whoami
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Post by whoami on Aug 9, 2013 10:48:57 GMT -5
Seriously, you cannot force someone to do use good judgement. If she falls and ends up in a care center it will be a direct result of her choices. Sad but that is the way it is. My personal belief is that people have the right to self-determination - unfortunately extremely poor judgement and bad choices are not illegal. This pretty much sums it up. We were after MIL to do a lot of things in the last few months but almost everything fell on deaf ears. It was very frustrating because she really did make things very hard on herself and especially my husband. She did and said a lot of things I would never do to my own kids, but my MIL was pretty self important and no ones feelings and opinions mattered to her as much as her own. In the end, she got what she wanted but left a big mess for us to deal with. The hospice staff interviewed her and found her competent and completely aware and understanding of where she stood so there was really nothing anyone could have done to "take over" the decisions. Hospice was perplexed by her ultimate actions but as I told my husband....she was never really "in" hospice nor did she "work" their program. I am honestly not even sure why she called them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 16:58:19 GMT -5
I agree Works4me and whoami. I just got off the phone today. MIL sent a fruit arrangement to me for my birthday. I called to thank her and the conversation started out well but in the end it turned around to how she can't do anything, she's scared and how she can't just have anyone help her. I told her DH is coming up to help her find a caregiver. She says that she'll either wind up trying to do stuff herself and get hurt or she'll give away her dogs and die. <Sighs> what can you do? She's made the situation very difficult for herself and everyone around her.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Aug 10, 2013 19:06:39 GMT -5
She's trying to play you and you know it. Make sure she knows you are aware of it and won't tolerate it and it will stop.
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Nazgul Girl
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Babysitting our new grandbaby 3 days a week !
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Aug 11, 2013 0:04:55 GMT -5
She's still with it enough to "grandstand." My late grandmother ended up in a nursing home because the aides that my mother and uncle got for her ( this is embarassing, but true, so brace yourselves ) "didn't know their place." She kept firing them and after the fourth one was summarily let go by grandma for no good reason than not knowing the script to Gone With the Wind, off to the nursing home she was trundled. Sorry, but times, fortunately, change. Grandma didn't change with them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 7:53:33 GMT -5
Nazgul,
We have a similar concern.
DH has the unenviable task of explaining to her that she either makes the situation work or he'll have no other option but place her in a nursing home.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Aug 11, 2013 8:25:28 GMT -5
I had posted this one other time.
My grandmother 'refused' to go to a nursing home. She was old (70s) and just couldn't get around good anymore. She was OK during the day, my aunt's family lived beside of her and stopped in for a few minutes every day. But she couldn't be alone at night. My mom and aunt took turns staying every other night with her in case she got up and fell. Both my mom and aunt worked very physical jobs 6 days a week and were worn out. Mom would come home from work, rest for an hour, cook supper then head to my grandmothers house. Got up the next morning at 5:00 am to come home, take a shower and go to work. This went on for over 2 years. 2 YEARS! My aunt's marriage fell apart and my parents marriage was on shaky ground. My grandmother finally passed away at home, never leaving. I can't imagine putting someone in the position she put my mother and aunt in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 9:37:08 GMT -5
I had posted this one other time. My grandmother 'refused' to go to a nursing home. She was old (70s) and just couldn't get around good anymore. She was OK during the day, my aunt's family lived beside of her and stopped in for a few minutes every day. But she couldn't be alone at night. My mom and aunt took turns staying every other night with her in case she got up and fell. Both my mom and aunt worked very physical jobs 6 days a week and were worn out. Mom would come home from work, rest for an hour, cook supper then head to my grandmothers house. Got up the next morning at 5:00 am to come home, take a shower and go to work. This went on for over 2 years. 2 YEARS! My aunt's marriage fell apart and my parents marriage was on shaky ground. My grandmother finally passed away at home, never leaving. I can't imagine putting someone in the position she put my mother and aunt in. I know. I'm saying a prayer that when it comes my time that I'm kind to the people who are trying to help me.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Aug 11, 2013 11:33:50 GMT -5
I was the hard ass in our situation. I told DH under no circumstances would MIL move into our house. I also told him the fact that she is "difficult" is her problem...not ours. If she couldnt figure out how to conducts herself with some social grace, she would be the one miserable, not us. I was not willing to be a martyr to suit my MIL. It made for some very loud discussions in our house and a pretty sucky 6 months, but we survived with our sanity in tact...but just barely.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 17:29:36 GMT -5
Update: DH flew up on Sunday. We have a standing appt. for him to call me every evening. He has spoken with her physical therapist who advised him that if MIL doesn't do her exercises or take her meds she will need to go into assisted living because the home situation is unsustainable. The PT will be talking to MIL on Thursday and advising her about the situation. He says his shocked at her decline from his last visit just about 30 days ago. He says she was down right scary through out the interview, demanding to be fed part-way through the meeting, accusing him of not feeding her enough and then refusing to eat what she had just demanded, and accusing him of trying to give her food she didn't want. He says he's never seen anything like this. I think she may be starting to give up. We're going to take turns flying up and checking on her. I thought we would be doing it monthly but we may have to do it more frequently. I know if I get like this I would want a shot to be put down.
