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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2013 13:10:03 GMT -5
On Thursday DH received a from MIL's "cognitive therapist" that she thinks MIL needs 'round the clock supervision. DH made his normal Sunday am call and MIL can't remember a discussion she had with him on Wednesday. This isn't a sudden overnight thing but more of a pronounced decline. He needs to actually talk to the therapist (whom MIL says she doesn't know about).
I think DH has to get more involved with detailed discussions with MIL's care providers, especially her doctors and managing her care. We are in the SF Bay Area and she's in the Portland OR area (about 650 mi away). Although MIL refuses to relocate closer to us, or move to a retirement home, at least she has very good long term care insurance which has allowed her to have home health care for the last 3 years.
For you healthcare providers or folks who have had experience with elderly parent care, how do you have conversations with your parent's doctors under the HIPAA rules? DH has the Health Care Directive but what I really think he needs is a power of atty. What is your experience and/or recommendation?
Thanks
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 4, 2013 13:34:46 GMT -5
When I went into the hospital last year for my health misadventure, I signed a release form as to whom my healthcare providers speak to. TD was the contact person, with my sister and dad both being able to call and get updates from my healthcare providers, if they wanted to. However, both got most of their info from TD instead.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 4, 2013 13:44:40 GMT -5
You can name a "Health Care" Power of Attorney. Most people have the regular POA which really only covers the financial aspects. And, you could talk to MIL and have her contact her doctor that you may have information. And, then i would periodically get in touch with her doctors to know what is going on.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 4, 2013 14:01:22 GMT -5
Does you MIL's cognitive therapist have to follow HIPAA regulations?
Under HIPAA, your MIL must give her written permission to her physicians to provide your husband with her medical updates. I would suggest your husband make a trip north the next time his mom has an appointment with her physician have her sign permission at the doctor's office for him to receive medical updates. If he asks her to sign permission over the phone and she forgets to do so at her next doctor's visit, he won't be able to get updates. Best to do it in person with her.
It's tough to do it all at a distance so at least one trip north will have to be made.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2013 14:13:51 GMT -5
Two months ago I had a "long form" POA sent to MIL which states it's for both financial and medical. She was signing refi papers and was going to be sitting down with a notary anyway. At the time I was thinking that she might want DH or I to handle stuff including the sale of her house down the road if she wasn't feeling "with it".
Unfortunately I didn't realize that there were options and instead of checking the box that said the POA was immediately effective she checked "when I'm incapacitated per OR law". I don't think she realized that "incapacitated" meant we would have to actually go to court. I didn't get a copy of the POA until two weeks ago. Although DH has spoken to her at least 5 times she's never been with it enough for me to have a discussion about the problem. She's either been extremely tired or upset about something.
Of course I can always have another POA sent to me, I check the appropriate box and send to her OR I could contact her attorney and have him make a personal visit.
I'm just checking all the options.
Also, since she's not hospitalized and is dealing with multiple organizations and services I need something that's pretty broad.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2013 14:21:20 GMT -5
Does you MIL's cognitive therapist have to follow HIPAA regulations?
Under HIPAA, your MIL must give her written permission to her physicians to provide your husband with her medical updates. I would suggest your husband make a trip north the next time his mom has an appointment with her physician have her sign permission at the doctor's office for him to receive medical updates. If he asks her to sign permission over the phone and she forgets to do so at her next doctor's visit, he won't be able to get updates. Best to do it in person with her.
It's tough to do it all at a distance so at least one trip north will have to be made. I would think the cognitive therapist would have to follow HIPAA. DH doesn't think he's ever spoken to her before. His last visit up north was for a week three weeks ago. I insisted that he get a copy of the POA from her safety deposit box.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 4, 2013 18:30:20 GMT -5
Well under HIPAA you don't need a POA as long as the patient signs a HIPAA waiver form. The doctor/treating profession should have one; it gives permission for that treating professional to release information to whomever the patient lists on the form. Have MIL sign the form and specify her son.
