KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 14, 2013 12:09:27 GMT -5
Okay - I've alluded to this in the Annonymous thread, but I need some help in getting my priorities straight on bills and budgeting. While I do have a thick skin - I just don't want to post this on YM at the moment. Since most of you are on both, I know you can still help.
The problem - at least it seems like to me right now - is that the higher the priority item, the harder it is to make sure it's paid because of timing of the bill. It may have a priority of 3 or 4, but come at the end of the month, after due dates for the priority 8's.
We're definitely at the point that some of our bills aren't being paid because we've over-extended ourselves (our own damn fault for not paying attention and not making changes before it got to this point). Now that we're at this point, I'm overwhelmed with where to start.
DH is trying to help, but isn't helping as much as I need him to be. I truly believe it's not because he doesn't want to help - he's just not able to stay focused on the details.
Okay - I'm going to post my budget in the next post, but for now, here is our priority list (DH and I did discuss this and we both agree these are in the order that is most important to us):
1. Committed to each other. 2. Committed to our kids (4 total - 1 mine, 3 his, they all live with us full time) 3. House 4. Utilities - electric, water and gas at our house 5. Food 6. Gas for work (this is an important distinction in our house) 7. Vehicle insurance 7a. Vehicle maintenance 8. Phone(s) 9. Internet 10. Line of credit (on house) 11. Personal loan 12. Fishing boat 12a. boat insurance 12b. boat maintenance 13. Credit cards (there are 8 right now with balances) 14. Medical bills
You might have noticed one of the budget areas missing is clothing (especially with 4 kids!). DH and I discussed this - we have no extra money - one of our CC bills is Kohl's. Until we are to the point of actually making headway, that's one of the bills we're keeping current so that if the kids (or us) DO need something, we can still get it for them. Not the best decision - but it is where we're at right now.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 14, 2013 12:31:20 GMT -5
Okay - now for the budget. I'm sure I'm going to miss something, so bear with me. These numbers are accurate as of July 1, 2013: Priority 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 5 6 6 7 7 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 9 9 9 9 9 9 9
| Bill/Creditor WF/Mortgage Gas/Atmos Water Electric/TXU Insurance/Vehicles Vehicle Maintenance Phone/AT&T Internet/Clear Boat/EECU Insurance/Boat WF/Line of Credit WF/Personal Loan Credit Card/Sears Credit Card/Kohl's Credit Card/Bass Pro Credit Card/GM Credit Card/Lowe's Credit Card/Chase Credit Card/Home Depot Credit Card/Jared's Medical/Lab Corp 1 Medical/Lab Corp 2 Medical/Lab Corp 3 Medical/Cook Children's Medical Medical/HEB Emergicare Medical/HEB Hospital
Total
| Total Due $48,943.27 $36.37 $224.45 $334.05 $229.19 $900.00 $273.88 $52.06 $43,226.86 $1,699.00 $9,961.21 $14,573.28 $10,956.88 $773.86 $7,448.81 $440.00 $4,212.63 $7,736.73 $135.51 $1,600.92 $3.70 $4.72 $44.96 $20.00 $36.94 $38.86 $1,181.50
$155,089.64
| Due Date 1 3 10 26 1
26 13 4 1-Jan 20 20 2 4 11 14 17 20 21 22
| Minimum Due $851.13 $36.37 $224.45 $334.05 $229.19 $0.00 $273.88 $52.06 $632.23 $142.00 $174.00 $463.31 $161.55 $25.00 $217.00 $0.00 $285.00 $379.00 $25.00 $220.00 $3.70 $4.72 $0.00 $20.00 $0.00 $0.00 $0.00
$4,753.64
| | Total | $155,089.64 | | $4,753.64
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DH's minimum pay: Weekly - $541.00 (monthly average - $2164.00) My minimum pay: Bi-weekly - $1075.00 (monthly average - $2150.00)
Total: $4314.00
As you can see right off the bat - there is a huge issue!
Of course, these are just the minimums we receive (straight 40, no overtime or shift differential), most weeks we work more hours. Neither of us are supposed to have OT or work shift-dif, so I left those out of the calculations for now.
Health insurance is taken out of my paycheck. We both have medical spending accounts (the max) taken out of our paychecks (this year dropped for some reason - only $2k each - we have already used over $2k in medical bills, appointments, and prescriptions).
How have we been surviving? For at least the last 6 months, we've been charging things like gas/groceries on the credit cards.
It isn't pretty, and I know it. Ask any questions you need to - I'll answer to the best of my ability.
