Black Man Who Murdered White Girls In Rampage Says He...

[Tennesseer]

Jul 16, 2013 22:44:37 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 16, 2013 16:09:41 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Maybe they were carrying and maybe they weren't. Fact is, they're cowards which is why they roam in gangs. Who wants to be first? 6-10 rounds so someone is going to be first. I may not be able to get them all but I will get some and that's what counts to me.

Your f***ing A right.  In a mob attack, I'm going to be prepared to draw, aim at the center of mass of the poor unfortunate soul who happens to be the biggest target, and I'm going to drop him, then the next one, and the next one, and the next one, and I'm going to keep picking them off until my 5 hollow point .38 rounds have been expended from my revolver, and then I'm going to reload and keep shooting until I see assholes and elbows moving very quickly in the other direction.  And they will be.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 16, 2013 22:44:37 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 16, 2013 16:09:41 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Maybe they were carrying and maybe they weren't. Fact is, they're cowards which is why they roam in gangs. Who wants to be first? 6-10 rounds so someone is going to be first. I may not be able to get them all but I will get some and that's what counts to me.

Your f***ing A right.  In a mob attack, I'm going to be prepared to draw, aim at the center of mass of the poor unfortunate soul who happens to be the biggest target, and I'm going to drop him, then the next one, and the next one, and the next one, and I'm going to keep picking them off until my 5 hollow point .38 rounds have been expended from my revolver, and then I'm going to reload and keep shooting until I see assholes and elbows moving very quickly in the other direction.  And they will be.

You do realize that if you're a civilian in an actual life-and-death confrontation, your heart rate spikes, your higher brain functions shut down, you lose bladder control, and you react purely by fight-or-flight response. Unless you've somehow obtained combat experience, you're statistically more likely to make it though the encounter screaming 'eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee' and urinating over yourself than you are aiming and reloading a revolver.

I hate to be bearer of bad news, but there it is.

[Angel!]

Why are you ignoring what Zimmerman did when telling then story? Why are you ignoring the fact that he was following  and intimidating without bothering to identify himself?  And as far as not waiting to get hit before striking first when you have reason to fear, isn't that what martin did? He hit first when feeling threatened, just as you suggested. Or does that only apply when you are carrying a weapon so you can kill them and they can't tell their side of the story?

[mmhmm]

There's a whole thread about the Zimmerman/Martin issue.  Do we have to reiterate it here?  I'm pretty sure it's all been said and the overweight female has sung.

As far as a stand-off between one individual and an angry mob, I didn't buy Rambo when Stallone tried to sell him, and I'm not buying Rambo now.  The picture it creates is, quite honestly, laughable.

[EVT1]

It might even be fortunate he didn't have a gun- good chance it could have been stolen or worse- used to shoot him with.

That's the funny thing about guns- the people that are going to kill you usually have one.  They shoot you with it- they don't beat you to death.  Might be smart to not have one on you they can grab. 

[zibazinski]

True enough. Zimmerman was lucky it didn't get used on him. If I see a gang of people coming at me, I'm shooting way before they get to me. Perhaps showing it will get them to back off. Of they're so high on drugs or adrenalin, well, the world is going to be safer by a few less thugs even if I've wet my pants.

[zibazinski]

But this crap starts in school. A gang of girls or boys corners one lone person and beats them up. It's never a fair one on one fight because they're cowards.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 16, 2013 23:02:45 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jul 16, 2013 22:44:37 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Your f***ing A right.  In a mob attack, I'm going to be prepared to draw, aim at the center of mass of the poor unfortunate soul who happens to be the biggest target, and I'm going to drop him, then the next one, and the next one, and the next one, and I'm going to keep picking them off until my 5 hollow point .38 rounds have been expended from my revolver, and then I'm going to reload and keep shooting until I see assholes and elbows moving very quickly in the other direction.  And they will be.

You do realize that if you're a civilian in an actual life-and-death confrontation, your heart rate spikes, your higher brain functions shut down, you lose bladder control, and you react purely by fight-or-flight response. Unless you've somehow obtained combat experience, you're statistically more likely to make it though the encounter screaming 'eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee' and urinating over yourself than you are aiming and reloading a revolver.

