mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 30, 2013 17:55:08 GMT -5
To the Jewish people, the Muslims, and the Christians, there is but one God. Therefore, they must be worshipping the same one, I'd think. That's the only one there is.
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AGB
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Post by AGB on Jul 30, 2013 18:04:14 GMT -5
To the Jewish people, the Muslims, and the Christians, there is but one God. Therefore, they must be worshipping the same one, I'd think. That's the only one there is. I don't worship allah anymore than a muslim worships the Christian God. They are not the same. |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 30, 2013 18:05:28 GMT -5
Christianity recognizes Jesus as a prophet? Hmmm. That's an interesting take on Christianity. The Bible indicates that "the prophets", which is a more specific vocation than simply "men with the gift of prophecy", ended with John the Baptist, who was actually the last in the line of the Aaronic priesthood. However, Christ himself was a prophet in the sense that he was able to prophecy, and the Bible indicates that some men are gifted with prophecy (presumably even today). Considering Christ claimed to be the son of the Living God, and Islamic doctrine doesn't recognize him as being such, I'm not sure how Islamic theologians reconcile these two facts. They either consider him a lying prophet (i.e. a false prophet), or they dispute some or all of his testimony in the New Testament. |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 30, 2013 18:06:19 GMT -5
To the Jewish people, the Muslims, and the Christians, there is but one God. Therefore, they must be worshipping the same one, I'd think. That's the only one there is. I don't worship allah anymore than a muslim worships the Christian God. They are not the same. I'm pretty sure they are the same dude.... |
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Post by AGB on Jul 30, 2013 18:08:03 GMT -5
I don't worship allah anymore than a muslim worships the Christian God. They are not the same. I'm pretty sure they are the same dude.... Based on...? |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 30, 2013 18:09:19 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure they are the same dude.... Based on...? 12 year of catechism classes and a comparative religion class in college. I don't have a cite. |
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 30, 2013 18:11:07 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure they are the same dude.... Based on...? They're both the God of Abraham. El Shaddai. God is actually defined to us by his Word (scripture), and hence Christians and Muslims worship a different God in that respect. |
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Post by AGB on Jul 30, 2013 18:12:00 GMT -5
12 year of catechism classes and a comparative religion class in college. I don't have a cite. No cite needed, I was just curious about the thoughts behind your opinion. |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 30, 2013 18:15:50 GMT -5
My thoughts are that if there is an all powerful being, the way we worship him is completely cultural. Whether its God, Yahway, Allah, or the Great Creator, he is the reason we are here and it doesn't matter what we call him or how we worship. The ways of worship were created by man as a form of social control.
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Post by AGB on Jul 30, 2013 18:22:27 GMT -5
They're both the God of Abraham. El Shaddai. God is actually defined to us by his Word (scripture), and hence Christians and Muslims worship a different God in that respect. If allah and the Christian God are the same... and both the Bible and the Koran/Haddiths are divinely inspired by the same dude... shouldn't the ideologies be a wee bit closer than they are? |
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 30, 2013 18:24:34 GMT -5
They're both the God of Abraham. El Shaddai. God is actually defined to us by his Word (scripture), and hence Christians and Muslims worship a different God in that respect. If allah and the Christian God are the same... and both the Bible and the Koran/Haddiths are divinely inspired by the same dude... shouldn't the ideologies be a wee bit closer than they are? not when you figure in that all of those books are man's interpretation of God's word. kind of like the game "telephone" there is quite a bit lost in translation. |
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Post by AGB on Jul 30, 2013 18:39:59 GMT -5
If allah and the Christian God are the same... and both the Bible and the Koran/Haddiths are divinely inspired by the same dude... shouldn't the ideologies be a wee bit closer than they are? not when you figure in that all of those books are man's interpretation of God's word. kind of like the game "telephone" there is quite a bit lost in translation. And I can follow the logic, but I have trouble with where this leads me... that an all powerful God is not capable of keeping his message straight. There are major differences, entirely separate paths, it's not like they disagree whether it was the virgin Mary or the virgin Martha. |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 30, 2013 18:43:06 GMT -5
The manner of worship and the different interpretations of the word of God is the sociological construct of religion. I find it fascinating.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 30, 2013 18:44:45 GMT -5
let me start by saying I don't believe in that all powerful God. whether that shades how you take my comments or not, I can't say.
I don't know that I'd say he can't keep his message straight, but I would argue that all those different men that wrote the books just heard different things.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 30, 2013 18:49:33 GMT -5
let me start by saying I don't believe in that all powerful God. whether that shades how you take my comments or not, I can't say. I don't know that I'd say he can't keep his message straight, but I would argue that all those different men that wrote the books just heard different things. And what they heard I'd completely dependent on their personal experiences and motivation for hearing the message. |
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Post by AGB on Jul 30, 2013 18:53:01 GMT -5
let me start by saying I don't believe in that all powerful God. whether that shades how you take my comments or not, I can't say. I don't know that I'd say he can't keep his message straight, but I would argue that all those different men that wrote the books just heard different things. Nope, no shading, your opinion differs, that doesn't make it any less valid. I appreciate your thoughts, as well swamp's. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2013 18:53:23 GMT -5
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2013 18:54:18 GMT -5
They're both the God of Abraham. El Shaddai. God is actually defined to us by his Word (scripture), and hence Christians and Muslims worship a different God in that respect. If allah and the Christian God are the same... and both the Bible and the Koran/Haddiths are divinely inspired by the same dude... shouldn't the ideologies be a wee bit closer than they are? the core beliefs are pretty similar. but it breaks down by prophet. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2013 18:55:27 GMT -5
They're both the God of Abraham. El Shaddai. God is actually defined to us by his Word (scripture), and hence Christians and Muslims worship a different God in that respect. i am not sure that we are talking about "God In Scripture", tho. are you? i think we are talking about "the one God". |
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 30, 2013 18:56:29 GMT -5
Core beliefs in the major religions:
be nice
respect god.