The only bad part: there's no one universal release of information form. They need to be signed provider-by-provider.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2013 19:06:29 GMT -5
Well under HIPAA you don't need a POA as long as the patient signs a HIPAA waiver form. The doctor/treating profession should have one; it gives permission for that treating professional to release information to whomever the patient lists on the form. Have MIL sign the form and specify her son. The only bad part: there's no one universal release of information form. They need to be signed provider-by-provider. Yeah, that's the problem. She's going from specialist to specialist. I'm thinking that having her sign a new POA with some explicit health care language is going to be the only way to handle it. I'm either going to need to have DH go up there and have her sign the new form or have her attorney make another personal visit and have her sign his form. This will be another $350-$500. Ouch!
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Aug 4, 2013 20:14:27 GMT -5
Given the fact that the therapist contacted your DH, most likely she will speak with him. I have been in medical social work for many years and the reality is many care providers will speak with caring family members without signed releases. We do this under the auspices of providing the best care for the patient in need. Even pror to his incapacitating illness, my father's doctors always spoke openly and frankly with me about him and his conditions.
Is your husband listed on forms as her emergency contact? The fact that she is losing her mental faculties can be viewed as an emergency in these circumstances. Never bring up the limitations and remember what you are doing is reasonable and in the best interests of his mother.
Are there other siblings or is your DH an only child? As an only child, I have found that it is both easier and harder to care for my father - easier because there are no other children to disagree with and harder because the entire burden is on me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2013 21:23:37 GMT -5
Hi Works4me, I'm so glad you responded! I thought of you after I posted. DH is an only child. I told him that he's got a part time job dealing with his mom. He tried to blow me off but I told him that he needs to line up alternate support when he's gone. He just booked his 55th birthday in Ka'uai and I told him he really needs to speak with his aunt (MIL's sister in law) to get back up. Aunt is no spring chicken herself (77 with her own health problems) but she's helped out many times with the follow up ride to the hospital. DH thinks a lot of the issues is due to on-going renal failure.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Aug 5, 2013 4:01:44 GMT -5
Glad to be of help.
Did some work with a dialysis unit many years ago and there is are certain types of mental issues that population is prone to.
Is she on dialysis? I.ask because most units have a dedicated social worker who could be of help to you and your DH.
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bookkeeper
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Post by bookkeeper on Aug 5, 2013 8:08:52 GMT -5
I had this same problem with my parents. Their health was teetering so badly, that I point blank asked them if they would share their medical information with me so we could help them get better. They agreed. I started a medical notebook for each of them. This note book had the print out of all their pharmacy purchases for the last year. It had appointment cards from each doctor they saw and it had folders to keep test result papers and discharge papers together.
Once I had the medical notebook together, I started calling their care providers and asking for their information release forms. The providers mailed them to me, I signed them, had my parents sign them and mailed them back. Now I was in the loop for my parents and we all had information that we could work with.
Once we all got organized, the medical visits were more productive, because they now had treatment dates and the names of doctors and prescriptions right in front of them.
It took an emergency visit over a weekend to accomplish this, but it has saved so much time since then. They are better now and handling their own medical appointments, but they still keep the notebooks up to date because they see the value in having their act together when visiting the Dr.'s office.
