Fox Reporter Shows Massive Anti-Islamic Bias

[Virgil Showlion]

they didn't question what this guy wrote, but who he is. it is ad-hominem, and it is logically invalid

...says the guy who categorically refuses to read articles that are even aggregated by Breitbart.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 12:48:47 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

What did FOX "get wrong", exactly?

i could turn this around and ask what they got RIGHT.  but i have learned that this never works well with you.  so here, let me tell you:

they attacked this guy for his religion, right from the get-go.  he was being interviewed about HIS BOOK.  what HIS RELIGION has to do with this book is probably IRRELEVANT.  but furthermore, questioning someone's veracity on the basis of their religion is UNAMERICAN, imo.

what is yours?

edit: i should add that they get stuff wrong all the time.  it is not just FOX either.  most of the MSM does it.  but i think that FOX is sort of an acknowledged expert on getting it wrong at this point- by most people anyway.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 12:51:55 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

they didn't question what this guy wrote, but who he is. it is ad-hominem, and it is logically invalid

...says the guy who categorically refuses to read articles that are even aggregated by Breitbart.

Breitbart is dead, this thread is not about me, and you just engaged in ad-hominem, yourself, Mr. Holier-Than-Thou.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 30, 2013 12:50:16 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 29, 2013 22:20:54 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

It was a pointed question in an interview.

You'd swear this thread was about Christians rioting in the streets, demanding Dr. Aslan's head on a pike.

you have to admit, Virgil, attempting to discredit someone STRICTLY on the basis of their religion is a pretty low blow. 

i would hope that you, above most people, would appreciate that FACT.

I don't see this as an attempt to discredit Dr. Aslan, for reasons given in other posts.

what HIS RELIGION has to do with this book is probably IRRELEVANT.

She asks one question and one follow-up that allow him to convince a skeptical audience that "probably" is "indeed".

The question is reasonable. It in no way constitutes an "attempt to discredit him".

[djAdvocate]

Jul 29, 2013 22:30:43 GMT -5 oped said:

Yes, what does the bible have to do with a thread on books about religion? 

correction- a Book about Christianity. 

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 12:55:41 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jul 30, 2013 12:50:16 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

you have to admit, Virgil, attempting to discredit someone STRICTLY on the basis of their religion is a pretty low blow. 

i would hope that you, above most people, would appreciate that FACT.

I don't see this as an attempt to discredit Dr. Aslan, for reasons given in other posts.

sorry, i must have missed that.  how is ANY of the discussion either BY FOX or BY OTHERS HERE, NOT an attempt to discredit Dr. Aslan?

please cite examples, because the most notable ones i am coming up with (ie the repeated accusation that he is a fraud) DIRECTLY contradict your assertion.

what about Dr. Aslan DISQUALIFIES HIM to speak on the subject of his book?

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 8:06:26 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 29, 2013 21:52:09 GMT -5 Opti said:

"I did literally five seconds of research and discovered the guy is a fraud."


Yes, obviously it was about 5 seconds worth.



In my seconds of Internet research I found the guy's webpage.
rezaaslan.com/about/

Aslan has degrees in Religions from Santa Clara University, Harvard University, and the University of California, Santa Barbara, as well as a Master of Fine Arts from the University of Iowa, where he was named the Truman Capote Fellow in Fiction. An Adjunct Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, he is also a member of the Los Angeles Institute for the Humanities and the Pacific Council on International Policy. He serves on the board of directors of the Ploughshares Fund, which gives grants for peace and security issues; Narrative Four, which connects people through the exchange of stories; PEN USA, which champions the rights of writers under siege around the world; and the Levantine Cultural Center, which builds bridges between Americans and the Arab/Muslim world through the arts.

Aslan's first book is the International Bestseller, No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam, which has been translated into thirteen languages, and named one of the 100 most important books of the last decade. He is also the author of How to Win a Cosmic War (published in paperback as Beyond Fundamentalism: Confronting Religious Extremism in a Globalized Age), as well as editor of two volumes: Tablet and Pen: Literary Landscapes from the Modern Middle East, and Muslims and Jews in America: Commonalties, Contentions, and Complexities.