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 14, 2013 12:34:03 GMT -5
Just wondering why Medical bills is at the bottom of your list of priorities. Shouldn't that at least be ABOVE 12, 12(a) and 12(b) - fishing boat/boat insurance/boat maintenance?
Unless you fish for a living, or run a charter business, wouldn't those things be considered "luxuries"?
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 14, 2013 12:36:52 GMT -5
Yeah, what's up with the boat? That's crazy expensive.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 14, 2013 12:43:29 GMT -5
SL - I'm in total agreement with you - but that was our compromise as far as priorities with bills. The boat is a luxury that DH is struggling giving up. He loves fishing and is his only "me" time. Not excusing anything - just his perception. The boat is the biggest reason we are in this problem. We bought too much too soon and it's sinking us. I told DH when we first looked at it that we couldn't afford it. The bank said differently and I didn't have the heart to be the bad guy and tell him no even though I suspected we'd be in this spot at some point.
The medical bills are currently at the end simply because of our medical spending accounts. I've had medical issues this year that have caused them to go higher than normal. I am paying on those as I have $10-20 to send to them. However, once the end of the year gets here, if there is any money left in the MS accounts, those will be paid off from lowest to highest. I work at the hospital where the last bill is from, I can set up payments with them for them to take out a certain amount per paycheck. I haven't set that up just yet, but am not opposed to that. I just do not want to hamper our ability to buy food with making a decision like that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 12:45:59 GMT -5
Are water and electric and insurance and phone set monthly at that much?
775$ a month for the boat... What is it worth?
What is the house worth?
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 14, 2013 12:49:37 GMT -5
We had a totally different boat that was much more affordable. DH wanted to upgrade and when the bank said yes, he was over the moon. In comparison, it was like going from a Ford Fiesta to a Cadillac Escalade. 14' aluminum Basstracker - $12,000 total at $250 per month to 22' fiberglass Legend with all the bells and whistles - $45,000 total at $650 per month Insurance jumped from $250 per year to $1700 per year. Gas went from 10 gallon tank to 40 gallon tank. All around, more expensive! At least he didn't have to upgrade vehicles to tow it!
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Jul 14, 2013 12:53:40 GMT -5
Could you see if electric and gas could be put on a budget plan (if not on one already)? That would even the bills out over the year, lower the monthly payment and give you some flex room every month. That's how I have ours and it works out great!
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 14, 2013 12:56:31 GMT -5
Oped - Water is actually double what it usually is - thanks for reminding me about that - we somehow missed making June's payment (usually we don't), so it was double to make up. Our water is normally around $125 per month (or lower).
Electric is high now because of the summer months, kids are home and our house is not energy efficient. We are not on average billing. Our highest summer bill has been around $350.00, but in the cooler months, it runs $100 or less. On the flip side, in the winter, our gas bill goes up, but I don't think I've seen one higher than $150 (gas is cheaper here than electric).
DH look at a Boat Trader website. A boat that was comparable to his in a different state was listed for $41k, but was a year newer. Based on DH upgrades (electronics and such), we would try to sell for what we owe, but I'm expecting it to bring in less. I'd be happy with $35k!
DH hasn't even taken pictures yet to post it for sale, but he has told the people in his club. One guy acted like he might be interested, but hasn't gotten back with DH yet (but it's only been a week or two at most).
House is probably worth around $75-80k.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 14, 2013 12:58:21 GMT -5
If that's your net pay, then it seems pretty comparable to my own family's income. I'm sorry, but that boat payment+insurance seems like a noose around your neck. I don't see how you can afford all your needs with that huge want taking up so much of your resources. My brother is a fishing nut, and he buys used boats in the $10-20,000 range. His new one isn't huge, but is no Ford Fiesta either, and it works just fine. Is there some middle ground you can compromise on with this boat?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 14, 2013 12:59:56 GMT -5
The obvious answer is get rid of the boat. That's the logical choice, the common sense choice, the sane choice.
All that being said - I get it. I get how something that sooo doesn't make sense can provide you with something that you so need.
So, think of a boat as a therapy, a very expensive, but therapy for your husband and may be you can keep it.
I would love to be more helpful, but that's all I got for now, since my opinion usually either cut out the biggest expense or increase income. All those - we won't eat out and turn off cable things don't make a lot of sense to me in the long run.
good luck to you!!