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 30, 2013 18:58:29 GMT -5
Core beliefs in the major religions: be nice respect god.  there's a lot to be said for the Golden Rule.  |
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2013 19:07:41 GMT -5
Core beliefs in the major religions: be nice respect god. there's a lot to be said for the Golden Rule. that is a trans-religious principle. it extends to atheists and non-western religions as well. it is the most widely accepted philosophical principle out there, if memory serves. |
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Post by AGB on Jul 30, 2013 19:09:34 GMT -5
From your link... "But Allah is not truly personal, knowable, or approachable. The Qur’an depicts him more judgmental than gracious. He exists as a singular unity who has no “partners.” In fact, to call Jesus the Son of God is to commit the unpardonable sin, or shirk. Of the 99 names for God in the Qur’an, Father is not one of them. In Islam, it is considered blasphemous to “presume” that one can know God or claim any sort of close, personal fellowship with Allah. He reveals his will, not himself. ... Allah and Yahweh are depicted as supreme beings who know everything and everyone. But … only the God of the Bible is truly personal and knowable." "The Qur’an teaches that Allah loves those he chooses to love and hates those he chooses to hate. ... Yahweh, the God of the Bible, on the other hand, loves all people (John 3:16). His love is not a response to our goodness, but in spite of our lack of goodness.' ... "The Qur’an teaches that Allah did not, would not, and will not die for you, nor would he send anyone to die for you. In fact, the Qur’an teaches that Jesus did not die on the cross, but was taken up into heaven, and Judas, or someone made to look like Jesus, was crucified in His place. Further, the Qur’an teaches that there is no need for Allah to provide a sacrifice for sin because ignorance of Islam, not sin, is man’s problem. (The possible exceptions are apostasy from Islam and refusal to convert to Islam.) ... Yahweh, the God of the Bible, on the other hand, loves us so much He sent His Son to die for us. ... A key difference between Islam and Christianity is that in Islam, Allah sends his followers to die for him, whereas in Christianity God sent His Son to die for us." ... "So, are Allah and Yahweh just two different names for the same God, as President Bush suggested in his television interview? Absolutely not" I don't know if your link was meant as a scholarly study, but not only doesn't it support that they're the same dude, but it clearly claims they are not.  |
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 30, 2013 19:10:27 GMT -5
They're both the God of Abraham. El Shaddai. God is actually defined to us by his Word (scripture), and hence Christians and Muslims worship a different God in that respect. If allah and the Christian God are the same... and both the Bible and the Koran/Haddiths are divinely inspired by the same dude... shouldn't the ideologies be a wee bit closer than they are? They're similar in a great many respects. Not all respects. The respects in which they differ are nevertheless of great importance. It might be a good topic to address in the Religion forum at some point. I have no interest in getting deep into it in this thread. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2013 19:11:22 GMT -5
From your link... i think we are to avoid quoting scripture, here. just fyi.I don't know if your link was meant as a scholarly study, but not only doesn't it support that they're the same dude, but it clearly claims they are not. you're cherry picking. but whatever. i have no horse in this race. i don't believe in a wrathful God, which puts me way off axis for both of these religions, in a doctrinal sense. |
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2013 19:12:06 GMT -5
If allah and the Christian God are the same... and both the Bible and the Koran/Haddiths are divinely inspired by the same dude... shouldn't the ideologies be a wee bit closer than they are? They're similar in a great many respects. Not all respects. The respects in which they differ are nevertheless of great importance. It might be a good topic to address in the Religion forum at some point. I have no interest in getting deep into it in this thread. i am with you on that. but do you think you have the breath to answer my question? |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 30, 2013 19:13:38 GMT -5
They're similar in a great many respects. Not all respects. The respects in which they differ are nevertheless of great importance. It might be a good topic to address in the Religion forum at some point. I have no interest in getting deep into it in this thread. i am with you on that. but do you think you have the breath to answer my question? I don't know. That would require me to conjecture about another poster's thoughts, and I've been scolded elsewhere for doing that.  |
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2013 19:14:58 GMT -5
i am with you on that. but do you think you have the breath to answer my question? I don't know. That would require me to conjecture about another poster's thoughts, and I've been scolded elsewhere for doing that. really? i kinda figured it was purely personal, and for academic purposes. but let me phrase it differently: in the absence of scripture, do you think that we Christians pray to the same God as Muslims and Jews? |
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 30, 2013 19:18:26 GMT -5
there's a lot to be said for the Golden Rule. that is a trans-religious principle. it extends to atheists and non-western religions as well. it is the most widely accepted philosophical principle out there, if memory serves. exactly. as I said, I don't believe in that all-powerful God. that doesn't mean I live my life without general guidelines on how to conduct myself. |
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Post by AGB on Jul 30, 2013 19:18:55 GMT -5
From your link... i think we are to avoid quoting scripture, here. just fyi.I don't know if your link was meant as a scholarly study, but not only doesn't it support that they're the same dude, but it clearly claims they are not. you're cherry picking. but whatever. i have no horse in this race. i don't believe in a wrathful God, which puts me way off axis for both of these religions, in a doctrinal sense. It was the link you provided, I honestly don't see what I missed in it that would make it cherry picking. But I don't wish to cause any more trouble than I already have, so I thank you for your thoughts and your time. |
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