I didn't check any other sources, but I'll trust Cereb and her Wiki reference.

I don't understand- DOES THE AUTHOR HAVE A PhD IN HISTORY

other than you, who claimed he did?

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2013 17:37:09 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Why would a scholar of religion who happens to be Muslim not write a book about Jesus?  Islam recognizes Jesus as a prophet, just as does Christianity.  Seems logical, to me.


*That said, I'm going to move this to Current Events.  It has nothing to do with politics, or the markets.

mmhmm, P&M Moderator

Christianity recognizes Jesus as a prophet? Hmmm. That's an interesting take on Christianity.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 12:55:41 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jul 30, 2013 12:50:16 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

you have to admit, Virgil, attempting to discredit someone STRICTLY on the basis of their religion is a pretty low blow. 

i would hope that you, above most people, would appreciate that FACT.

I don't see this as an attempt to discredit Dr. Aslan, for reasons given in other posts.

what HIS RELIGION has to do with this book is probably IRRELEVANT.

She asks one question and one follow-up that allow him to convince a skeptical audience that "probably" is "indeed".

The question is reasonable. It in no way constitutes an "attempt to discredit him".

you seem to think the underlying assumption of the question is both innocent and valid.  i don't.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 30, 2013 12:59:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 30, 2013 12:55:41 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I don't see this as an attempt to discredit Dr. Aslan, for reasons given in other posts.

sorry, i must have missed that.  how is ANY of the discussion either BY FOX or BY OTHERS HERE, NOT an attempt to discredit Dr. Aslan?

please cite examples, because the most notable ones i am coming up with (ie the repeated accusation that he is a fraud) DIRECTLY contradict your assertion.

what about Dr. Aslan DISQUALIFIES HIM to speak on the subject of his book?

Paul's claim is that he lied about his credentials. Which is true depending on how strictly you interpret some of Dr. Aslan's claims.

Shooby and Angel were arguing about the relevance of credentials. Go ask them.

Everyone else, myself included, have said nothing besides pointing out that the question is reasonable, fair, and relevant to the audience. "Attempt to discredit him" has always, for the purposes of our discussion, pertained to Ms. Green "attempting to discredit" Dr. Aslan, which simply is not the case.

you seem to think the underlying assumption of the question is both innocent and valid. i don't.

Good for you.

Enjoy not watching those news stations you stopped watching because they only report crap and fluff that dare not offend anybody, and that rather than remedy the situation, spin off blogs that accuse journalists who do ask offensive questions of "Massive Anti-Islamic Bias".

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 30, 2013 12:55:27 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 30, 2013 12:51:55 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

...says the guy who categorically refuses to read articles that are even aggregated by Breitbart.

Breitbart is dead, this thread is not about me, and you just engaged in ad-hominem, yourself, Mr. Holier-Than-Thou.

Is pointing out hypocrisy an ad-hominem?

By gum, I guess it is.

[mmhmm]

Jul 30, 2013 13:04:31 GMT -5 @davebo said:

Jul 29, 2013 17:37:09 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Why would a scholar of religion who happens to be Muslim not write a book about Jesus?  Islam recognizes Jesus as a prophet, just as does Christianity.  Seems logical, to me.


*That said, I'm going to move this to Current Events.  It has nothing to do with politics, or the markets.

mmhmm, P&M Moderator

Christianity recognizes Jesus as a prophet? Hmmm. That's an interesting take on Christianity.

Is it?  Hmmm:

Jesus The Prophet


and


Prophet, Priest, King

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 13:06:47 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jul 30, 2013 12:59:31 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

sorry, i must have missed that.  how is ANY of the discussion either BY FOX or BY OTHERS HERE, NOT an attempt to discredit Dr. Aslan?

please cite examples, because the most notable ones i am coming up with (ie the repeated accusation that he is a fraud) DIRECTLY contradict your assertion.

what about Dr. Aslan DISQUALIFIES HIM to speak on the subject of his book?