Lena
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 14, 2013 13:00:07 GMT -5
I've been resistant to going on average billing - I'm always afraid they're not going to lower the bill until a year later if we use less. I know it averages things out, but....just haven't done it.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 14, 2013 13:13:15 GMT -5
If that's your net pay, then it seems pretty comparable to my own family's income. I'm sorry, but that boat payment+insurance seems like a noose around your neck. I don't see how you can afford all your needs with that huge want taking up so much of your resources. My brother is a fishing nut, and he buys used boats in the $10-20,000 range. His new one isn't huge, but is no Ford Fiesta either, and it works just fine. Is there some middle ground you can compromise on with this boat? It is a noose (or anchor if you'd prefer!) and it is dragging us down. It has been snowballing on us since we got it over 2 years ago. The first several months didn't seem to have any problems, then the pinch started getting more and more severe. Then he was let go from his job 6 months after getting the boat and took a $3 pay cut, plus lost the good insurance we were on. I took a job that had a $3 pay increase, but had to take over insurance at a higher rate than what DH was paying. So, our net income didn't go up and I'm thinking actually went down a little, but I don't have those numbers, just a gut feeling. I don't know what middle ground we could find at the moment regarding the boat. Any suggestions? Warning - anything I come back with will only be the response I may have already gotten from DH - I wish we had never got the boat in the first place! I've asked that he only fish local tournaments within a certain mileage distance. He was okay with that....until the club announced their next tournament at a lake 3 hours away - he pouted about that over text, but we haven't actually talked about it - I ignored the text.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 13:14:17 GMT -5
I think it's the boat that has to go too. It takes $800 a month even before gassing it up. That's about 19% of your take home pay. Whether or not you can make your budget come in under your income it has to be sold so you have space for savings, clothing, and family activities. The other big discretionary bill are your phones/internet. Can you get them cheaper.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 13:16:48 GMT -5
Sell the thing and buy something cheaper - 5-10k range. That would be my compromise. Because my knee jerk reaction would be tell my DH he's a selfish a-hole for putting us in debt and spending 1/5 of our income on his hobby when there are six people in the household. That he's lucky I'm willing to have a boat at all.
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 14, 2013 13:17:38 GMT -5
That toy of your DH's is eating you out of house and home - literally.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 14, 2013 13:23:33 GMT -5
The obvious answer is get rid of the boat. That's the logical choice, the common sense choice, the sane choice. All that being said - I get it. I get how something that sooo doesn't make sense can provide you with something that you so need. So, think of a boat as a therapy, a very expensive, but therapy for your husband and may be you can keep it. I would love to be more helpful, but that's all I got for now, since my opinion usually either cut out the biggest expense or increase income. All those - we won't eat out and turn off cable things don't make a lot of sense to me in the long run. good luck to you!! Lena Thank you! Yes, you're right, DH looks at his boat/fishing as therapy. He goes stir crazy if he hasn't fished in a while (think 2-3 weeks). He's the only guy I know who gets sunburned in winter from being out on the water! The boat is never parked for more than a month without seeing some type of water action (usually a maintenance issue if it's parked that long), so it does get used on a regular basis. DH is looking to increase his income - he has an interview with another company this week. I'm not sure it's going to be enough to make a difference, but you never know....they could surprise us!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 13:24:42 GMT -5
When I add up all your bills, not including the boat, it comes out to around $3900 a month. That doesn't include food or clothing. So basically even including the basics (your housing bills, the medical and credit car debt, gas, clothing, food) you guys would be coming up short each month. The boat just puts you guys completely over the top. My guesstimate would be that you are spending around 1.5k a month more than you earn. Item 12 on the list is in complete opposition to 1 & 2. Can you roll any of your credit card debt into your mortgage? Have you thought about BK? How much extra can you earn working more shifts? I'm sorry. This must be so tough right now.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 14, 2013 13:34:11 GMT -5
I think it's the boat that has to go too. It takes $800 a month even before gassing it up. That's about 19% of your take home pay. Whether or not you can make your budget come in under your income it has to be sold so you have space for savings, clothing, and family activities. The other big discretionary bill are your phones/internet. Can you get them cheaper. I realized I left out our retirement savings on the budget list (easy to do since it's auto-deduct from paycheck). Right now, DH is only contributing what his company automatically deducts (they do not give the employees an option - it's a mandatory deduction of somewhere around 4-6%, DH can't remember). He didn't know how long he'd be at this job over a year ago, so hasn't increased the savings either. I was saving 11% in 401K and another 4% in company Roth, but have backed down the 401k to 6% (which is also company match) just last week. Both accounts are automatically set to increase by 1% every year in July. I haven't received a pay check since the new adjustment, but it should be at least $100 per paycheck extra based on my calculations. Our phone bill has 5 phones on it - my cell, cells for 3 teenagers, and the house phone (still have because the youngest doesn't have a phone yet). We also have the parental controls on all of the phones - so we can adjust how many texts they can send out and limit when they can be on the phone (really nice to have the phones turn off at bedtime so the kids actually have a reason to GO TO SLEEP!). We have AT&T that does all of this - any other companies out there that will do the same thing? We haven't look around too much because of the convenience of calling extended family members with the same company. Internet is the cheapest we can get in the area without bundling phone, cable and internet (we don't have cable currently).