I hate to be bearer of bad news, but there it is.

I am not above pissing my pants- or worse, screaming, scratching, biting, or reaching right down some dude's pants gripping his package squeezing with all my might and trying to rip it off. I'll fight dirty like nobody's business- there's nothing like the shock and surprise of a victim responding in ways the attacker doesn't anticipate.  However, that's for when I'm out of ammo and cannot reload.  

The fact is, I agree with you completely- and I know these things, and that is why I train.  I don't just shoot paper targets.  I am taking martial arts, and once a quarter my wife and I both take a close quarters combat class.  I'm not Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan, but most of getting through a situation is 1. Staying absolutely calm; and 2. Resorting to training you've had.  First week in August, I'm taking my third, rigorous, dynamic tactical shooting course that ends with an 8 hour long competition.  I'll buy the video this year and post it.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 17, 2013 0:05:05 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

It might even be fortunate he didn't have a gun- good chance it could have been stolen or worse- used to shoot him with.

That's the funny thing about guns- the people that are going to kill you usually have one.  They shoot you with it- they don't beat you to death.  Might be smart to not have one on you they can grab. 

Well, it's nice to see you finally come around to admitting that Zimmerman's mindset of fear was reasonable.    Good job, sport.  Took you long enough.

[Angel!]

Jul 17, 2013 12:09:02 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 17, 2013 0:05:05 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

It might even be fortunate he didn't have a gun- good chance it could have been stolen or worse- used to shoot him with.

That's the funny thing about guns- the people that are going to kill you usually have one.  They shoot you with it- they don't beat you to death.  Might be smart to not have one on you they can grab. 

Well, it's nice to see you finally come around to admitting that Zimmerman's mindset of fear was reasonable.    Good job, sport.  Took you long enough.

The fear is reasonable.  All the dumbass shit he did that led him into a situation where he was afraid is where I have the problem. 

[billisonboard]

Jul 17, 2013 12:07:54 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

... most of getting through a situation is 1. Staying absolutely calm; and 2. Resorting to training you've had. ...

When his advancing army stormed into a small town, the general called his scouts before him. "Where are the citizens of this village?" he demanded.

"They have all fled in fear," the scouts replied.

"Is there no one left to pay tribute?" the general shouted.

"No one but the priest. He remains in the temple."

Quickly the general marched to the temple, burst through the doors and demanded to see the priest. After a search, the priest was found reading quietly in his study. The general, angry that the cleric refused to greet him as a conqueror, shouted, "Don’t you know that you are looking at one who can run you through without batting an eye?"

"Don’t you know," the priest replied, "that you are looking at one who can be run through without batting an eye?"

For a moment, the soldier stared at disbelief at the priest. Then, slowly, a smile danced on his lips. He bowed low and left the temple.

Yes, you must stay calm.  Training is important also.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 15, 2013 22:05:05 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

...learned to hate white people from his college professors..

i learned to hate bigots from my college professors.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 17, 2013 12:07:54 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 16, 2013 23:02:45 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

You do realize that if you're a civilian in an actual life-and-death confrontation, your heart rate spikes, your higher brain functions shut down, you lose bladder control, and you react purely by fight-or-flight response. Unless you've somehow obtained combat experience, you're statistically more likely to make it though the encounter screaming 'eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee' and urinating over yourself than you are aiming and reloading a revolver.

I hate to be bearer of bad news, but there it is.

I am not above pissing my pants- or worse, screaming, scratching, biting, or reaching right down some dude's pants gripping his package squeezing with all my might and trying to rip it off. I'll fight dirty like nobody's business- there's nothing like the shock and surprise of a victim responding in ways the attacker doesn't anticipate.  However, that's for when I'm out of ammo and cannot reload.  

The fact is, I agree with you completely- and I know these things, and that is why I train.  I don't just shoot paper targets.  I am taking martial arts, and once a quarter my wife and I both take a close quarters combat class.  I'm not Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan, but most of getting through a situation is 1. Staying absolutely calm; and 2. Resorting to training you've had.  First week in August, I'm taking my third, rigorous, dynamic tactical shooting course that ends with an 8 hour long competition.  I'll buy the video this year and post it.

