saved the photos she sent him of her night to my computer in case she messes with his phone or it breaks accidentally.  In case it comes up later and she says she wasn't drinking.  He also saved the texts from her that says she can't remember that night and that she's sorry she hit him after he texted her about what happened.

::He does know this will probably happen again since you said this is her MO?::

She'll definitely go on a tyrade again.  That part is her MO.  I don't know about hitting him, if it's the first time or not.  The yelling I can definitely say is her MO, the physical violence I don't really know.  Supposedly she's stopped drinking and that was his condition to not filing for divorce.  But that's all secondhand.

::He should have called the cops immediately and not left the house.::

I agree, he probably should have locked himself in a room and called.  He just kind of freaked out from the sounds of it, he couldn't control her, she was in the kitchen and he was scared to let go of her because she was throwing things.  I think in his mind it was just going to keep escalating until he left.  He needed to get the dog to safety too.  I think in his mind it was escalating to the point that he was going to have to legitimately do something physical to her to stop her if she grabbed a knife and he was scared of what that would be.

[Phoenix84]

Well, I know if I had a wife that did those things I'd expect some serious changes or I would end the marriage myself.  I don't know the history of the couple, but he should consider ending the marriage as it is if this is common behavior.  To me, physical violence in a relationship, even if it doesn't "really hurt" is totally unacceptable.  Being drunk is no excuse.  Rational adults simply don't behave in that manner.  But I can understand your brother wanting to put a bit of time between the event and making any major decisions.  Just pointing out he may want to start planning an exit strategy, no one deserves a wife like that.

As for what will happen if the cops get called, I really have no idea.  I have zero experience with calling the cops in domestic violence situations, and don't really know the law.  I would assume they would show up and make a report, which would be useful should later incidents occur.  I don't think they'd do much else.  Would it end their marriage?  Probably, but it sounds like that's going to run it's course anyway.  So I personally wouldn't view that as a great loss.

I guess if it were my brother, I'd focus first and foremost on choosing to leave the marriage or stay, and that would influence my decision to call the cops or not.

If any woman ever tried that shit with me I'd be gone from the marriage so fast their head would spin.  I would refuse to put up with that behavior.

[Deleted]

The pix are a great idea.

Hoops I'm sorry your brother and your family are going through this. 

As you know I live in France, so what I'm about to post may not be any help. Here there is a legal procedure called a "main courant", ie "record". So here your brother could have gone down to the police station, and spoken to an officer. The officer would have either taken an OFFICIAL statement, or opted to let your brother "record the facts" (ie write them down) in a huge book. 

There are NO legal pursuits with this procedure. But, it would document facts if and when your brother decided to pursue things, and / or act in his defense if his wife did. It basically signals that if / when either of them do anything legal, there are documented events that happened beforehand.

I used that proceeding when my ex left me, to legally document the fact that he had "abandoned the marital home" (legal blabla, I know, but I wanted it "on the record" that he had left against my will so I could keep my kids in the even that he fought me for them.) 

I don't know if there is a similar procedure or not in the US, but if there is, I would encourage your brother to do it. Pix are another great idea. 

Another good idea would be for your brother to see a doctor the next time this happens, if he has ANY injuries whatsoever. Imagine how it would look for him now if his wife went to the doctor with her bruised wrists. 

I don't need to tell you that women are far more likely to keep their kids in cases of divorce or domestic violence. So, your brother needs to protect himself. 

Best of luck to all of you. 

[Tiny]

***Deleted*** due to inapropraite snarkiness

*Thanks, sweetie!  That shows real constraint and we appreciate it! - mmhmm, Administrator

[Deleted]

Actually, I DO have a question ... if your brother is at work and his wife is partying, where are their kids?! I know you say they are at the grandparents' house, but I assumed that was a result of this altercation. I guess I'm wrong, especially if this happens regularly?!

[Deleted]

He has kids and that would be my first concern. If she that spiteful she could cause him a lot of trouble when it comes to custody/visitation etc.

For that reason and that reason only I would probably distance myself from her. People tends to escalade and she has gone from just yelling/belittling him to now hitting/throwing stuff at him.

I say it is only a matter of time before she uses his acts of self defense (If it happens again) against him and cry "abuse".

[hoops902]

Aug 19, 2013 17:18:55 GMT -5 @debthaven2 said:

Actually, I DO have a question ... if your brother is at work and his wife is partying, where are there kids?! I know you say they are at the grandparents' house, but I assumed that was a result of this altercation. I guess I'm wrong. 