There may come a day when the medical notebooks do the talking, because they can't.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Aug 5, 2013 10:00:48 GMT -5
Whatever you do, make sure DH follows up/verifies or goes with her. My MIL supposedly "took care" of a whole bunch of things that we have now learned was actually done incorrectly or there was some "misunderstanding" as to what was actually done. We have had to hire an attorney to unravel the mess for what should have been a simple estate. I asked DH numerous times to followup on certain things and he never did because he didn't want to piss her off. He wanted to believe that MIL was so organized/responsible and "with it" that questioning her would be an insult. He is finding out that things were not as they appeared.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 10:02:18 GMT -5
Glad to be of help. Did some work with a dialysis unit many years ago and there is are certain types of mental issues that population is prone to. Is she on dialysis? I.ask because most units have a dedicated social worker who could be of help to you and your DH. She is not dialysis yet. She told DH that she has been diagnosed with stage 4 kidney disease a couple of months ago. She also told him that she would not go on dialysis. As far as I know it has not yet been recommended. It's certainly possible she could change her mind given that the procedure isn't as bad as it used to be.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 10:16:21 GMT -5
I had this same problem with my parents. Their health was teetering so badly, that I point blank asked them if they would share their medical information with me so we could help them get better. They agreed. I started a medical notebook for each of them. This note book had the print out of all their pharmacy purchases for the last year. It had appointment cards from each doctor they saw and it had folders to keep test result papers and discharge papers together. Once I had the medical notebook together, I started calling their care providers and asking for their information release forms. The providers mailed them to me, I signed them, had my parents sign them and mailed them back. Now I was in the loop for my parents and we all had information that we could work with. Once we all got organized, the medical visits were more productive, because they now had treatment dates and the names of doctors and prescriptions right in front of them. It took an emergency visit over a weekend to accomplish this, but it has saved so much time since then. They are better now and handling their own medical appointments, but they still keep the notebooks up to date because they see the value in having their act together when visiting the Dr.'s office. There may come a day when the medical notebooks do the talking, because they can't. This is an excellent idea and I would follow it if it were my parent. I'm printing it out for DH. I'm concerned though that he thinks he can keep all the Dr's appts in his head (in this way he is just like MIL).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 10:33:54 GMT -5
Whatever you do, make sure DH follows up/verifies or goes with her. My MIL supposedly "took care" of a whole bunch of things that we have now learned was actually done incorrectly or there was some "misunderstanding" as to what was actually done. We have had to hire an attorney to unravel the mess for what should have been a simple estate. I asked DH numerous times to followup on certain things and he never did because he didn't want to piss her off. He wanted to believe that MIL was so organized/responsible and "with it" that questioning her would be an insult. He is finding out that things were not as they appeared. Yes. As already mentioned MIL checked a box on the POA without understanding what it meant. Because of her ADD and her belief that she can still be the senior government executive that she was, she doesn't bother with details. When I reviewed her Estate planning documents December of 2011 I knew there were problems. Being the pushy DIL, I kept nagging her about it. We got those docs re-written in June of 2013.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Aug 5, 2013 11:01:52 GMT -5
Yes. As already mentioned MIL checked a box on the POA without understanding what it meant. Because of her ADD and her belief that she can still be the senior government executive that she was, she doesn't bother with details. When I reviewed her Estate planning documents December of 2011 I knew there were problems. Being the pushy DIL, I kept nagging her about it. We got those docs re-written in June of 2013. Yes MIL re did her will and trust in June as well. She used a guy from "the church" who is retired. My guess is he retired about 30 years ago because the wording in the trust has perplexed the 2 attorney we ran it by so we are hiring someone to sort it out. He didnt want to piss off MIL but now he has a pissed off wife. We are already out thousands and nothing much has been done. It will supposedly be reimbursed so we shall see. The last 6 months have been very unpleasant and could have been made much easier but that isnt how DHs family rolls so here we are.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 11:21:14 GMT -5
whoami, I think we're o.k. Attorney is a currently practicing attorney and nearly 20 years younger than her. I went through her Trust with a fine toothed comb. Everything has been simplified with an elimination of her VERY convoluted dog trust. The attorney tried pushing back a bit because he knows how much she loves the dogs. I told him if he left it in she would want us to include her koi. He couldn't believe it, LOL! He eliminated it. The other big issue was MIL's ever changing list of relatives who were on her "S" list and who would or wouldn't be getting money. Ditto for a list of charities. Fortunately MIL recognized that she didn't want to keep changing her will (actually Trust) and decided to let DH decide what would be best. DH is an only child so at least that part of the equation is much easier. We may need to play around with gifting from us jointly but that's o.k. The one weird thing I thought was that I'm the recipient of her jewelry. I tried to push back. While nice, it's a little odd because I barely wear any jewelry any more. But the attorney insisted. He said that in his experience it's important for older women to know where their jewelry is going. I reviewed all the changes before he brought it over to her to sign. I also have an electronic version with her signature as well as a hard copy in a binder I've made up for her. I've learned the hard way I have to be the secretary of the family documents as she can't find anything.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 5, 2013 13:05:52 GMT -5
@bonnap - all I can say is you have my sympathies.