Paul's claim is that he lied about his credentials. Which is true depending on how strictly you interpret some of Dr. Aslan's claims..

he didn't lie.  he spun the question, just like FOX does ALL OF THE TIME.  it was no more of a lie than the question was. 

there is another problem with the accusation, and that is "what i do for a living" has a broader meaning than "what my title and profession is".  for example, my wife often says that chasing around my son is "what she does for a living".  i think if you were even slightly generous with the reply, you could allow for that meaning.  i find the lack of generosity rather disturbing from you, but not so much from Paul.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 13:12:51 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jul 30, 2013 12:55:27 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Breitbart is dead, this thread is not about me, and you just engaged in ad-hominem, yourself, Mr. Holier-Than-Thou.

Is pointing out hypocrisy an ad-hominem?

i know that the dictionary is not very important to you, but this term does have a pretty strict definition.  for a guy who is constantly using latin on this board, i would assume you know it.  it means TO THE MAN, right?  you are asserting that my bias against Breitbart has a bearing on my ability to speak with authority on the subject of this thread.  and yes, indeed, it IS an ad hominem.

if you wish to challenge my assertions, go for it.
if you wish to challenge my logic- have at it.
that is all fair game.

but leave your judgements of me in that dark place where you store the rest of your sins.  they have no place on this board.

tyia.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 13:06:47 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

you seem to think the underlying assumption of the question is both innocent and valid. i don't.

Good for you.

Enjoy not watching those news stations you stopped watching because they only report crap and fluff that dare not offend anybody,

why?  i happen to enjoy watching FOX.  they are right up there with the Comedy Channel, but without the sense of irony.

 and that rather than remedy the situation, spin off blogs that accuse journalists who do ask offensive questions of "Massive Anti-Islamic Bias".

i have to chuckle at anyone that (screechingly and boldly) defends FOX.  that is about as serious as i am about this topic.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 30, 2013 13:15:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 30, 2013 13:06:47 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Paul's claim is that he lied about his credentials. Which is true depending on how strictly you interpret some of Dr. Aslan's claims..

he didn't lie.  he spun the question, just like FOX does ALL OF THE TIME.  it was no more of a lie than the question was. 

there is another problem with the accusation, and that is "what i do for a living" has a broader meaning than "what my title and profession is".  for example, my wife often says that chasing around my son is "what she does for a living".  i think if you were even slightly generous with the reply, you could allow for that meaning.  i find the lack of generosity rather disturbing from you, but not so much from Paul.

I told Paul "A Ph.D. in sociology is a relevant degree. If he studied religions during that time, I don't see that calling himself a religious scholar is disingenuous."

Maybe that lacks generosity. I don't know. I suppose I could've thrown in a "How dare thee, Paul..." for good measure.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 13:06:47 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Everyone else, myself included, have said nothing besides pointing out that the question is reasonable, fair, and relevant to the audience. .

questioning a man's qualifications on the basis of religion is a good example of unfair and irrelevant.  but i will admit freely that it is probably totally fair and relevant TO THE AUDIENCE (or to most of them, anyway). 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 30, 2013 13:04:31 GMT -5 @davebo said:

Jul 29, 2013 17:37:09 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Why would a scholar of religion who happens to be Muslim not write a book about Jesus?  Islam recognizes Jesus as a prophet, just as does Christianity.  Seems logical, to me.


*That said, I'm going to move this to Current Events.  It has nothing to do with politics, or the markets.

mmhmm, P&M Moderator

Christianity recognizes Jesus as a prophet? Hmmm. That's an interesting take on Christianity.