They were scheduled for a sleepover at the grandparents and were already there.  Actually his kid from a previous relationship was with his mother.  The other 2 (hers, and theirs) were being babysat by the grandparents so she could go out for her friends b-day and they just stay the night when they do that.  It was just him, her, and the dog.

[Deleted]

OK thanks, got it. 

[milee]

Tough to know what would have happened without seeing the two of them and also listening to how they interacted with the police (if they had called the police.)  From what little you're describing, I'm guessing the police would have written it up as a mutual combat type situation.  If either of them had any prior arrests or were nasty to the police or each other in front of the police, that might tip the scales.

What does your brother want to do with the relationship? 

[swamp]

I wouldn't call the cops. Unfortunately it's usually the guy who gets charged with domestic violence, especially if he's huge. 

[mmhmm]

I'm with cawiau.  My first concern would be the children.  As you say, hoops, this isn't going to be the last of these episodes.  What happens when one of them occurs when the children are there?  That, to me, is downright scary.

[JustLurkin]

Aug 19, 2013 16:40:19 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

We both agreed the "right" answer is to call the cops, and that we'd encourage anyone in the situation to do so, but inside the situation, he didn't want to

That alone has me suggesting he try an Al-Anon meeting, they would better be able to help him in addressing both the problem and the resolution.

He was debating calling the police...<snip> if he calls the cops, he will not press charges.

So what would be the point in calling them?

 what happens if he calls the cops, but refuses to press charges? (He didn't, but neither of us had any idea what would happen).

Some jurisdictions are tired of this, and will move forward with charges anyway.

She's spiteful when she's drunk. He has a kid with another women from a previous relationship that they share custody of, he was worried this would bite him on that front as well if they ever had custody issues again.

Did I mention al-anon?

but that she was so intoxicated that she wouldn't care ... My only thoughts here were any calls to the cops means they're going over to their house to talk to her

Sorry your brother is going through this, which means you are too.    Not that it matters, just curious, how long have they been married?

[The Captain]

Aug 19, 2013 17:43:53 GMT -5 swamp said:

I wouldn't call the cops. Unfortunately it's usually the guy who gets charged with domestic violence, especially if he's huge. 

Swamp I get what you're saying but this is WRONG on so many levels.

It's attitudes like this that allow women to use men as punching bags.  If the roles were reversed and you said that about a man beating on a woman all the feminazies would be up in arms demanding the laws/societies perceptions change NOW!!!

Police should take DV seriously, regardless of whom is on the receiving end.

[Deleted]

 Former marriages, currently dysfunctional relationship... I'm guessing their kids will also eventually have similar experiences.
 That's how these cycles roll. They're all too often oddly self-perpetuating.
 I will go out on a limb and opine that it will be important to determine why the alcohol-abuser is so miserable, and why she thinks it is acceptable to lash out at the father of her (younger) children... is it her wish to share the misery, or is she just sadistic by nature?

[constanz22]

Aug 19, 2013 17:43:53 GMT -5 swamp said:

I wouldn't call the cops. Unfortunately it's usually the guy who gets charged with domestic violence, especially if he's huge. 

Agree, from a social work experience. That, and depending on what state they live in, whether he "wants" to press charges or not, sometimes that is not an option. The state WILL file. And then there is the issue of the kids (from a social work standpoint again). CPS can, and often will, remove the kids if there is DV in the home when the kids are present. I know for THIS one they weren't, but it sounds like it happens with some regularity. If he truly is not the perpetrator, he needs to CYA, which probably needs to include moving out and taking his kids, and filing for emergency custody of them.

[swamp]

Aug 19, 2013 18:00:08 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Aug 19, 2013 17:43:53 GMT -5 swamp said:

I wouldn't call the cops. Unfortunately it's usually the guy who gets charged with domestic violence, especially if he's huge. 

Swamp I get what you're saying but this is WRONG on so many levels.

It's attitudes like this that allow women to use men as punching bags.  If the roles were reversed and you said that about a man beating on a woman all the feminazies would be up in arms demanding the laws/societies perceptions change NOW!!!

Police should take DV seriously, regardless of whom is on the receiving end.

I didn't say it was right, but it's reality. 

[Sum Dum Gai]

If he's absolutely not going to press charges either way, he shouldn't involve the police.  It's not their job to come out and talk her down.  What he should have done is called the police before he had to restrain her.  Lock himself in a bathroom or something.  Let her trash the house and kick the door while he calls, then he should have pressed charges.  The marriage is already over, he just won't admit it yet.  Since he's taken it the whole time and didn't press charges, when he finally mans up and leaves her ass there's no record of the abuse that he can point to while trying to keep her crazy ass away from his kids.