We went through all this when my mom passed and she was the only one with any kind of POA for grandma. My uncle (grandma's son) was worse than useless and we would have been completely hosed if grandma's doctors followed the letter of the law with regards to HIPPA.
Fortunately, grandma and mom shared the same doctors who knew my dad, my sister and me very well and they worked with us to get grandma situated as comfortably as possible. We eventually managed to get grandma to sign the legal paperwork to give us POA but it took some time.
It was a nightmare that I will work very hard to ensure DD does not have to repeat.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Aug 5, 2013 13:18:25 GMT -5
whoami, The other big issue was MIL's ever changing list of relatives who were on her "S" list and who would or wouldn't be getting money. Ditto for a list of charities. Fortunately MIL recognized that she didn't want to keep changing her will (actually Trust) and decided to let DH decide what would be best. This made me laugh as my MIL had an ever changing list of charities as well. She had multiple codicils which did not conform to California guidelines/law and would have likely ended up being thrown out. She ultimately decided to gift her assorted charities herself before she died, since she apparently knew when she would be done on this earth. She also decided to let DH make the decisions via the trust, but the problem is the way the its worded, one attorney is concerned about a conflict of interest so we are going to give it to an attorney and let him do whatever needs to be done to comply with the will, trust and the law. There is already rumbling from the useless sibling, who thinks they and DH are going to be in business renting out the house which DH has said in no uncertain terms, is not happening. The sibling cannot afford to buy out DHs share, so it will be sold either to us or a third party. There will be no "joint" ownership between those two. What was really weird was things that were super important to her just prior to rewriting the will, were not even addressed in the will which has added a whole other element of aggravation to the situation. DH mentioned those things to her, but she told him it was his problem to sort out. While she avoided probate, she opened up a whole new can of worms.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Aug 5, 2013 13:21:11 GMT -5
I don't know if the nurses were quoting a Federal or State law, but when The Ex was in the hospital after his heart attack, DD1 was told that she had say so over his care as his oldest child if he reached a point of not being able to make decisions for himself. The Ex doesn't have any kind of medical directives in place and fortunately never reached that point but it was good information to have since my former in-laws were giving DD1 a hard time about how they thought things should be handled when the Docs were still trying to figure out what brought on the attack.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 5, 2013 13:25:34 GMT -5
I don't know if the nurses were quoting a Federal or State law, but when The Ex was in the hospital after his heart attack, DD1 was told that she had say so over his care as his oldest child if he reached a point of not being able to make decisions for himself. The Ex doesn't have any kind of medical directives in place and fortunately never reached that point but it was good information to have since my former in-laws were giving DD1 a hard time about how they thought things should be handled when the Docs were still trying to figure out what brought on the attack. We were told the same thing in Grandma's case with my Uncle since he was the oldest living child. However since he choose to do nothing we had no problem getting her doctor's to let us help/give directives for Grandma. Apparently in some states the nearest living relative also has the right to override a DNR or living will as well. I don't know how to fix that.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Aug 5, 2013 13:46:42 GMT -5
I don't know if the nurses were quoting a Federal or State law, but when The Ex was in the hospital after his heart attack, DD1 was told that she had say so over his care as his oldest child if he reached a point of not being able to make decisions for himself. The Ex doesn't have any kind of medical directives in place and fortunately never reached that point but it was good information to have since my former in-laws were giving DD1 a hard time about how they thought things should be handled when the Docs were still trying to figure out what brought on the attack. We were told the same thing in Grandma's case with my Uncle since he was the oldest living child. However since he choose to do nothing we had no problem getting her doctor's to let us help/give directives for Grandma. Apparently in some states the nearest living relative also has the right to override a DNR or living will as well. I don't know how to fix that. That I didn't know. Either way, I can't seem to get my mother to do hers and she has made "notes" and changes on her will too. Hopefully she won't have health issues at the end that require us to make any kinds of decisions because if its left to my oldest sister, well, lets just say she only knows what Mom tells her versus me, my son, and my other sister having actually gone to various appointments with her. And knowing the condition of her will right now, I've already begun mentally preparing to just walk away from anything I may be entitled to except one piece of jewelry. The others can fight over the house and any funds she may have at the end if they want. Mom has done more than enough to help me as an adult so losing "my share" will hurt more emotionally than anything else.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 5, 2013 13:59:07 GMT -5