Yeah, um I am a CHRISTian, and I'm pretty sure we believe that the CHRIST in CHRISTIANITY is GOD.  And I have no problem with anyone who cares to take up the task writing a book on Jesus Christ.  They can claim whatever they wish to claim.  Every so often someone names the most recongized name in the world to sell something- an album, a book, or what have you.  Clearly there's a lot of interest still, after all these years, in Jesus Christ.  I do have a problem with liars, though.  And this author seems allergic to the truth- especially the truth about himself.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 30, 2013 13:23:32 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 30, 2013 13:06:47 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Good for you.

Enjoy not watching those news stations you stopped watching because they only report crap and fluff that dare not offend anybody,

why?  i happen to enjoy watching FOX.  they are right up there with the Comedy Channel, but without the sense of irony.

 and that rather than remedy the situation, spin off blogs that accuse journalists who do ask offensive questions of "Massive Anti-Islamic Bias".

i have to chuckle at anyone that (screechingly and boldly) defends FOX.  that is about as serious as i am about this topic.

I'm defending the interview (specifically, the questions in the interview) described in the OP. If you see it as a knee-slapping good time, I envy your broad sense of humour.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 13:24:50 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jul 30, 2013 13:15:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

he didn't lie.  he spun the question, just like FOX does ALL OF THE TIME.  it was no more of a lie than the question was. 

there is another problem with the accusation, and that is "what i do for a living" has a broader meaning than "what my title and profession is".  for example, my wife often says that chasing around my son is "what she does for a living".  i think if you were even slightly generous with the reply, you could allow for that meaning.  i find the lack of generosity rather disturbing from you, but not so much from Paul.

I told Paul "A Ph.D. in sociology is a relevant degree. If he studied religions during that time, I don't see that calling himself a religious scholar is disingenuous."

he has a Masters of Theology.  from Harvard, no less.  ignoring that fact is disingenuous.

Maybe that lacks generosity. I don't know. I suppose I could've thrown in a "How dare thee, Paul..." for good measure.

whatever.  this is not about Paul.  it is about the accusation, which is wildly false.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 13:26:53 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jul 30, 2013 13:23:32 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i have to chuckle at anyone that (screechingly and boldly) defends FOX.  that is about as serious as i am about this topic.

I'm defending the interview (specifically, the questions in the interview) described in the OP. If you see it as a knee-slapping good time, I envy your broad sense of humour.

in this case, i do indeed find it hilarious.  but i am not interested in your envy.  save it for someone who wants it. 

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 13:26:39 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 30, 2013 13:04:31 GMT -5 @davebo said:

Christianity recognizes Jesus as a prophet? Hmmm. That's an interesting take on Christianity.

Yeah, um I am a CHRISTian, and I'm pretty sure we believe that the CHRIST in CHRISTIANITY is GOD.  And I have no problem with anyone who cares to take up the task writing a book on Jesus Christ.  They can claim whatever they wish to claim.  Every so often someone names the most recongized name in the world to sell something- an album, a book, or what have you.  Clearly there's a lot of interest still, after all these years, in Jesus Christ.  I do have a problem with liars, though.  And this author seems allergic to the truth- especially the truth about himself.

that assertion is about as bold as it is unjustified, imo.  but i am getting bored with repeating it.  have a nice day.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 30, 2013 13:29:33 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 30, 2013 13:24:50 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I told Paul "A Ph.D. in sociology is a relevant degree. If he studied religions during that time, I don't see that calling himself a religious scholar is disingenuous."

he has a Masters of Theology.  from Harvard, no less.  ignoring that fact is disingenuous.

Maybe that lacks generosity. I don't know. I suppose I could've thrown in a "How dare thee, Paul..." for good measure.

whatever.  this is not about Paul.  it is about the accusation, which is wildly false.

I don't know what it's about any more. If the 'accusation' is "Fox Reporter Shows Massive Anti-Islamic Bias", then we agree.

I didn't ignore a Master's of Theology degree. Dr. Aslan's litany of degrees was brought up long after I made the comment.

[Deleted]

*Patience, that's enough! - mmhmm, Administrator

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 13:34:17 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jul 30, 2013 13:29:33 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

whatever.  this is not about Paul.  it is about the accusation, which is wildly false.