That could help.

The fact remains that even veteran police officers often succumb to fight-or-flight in a showdown. Once your heart rate spikes, you're reacting on instinct and conditioning. Your faculties for reason and analysis are heavily diminished. Time dilates. Short term memory is shut down, and hence many police officers won't have any memory of shooting a suspect.

It's possible to overcome, but it does require considerable training and mental conditioning. And even soldiers having undertaken rigorous training will sometimes lock up or panic during their first real combat experience, or come back shell-shocked.

Personally I'd worry that the same conditioning that allows a man to fire bullets into approaching attackers would also allow him to fire bullets into fleeing attackers, and that in the heat of the moment, with his higher reasoning impaired, he might not care about the distinction between the two.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 17, 2013 14:26:17 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jul 17, 2013 12:07:54 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I am not above pissing my pants- or worse, screaming, scratching, biting, or reaching right down some dude's pants gripping his package squeezing with all my might and trying to rip it off. I'll fight dirty like nobody's business- there's nothing like the shock and surprise of a victim responding in ways the attacker doesn't anticipate.  However, that's for when I'm out of ammo and cannot reload.  

The fact is, I agree with you completely- and I know these things, and that is why I train.  I don't just shoot paper targets.  I am taking martial arts, and once a quarter my wife and I both take a close quarters combat class.  I'm not Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan, but most of getting through a situation is 1. Staying absolutely calm; and 2. Resorting to training you've had.  First week in August, I'm taking my third, rigorous, dynamic tactical shooting course that ends with an 8 hour long competition.  I'll buy the video this year and post it.

That could help.

The fact remains that even veteran police officers often succumb to fight-or-flight in a showdown. Once your heart rate spikes, you're reacting on instinct and conditioning. Your faculties for reason and analysis are heavily diminished. Time dilates. Short term memory is shut down, and hence many police officers won't have any memory of shooting a suspect.

It's possible to overcome, but it does require considerable training and mental conditioning. And even soldiers having undertaken rigorous training will sometimes lock up or panic during their first real combat experience, or come back shell-shocked.

Personally I'd worry that the same conditioning that allows a man to fire bullets into approaching attackers would also allow him to fire bullets into fleeing attackers, and that in the heat of the moment, with his higher reasoning impaired, he might not care about the distinction between the two.

Odds are pretty good that I'll never be in that situation.  I know plenty of people who lived to a ripe old age having never faced a deadly threat- let alone an angry mob.  So, I bank mostly on the fact that it's not going to happen.  Whatever you think of the Martin case, the liberals are correct about one thing:  it's open season down here on thugs- or at least that's what they think.  That's good old fashioned psychological warfare- and I'm good with it.  Maybe people that disagree won't talk openly about it, and it's tough to get interviews with actual thugs to get their thoughts on the topic- but there's at least anecdotal evidence that the word is out.  They get it.  And they aren't looking for trouble.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 17, 2013 13:05:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 15, 2013 22:05:05 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

...learned to hate white people from his college professors..

i learned to hate bigots from my college professors.

You must have gone to college a really long time ago.  Most of my professors WERE bigots.

[Angel!]

Time seriously does seem to slow down with adrenaline.  When I experienced this I actually felt like I had more time to make decisions & react, it was rather weird in retrospect.  And for some reason your mouth goes extremely dry when this happens too.  Nothing like being in a crisis & really wanting a drink of water

I never experienced the short term memory problem, although maybe that is for far worse situations than what I have experienced.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 17, 2013 12:12:50 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Jul 17, 2013 12:09:02 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Well, it's nice to see you finally come around to admitting that Zimmerman's mindset of fear was reasonable.    Good job, sport.  Took you long enough.

The fear is reasonable.  All the dumbass shit he did that led him into a situation where he was afraid is where I have the problem. 

Well it wasn't smart, I agree.  But neither is running down an alley at two a.m. wearing a tube top and a miniskirt.  But here in America, we don't blame the victim no matter how foolish the things they did to end up a victim were.  

[Angel!]