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 14, 2013 13:49:48 GMT -5
When I add up all your bills, not including the boat, it comes out to around $3900 a month. That doesn't include food or clothing. So basically even including the basics (your housing bills, the medical and credit car debt, gas, clothing, food) you guys would be coming up short each month. The boat just puts you guys completely over the top. My guesstimate would be that you are spending around 1.5k a month more than you earn. Item 12 on the list is in complete opposition to 1 & 2. Can you roll any of your credit card debt into your mortgage? Have you thought about BK? How much extra can you earn working more shifts? I'm sorry. This must be so tough right now. I realize that 12 is in opposition of 1 & 2, but just getting DH to understand how badly the boat is sinking us has been difficult. I approached our initial priority conversation in this way because otherwise DH would view it as being attacked and I didn't want him to see it that way. Us being in this position is every bit as much my fault as it is his. I pay the bills and on weeks where there wasn't enough, I'd use the CC's to buy food and gas to get by. The problem is, the only person having to actually give up anything is DH - I'm not giving anything up by us selling the boat. I'm not really giving anything up to eat at home. That's not fair to him and I wish there was a way I could equally suffer. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing anything in our budget to accomplish that. I offered to sell all of my jewelry to help (maybe around $5k worth of items), but DH doesn't want me to do that (I may do it anyway - but as DH bought me everything, he'll probably get offended). We can refinance and may still. We refinance more than 2 years ago to a lower % rate and to a 10 year loan - our payments stayed the same. So we only have around 7-8 years left to pay on our house. I'm okay with filing BK - but like I told DH, they're going to make us sell the boat anyway, why not sell it now on our terms? Or am I misunderstanding BK?
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 14, 2013 13:59:08 GMT -5
Uhhh... I don't see an $800 item in the budget for your fun. In fact I don't see anything in the budget for your fun money. You're already suffering enough if you're not getting any fun money.
Realistically, your DH keeping the boat is making the rest of the family suffer. If they're not feeling it now they're going to soon as the bills continue to pile up and you can't buy the kids clothes or food or anything else.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 13:59:25 GMT -5
I agree that it's both your fault. I disagree that only your DH is having to give up anything. You and your kids have given up activities, financial security, the ability to buy clothes. I'm sure that being the one to deal with the finances has put you under an amazing amount of stress. I think you are suffering.
Do you have a data plan that you can turn off? Reduce your minutes? Are you locked into contracts or can you switch to pay as you go?
I got the impression that your DH wasn't serious about selling the boat. Mentioning to a few people is not the same as deep-cleaning and listing it.
I see about 60k in credit card debt. How long did it take for you guys to accumulate it? What are the interest rates? I think you guys could pay it off but it would be pretty tight. I'm not sure what type of BK you'd qualify for but it may be better for you in the long run if you can direct that money towards savings and retirement. How far are you guys from retiring and what do you have saved?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 14, 2013 14:06:40 GMT -5
Sheesh, KaraBoo. You are in a pickle, hon. I'm so sorry! That said, I've got to go along with several others. I'd give that boat the heave-ho in a helluva hurry! It needs to be sold ASAP! You guys just don't have the income to afford something like that quite yet. The time will probably come when you can, but this isn't it. DH needs to wake up and smell the roses. He's not the son of Ari Onassis, so self-control is an absolute necessity when it comes to money. The children's needs and the needs of the family as a whole must be put first. He can get "me time" sitting on the bank of a lake, or river, or going fishing with male friends (maybe one of them has a boat). It's not about being "fair" to DH. DH got a boat he couldn't afford, so he's only "giving up" something he never should have gotten in the first place. Now, it's time to recognize he couldn't afford it and cut the line.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 14:17:31 GMT -5
I'm with the others. He is the only one giving anything up because heis the one who bought a toy worth half your house.
There are ways to fish that don't cost 800$+ a month.
Sell the boat. Consider a longer mortgage to roll up some of the debt IF you can realistically not run up the debt again.
Look for ways to reduce monthly obligations as others have suggested.