I don't know what it's about any more. If the 'accusation' is "Fox Reporter Shows Massive Anti-Islamic Bias", then we agree.

I didn't ignore a Master's of Theology degree. Dr. Aslan's litany of degrees was brought up long after I made the comment.

given this response, i don't know either.  back to the other board.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 30, 2013 13:15:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 30, 2013 13:06:47 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Paul's claim is that he lied about his credentials. Which is true depending on how strictly you interpret some of Dr. Aslan's claims..

he didn't lie.  he spun the question, just like FOX does ALL OF THE TIME.  it was no more of a lie than the question was. 

there is another problem with the accusation, and that is "what i do for a living" has a broader meaning than "what my title and profession is".  for example, my wife often says that chasing around my son is "what she does for a living".  i think if you were even slightly generous with the reply, you could allow for that meaning.  i find the lack of generosity rather disturbing from you, but not so much from Paul.

dj, honestly- what the hell are you talking about?  How is the question a lie?  That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard- and I've read a LOT of your posts. 

Here- from the interview- fully and accurately quoted:

I am a scholar of religions with four degrees including one in the New Testament . . . I am an expert with a Ph.D. in the history of religions . . . I am a professor of religions, including the New Testament–that’s what I do for a living, actually . . . To be clear, I want to emphasize one more time, I am a historian, I am a Ph.D. in the history of religions.

He has four degrees, none of which are in history- of anything. He is not a professor of religions, nor is he a professor of the New Testament, and it is not what he does for a living.  Twice he repeats the lie that he is a "Ph.D. in the history of reglions".  He is not.  He has attained no such credential, and he is not a professor of religion or of the New Testament.  

He is an associate professor in the Creative Writing department at UC Riverside.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 30, 2013 13:40:20 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 30, 2013 13:15:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

dj, honestly- what the hell are you talking about?  How is the question a lie?  That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard- and I've read a LOT of your posts.

try reading some of your own errors sometime.

Here- from the interview- fully and accurately quoted:

I am a scholar of religions with four degrees including one in the New Testament . . . I am an expert with a Ph.D. in the history of religions . . . I am a professor of religions, including the New Testament–that’s what I do for a living, actually . . . To be clear, I want to emphasize one more time, I am a historian, I am a Ph.D. in the history of religions.

was this posted in the thread somewhere?  if so, i must have missed it.

He has four degrees, none of which are in history- of anything. He is not a professor of religions, nor is he a professor of the New Testament, and it is not what he does for a living.  Twice he repeats the lie that he is a "Ph.D. in the history of reglions".  He is not.  He has attained no such credential, and he is not a professor of religion or of the New Testament. 

i will look into this later.  thanks for bringing it to my attention.

He is an associate professor in the Creative Writing department at UC Riverside.

i am aware of his vocation, Paul.  however, as i stated before, what a person says they "do for a living" doesn't necessarily agree with their job title. 

[Deleted]

Jul 30, 2013 13:14:36 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Jul 30, 2013 13:04:31 GMT -5 @davebo said:

Christianity recognizes Jesus as a prophet? Hmmm. That's an interesting take on Christianity.

Is it?  Hmmm:

Jesus The Prophet


and


Prophet, Priest, King

Step 1; search google for 'Jesus prophet'

Step 2: post as evidence

[mmhmm]

Is it there, or is it not, davebo?  I do believe it is. 

[AGB]

Jul 29, 2013 21:01:09 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Jul 29, 2013 18:04:51 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Then they shouldn't even comments about the Muslim religion if they know nothing about it.  Yet many citizens in Tennessee (especially Mufreesboro) are up in arms about Muslims in the state.  I bet 99% of those ready to run Muslims out of the state don't know Christ and Christians are referenced in the Quran.

Or that they worship the same God.    Sad thing is I bet Muslims know a hell of a lot more about Christianity than Christians know about Islam.

Muslims have a better view of Jesus than the Jews do.

Who worships the same God?