Jul 17, 2013 14:49:45 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 17, 2013 12:12:50 GMT -5 Angel! said:

The fear is reasonable.  All the dumbass shit he did that led him into a situation where he was afraid is where I have the problem. 

Well it wasn't smart, I agree.  But neither is running down an alley at two a.m. wearing a tube top and a miniskirt.  But here in America, we don't blame the victim no matter how foolish the things they did to end up a victim were.  

Oh please, two entirely different situations. 

What Zimmerman was doing was stalking & intimidating, so Martin went on the offense to defend himself before an attack.  You know - attack before they ever manage to hit you - kind of like you have suggested you would do.

Zimmerman became a victim by making someone feel as though they were a victim.  He poked a bear & then was surprised when the bear didn't take kindly to being followed around in the middle of the night.

[mmhmm]

Jul 17, 2013 14:49:04 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Time seriously does seem to slow down with adrenaline.  When I experienced this I actually felt like I had more time to make decisions & react, it was rather weird in retrospect.  And for some reason your mouth goes extremely dry when this happens too.  Nothing like being in a crisis & really wanting a drink of water

I never experienced the short term memory problem, although maybe that is for far worse situations than what I have experienced.

Agreed, Angel.  I did experience the memory loss, as well.  That kind of fear messes with your whole system.  Once "fight or flight" sets in, you're on auto-pilot, so to speak.  Chemicals are running the show.

[mmhmm]

Jul 17, 2013 14:49:45 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 17, 2013 12:12:50 GMT -5 Angel! said:

The fear is reasonable.  All the dumbass shit he did that led him into a situation where he was afraid is where I have the problem. 

Well it wasn't smart, I agree.  But neither is running down an alley at two a.m. wearing a tube top and a miniskirt.  But here in America, we don't blame the victim no matter how foolish the things they did to end up a victim were.  

We don't?  YOU certainly do!

[Sum Dum Gai]

The lack of curiosity, coverage, and discourse on this crime is stunning to me.

What's to cover really?  The guy is clearly a fucking nutjob, a racist, and a murderer, and he was sentenced to life in prison because of it.  I don't think anyone is all that interested in listening to the rantings of a crazy murderer.

[Angel!]

Jul 17, 2013 15:09:29 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

The lack of curiosity, coverage, and discourse on this crime is stunning to me.

What's to cover really?  The guy is clearly a fucking nutjob, a racist, and a murderer, and he was sentenced to life in prison because of it.  I don't think anyone is all that interested in listening to the rantings of a crazy murderer.

I think PBP is mostly concerned some professor made him this way & is going to create more racists willing to kill for the cause.

Personally, I have met enough people that are able to twist someone's words and logic in their own heads in an attempt to support their own views, that I am not really concerned.  Kind of like how PBP thinks this story somehow supports some point he feels is important & most of the rest of us don't seem to get it.  In his head this story says far more than it really does.  Or really my entire conversation with Shooby on this thread could be classified the same way.  She kept countering me with points that had absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying.  Yet somehow it had something to do with what she was hearing me say.

So some nutjob could easily interpret some professors words to mean he should hate white people even if that had nothing to do with the professors actual lecture.  So I don't find it concerning or worth investigating.

[zibazinski]

If you're that immature to be able to be hornswaggled by some whack job who managed to get a job in a college, then you have bigger issues than trying to blame them for your sick tendencies.

[billisonboard]

Jul 17, 2013 14:45:49 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 17, 2013 14:26:17 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

That could help.

The fact remains that even veteran police officers often succumb to fight-or-flight in a showdown. Once your heart rate spikes, you're reacting on instinct and conditioning. Your faculties for reason and analysis are heavily diminished. Time dilates. Short term memory is shut down, and hence many police officers won't have any memory of shooting a suspect.

It's possible to overcome, but it does require considerable training and mental conditioning. And even soldiers having undertaken rigorous training will sometimes lock up or panic during their first real combat experience, or come back shell-shocked.

Personally I'd worry that the same conditioning that allows a man to fire bullets into approaching attackers would also allow him to fire bullets into fleeing attackers, and that in the heat of the moment, with his higher reasoning impaired, he might not care about the distinction between the two.