[Nazgul Girl]

   I think your brother sounds kind of intimidated by the whole situation, which seems to be just what she wants.   My brother is also a tall, large person, and I've seen him become flummoxed because he is angry, but doesn't want to hurt anyone, so he retreats.

   Your brother needs to get out of the marriage pronto.   She has it in for him, and is probably going after sole custody.   Why stick around when someone treats you like that ?   I know there are children involved, but he would only need to share custody with the child he had with her.   He should look for a divorce attorney and a separate residence asap.   

   He should ask the attorney about what his next step is as far as the domestic violence situation, and then follow the advice to the letter.    Good luck to your DB.

[hoops902]

Lots of good advice, i'll try to answer some of the questions.  For the record, I did not tell him to call the police, I told him to do what he thought was right.  I felt like telling him to leave her and call the police was a bit of me rubbing it in.  I've been telling him since they met not to date her, marry her, or have a kid with her.  He knows I hate her, which is why I'm the one he came to, he knows if they get back together my opinion of her based on this is not going to get any worse.

::So what would be the point in calling them?::

He didn't want her in trouble, but I think his biggest fear was she wakes up tomorrow from a partial blackout and decides that he was abusing her.  He was just wanting it documented.  

::Not that it matters, just curious, how long have they been married?::

5 years or so.

::What does your brother want to do with the relationship?::

No idea, it changes daily.  We're also not a very communicative family (not in an adversarial way, but we all "mind our own business" so to speak).  He broke up with his last serious relationship and she was moving out of the house we all shared before I knew they had broken up 2 months prior.  He was "getting a divorce" last year, not thinking about it, doing it.  I found out 2 weeks later they decided not to 3 days after he told me that.

::Former marriages, currently dysfunctional relationship... I'm guessing their kids will also eventually have similar experiences.::

Former relationships with children involved.  No marriages.  Not that it matters, just clarifying.

::I know for THIS one they weren't, but it sounds like it happens with some regularity.::

As much as i dislike the woman, i feel pretty confident this doesn't happen when the kids are around.  She can't go out and get blackout drunk really unless someone is willing to watch the kids overnight.

::The marriage is already over, he just won't admit it yet. Since he's taken it the whole time and didn't press charges, when he finally mans up and leaves her ass there's no record of the abuse that he can point to while trying to keep her crazy ass away from his kids.::

I think up to now it's mostly/perhaps all been just verbal horribleness which isn't really reportable.  

::Tough to know what would have happened without seeing the two of them and also listening to how they interacted with the police (if they had called the police.::

I think that was part of his "pros" on calling.  He was sober, she was trashed.  He didn't want a potential conversation with the cops to delay until the next day when she would be sober and potentially believable.

::I think your brother sounds kind of intimidated by the whole situation, which seems to be just what she wants.::

Yes, he's been through the custody thing and he feels very relieved he got primary custody.  It was an amiable split, both parents said very nice things about the other in the hearing, and it basically came down to the kid's best interests.  Even that "nice" process was stressful.  He knows this one is NOT going to be that.  I think he also feels like he's going to rip apart his child and hers who are the same age and best friends.  He's the only dad her kid has ever really known (he spends 3 days a year with his bio dad).  He feels responsible, and she's not the type who's going to let him see her kid ever again.

[tallguy]

If he calls the cops, he will not press charges. So that's really the question...what happens if he calls the cops, but refuses to press charges?

As for what will happen if the cops get called, I really have no idea. I have zero experience with calling the cops in domestic violence situations, and don't really know the law. I would assume they would show up and make a report, which would be useful should later incidents occur.

In some states the police are mandated to make an arrest whether either party wants them to or not.  They don't kid around with this.

[JustLurkin]

Aug 19, 2013 18:33:56 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

He knows I hate her, which is why I'm the one he came to, he knows if they get back together my opinion of her based on this is not going to get any worse.

Naw, he knows you'll give him solid sensible advice...whether or not he takes it!  He'll *hear* what you say and play it over and over til he "gets it".

My ex-SIL and I were somewhere one day and she came up to me and said "When you told me not to marry your brother, I thought it was because you didn't like me..." then she teared up and said "...but now I know you said it because you love me very much." she hugged me and walked away.

It's like that...so keep the advice sensible and don't say anything that would drive a wedge between the two of you.