FL cops shoot unarmed 60yo- 'feared for their safety'

[mmhmm]

Aug 19, 2013 4:08:47 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Well, a lawyer licensed to practice law in this state said I wouldn't so ill go with his point of view. I think when you're releasing murderers and pedophiles to prey again on their victims, they won't let me sit there for long. Plus, I've seen people booked and released. I'm not saying I won't be cuffed and taken down, he said I most certainly would be, but I will be released.

A purse-snatcher is hardly the same as a murderer, or a pedophile, zib.  I wouldn't count on going Scott-free if you shoot a fleeing purse-snatcher in the back, and I don't care where you live.  I'm not an attorney, and I've never played one on TV, however.

[swamp]

Aug 19, 2013 4:08:47 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Well, a lawyer licensed to practice law in this state said I wouldn't so ill go with his point of view. I think when you're releasing murderers and pedophiles to prey again on their victims, they won't let me sit there for long. Plus, I've seen people booked and released. I'm not saying I won't be cuffed and taken down, he said I most certainly would be, but I will be released.

If you've been charged with murder, you're considered a murderer too. 

[zibazinski]

For CPL, you have an all day class and part of it is a very lengthy lawyer speech.

[zibazinski]

Ok, well, ill take that chance. Is my choice to do so.

[tallguy]

I'm not an attorney, and I've never played one on TV, however.

But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night though.  Right?     

[tallguy]

Ok, well, ill take that chance. Is my choice to do so.

This is horrible of me, I know, but is anyone else almost HOPING that someone will steal Zib's purse, just to know that there will at some point come a time when there is a very sobering moment of realization at hand?

(I know, I know.  Bad Tallguy!  Bad Tallguy!)

[EVT1]

The realization that the gun was in it

Nah- more likely she will end up in jail after shooting the crazy lady in her yard.  Good luck- hope the trial is televised

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Aug 18, 2013 20:14:33 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I'm covered for 250k and I won't sit in jail at all. I will be booked, then released. I sat through three hours of lawyer-ese. I know.

Keep dreaming....

[mmhmm]

Aug 19, 2013 19:38:47 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Ok, well, ill take that chance. Is my choice to do so.

This is horrible of me, I know, but is anyone else almost HOPING that someone will steal Zib's purse, just to know that there will at some point come a time when there is a very sobering moment of realization at hand?

(I know, I know.  Bad Tallguy!  Bad Tallguy!)

Bad Tallguy!  BAD! 

[mmhmm]

Aug 19, 2013 19:33:06 GMT -5 tallguy said:

I'm not an attorney, and I've never played one on TV, however.

But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night though.  Right?     

The Holiday Inn Express refused my cats entrance.  I, therefore, refused to spend my money at The Holiday Inn Express.  I chose, instead, to spend my money getting a freaking cellphone!

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I love the fact that zib, after sitting through a whopping 3 hours of "legal-ese", as she calls it - is suddenly an expert on law and even debating this with Swamp (now that she's an expert and all).

I'm even more surprised she thinks nothing would happen if she shot someone for stepping foot on her lawn - or grabbing her purse - or walking up to her door to ring the doorbell.

[Sum Dum Gai]

And this to me is the scary part of concealed carry.  Most of them I'm sure are law abiding citizens who aren't secretly hoping they get a chance to play Dirty Harry, but you know there's a few of them out there.  I don't know what the concealed carry class in Florida is like, but the one in Arizona makes it pretty clear that you have to be meeting deadly force to be in the clear to discharge your weapon.  There are some circumstance where you can fire when facing only physical force.  Arizona does allow you to fire in order to stop or prevent certain crimes in progress, even if you aren't in danger, but petty theft and trespassing aren't on that list.  They also make it extremely clear that there's a difference between criminal and civil liability if you use your gun, so even if you don't face criminal charges for using your weapon you can face civil charges, even if you were justified in the firing.  Arizona gun laws are some of the least restrictive in the nation, Florida doesn't have a crime in progress provision for example, so I don't see how you can sit through a concealed carry class and come out with the idea that you can shoot somebody for walking across your lawn, or petty theft.

[billisonboard]

Aug 19, 2013 23:24:55 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

... I don't see how you can sit through a concealed carry class and come out with the idea that you can shoot somebody for walking across your lawn, or petty theft.

notmsnmoney.proboards.com/user/442/recent

[EVT1]

I think it isn't the conceal carry- it is the SYG and other components that is messing people up.