That I didn't know. Either way, I can't seem to get my mother to do hers and she has made "notes" and changes on her will too. Hopefully she won't have health issues at the end that require us to make any kinds of decisions because if its left to my oldest sister, well, lets just say she only knows what Mom tells her versus me, my son, and my other sister having actually gone to various appointments with her. And knowing the condition of her will right now, I've already begun mentally preparing to just walk away from anything I may be entitled to except one piece of jewelry. The others can fight over the house and any funds she may have at the end if they want. Mom has done more than enough to help me as an adult so losing "my share" will hurt more emotionally than anything else. I am sorry you are going through this. I don't know anything about the one item that is important to you (does it have value other than sentimental?), but does your mom know how important it is to you? When my mother passed I was *supposed* to get all of her jewelry since I was the oldest daughter and had the only grandchild to pass things onto. Problem was mom never discussed any of this with my sister. When we were going through Mom's things sis asked if she could pick out one or two items. I told her she was welcome to whatever she wanted. Sis wanted Mom's wedding set since Sis had spent a lot of time helping Mom pick it out and had fond memories of working on this with Mom (Mom and dad were dirt poor when they married and couldn't afford a set until many years later). Since I wasn't involved in that process (had moved out of the home by then) the set really didn't mean much to me. Since neither sis nor I are really materialistic I'm sure Mom didn't think sis would be too interested in the set either. Sis got the set (plus a few other pieces) that she wanted. When my grandpa passed the only thing I asked for was his conductor's hat. He used to be a train conductor at the steel mill and wore the same hat for over 50 years. Every time we worked in his garden together he had that hat on. I know grandma threw the old ratty hat away thinking it was worthless cause the new hat I was given by her/mom had never been worn a day in anyone's life. I know grandpa would have given me that hat in a second had I asked for it while he was alive.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 14:16:27 GMT -5
For the life of us, we can't get DHs parents to do a will ("we don't have anything!" Or medical POA or a tying. We are 40 and have better documents than they do.
With my mom, I ended up getting conservatorship of the person as well as a POA. It did have to go through court, but m attorney went...I didn't have to be there. Then I was able to make any and all decisions regarding her care. That might be a bit extreme in your situation....my mother was suffering from fairly well advanced early onset Alzheimer's.
Regardless, I will tell you that it is very difficult to manage from a distance. Is there any way you can convince her to move closer? Or you can move closer to her? This is one thing that worries me about my dad and stepmom....they are far from any of us kids and refuse to move. Since they're still with it, we haven't pushed it, but there may come a time when we need to.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 17:43:28 GMT -5
For the life of us, we can't get DHs parents to do a will ("we don't have anything!" Or medical POA or a tying. We are 40 and have better documents than they do. With my mom, I ended up getting conservatorship of the person as well as a POA. It did have to go through court, but m attorney went...I didn't have to be there. Then I was able to make any and all decisions regarding her care. That might be a bit extreme in your situation....my mother was suffering from fairly well advanced early onset Alzheimer's. Regardless, I will tell you that it is very difficult to manage from a distance. Is there any way you can convince her to move closer? Or you can move closer to her? This is one thing that worries me about my dad and stepmom....they are far from any of us kids and refuse to move. Since they're still with it, we haven't pushed it, but there may come a time when we need to. Monkey, As you may have read on the other threads, not everyone needs a will or a Trust. The laws of intestate distribution are pretty straightforward. If your parents don't have much many states exempt small estates from probate. The kicker is if there is real estate involved. It's nice to avoid the cost and delay of probate if you can. It's too early to attempt to obtain conservatorship. At this point MIL just comes across as "forgetful" or "has trouble concentrating". That's a far cry from being incompetent. I prefer to go through the POA process in order to avoid the humiliation and cost of going to court. It is difficult to manage from