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Works4me
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Someone responded to your personal ad - a German Shepherd named Tara wants to have you for dinner...
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Post by Works4me on Aug 13, 2013 21:13:30 GMT -5
Personally and professionally, when someone declines this quickly there is often a physical reason.
You might want them to check her arteries - especially the ones in her neck that supply her brain. My father declined very quickly in May of 2010 - as in going from living independently and driving (not well but legally) to being unable to even sit up. Turned out his right corotid artery was occluded - thought it was 90% and when the surgeon went in it was fully blocked.
Also take a look at her checkbook register or notebook or whatever she keeps and if possible, talk to people in her life. In his case, you could see his decline during the first two weeks ofthe month. I also found out there had been a problem with him at breakfast with the guys he saw everyday and that one of his doctors' staff was concerned as he showed up on the wrong day for an appointment.
Sorry the you are going through this but at least you are not overseas and your DH is retired so he can deal with her.
ETA - I feel the same way about just shoot me - had it been me, there would have been no surgery. However, my father has different views on life and death - he wanted the surgery and according to his value system, would have wanted it before his illness, despite the fact that we basically unplugged my mother back in 1991.
For me the hardest part of this journey has been respecting his values and wishes for his life. which, of course, are different from mine.
Higs and support to all 3 of you.
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Post by twystedsystermi1 on Aug 13, 2013 22:11:12 GMT -5
I work in a doctors office. Your mother needs to sign a release listing all people that are allowed medical information. Even if she doesn't have an appointment, take her to the office one day and have her sign the release. We can't even give husband and any info without signing that form.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 13, 2013 22:34:59 GMT -5
I'm going to assume MIL has a primary care physician who is aware of her general health. This sounds suspiciously like dementia, to me. I don't know if she's been diagnosed with dementia, or not, and I don't know if she has other chronic physical ailments. The behavior you highlight that occurred with your husband is indicative of someone who's not going to be able to stay at home, even with a caregiver. If she'd react that way to her son, imagine what she'd do with a caregiver who's not related to her. She needs to be in assisted living, AT LEAST. It may be she will actually require a nursing home placement because she may not be agreeable to taking her medications, or cooperating with her PT regimen. This is going to get worse, hon. I'm really sorry. It's difficult, to say the least, but it's not going to be getting any better. If it were me, I'd bite the bullet now.
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Aug 14, 2013 6:57:13 GMT -5
Bonny, yes I agree. I hope to never put my kids through anything like my grandmother put my mom/aunt through. I would have thought that she loved them too much to do that. Even if no one ever told her that my aunt and uncle were having serious problems, she should have known that 2 years of leaving home every other night would be a strain on a marriage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 9:51:27 GMT -5
Works4me and mmhmm, can you guys move in with us for a while and be our cheerleaders? We'll do the same for you! DH did speak to one of her Drs yesterday who told him that one of the drugs she is taking is a very strong narcotic that has some of the above side effects. I'm sure that it's only one piece of the puzzle though. I did have a laugh with DH last night. We've got two POAs (one for each of us) which allows us financial and written health requests and a Health Disclosure document with both of our names on it for verbal. They all have to be notarized and I thought we would do it at the lawyer's office. MIL piped up and said "I can get it done at the rec center up the street for $5". LOL, part of her is still with it. Yeah, I know it's probably just a matter of time and that we'll be lucky if we can keep her home for another 6 months. When DH gets home we'll be looking into care facilities closer to us. Thanks guys for your support.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 14, 2013 10:04:16 GMT -5
If she's taking a strong narcotic, Bonny, that could explain some of her behavior, as well as the falling. Input from her primary care physician is crucial to helping make the decision as to what's best for her, at this point. I'm so glad your DH was able to talk to him/her! I don't know how long she's been on the drug in question, but getting them off of anything can be a real chore. Many will fight you every step of the way. It's no fun to live with constant pain, and older folks like that just don't like change. Did the doctor have any suggestions? Looking into care facilities close to where you are is a really good plan. She may not want any part of it, and I'd understand, but it might be absolutely necessary. My mother is able to stay with me, but that's just not possible for all families. It's always best (and easiest!) to have your loved one close by. Despite all the horror stories, there are some good facilities out there if you do your homework. Most are expensive, but it sounds like she has the funds.