Take the Joe Horn case- he was even talking about the change in the law to the 911 dispatcher before he walked out of his home with a shotgun and murdered two people because they stole some items out of his neighbors house.

Anywhere other than TX he is in jail- and probably would be in jail there too if he had shot some white kids.  The locals covered his ass.

[Deleted]

And then there's the situation where property thief runs into a rural property owner who is just as willing to disregard the law.  All disappearances and murders being solved makes for great TV shows.  Doesn't apply to reality very well.  Morality ?  I'd give someone the chance to lay on the ground and wait for law enforcement.

[zibazinski]

No one just walks in someone else's yard. For just no reason at all. No, I wouldn't shoot someone ringing the doorbell. Way to try to redirect. 

[djAdvocate]

my son lost his kite in the neighbor's field.  the idea that i had good reason to fear for my life retrieving it makes me utterly sick inside. 

when i was a kid, i used to wander across private property on my way to the creek, or school, all the time.  never meant any harm, yet it would seem some would have felt fine about shooting me.

what kind of country is it where you can't make an innocent action without being confronted by some nutter who has appointed themselves judge, jury, and executioner for the day?

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I was going to post something similar, dj. Kids will be kids - cutting across property or going through a gate to retrieve a ball, etc is par for the course - even taking short-cuts through yards from one street to the next.

I'd hate to think that a kid (or adult assisting them in their retrieval) would get shot for stepping foot on someone else's property. Paranoia is running rampant (more so among some trigger-happy gun owners).

I'm not saying all gun-owners - just the ones who think they can shoot anyone who puts a toe over their property line.

We have kids come up and pick lilacs off the bushes around here - no big deal - I'd hate to think of one of them getting wasted over a flower.

[EVT1]

Aug 20, 2013 21:55:56 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

my son lost his kite in the neighbor's field.  the idea that i had good reason to fear for my life retrieving it makes me utterly sick inside. 

when i was a kid, i used to wander across private property on my way to the creek, or school, all the time.  never meant any harm, yet it would seem some would have felt fine about shooting me.

what kind of country is it where you can't make an innocent action without being confronted by some nutter who has appointed themselves judge, jury, and executioner for the day?

Merica!

[zibazinski]

Hooray for America

[Deleted]

Aug 20, 2013 21:55:56 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

my son lost his kite in the neighbor's field.  the idea that i had good reason to fear for my life retrieving it makes me utterly sick inside. 

when i was a kid, i used to wander across private property on my way to the creek, or school, all the time.  never meant any harm, yet it would seem some would have felt fine about shooting me.

what kind of country is it where you can't make an innocent action without being confronted by some nutter who has appointed themselves judge, jury, and executioner for the day?

The type of country where you are allowed to protect yourself ? That nutter might of been a victim or his family a victim of violent crime. Whose house or property was pre-cased by a criminal pretending to be getting a ball or checking the power lines or whatever. When crime is 100% eliminated, I will dispose of my self defense type weapons. (my hypothetical, make believe story was better than yours, so I win. na na, na na, na.)

[djAdvocate]

Aug 21, 2013 7:50:32 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Hooray for America

hooray for the random killing of innocents! 

let freedom rein!!!!

[djAdvocate]

Aug 21, 2013 8:48:14 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Aug 20, 2013 21:55:56 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

my son lost his kite in the neighbor's field.  the idea that i had good reason to fear for my life retrieving it makes me utterly sick inside. 

when i was a kid, i used to wander across private property on my way to the creek, or school, all the time.  never meant any harm, yet it would seem some would have felt fine about shooting me.

what kind of country is it where you can't make an innocent action without being confronted by some nutter who has appointed themselves judge, jury, and executioner for the day?

The type of country where you are allowed to protect yourself ?

from what?  from kids using your property as a shortcut?  from parents retrieving lost kites? 

who will protect me from YOU?

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2013 10:59:36 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 21, 2013 8:48:14 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

The type of country where you are allowed to protect yourself ?

from what?  from kids using your property as a shortcut?  from parents retrieving lost kites? 

who will protect me from YOU?

Your self. Ask for permission before encroaching on what doesn't belong to you. Teach your kids the same. That mutual respect goes along way towards eliminating misunderstandings.