Odds are pretty good that I'll never be in that situation.  I know plenty of people who lived to a ripe old age having never faced a deadly threat- let alone an angry mob.  So, I bank mostly on the fact that it's not going to happen.  Whatever you think of the Martin case, the liberals are correct about one thing:  it's open season down here on thugs- or at least that's what they think.  That's good old fashioned psychological warfare- and I'm good with it.  Maybe people that disagree won't talk openly about it, and it's tough to get interviews with actual thugs to get their thoughts on the topic- but there's at least anecdotal evidence that the word is out.  They get it.  And they aren't looking for trouble.

Or is thug thought "we need to hit them faster and harder" or maybe "shoot first"?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 17, 2013 15:29:26 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

If you're that immature to be able to be hornswaggled by some whack job who managed to get a job in a college, then you have bigger issues than trying to blame them for your sick tendencies.

Fair point.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jul 17, 2013 15:29:26 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

If you're that immature to be able to be hornswaggled by some whack job who managed to get a job in a college, then you have bigger issues than trying to blame them for your sick tendencies.

Educators have a profound influence on people.

They can't be held legally responsible for the effects of ideas they disseminate, but morally: absolutely.

If a professor expounds "the plague of the white man" from his lectern and a student puts that philosophy into action, the professor isn't without blood on his hands.

I have no idea if it applies in this case, and I will reiterate that I suspect not.

[Sum Dum Gai]

They can't be held legally responsible for the effects of ideas they disseminate, but morally: absolutely.

If a professor expounds "the plague of the white man" from his lectern and a student puts that philosophy into action, the professor isn't without blood on his hands.

I can see that side I guess.  Same thing with radical clerics and the jihad deal.  Legally they may not be doing anything wrong, but morally they clearly are.  In this case though we have one guy who's claiming the professors in question are teaching hatred of white people, and the guy making the claim is a fucking nut.  I'm not sure I'd pay too much attention to it.

If we had 50 students a year complaining about the radical teachings of a nutjob professor and one guy who acted on them, I could see paying some attention to the link.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 17, 2013 14:45:49 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 17, 2013 14:26:17 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

That could help.

The fact remains that even veteran police officers often succumb to fight-or-flight in a showdown. Once your heart rate spikes, you're reacting on instinct and conditioning. Your faculties for reason and analysis are heavily diminished. Time dilates. Short term memory is shut down, and hence many police officers won't have any memory of shooting a suspect.

It's possible to overcome, but it does require considerable training and mental conditioning. And even soldiers having undertaken rigorous training will sometimes lock up or panic during their first real combat experience, or come back shell-shocked.

Personally I'd worry that the same conditioning that allows a man to fire bullets into approaching attackers would also allow him to fire bullets into fleeing attackers, and that in the heat of the moment, with his higher reasoning impaired, he might not care about the distinction between the two.

Odds are pretty good that I'll never be in that situation.  I know plenty of people who lived to a ripe old age having never faced a deadly threat- let alone an angry mob.  So, I bank mostly on the fact that it's not going to happen.  Whatever you think of the Martin case, the liberals are correct about one thing:  it's open season down here on thugs- or at least that's what they think.  That's good old fashioned psychological warfare- and I'm good with it.  Maybe people that disagree won't talk openly about it, and it's tough to get interviews with actual thugs to get their thoughts on the topic- but there's at least anecdotal evidence that the word is out.  They get it.  And they aren't looking for trouble.

Huh?

Either you think the liberals are correct or they are not.  Which is it?

[zibazinski]

They are correct in that there is open season on thugs. You may pick on someone armed, you just never know. Best to not start something in any case.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 17, 2013 16:45:02 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jul 17, 2013 15:29:26 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

If you're that immature to be able to be hornswaggled by some whack job who managed to get a job in a college, then you have bigger issues than trying to blame them for your sick tendencies.

Educators have a profound influence on people.

They can't be held legally responsible for the effects of ideas they disseminate, but morally: absolutely.

If a professor expounds "the plague of the white man" from his lectern and a student puts that philosophy into action, the professor isn't without blood on his hands.

I have no idea if it applies in this case, and I will reiterate that I suspect not.

The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie addressed this.