My heart really goes out to all of you. This kind of thing isn't a cake walk for anybody.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 15:32:04 GMT -5
Hi mmhmm, The falling has been going on for the last 3 years. It's one of the reasons she started with the caregivers in the first place. It's a combination of things from that side of the family not being that coordinated in the first place, a general issue with balance, all the tripping hazards (e.g. throw rugs, dog beds etc), her ADD and the house not being elder friendly. But the extreme change in the level of dementia could be attributable to a drug. About 2.5 months ago she "over-did it" in her garden and the next day her caregiver had to call the ambulance because she was in so much pain. It took 5 people to move her. She's been diagnosed with spinal stenosis but because she has a very low pain threshold and reacts to so many pain drugs, finding an appropriate drug for her is difficult. I will ask DH tonight if the doc had suggestions or a plan to get her off that drug. I believe this is true but it's not always so obvious. Her father did really well in one for a very long time; maybe 10 in the "assisted living", another 5 in the nursing home and then the family had to move him elsewhere. The prettiest aren't necessarily the best and a good one can go downhill. And as far as the money is concerned, she does have LTC which will pay for some. DH was concerned that they may not pay enough. I told him that she should just supplement to get what she needs. That's what it's for. I know she'll have a problem with that because she wants to leave an inheritance to DH. I've told her we have enough and that the best "inheritance" she gave him was to have him become financially self sufficient so he didn't need an inheritance.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 14, 2013 15:50:34 GMT -5
Hi mmhmm, The falling has been going on for the last 3 years. It's one of the reasons she started with the caregivers in the first place. It's a combination of things from that side of the family not being that coordinated in the first place, a general issue with balance, all the tripping hazards (e.g. throw rugs, dog beds etc), her ADD and the house not being elder friendly. But the extreme change in the level of dementia could be attributable to a drug. About 2.5 months ago she "over-did it" in her garden and the next day her caregiver had to call the ambulance because she was in so much pain. It took 5 people to move her. She's been diagnosed with spinal stenosis but because she has a very low pain threshold and reacts to so many pain drugs, finding an appropriate drug for her is difficult. I will ask DH tonight if the doc had suggestions or a plan to get her off that drug. I believe this is true but it's not always so obvious. Her father did really well in one for a very long time; maybe 10 in the "assisted living", another 5 in the nursing home and then the family had to move him elsewhere. The prettiest aren't necessarily the best and a good one can go downhill. And as far as the money is concerned, she does have LTC which will pay for some. DH was concerned that they may not pay enough. I told him that she should just supplement to get what she needs. That's what it's for. I know she'll have a problem with that because she wants to leave an inheritance to DH. I've told her we have enough and that the best "inheritance" she gave him was to have him become financially self sufficient so he didn't need an inheritance. My mother has balance issues, as well as physical reasons for her instability when ambulating, Bonny. It's a real worry, I know. I'm here and on the alert all the time. She has a walker and that helps, as well as having her living area properly equipped. Still, falls can happen to anyone. The elderly are just not as able to recover from the injuries that sometimes result. The reason for having a loved one in a nursing home that's really close by is multi-fold. One of the major considerations, I think, is that family is able to visit often (and unannounced). That enables you to ensure MIL is receiving the care she needs and deserves even if she is a handful, at times. Yes, care does degrade in some environments. Usually, though, in my experience, if you visit and evaluate, ask around, and choose that which seems best to you, it works out to be the right thing for the loved one, as well. Then, frequent visits and open communication serve to maintain a good relationship all the way around.
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