They will take the boat in BK, think that's a good way to pursue it. If he wont do what needs to be done to sell it, I'd my sure I'm paying for all outsold needs, I clouding gas, groceries and clothes! Before I made that boat payment. Let him see here is just no money or it...
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jul 14, 2013 14:17:57 GMT -5
I could give you my financial horror story - about late DH's fancy Ford F250 with all the bells & whistles that he just "had" to have - even though we already each had a (paid-for) car of our own. We didn't NEED a fancy truck, and it wasn't in our budget. Let me just say that set of wheels (among other of his so-called needs) all but destroyed our financial budget (and was also pretty much the beginning of the end for our marriage too). And we didn't have any kids to support or worry about.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 14, 2013 14:20:55 GMT -5
DH isn't serious about selling his boat - he says he is, but the actions speak louder than words. Maybe I'm enabling him as well? I wouldn't doubt it. I've been thinking about that since I helped my cousin get in alcohol rehab last week.
DH is an all or nothing type person. When we talked about selling the boat, he wanted to take everything out of it and take pictures. He has a lot of gear! I commented to him to clean up the boat, but leave the gear in it to show on the pictures how much "stuff" it can really hold (just put a disclaimer on it that the gear is not included except for what was specifically mentioned). I also said that if he totally cleaned out the boat before it was sold, the gear would just sit in our entry way where it would stare at him every day and make him more depressed. He needed to leave the gear in the boat for now (at least, that was my thought at the time).
Now I'm wondering if I'm just giving him false hope that something will give? Not my intention, but I know how DH will pout when the boat actually sells - I don't know if I'm ready for that process to start ahead of time?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 14:24:14 GMT -5
I think you are enabling if you put groceries and clothes on the cc and pay the boat payment. It makes him think you can afford it.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jul 14, 2013 14:24:47 GMT -5
Sell. The. Boat.
It is jeopardizing the wellbeing of the entire family. What man, what father, what husband puts his selfish wants ahead of his family and "pouts" about doing the right thing? Seriously, pouts? He gets to keep the boat, even though that means you cannot afford clothes for your kids?
Without the boat, there will be less stress and probably less need for "therapy." So what if he has to sacrifice his toy. It's a toy, not a life-support device. It is ruining you. When you're back on your feet, he can buy another toy. For now, you cannot afford it.
Yes, I'm mean. But you really, really need to sell the boat.
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Jul 14, 2013 14:31:00 GMT -5
We've still got a ways to go for retirement - he's in his early 40's and I'm 38. I don't know what's in DH's retirement accounts, but mine currently has over $100k in it. I think we're on track retirement wise at the moment.
The CC debt has snowballed, I know we had some when we got the boat, but I can't remember how much at the time. I can't honestly answer that question without some major detective work at the moment. I'll see what I can figure out.
I am thinking that what needs to happen for anything to actually happen is us filing for BK. I haven't pushed that just yet because the "come to Jesus" talk with DH just happened within the last couple of weeks. We've had a couple of talks so far, but nothing concrete has happened so far except that a couple of bills haven't been paid to get us to a starting point of our "new normal".
I'm thinking that the BK talk will happen within the next three months as more and more bills actually aren't paid as there is no more money in savings and no more places to "rob Peter to pay Paul" left.
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NancysSummerSip
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 19:19:42 GMT -5
Posts: 36,692
Today's Mood: Full of piss and vinegar
Favorite Drink: Anything with ice
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jul 14, 2013 14:31:06 GMT -5
Sell. The. Boat. It is jeopardizing the wellbeing of the entire family. What man, what father, what husband puts his selfish wants ahead of his family and "pouts" about doing the right thing? Seriously, pouts? He gets to keep the boat, even though that means you cannot afford clothes for your kids? Without the boat, there will be less stress and probably less need for "therapy." So what if he has to sacrifice his toy. It's a toy, not a life-support device. It is ruining you. When you're back on your feet, he can buy another toy. For now, you cannot afford it. Yes, I'm mean. But you really, really need to sell the boat. Well said. We were in the process of re-flooring four rooms in our house when we realized our roof had to be replaced NOW. The money was there for both projects, but emptying our emergency fund to do them was not something we could live with. Two rooms can wait; the roof over our heads cannot. Adults in a family unit make decisions based on the good of the family unit, not based on what they want only for themselves. That's part of the grown-up life. Crap happens, you get through it (and pay for it) and get new toys later. DH can go fishing on another friend's boat, or find a rent-a-boat. Your food, your kids' well-being, your shelter, cannot wait.
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