[mmhmm]

How is someone to ask your permission if your mission is to shoot them if they step into your yard?  Seems like I read that was the right thing to do.

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2013 11:23:58 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

How is someone to ask your permission if your mission is to shoot them if they step into your yard?  Seems like I read that was the right thing to do.

I think I'm having a skewed perception of what most see as their yard. I have maybe 30 people who live within a 1 mile radius of my house. The house is near the center of a 110 acre square lot. I know every persons first and last name, the names of their dogs and cats, and where they work etc. The nearest town is about ten miles away. Someone on my property who I don't know gets the chance to wait for the police or run away if that's what they choose. Every encounter will be a first. If I am threatened or charged I would probably shoot. I will not let anyone get too close to me. The sheriffs deputies in this area will tell you to protect yourself, they can't. Too much area to cover for too few officers.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 21, 2013 11:21:05 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Aug 21, 2013 10:59:36 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

from what?  from kids using your property as a shortcut?  from parents retrieving lost kites? 

who will protect me from YOU?

Your self. Ask for permission before encroaching on what doesn't belong to you. Teach your kids the same. That mutual respect goes along way towards eliminating misunderstandings.

how about YOU resolve misunderstandings with something other than your gun?  if you do, i have no problem with you.

[Deleted]

Aug 21, 2013 14:49:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 21, 2013 11:21:05 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Your self. Ask for permission before encroaching on what doesn't belong to you. Teach your kids the same. That mutual respect goes along way towards eliminating misunderstandings.

how about YOU resolve misunderstandings with something other than your gun?  if you do, i have no problem with you.

If you criminally trespass on my posted property you will be dealt with according to the allowances of Arkansas law. Whether you have a declared problem with me or not will mean nothing at the time. I really don't have a whole lot of emotion involved with this subject. I will do what needs to be done with little or no feeling. If this answer makes you unhappy, that's the way the world is, sometimes unhappy, sometimes unfair.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 23, 2013 11:36:33 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Aug 21, 2013 14:49:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

how about YOU resolve misunderstandings with something other than your gun?  if you do, i have no problem with you.

If you criminally trespass on my posted property you will be dealt with according to the allowances of Arkansas law.

why?  i mean, it is entirely up to you how to deal with people on your property.  why gun them down?  because you can?  forgive me for saying so, but that is a sh(*ty reason for doing ANYTHING.

Whether you have a declared problem with me or not will mean nothing at the time. I really don't have a whole lot of emotion involved with this subject.

oh, that is quite clear.  your natural sympathy is totally absent.  horrifying, yet obvious.

I will do what needs to be done with little or no feeling. If this answer makes you unhappy, that's the way the world is, sometimes unhappy, sometimes unfair.

it really does make me unhappy, but not for the reason you think.

i think this world is what we make of it.  if this world is cruel and unfair, then the best place to look to change it is within.  you might start with that "little or no feeling" bit. 

[Deleted]

.

Aug 23, 2013 12:31:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 23, 2013 11:36:33 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

If you criminally trespass on my posted property you will be dealt with according to the allowances of Arkansas law.

why?  i mean, it is entirely up to you how to deal with people on your property.  why gun them down?  because you can?  forgive me for saying so, but that is a sh(*ty reason for doing ANYTHING.

Whether you have a declared problem with me or not will mean nothing at the time. I really don't have a whole lot of emotion involved with this subject.

oh, that is quite clear.  your natural sympathy is totally absent.  horrifying, yet obvious.

I will do what needs to be done with little or no feeling. If this answer makes you unhappy, that's the way the world is, sometimes unhappy, sometimes unfair.

it really does make me unhappy, but not for the reason you think.

i think this world is what we make of it.  if this world is cruel and unfair, then the best place to look to change it is within.  you might start with that "little or no feeling" bit. 

I would never injure someone just because I could. They would have to approach me after being warned off, or threaten with a weapon ( I consider someone twice my size who is approaching and trying to intimidate as having a weapon, their body ). I can't create feeling where their isn't any, sorry. The plus side to that is I probably wouldn't make a situational mistake due to fear, agitation, or anger. There are reasons I live in almost total seclusion in a rural area, and this is one of them. At 57 years old I know exactly who and what I am. All the people with empathy should be happy I'm here.