a distance and you have no idea of how hard DH and I have tried to get her to move down here and simplify her life. Her house is a two level 3000 sq.ft. house with a two-level yard. She bought it 10 years ago assuming that her sister, or perhaps her sister in law would move in with her. Of course she didn't consult with them beforehand. And neither one of them are crazy enough to do that to themselves. Then she tried to guilt DH and me into moving in. Even before she started having cognitive problems she was a very, very difficult person to spend time with. Three and a half years ago I stayed with her for a week to help her after one of her surgeries. I was a complete wreck. And my thanks for traveling there from Germany on my own dime was that she told DH I was drinking two bottles of wine a night. I told DH that I would never do that to myself again (meaning being a caregiver for her for a week). He refuses to be a caregiver for her at all. And in case you missed it in the earlier post, she does have LTC and has someone for 8+ hours a day, 7 days a week. In January, her SIL (her last remaining family in the area) is going to put her condo on the market and move to Seattle area retirement home to be closer to her kids. My MIL should do the same thing but she's in total denial about how un elder friendly she's made her house. About six months ago she slipped and fell into the Disney-landesque ponds and waterfall features that she has rebuilt 3 times during the 10 years she has owned the house. She laid in it for over an hour until some passer-byers heard her calling for help. This happened just after she fired her caregiver of 2+ years for being too bossy. She falls quite frequently because she forgets her cane or walker. She is in a very,very good financial position. Her pension is about $120k gross and she has about $1M in assets including her house. She could afford to buy a smaller, more elder-friendly house near us. But she doesn't want to pay the nearly $700k she would need to for a house half the size of what she has now in our middle class neighborhood. One of the reasons DH and I chose to move back to this house was to be at the mid-point between my 77 year old father in San Diego and his 78 year old mother in Portland OR. After my father's 78 year old girlfriend, I am his next care manager. Unlike my MIL, my father has no financial resources. If he didn't live with his girlfriend he would be in section 8 housing. He does receive foodstamps. Being in the SF Bay Area we are only an hour and a half flight away or a day's drive for either of our remaining parents.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 19:26:50 GMT -5
I'm sorry, Bonny, if I came off as critical...I certainly didn't mean to. Just sharing my experience....you have all of my sympathies. It is a difficult position to be in.
DHs parents do have real estate and they want it to pass to one person, and one person only. Which is part of why I really wish they'd do a will....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 20:00:22 GMT -5
I'm sorry, Bonny, if I came off as critical...I certainly didn't mean to. Just sharing my experience....you have all of my sympathies. It is a difficult position to be in. DHs parents do have real estate and they want it to pass to one person, and one person only. Which is part of why I really wish they'd do a will.... Monkey, You didn't come off as critical at all. No need to apologize! While our situation is somewhat difficult, I recognize it could be much, much worse. Since MIL isn't an easy person to deal with we are at least fortunate that she has money and had the foresight to buy LTC insurance. With respect to your DH's situation, do your in-laws want to leave the real estate to DH? If not, then when the last parent dies intestate the property will probably need to go through probate and then it will be sold and the proceeds distributed equally with the three children. However, there is an interesting option in some states, like AZ. They have something called a beneficiary deed. Title doesn't transfer until the death of the owner (so the heir would have the benefit of the stepped up tax basis) and there's no need for probate.
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Knee Deep in Water Chloe
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 21:04:44 GMT -5
Posts: 14,244
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Aug 5, 2013 20:59:11 GMT -5
Oh, Bonn! I wasin Portland yesterday. I'd have stopped to check on her!
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Deleted
Joined: Oct 6, 2024 22:28:32 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2013 7:05:45 GMT -5
Bonny....no, they don't want to leave it to DH because apparently we don't need it. Is the splitting proceeds across the siblings something that is required? Or could the other siblings just agree to give it all to one of them? Or would that then be considered a gift for tax purposes.
I guess I'm wondering if all the siblings know that's what they want, if they can just handle it that way or if it has negative tax implications by doing that. If it doesn't, then I guess it's not a big deal.
Of course, I disagree with leaving everything to one person, but that's just my own personal opinion and, since its their stuff, I keep my mouth shut.
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